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Author Topic: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge  (Read 2153 times)

Morn

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I already posted in the tech-thread, but was redirected... I already got the advice to get  rather Aftermaths than Painkillers, but what's your opinion?  So, here's my (slightly edited) former post:

I'm thinking about replacing the Gibson 490t and 490r in my Gibson SG special with a pair of BKP Painkillers. In addition, I'd try to equip this guitar with a 7-string-set of strings, ignoring the high e-string, because I'd like to go really low (like g#) and don't really have the money to afford a 7-string.

What do you think? Does the Painkiller / Aftermath match with my SG? I'm sure, some folks here did this before... ;)

I know, the result could be just some mess of sound... For using a thicker gauge doesn't lenghten the scale of the neck... But if somebody has made good experiences with Painkiller / Aftermath combined with an SG in general, I think it's worth a try. If it doesn't work out the way I imagine when I'm alone in the dark, I'd put the BKPs in my ESP LTD H-351NT, for it's equipped with emgs, which (imo) sound too compressed and artifical, sometimes. I'd forget about trying the "fake seven string thing" then, too.^^

So, what do you think?

Dave Sloven

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 11:02:53 PM »
As I said in the other thread, I have a friend who tunes an SG to B without any issues other than using a heavier gauge.  I think he uses EMG pickups.  I've heard him play this thing and it sounded good, and he's recorded metal albums with Truth Corroded using it, so I think we can say that it works.  The question is probably which one of the BKPs would give you a similar result.

I'm going to guess that it will be Aftermaths, simply because the mids on the Painkiller might be too pronounced for the SG body (making an Aftermath sound more like a Painkiller anyway if compared to the same pickups in say an Explorer).  Tim has recommended Aftermaths for an SG before.

Anyway you should get a lot more answers here.

There was a post from xtmomix on this, but I don't think he/she stayed around to tell us what was actually installed (if anything) and how it worked out.

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25405.0

I put a Nailbomb in mine and I am happy with it.  It has a more punkish sound (think: Poison Idea) than the aftermath though, and it seems like you are going for something more 'contemporary'.  That said, I think that the sound of the Nailbomb in an SG is quite different from in some other applications.

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30083.0



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mongey

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2013, 02:31:10 AM »
G# standard is pretty damn low for a SG .

Not sure you'll have enough room to intonate the string without modding it or if you can even modify that style bridge enough to get that low on 24.75 scale


also on gibson scale to get to G# your gonna have to use a .074 at least  to get any kind of usable tension . you'll probably also need to drill out the tuning peg at least to fit the string through

 yeah meshuggah play in F but they have 30 inch guiatrs
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Dave Sloven

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 02:48:25 AM »
Yeah I think that anywhere below B you are probably going to have to install an aftermarket bridge assembly.  To be honest I'm not sure why anyone would choose an SG to play stuff like Portal on.  There are a lot of choices out there that would be better, especially something with a longer scale, probably with a trem-locked Floyd Rose type bridge assembly.  To me it's a bit like asking Howlin' Wolf to sing like Ross Dolan from Immolation: with practice he could probably have done it, but personally I'd rather hear each of them doing their own thing!

I'm old enough to remember jaws dropping when Bolt Thrower and Napalm Death first went to B tuning ... part of the issue was that they were using too light strings (have a listen to 'Realm of Chaos' for example) ... not really sure why bands like Portal tune down to G# and G ... different strokes I guess.
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Kiichi

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 11:01:14 AM »
Another issue is that the short scale results in a lot of mids whereas a longer a scale adds highs and lows. Also handles lower tunings better.
Main problem now is that the AM is full of centermids. Those add up and can be a problem too.
The AM I got did not work that well in my LP type, although it is an awesome PU. Now that LP has P90s, which naturally have more high and low end than HBs and it works. For the AM I need a guitar with at least a fender scale length I feel.
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Dave Sloven

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 02:11:10 PM »
I tend to think that you *could* get some great tones out of an Aftermath for an SG if you like the general sort of sound that pickup gives, but that you really would want to treat C# as your absolute lowest tuning if you want to keep those characteristics.  Below that the problems of downtuning an SG would start to kick in and detract from the precision and dryness of the pickup. A fatter, less dry pickup like an A-pig could probably get away with it, and possibly an A-bomb too, but any pickup that is has 'tightness' as its main characteristic is not going to sound its best with that short scale.

