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At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: TwilightOdyssey on February 04, 2006, 05:39:18 PM

Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on February 04, 2006, 05:39:18 PM
New editorial up on Lamentations of The Flame Princess, by Dave "Boswell" Burns,
Impure Metal: How Underground Heavy Metal Became Mainstream Heavy Music.

http://www.lotfp.com/New/Editorials/ImpureMetal/ImpureMetal.pdf
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Skybone on February 04, 2006, 06:35:25 PM
At the time, when asked about the future of "grunge", Kurt Kobain is reported to have said "Don't know, but I really like Kyuss at the moment...".

Dave Grohle mentioned that when they were recording "Nevermind" that they had a tape in the car, one side was Melvins, the other was Celtic Frost...
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Ratrod on February 04, 2006, 06:59:21 PM
There isn't that much grunge around these days but there's still plenty of metal.

All kinds of music evolve and influence eachother.

Here's another theory: Hippy music killed rockabilly (in the 60's).
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: jt on February 04, 2006, 11:52:36 PM
:D Most of this is S**t to be honest Ben, One thing i can`t stand is people trying to create a belief that theres nobility in being Non commercial [ in politics its trying to create a belief in the nobility of poverty ] This argument is utter s**t from start to finish. Just because bands write a tunefull song doesn`t mean there selling out. Mettalica have allways been overated.  Thrash was allways S**t as well. The reason  it died out was that everybody realised it was S**t & stopped buying it.

 :D  8)
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: tewboss on February 05, 2006, 01:48:03 AM
That article seemed to drag on but just consist of the points 1) the big four of thrash sold out 2) recent metal is shite and isn't really metal 3) i know best.

the reason i stopped listening to most thrash was because the early stuff was cheese (despite what he protests) with nonsense lyrics about metal militia etc. he also neglects to mention that most people into metal were into Motley Crue, Poison, Warrant etc which like thrash just got to a point where they were doing the same thing and trying to outdo each other (speed in thrash's case, nobbing groupies in the case of hair metal). anyway in the case of Metallica, Cliff Burton wasn't really the usual metaller and by the time he was involved he had changed the stupid lyrics of Kill Em All into more meaningful matters which was much better musically. it wasn't selling out, it was about growing up. Voi Vod started doing more interesting music which didn't fit with the distinct lines of thrash.
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: jt on February 05, 2006, 03:12:54 AM
:D   + 1

Absolutley right. The reason the press started to claim that Thrash was just noise played at speed was that most metal fans were saying it !!! he neglected to point that fact out. Your right hair metal which used to be fun just became about the hair & image hence the fact that we all refer to it as hair metal !!.

The reason why Megadeath [ Dave Mustaine ] was trying to put some distance between his band & the rest of the thrash scene was that his band [ Megadeath ] actually had some good songs in there, where as most of the rest of the Thrash scene didn`t have any !!

The reason why every Metallica fan i`ve ever meet says The Black album is there best is obviouse at least to me.....It`s because thats the album that has there best songs on it !! "Enter Sandman" is a classic.  :twisted:

 :D  8)
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Ratrod on February 05, 2006, 04:26:16 PM
Metallica has always been acused of selling out. On Lightnig they were selling out because there was a ballad on it. They sold out because they made a video for One. The Black Album was selling out because it was mainstream. Load and Reload was selling out because it followed alternative music and now St. Anger is selling out because it sounds like nu metal.

It's all b*ll*cks if you ask me.

Jason Newsted had this to say about selling out:"Yes we're selling out.........every seat in the house"
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Floyd Pepper on February 05, 2006, 06:40:11 PM
It's just evolution.  Punk killed prog rock.  House music killed...errr...something.  Brit Pop killed something else.

