Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: HJM on November 15, 2005, 08:39:54 PM

Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 15, 2005, 08:39:54 PM
Anybody seen the Seymour Duncan interview in December Guitar Buyer? No humbuckers were ever scatterwound apparently...
Title: Re: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: jt on November 15, 2005, 11:26:51 PM
Quote from: HJM
Anybody seen the Seymour Duncan interview in December Guitar Buyer? No humbuckers were ever scatterwound apparently...



 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

so it`s just a figment of our imagination then !!

 :D  8)
Title: Re: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: big steve on November 15, 2005, 11:49:51 PM
Quote from: HJM
No humbuckers were ever scatterwound apparently...


this sentence reads as utter nonsense to the general public...
Title: Re: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on November 15, 2005, 11:56:27 PM
Quote from: big steve
Quote from: HJM
No humbuckers were ever scatterwound apparently...


this sentence reads as utter nonsense to the general public...

Let me see if I can help you, then :)

From what I have gleaned, SD has always used a machine to wind his pickups. In other words, they are not handwound, as Bare Knuckle pups are.

This is really PhilKing's line of country, tho ...
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 16, 2005, 07:21:19 AM
I believe that the first PAFs were handwound in the 50s, until Gibson was able to afford to buy the automatic shut off machines which were used in the 60s.  Strikes me that Seymour has spent a fortune on an original Gibson winder and doesn't want people to know it was used for the weaker sounding 60s PAFs!
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Elliot on November 16, 2005, 09:42:47 AM
Can anyone confirm the story that Leo Fender modified record players and sewing machines to act as winders in the 50s?  Or is that internet mythology?
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: chrisola on November 16, 2005, 09:56:52 AM
apparantly, SD used vietnamese children to wind them with their teeth, until Nike offered the kids more money to make cr@ppy trainers instead..
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 16, 2005, 10:40:13 AM
Quote from: chrisola
apparantly, SD used vietnamese children to wind them with their teeth, until Nike offered the kids more money to make cr@ppy trainers instead..


Careful...... :lol:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Elliot on November 16, 2005, 10:50:59 AM
now that's only Duncan Designed
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Ratrod on November 16, 2005, 10:57:09 AM
At the moment, I could care less about what Duncan does or says. I've got BKP's and I'm not planning to buy any Duncan pups.
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 16, 2005, 11:34:24 AM
meh, even before i'd tried handwound pickups, i never liked duncans...

and now i've tried swinesheads, i hate duncans

i can only wonder how great bk's are  :cry:

i will get a set of bk's soon!  :twisted:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on November 16, 2005, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: Elliot
Can anyone confirm the story that Leo Fender modified record players and sewing machines to act as winders in the 50s?  Or is that internet mythology?

Sewing machines, yes. It's a documented fact.
Turntables, I've never heard of.
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Ratrod on November 16, 2005, 01:35:41 PM
Quote from: TwilightOdyssey
Quote from: Elliot
Can anyone confirm the story that Leo Fender modified record players and sewing machines to act as winders in the 50s?  Or is that internet mythology?

Sewing machines, yes. It's a documented fact.
Turntables, I've never heard of.


Imagine turnig a bicycle into a pickup winding machine.  PDT_049  :idiot2:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 16, 2005, 02:09:28 PM
78rpm would take a while to wind a pickup!!
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: chrisola on November 16, 2005, 02:09:41 PM
is it me or is the forum an hour ahead of the actual time??

either that or i've been at work an hour longer than i thought, or am seeing future posts before they happen :p
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 16, 2005, 02:11:11 PM
There's an option in profile to set timezone I think!
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Brow on November 16, 2005, 03:17:53 PM
Seymour Duncan used an old record player to re-wind his own pickups back in the day.

I don't think he ever manufactured pickups using that method tho, as like HJM said, it'd take ages to wind 1 pickup  :)
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 16, 2005, 03:20:38 PM
well, yeah- a pickup has what- 5 or 6 thousand winds?

5000/78

= 64minutes, or just over an hour...  :twisted:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Ratrod on November 16, 2005, 04:49:45 PM
Quote from: chrisola
is it me or is the forum an hour ahead of the actual time??

either that or i've been at work an hour longer than i thought, or am seeing future posts before they happen :p


All times GMT + 1 hour.

Don't worry, you're not working longer. :)
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Skybone on November 16, 2005, 06:18:54 PM
Quote from: HJM
Quote from: chrisola
apparantly, SD used vietnamese children to wind them with their teeth, until Nike offered the kids more money to make cr@ppy trainers instead..


