Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: itamar101 on April 02, 2012, 02:00:16 PM
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The seymour duncan vintage 59' SH-1.
I am on the verge of buying some BKPs and I have always liked SD SH-1s but found that they lacked a bit of bass.
What do you guys think the solution would be/what is the closest to an SD SH-1.
I am planning on matching it with an Emerald bridge. does anyone have any experience with one? I fear that it might not be high enough output.
I mainly play hard rock and a bit of metal (Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Rhandy Rhoads) but I also play lots of blues and funk so I use a lot of cleans so cleans are very important and I want good bass response especially with distorted chords but I don't want it to sound too loose and definitely not muddy.
I generally use a less scooped and slightly less distorted tone than what you'd associate with Rhandy Rhoads.
Also, i play a Gibson Les Paul Studio with an Orange Thunder 30 if that helps at all.
The combos I was thinking of:
The Mule Neck & Emerald Bridge
The Mule Neck & Rebel Yell Bridge
Emerald Neck & Rebel Yell Bridge.
TL;DR 1) Closest pickups to a SD SH-1. Actually, If theres a pickups close to the JB-4 but less harsh sounding then that'd be great too.
2) Do you have any experience with and emerald bridge? how is it?
3) what combo would you recommend? I'm open to other suggestions but id really like to know whether the Emerald will be high enough output.
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get a riff raff set
I doubt you'll regret that
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Sorry, could you explain this further?
Do you mean that the Riff Raff is most similar too the SD or that I should get it for the bridge pickups or do you mean something else.
I don't especially want it as the bridge pickups. I'd like a minimum output of around 12.0k really.
The only reason that I'm unsure about getting the emerald bridge is really that in my mind i imagine it as very thin sounding and not very powerful. If someone could dismiss this claim (from experience) it'd be great.
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Well the Riff Raff uses an alnico V magnet like the SH-1 and is similar power, though the EQ is a little different as the SH-1 is more scooped in the mids. The VHII may also be an option for similar reasons but I'm afraid I don't know enough about these pups to say more. I know the VHII is a popular choice and I've read a number of favourable comments about the Riff Raff from Eric before so it's obviously impressive, as I suppose might be expected from BKP.
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I don't especially like the sound of the VHII in chords and I'm not sure of how well it could handle the heavier side of things.
I'm mainly going towards an Enerald VS Rebel yell bridge pickup and I'd like to know what you guys think of the then against each other for my needs.
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The seymour duncan vintage 59' SH-1.
I am on the verge of buying some BKPs and I have always liked SD SH-1s but found that they lacked a bit of bass.
What do you guys think the solution would be/what is the closest to an SD SH-1.
I am planning on matching it with an Emerald bridge. does anyone have any experience with one? I fear that it might not be high enough output.
I mainly play hard rock and a bit of metal (Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Rhandy Rhoads) but I also play lots of blues and funk so I use a lot of cleans so cleans are very important and I want good bass response especially with distorted chords but I don't want it to sound too loose and definitely not muddy.
I generally use a less scooped and slightly less distorted tone than what you'd associate with Rhandy Rhoads.
Also, i play a Gibson Les Paul Studio with an Orange Thunder 30 if that helps at all.
The combos I was thinking of:
The Mule Neck & Emerald Bridge
The Mule Neck & Rebel Yell Bridge
Emerald Neck & Rebel Yell Bridge.
TL;DR 1) Closest pickups to a SD SH-1. Actually, If theres a pickups close to the JB-4 but less harsh sounding then that'd be great too.
2) Do you have any experience with and emerald bridge? how is it?
3) what combo would you recommend? I'm open to other suggestions but id really like to know whether the Emerald will be high enough output.
Hi,
This is all a bit confusing TBH. Are you speaking of the SH-1 neck or bridge model or the set? And regarding the Emerald - do you already have one or are you considering one to buy?
As regards your suggested combos: Emerald set (if GnR is the main focus) or Rebel Yell set (if Randy Rhoads is the main focus) would seem more obvious to me. Since clean tones are also important to you Emerald set seems more appropriate although I have not yet played one.
The closest BKP to a SH-1? Very difficult to say - probably the Riff Raff.
The closest pickup to an SH-4 but less harsh? This is not the first time I read that the SH-4 is harsh but the three I had lacked highs so badly that they never had the slightest chance of being harsh even if they wanted to. In that case check out the Holydiver.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks for the detailed answer.
I was talking about the SH-1 neck.
I'm worried that the Riff Raff will lack in bass frequencies and sound very bright. Do you have and experiences with that? And does the Emerald sound thin at all?
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It would help a lot if I read the whole post before saying anything :roll:
I think Emerald is a good shout for the neck based on the way Tim described it to me. The Holydiver is similar to a JB but a LOT better in every way. If you quite like the tone of a JB you'll love the Holydiver. I'm putting mine into a mahogany PRS and there's a You Tube clip somewhere in the players section of a Holydiver in a Les Paul that's fantastic.
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the riff raff is plenty of bass
not as middy as shown in the chart, though
and yes, it's a pretty bright pickup (in a good way, not piercing), but the rebel yell is at least as bright
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+1 for the RiffRaff-neck. Emerald might work fine too.
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Hmm...
I am actually quite interested in the Holy Diver and the Rebel Yell now.
How does the holy diver sound with lower gain tones? I don't think that i'm gonna be playing with the sort of gain that the holy divers are usually demoed with but they seem very cool but I'm not sure how they handle classic rock/high gain stuff and how their cleans are.