People get board of hearing the same stuff over and over again.  But it goes round in cycles.  Grunge was 60's garage comming round again.  10 years from now Grunge will be back again and my shirts will be fashionable again.  It's the 11 year cycle in pop music theory that you read about every 11 years or so.
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Hell Hound on February 05, 2006, 06:42:39 PM
well I think grunge and all the nu metal shite is the best thing that append to "metal". Why? Because all the FM metal shite got down with it and true metaler could do their thing in the underground scene. I don't care about what's "cool" theese days, I don't listen to radio, don't watch tv, I just search for what's good to my ear. I don't really care if those are considered good by mainstream media or not...
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: rahnooo on February 05, 2006, 09:28:54 PM
Quote from: Floyd Pepper
10 years from now Grunge will be back again and my shirts will be fashionable again.  It's the 11 year cycle in pop music theory that you read about every 11 years or so.


Melissa Auf Der Maur announced this week that 2006 is the year of the Grunge revival. She thinks that the 80's thing is coming to an end at the moment, so any week now it'll be 1990 again.

Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlain have hunkered down in a studio in Chicago to record a new Smashing Pumpkins record, and Ms auf der Maur is tipped as favourite to play bass on it, so I guess she'd know if the unwashed check shirted hordes were about to emerge over the horizon ;)
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: maliciousteve on February 06, 2006, 04:29:43 PM
Quote from: rahnooo
Quote from: Floyd Pepper
10 years from now Grunge will be back again and my shirts will be fashionable again.  It's the 11 year cycle in pop music theory that you read about every 11 years or so.


Melissa Auf Der Maur announced this week that 2006 is the year of the Grunge revival. She thinks that the 80's thing is coming to an end at the moment, so any week now it'll be 1990 again.

Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlain have hunkered down in a studio in Chicago to record a new Smashing Pumpkins record, and Ms auf der Maur is tipped as favourite to play bass on it, so I guess she'd know if the unwashed check shirted hordes were about to emerge over the horizon ;)


I bloody well hope not. The only good thing that came out of the grunge thing was Alice In Chains. I don't even really think that they're grunge anyway, just hard rock. But they get lumped into that catergory anyway.
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Hell Hound on February 06, 2006, 04:38:45 PM
Quote from: maliciousteve
The only good thing that came out of the grunge thing was Alice In Chains. I don't even really think that they're grunge anyway, just hard rock. But they get lumped into that catergory anyway.


SO TRUE :!:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: rahnooo on February 06, 2006, 05:31:29 PM
Quote from: maliciousteve
The only good thing that came out of the grunge thing was Alice In Chains. I don't even really think that they're grunge anyway, just hard rock. But they get lumped into that catergory anyway.


I always thought it was the lyrical subject matter that got Alice in Chains lumped in with the whole grunge scene. Certainly the riffs always smacked off stadium rock to me, but i have been known to be wrong.

The thing is, I think you get a few quality bands in each genre, and then a lot of mediocre bands. i quite liked *some* grunge bands, but found a lot of them to be rather tedious. Same can be said for most genres though. Personally I'm rubbing my hands in gleeful anticipation waiting for the new Smashing Pumpkins record. But again, I was never sure they were really grunge...

And, (here comes the hippy argument) why labels anyway? It's just music maaaaaaan.
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Ratrod on February 06, 2006, 07:05:18 PM
Does somebody have a definition of grunge?
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Hell Hound on February 06, 2006, 07:13:08 PM
Grunge  :arrow: cr@ppy guitar players with bad dressing style :lol:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: rahnooo on February 06, 2006, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: Hell Hound
Grunge  :arrow: cr@ppy guitar players with bad dressing style :lol:


Billy Corgan, Jerry Cantrell, Kim Thayil, Mike McCready bad guitarists? Really?

Even Kurt Cobain was inventive in his own way.  