Careful...... :lol:


Yeah, Nike's have reasonable quality control... ;)
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Steve-Mr Pig 2U on November 16, 2005, 08:14:36 PM
I believe PAF's were hand wound until the late 50's, when Gibson bought two automated machines, even then they still hand wound some. Some people will try to tell you otherwise but we know that this is true.
As a side note, No PAF's were made after September 1960. They became Patent number pickups. Shorter Alnico V magnets were used and the coils were symmetrically wound.
Seymour is correct in saying that no PAFís were scatter wound (not intentionally any way)
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: willo on November 16, 2005, 08:24:33 PM
Quote from: Brow
Seymour Duncan used an old record player to re-wind his own pickups back in the day.

I don't think he ever manufactured pickups using that method tho, as like HJM said, it'd take ages to wind 1 pickup  :)


Yeah, I like this idea though...stick on a record, sit back and listen to Duane Eddy or whoever was popular, sit back and by the time the album's finished, the record player has wound your pickup for you! Awesome! :)

Quote from: Steve-Mr Pig 2U
I believe PAF's were hand wound until the late 50's


Quote from: Steve-Mr Pig 2U
Seymour is correct in saying that no PAFís were scatter wound (not intentionally any way)


I thought scatter winding/hand winding were the same thing? I don't pay too much attention to the technical stuff I must say, for me something either sounds good or it doesnt (simple!), but are scatter winding and hand winding two different processes then?

I always assumed that they were the same because the winding was randomly scattered as a byproduct of winding by hand...
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Steve-Mr Pig 2U on November 16, 2005, 09:32:44 PM
Scatter winding can only be done by hand, but not all hand wound pickups are scatterwound.... less confused? I thought not!

Scatter winding a pickup is quite a time intensive proccess, so not many hand winders actually do it, but the tonal benefits are more than worth it.
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: hobleguitars on November 16, 2005, 10:25:07 PM
Not sure that's entirely true - I'll confuse things a little more. With a computer and various suitable tools, you can program a machine (built with a record player, for example) to scatterwind the pickup, so no human hand has to have touched it, yet it would still be completely random/scatterwound. Me and my dad were going to do this at one point, but then I just decided to build guitars.

So scatterwound pickups don't have to be made by hand, and hand-winding pickups doesn't necessarily mean their scatterwound. Nit-picking, or what? 8)
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: indysmith on November 16, 2005, 10:36:38 PM
is scatterwinding just winding it randomly then? what difference does it make? why don't you just get a machine to do it?
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Steve-Mr Pig 2U on November 17, 2005, 12:16:14 AM
Scatter winding CAN NOT be done by machine, all the big companies have tried it, and it doesnít work. If it did, donít you think some one would be doing it?

Computers cannot replicate a human brain or any of its functions, fact.

No offence intended, but you canít make statements like 'computers can be programmed to scatter wind', if you've never scatter wound a pickup before yourself.
Sorry to contradict you so strongly, but I spend every day of the week winding pickups and I can assure you it is not something that can be programmed into a computer.

Scatter winding isnít just random winding, itís an integral part of the winding process where the wind pattern is broken down and the uniform layering is separated, stopping capacitance building in the coil.
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 17, 2005, 08:14:58 AM
In theory you could map the movements of your arm while it moves and then repeat the pattern perfectly, but it would loose the random human element that everybody wants with a handmade product. Scatterwound pickups are all very slightly different, I like that, a machine would struggle to do that part of the equation.
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 17, 2005, 12:38:50 PM
i think (and i could be wrong  :oops:  ) that hand wound pickups are more random than machine wound, but still not as random as intentionally scatterwound

so, basically, as has been said before, all scatterwound pickups are handwound, but not all handwound pickups are scatterwound   :twisted:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 17, 2005, 12:40:26 PM
And a lot of so called hand winders use automated shut-off machines like gibson did....
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 17, 2005, 01:19:27 PM
^i know, i realise that "handwound" can be very ambiguous- what the winder considers handwound might not be what  you or i do...
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 17, 2005, 01:37:50 PM
I like to think that some one somewhere is sat winding wire round a bobbin by hand, no machines to turn it for them, one turn at a time.... :lol:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 17, 2005, 02:59:42 PM
^ do bk even do that?

(no flaming please, i don't know, i'm just asking!)
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Steve-Mr Pig 2U on November 17, 2005, 07:21:45 PM
Right, I found out the dates today.
Gibson purchased 2 automated winders in 1959 and so from 57-59 they were hand winding. In 61 they became fully automated as proper winding machines were purchased.