It's also worth remembering that the SG has somewhat of a flimsy neck.  If I take all of the strings off mine - for example, to change pickups - I have to adjust the truss rod each time.  You have to change strings one at a time to avoid that, and even then it might take a little bit of tweaking.  Put heavy gauge strings on it and it would only get worse. You would probably have to run a lighter string than is optimal for those pickups.

In general I'd say that the AM could work well as long as you don't detune very far.

I'm glad that I got A-pigs for my Explorer, as if I do want to change them into a detuned SG later I think they might be the only BKPs that really work for the sounds I want.  Tony Iommi doesn't go below C# and I think his scale might be longer than standard on his custom shop SGs.  I've heard SGs tuned down to C or even B but that has been in doom bands like Electric Wizard.
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Dave Sloven

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 12:02:44 AM »
For a different opinion:

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86006

People on there seem to think that an SG takes low tuning very well, although you might want to think about choices of bridge etc.

As far as the pickup goes, one thing to think about is to approach BKP about what you want to do, and maybe they can set up an Aftermath more like a 7 string version with the high E missing than one optimised for standard 6 string tuning?  Given that Aftermaths are used on 7 strings you would think that you might be able to tune a 7 to three semi-tones down from B with no real issues.

As with most of these pickup questions the best answer is 'email Tim'.  I don't know which email gets him though.

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Kiichi

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 12:26:34 AM »
As with most of these pickup questions the best answer is 'email Tim'.  I don't know which email gets him though.
If you donīt get Tim you get Ben who is more than capable. Plus if he doesnīt know something with confidence he just ask Tim I am sure.
Either way you get very good advice.

The BKP team is compressed knowledge, but sometimes they are constained by time giving advice. They will write up quick but thought out answers and reply to possible follow up questions until you find what you need. They work time efficient and hard.
The forum is a different thing. Here you get a lot more time and longer more detailed replies and the knowledge base is based on a lot of collective experience.
While the BKP guys also know a lot about the application of the PUs the forum always has a bit of the upper hand (if we want).
Bottom line: BKP really, really know their range inside and out. The forum knows a lot too, but they only got the upper hand on real live application and experiences, which can help a lot with unsual things too.

Effectivly you get the best help consulting both =)
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Dave Sloven

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 12:35:03 AM »
I just meant that maybe there's a custom fiddle that they can do with the magnets or winding on the Aftermath for this set to make it more like a truncated seven string pup rather than a six string one.  That would probably be something that only Tim or Ben could say for sure.

Of course it's a good idea to sound things out, but I'm guessing that BKP also get a lot of feedback from customers regarding what works, as well as their own testing
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Morn

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 07:56:18 AM »
There are a lot of choices out there that would be better, especially something with a longer scale, probably with a trem-locked Floyd Rose type bridge assembly. 


Yeah, I know that an sg usually wouldn't be first choise for this stuff, but as i mentioned i can't afford a seven string atm. But in addition, i would really like to be able to use my sg, just because it is my sg. ;) i bought the esp ltd a while ago because i thought the slim neck and the pick ups would fit the technical stuff better. I haven't played the sg a lot since. But when i tried to play the same stuff on my sg, it was like meeting an old friend you didn't even know you've missed. So I began thinking of modifying this guitar rather than buying a new one, in spite of the money-issue.

Thanks for the replies!

ericsabbath

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Re: Painkiller / Aftermath on SG special and thicker stringgauge
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 09:16:51 AM »
well... you could try the strings/tuning first and see if the guitar works reasonably fine in such a low tuning
any bkp from that point should be an improvement over the 490t
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