Yes there were a lot of grunge bands who couldn't pay for toffee, but again, thats something many genre's have. I'm not standing up for grunge, it all got a little boring. But I don't think you can write off some pretty decent bands due to the connotations of a bad label. *shrugs*

*Rahnooo*
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: sambo on February 06, 2006, 08:22:17 PM
i think there are 3 categories of rock music and 3 ONLY! they are:

punk
classic
metal

EVERYTHING stems from those 3 and all this sub-category nonsense is a load of &*$%^&$% its bad enough that every single artist/band is just broadly stereotyped but to give them such a specific genre is ridiculous.
stuff like grunge i mean... come on... there are no unique characteristics of so called 'grunge' music that are of any real significance that could warrant its own genre.... its plain stupid....

why do all you adults who are supposed to be the clever wise ones, not see that no music can be placed completely in one genre/category and even then the categories have to be very broad....

teenagers (such as me) should run the music business, it would be so much better  :P

anyway ignore that last point im being serious....
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Hell Hound on February 06, 2006, 09:10:15 PM
rahnooo> it was a joke :roll:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: rahnooo on February 06, 2006, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Hell Hound
rahnooo> it was a joke :roll:


D'oh my bad. I've spent all day staring at a computer screen preping for my next set of professional exams tomorrow, think I must have left the sense of humour at the door  :oops:

You forgot to mention the lank greasy grunge hair and checked lumberjack shirt though  :wink:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: sambo on February 06, 2006, 09:15:27 PM
i said significant characteristics rahnoo  :P  :D

cool name by the way... *rahhnooo*

ANYWAY i need to stop digressing- back to the matter in hand you stupid adult stereotypers!
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Hell Hound on February 06, 2006, 09:16:19 PM
My... I used to wear those lumberjack shirt when i was young :oops:
Retrospectivly that was pretty horrible :lol:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: rahnooo on February 06, 2006, 09:19:14 PM
Quote from: Hell Hound
My... I used to wear those lumberjack shirt when i was young :oops:
Retrospectivly that was pretty horrible :lol:


Hehehe i still do. But mainly when I'm playing lap steel and pretending to be a redneck  :wink:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Muttley on February 07, 2006, 09:48:47 AM
Quote from: Hell Hound
Quote from: maliciousteve
The only good thing that came out of the grunge thing was Alice In Chains. I don't even really think that they're grunge anyway, just hard rock. But they get lumped into that catergory anyway.


SO TRUE :!:


I read an interview with Jerry Cantrell once, and he was fed up of the whole Grunge label.  I think it was something like "We're not Grunge, we're a metal band"  ;)

Labels are so annoying though, I hate the way people try and stick musicians in little boxes so they can file them on the shelf easier.

I base my listening habits on the following two musical categories: Stuff I Like, and Stuff I Don't Like.  ;)

Muttley
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: indysmith on February 07, 2006, 10:11:31 AM
Quote from: Muttley
Quote from: Hell Hound
Quote from: maliciousteve
The only good thing that came out of the grunge thing was Alice In Chains. I don't even really think that they're grunge anyway, just hard rock. But they get lumped into that catergory anyway.


SO TRUE :!:


I read an interview with Jerry Cantrell once, and he was fed up of the whole Grunge label.  I think it was something like "We're not Grunge, we're a metal band"  ;)

Labels are so annoying though, I hate the way people try and stick musicians in little boxes so they can file them on the shelf easier.

I base my listening habits on the following two musical categories: Stuff I Like, and Stuff I Don't Like.  ;)

Muttley

Haha that seems lie a sensible approach to follow, but i think genre distinctions have to exist sometimes; maybe not for you but for other people definately. e.g. If you are reccomending a metal band to ur grandma, you should probably tell her that its a metal band, to find out if she is in to metal of not? ...I dont really know what i'm saying but i think genres are necessary :lol:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: schmendict on February 07, 2006, 11:27:25 AM
Theres 45 pages to it!?
Like i can be arsed to read that...
There will always be conflict between people who like different styles of music, and there will always be people saying bands "sold out", and there will ALWAYS be people saying one style of music killed another. As other members have said, its just that most fans get bored with the music and switch on to others, only the hardcore fans of the particular "murdered" genre of music will go on to say stuff like "so and so killed whatever". Its a fact of life. People like controversy, and some people refuse to give up their music when others switch, maybe its their own last stand or possibly a sign of their attempt to show individuality.
Who knooooows?
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: carlaz on February 07, 2006, 12:46:49 PM
I don't think one genre (or sub-genre marketing niche, as the case may be) kills another genre.  It's just that musicians run out of ideas or otherwise lose their edge and/or audiences get bored and want to listen to something else. Continual cycle.