No one in their right mind would wrap wire round a bobbin by hand!
Many people call hand winding ďhand guided windingĒ as they believe a hand wound means wrapping the wire round a turn at a time whilst turning the bobbin by hand.
Do you call hand made guitars, hand assisted? You donít see any luthierís rubbing the shape of a body out with the palm of their hand and scratching the routs out with their nails, they use tools just like us, In our case itís a winder to spin the bobbin while we hold the wire between our fingers!
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: blue on November 17, 2005, 10:30:11 PM
gasp!!!  i am abslutely horrified!!  i will be returning my "hand wound" pickups immediately and demanding a full refund!  i feel so cheated, thinking i was enjoying hand made quality.  i just went and tried them out again, and suddenly, knowing what i now know, they sound terrible!

rest assured, i will be contacting trading standards.  and watchdog.  and which magazine.  you liars are going down!!!

 :shock:


 :twisted:  :evil:  :P
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 18, 2005, 11:27:54 AM
Quote from: Steve-Mr Pig 2U
Right, I found out the dates today.
Gibson purchased 2 automated winders in 1959 and so from 57-59 they were hand winding. In 61 they became fully automated as proper winding machines were purchased.

No one in their right mind would wrap wire round a bobbin by hand!
Many people call hand winding ďhand guided windingĒ as they believe a hand wound means wrapping the wire round a turn at a time whilst turning the bobbin by hand.
Do you call hand made guitars, hand assisted? You donít see any luthierís rubbing the shape of a body out with the palm of their hand and scratching the routs out with their nails, they use tools just like us, In our case itís a winder to spin the bobbin while we hold the wire between our fingers!


i've read the interview (bought the mag last night)

and i realise that you use machines to assist you! as long as they sound good...  :lol:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: HJM on November 18, 2005, 12:41:49 PM
Palm rubbed guitars...... :lol:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 18, 2005, 03:12:42 PM
Quote from: HJM
Palm rubbed guitars...... :lol:


man, i'd pay extra for one of those- the extra palm sweat might help the tone and artificially age it or something  :roll:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: steve on November 18, 2005, 03:25:43 PM
Quote from: dave_mc
Quote from: HJM
Palm rubbed guitars...... :lol:


man, i'd pay extra for one of those- the extra palm sweat might help the tone and artificially age it or something  :roll:


Err..id rather sweat on it myself!!
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 18, 2005, 07:09:33 PM
Quote from: steve
Err..id rather sweat on it myself!!


i know i was being sarcastic, and sending a little dig at gibson/fender's "aged" finishes...  :twisted:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Steve-Mr Pig 2U on November 18, 2005, 08:08:40 PM
All handwinders use a machine to spin the bobbin, Its the only way to do it.
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 18, 2005, 09:52:33 PM
Quote from: Steve-Mr Pig 2U
All handwinders use a machine to spin the bobbin, Its the only way to do it.


we know, we're only kidding

you should see how often i recommend bkp's on the other forums i frequent (man, i can't believe i used frequent as a verb :( )
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: big steve on November 18, 2005, 11:37:27 PM
man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Custom79 on November 19, 2005, 02:16:37 AM
Seymour Duncan was in my local guitar shop the other day, he turned up unexpected and I missed him by about ten minutes ..... DOH !!
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: dave_mc on November 19, 2005, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: big steve
man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:


 :lol:

i have a degree as well, that allows me to use words like "frequent"- and i still feel dirty for using it... ;)
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: willo on November 19, 2005, 10:44:23 AM
Quote from: big steve
man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:


there's nothing wrong with a bit of verbosity... :D
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Peterku on November 19, 2005, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: big steve
man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:

Umm... what does loquacious mean? My dictionary doesn't know it. :x
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: steve on November 19, 2005, 01:45:01 PM
Quote from: Peterku
Quote from: big steve
man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:

Umm... what does loquacious mean? My dictionary doesn't know it. :x


It means any word not found in a dictionary.
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Ratrod on November 19, 2005, 04:08:50 PM
Quote from: steve
Quote from: Peterku
Quote from: big steve
man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:

Umm... what does loquacious mean? My dictionary doesn't know it. :x


It means any word not found in a dictionary.


That rules out the dirty words then.
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Searcher on November 19, 2005, 07:28:16 PM
Quote from: Peterku
Quote from: big steve
man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:

Umm... what does loquacious mean? My dictionary doesn't know it. :x


I think it means 'talkative'. Maybe even 'verbose'. :wink:
Title: Seymour Duncan interview in Guitar Buyer
Post by: Peterku on November 19, 2005, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: Searcher
I think it means 'talkative'. Maybe even 'verbose'. :wink:

Thanks. :)