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Author Topic: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?  (Read 7806 times)

08sg

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2013, 02:40:58 AM »
Thanks Eric, I take what in what you say, and trust your opinions. The SD has midrange, LOTS, and low mids too, they're just not defined enough. That pickup is EQ'd a certain, and it may not be the best pickup for this guitar.

We tried something earlier today at my bro in law's place. We held his dean under the headstock, and I tapped the body towards the tail end with my knuckled a few times, and listened really closely. His wood is higher pitched, or tuned than my thinner SG. His has this high tenor kind of "PUNK" tone.

If you tap my SG body, it's more BLONK - ha, but that's what it sounds like. It's more dulled, or rounded sounding. I'm sure that has an effect on how the strings react with the body. So maybe then, I need a brighter, spanky, midrangey pickup.

And Eric, to date, my SG has:

500K tone and volume pots
Faber tone lock bridge (helped immensely with the detail, sustain, everything)
A bone nut,
Frets leveled for any high spots,
and of course the SD pickup in the bridge.

All these things definitely helped the guitar come alive.

Eric, you do own the Riff Raff correct? If you do... is it reminiscent of anything you've heard before, like the 57 classic plus? Is it hotter than that?
Snarlier than that? — Again, much thanks guys.

Dave Sloven

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2013, 03:25:09 AM »
That's pretty much what SGs sound like.  Brighter than your usual mahogany guitar though, for sure.  If you want a bright SG I'd say check out the discontinued all-maple 'raw power' SGs ... People seem to hate them though for not sounding like a real SG.

Other than that definitely change out the pots.  Standard volume pots are 300K.

If you want punk from an SG then I can say from experience that the A-bomb in the pickup for you.  I have one in my SG (which has the same 'blonk' wood you mention) and an A-bomb and it has a very punk tone with the pickup height set right and 500K CTS pots.  I'm thinking here of Poison Idea etc.  You can get others by playing with the volume pot.  For a more mellow version of the same thing maybe a Rebel Yell is the pickup to go for?  All I know is that the SG has a very definite tonal quality that has a big effect on any pickup you put in there.  Take a pickup out of another kind of guitar and place it in an SG and it will sound different due to the very specific combination of factors.

The A-bomb has very raucous mids in an SG.  I tend to think a Painkiller would be OTT.  I haven't heard one in an SG and I haven't read any reviews of that combination.

I have the Cold Sweat neck which works well but a RY or NB neck would also work well.  A Cold Sweat set would give you a bit of a mid scoop.  Depends on where you want the mids I guess.

My next SG will have alnico Warpigs but that will be for a different application (downtuned metal).



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ericsabbath

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2013, 03:47:10 AM »
Eric, you do own the Riff Raff correct? If you do... is it reminiscent of anything you've heard before, like the 57 classic plus? Is it hotter than that?
Snarlier than that? — Again, much thanks guys.
I do own a riff raff, but mine has a  custom 4mm thick alnico 5 magnet instead of the usual 3mm, so it's a little spankier and bassier than a regular one, but still the same overall tone, according to Tim (he suggested the bigger magnet cause I was asking for something with a little mor output)
I didn't try it in an SG, though (actually, I did, but the headstock snapped off in 5 minutes  :lol:)
the riff raff isn't noticeably hotter than a 57 classic, but definitely a lot spankier
the 57 classic plus is alnico 2 and a little more scooped, so it tends to compress the notes and sounds overall darker
compared to 80's gibson tim shaws, it sounds punchier and brighter as well
compared to my 70's dimarzio pafs, it sounds fuller, less fizzy and a little tighter
compared to a duncan '59, it sounds punchier and definitely middier, but not really middy like the charts show
compared to the mule, it sounds just a little brighter and more defined, without the subtle compression of the mule
the only vintage voiced pickup that I have experience that sounds spankier than the riff raff is the VHII
the VHII is more scooped, but has a very powerful picking attack for an alnico pickup and a quite big and thumpy low end response

the painkiller definitely fits better you description of a snarly mean and honky pickup

have you considered getting a maple capped les paul?
SGs do have this midrange based more narrow tone, which means they usually have higher low frequency starting point and a lower treble frequency range as well
this usually results in a thinner and mellower tone compared to an even voiced les paul with 500k pots and pickups with wide frequency ranges like the riff raff or nailbomb
I've had lots of sgs and les pauls and I always had that impression with all of them
but if SGs are truly your thing, I'm pretty sure you can work things out without much trouble

Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

08sg

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2013, 05:46:24 AM »
Agent Orange:
Quote
I'm thinking here of Poison Idea etc.