IMO, any working musician who says they don't care about making money is either a) excusing their failure to make money ;), or b) already really rich! ;)
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: sambo on February 07, 2006, 04:01:42 PM
yer genres are necessary but not all these ridiculous sub-categories....

for example like indy said... if you were recommending a band to someone you would need a genre but you wouldnt have to say "yer they're a grunge band" or "they're a hair metal band"... after all that doesnt really say ANYthing about the music itself just the image that is associated with the music they play....

it would be much better to just describe the MUSIC- for example say you were recommending Pantera you would say "they're a really heavy metal band" there you go- simple and accurate without the use of a stupid sub-category...

another bad thing about sub-categories like 'grunge' is that they make music less original/varied... you see instead of just having variety in a few main genres like classic rock, punk and metal, with all bands stemming off that... you have all the tiny sub categories made up of bands that share a really slight difference in music or image.... this means that any music someone creates is gonna be put in a fixed sub-category and very similar to all the bands that surround it, making it seem samey... and every time something new arrives instead of just describing it as say heavy metal with lots of harmony and melody for example, a new sub-category will be invented

its really hard to explain but basically just the use of the term 'grunge' pisses me off...

by the way muttley that was so right when you said you just divide music into two categories- stuff you like and stuff you dont like.. i think i said that somewhere in another post  :?  anyway yer i agreewith you completely!!!
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Hell Hound on February 07, 2006, 06:25:21 PM
Quote from: carlaz
IMO, any working musician who says they don't care about making money is either a) excusing their failure to make money ;), or b) already really rich! ;)


I CAN'T agree with that, music is about fun. I personnaly don't give a flying f**k about what people think of my music, being sincere and yourself and have fun doing it is the only thing important. If people like it and buy it that's a bonus, if they don't, f**k them :)
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: sambo on February 07, 2006, 06:30:05 PM
i think thats the one view that musicians will always be divided on... personally i agree with carlaz but i think we'll all have to agree to disagree on this one..
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Hell Hound on February 07, 2006, 06:38:23 PM
Well it's my underground metal fanself speaking :lol: But I can understand people think the other way around. I know a session drummer who mostly do cr@p to pay the bill and have his own crazy band on the side.
Halas it's the way it is. A good way would be to be a guitar teacher in a school, I know some who do that so they don't have feel bad doin cr@p :lol:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: sambo on February 07, 2006, 06:41:26 PM
yer that is a pretty good idea actually... or just guitar teaching in general....
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: carlaz on February 08, 2006, 09:54:16 AM
Quote from: Hell Hound
Quote from: carlaz
IMO, any working musician who says they don't care about making money is either a) excusing their failure to make money ;), or b) already really rich! ;)

I CAN'T agree with that, music is about fun. I personnaly don't give a flying f**k about what people think of my music, being sincere and yourself and have fun doing it is the only thing important. If people like it and buy it that's a bonus, if they don't, f**k them :)

Well, hey, I know it.  And I agree on a personal level -- but then I'm not a working musician! :)  I have a regular ol' job and if no one but me ever likes my music it matters not a whit.  I think my attitude would be different if I depended completely on music to provide my income.  Fun is great, but only tends to stick around very long when something is paying the bills.
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Muzzzz on January 23, 2007, 12:01:44 PM
Grunge Sucks  :evil:



Prog Rules  :evil:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Elliot on January 23, 2007, 12:37:55 PM
Just to bring it down to my level - back in the day lots of attractive girls liked grunge whereas only munters liked metal and none like shred  :D
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: Muttley on January 23, 2007, 03:30:34 PM
You can't destroy the Metal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6CPwu0I44

:lol:
Title: "Grunge Killed Metal." Why? Interesting article ..
Post by: headtheball on January 23, 2007, 09:48:08 PM
I always thought Soundgarden had more to do with Sabbath than anything else that was going on at the time, meself.

As a side point, Rage against the Machine are reforming. Marvel at my sideways thought process!!