Not at all, I hate that band, and that sound. I'm not into the 80's hair metal sound at all. A friend of mine has several guitars with JB's and they have this 80's Van Halen meets Poison kind of "CHUNK, KUNK" sound. I always go back to the SD for reference because it is VERY classic sounding, depending on how much or little gain you use. You can turn up the volume to half on your amp, and just use the gain around 2-3, and it's very AC/DC esque, and you wouldn't think so, but it can get close-ish, it's just way too much compression, and that lack of detail and spank - a bit too thick.

But some of AC/DC's  older tunes have a TON of midrange in the sound. I always use this as a great tonal reference… Listen to the intro riff and trailing A chord at the beginning of Shoot To Thrill off the Back In Black album. Hear that A chord?… It sounds like a cat's YOWL. And that's how I describe that sound… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIAqSOtDOj4 — PEEOWW....

One more tonal reference, because it's obviously in the AC/DC ballpark. Listen to the intro of these chords.. LOTS of midrange, snarling, growling, yet spanky.
Airbourne — Heartbreaker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7qq3VCveTM I'd like to find the pickup that makes that sound. I don't love their music, but they have a great guitar sound on that album.

Eric: In reference to the Riff Raff…

Quote
I do own a riff raff, but mine has a  custom 4mm thick alnico 5 magnet instead of the usual 3mm, so it's a little spankier and bassier than a regular one, but still the same overall tone.
— What do you think would happen if I replaced my SD with an Alnico 5 magnet instead?

Quote
compared to my 70's dimarzio pafs, it sounds fuller, less fizzy and a little tighter
- are you talking about Super Distortions in this mix?

I like lots of mids, but not to the point of the Steve Vai sound. I just find certain classic rock albums have lots of mids in the guitar tone. AC/DC always seems to come to mind, probably because they have written a lot of songs in A!

Philly Q

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2013, 08:40:00 AM »
Agent Orange:
Quote
I'm thinking here of Poison Idea etc.

Not at all, I hate that band, and that sound. I'm not into the 80's hair metal sound at all. A friend of mine has several guitars with JB's and they have this 80's Van Halen meets Poison kind of "CHUNK, KUNK" sound.


Poison:





Poison Idea:

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Dave Sloven

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2013, 08:46:21 AM »
Tom 'Pig Champion' Roberts R.I.P.

Poison vs Poison Idea :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFzk1eh9UDE
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 09:00:50 AM by Agent Orange »
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ericsabbath

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2013, 09:09:43 AM »
was talking about the riff raff compared to the old dimarzio paf model (7.5k, short alnico 5 magnet... basically a gibson t-top clone)

the middy tones from the most of the classic stuff come from the combination of middy marshalls with very middy celestion speakers, middy microphones and middy gibson guitars, but not really middy pickups
the middy hot rodded pickup thing started with the super distortion and the JB on late 70's (and then the gibson dirty fingers, duncan distortion, duncan invader, dimarzio x2n, emg 81...)

airbourne guys use mostly duncan 59's and screamin demon, which are quite scooped
I'm not sure about the white explorer, though
angus pickups aren't middy either, except for that signature gibson model that he used for a brief period

I don't think a super distortion would sound any better with alnico 5

the airbourne sound doesn't seem difficult to get from a jcm 2000 or something
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Brow

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2013, 12:45:07 PM »
I have a Riff Raff in the bridge of a Vee, not too dissimilar tonally from an SG imo, and with the right amp it will definitely do what you're looking for going by the examples you gave of Airborne and AC/DC.
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08sg

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Re: BKP's output rating in MILLIVOLTS?
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2013, 01:04:08 PM »
Thanks again guys. This does help a bit. Brow, regarding your Riff Raff, you know how I described that YOWL tone - it's most prominent when you play an A chord through a Marshall with EL-34's and YES, midrangey speakers like greenbacks definitely help - I gotta get me some mid range sounding speakers..

But, for the Airbourne "Heartbreaker" rhythm sound... it also has that POWNK kind of spany midrange thing, so does shoot to thrill, only not quite as tight sounding on shoot to thrill.

And if it's the Riff Raff that's voiced like that, then that's what I'll order.

Last one for the day... same YOWL tone, again on the A chord after the e, g, d then that snarling midrangey A chord. DAMN that sounds so good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LfcLE6hLno it's that KEEOWNG tone of the A chord I'm so fascinated by.