I really just want a full but bright and clear tone.
After rewatching a few demos of the emerald i find that i sounds a bit thin i think.
How does the rebel yell fare against the holy diver and vise versa considering what i have just said?
So far it think that the riff raff is gonna go in the neck.
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Actually, i've just realised that the Holy Divers are recommended for bright sounding bolt-on guitars. That means they're dark sounding right?
how would they sound with an already dark sounding guitar?
I really want quite a bright pickup in order to add a bit of high end to the les paul without it sounding harsh or piercing.
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I wouldn't describe a Holydiver as 'bright' but they will work in a darker guitar. When I told Tim I was planning on putting a Holydiver in my mahogany PRS he said he loved the idea and here's a video clip of Holydivers in a Les Paul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T26RqvH3YBA
The solo playing starts at about 20 seconds. If you want a brighter pickup for a Les Paul style guitar you should try looking at a Cold Sweat.
By the way, one of the reasons I'm moving my Holydiver to the PRS is because it's so good at Classic Rock. From bands like Free to those using far more gain that 80's Metal, the Holydiver can do it all and it even has good cleans. I actually think it will be even nicer in the PRS and I LOVE it in my Jackson! To me, the tone of the Holydivers in that video clip is awesome but if you want brighter than a Holydiver I'd seriously look at Cold Sweats.
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I'm worried that the Riff Raff will lack in bass frequencies and sound very bright.
The RR bridge is indeed quite bright but in a good way - no harshness, no ice-pick, just a lot of clear high harmonics, and the low end is not lacking, this pup works a bit like a good Tele bridge, it's kind of twangy but fattens in a really nice way with overdrive and the tone pot.
The RR neck is very clear and detailed but still warm, very dynamic / touch sensitive too, and really sings from pristine clean to bluesy crunch to heavy gain. I do like my two others BKP 'bucker necks (crawler and mule), but the RR is actually the one I use the most.
To make a long story short: RR are bright but neither thin nor shrill sounding.
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Ok, so I'm pretty certain about the riff raff neck now.
I am still unsure about the bridge pickup but I'm considering the holy diver, rebel yell and the alnico cold sweat. Again, although I like what I hear of the HD and the CD I haven't found any rock demos which is what I play most of the time.
So I'll carry on searching but which one would you guys recommend for my les Paul?
Full but clear and bright but not shrill.
Thanks again!
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The bridge Cold Sweat is only ceramic.
I can assure you that the Holydiver will do Rock as that's what constitutes most of our set and it's what I use most of the time. I have used Cold Sweats before too and if you want a brighter and more cutting tone, they will do it too. For the Holydiver, think Doug Aldrich and Jake E. Lee while for the Cold Sweat, think John Sykes but don't get too hung up on those comparisons as they're both very versatile pickups. I've used both to play everything from Blues Rock to modern Metal and they both cope just fine. If you want thick, warm, organic and fluid with lots of articulation, get the Holydiver. If you want something tighter and brighter, get the Cold Sweats.
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Thanks. I'm edging towards the holy diver but I just wish I could find more clips of it in a les Paul. I'll look in the clips thread soon.
Does anyone have an opinion on the rebel yell bridge?
I dont really want a ceramic pickup so the cold sweat is out of the question.
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I agree with almost everything except that to my ears Doug Aldrich's tone is a lot closer to John Sykes - no surprise as he inherited his spot in Whitesnake - than to Jake E. Lee.
The Rebel Yell could be the perfect compromise between both - more mids and warmth than the Cold Sweat and more bite and cut than the Holydiver. That would also fit the "bright but not shrill" requirement.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks so much for the help.
I'm off to find clips now, I just haven't had much time.
The holy diver still seems pretty cool to me as well. I just need to know how it sound with distorted chords in a les Paul. Hopefully not overly dark.
Anyway, I'll probably find some good clips seeing as how popular the holy diver is.
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I agree with almost everything except that to my ears Doug Aldrich's tone is a lot closer to John Sykes - no surprise as he inherited his spot in Whitesnake - than to Jake E. Lee.
I don't find any of them similar, but Jake and Doug definitely "sound alnico" while Sykes have had both ceramic and alnico different tones throughout the years
I have the impression that the c-bomb or miracle man or even the a-bomb would do a better Sykes than the cold sweat, but the diver definitely does a better Doug or Jake than the others
the cold sweat reminds me more of Ty Tabor, Snake Sabo, Dimebag or Nuno
the rebel yell sounds more like Warren DeMartini or something
but in the end, they all will sound like you
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Thanks so much for the help.
I'm off to find clips now, I just haven't had much time.
The holy diver still seems pretty cool to me as well. I just need to know how it sound with distorted chords in a les Paul. Hopefully not overly dark.
Anyway, I'll probably find some good clips seeing as how popular the holy diver is.
the diver is not a dark pickup
it's actually pretty bright if you're not downtuning heavily or using it in a SG
it's a midrange based pickup, so it can sound nasal in certain guitars or extreme lower tuning
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the rebel yell sounds more like Warren DeMartini or something
Yes, precisely!
When I had the RY it always made me think of "Round and Round"! :lol:
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but in the end, they all will sound like you
So true.
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Thanks so much for the help.
I'm off to find clips now, I just haven't had much time.
The holy diver still seems pretty cool to me as well. I just need to know how it sound with distorted chords in a les Paul. Hopefully not overly dark.
Anyway, I'll probably find some good clips seeing as how popular the holy diver is.
the diver is not a dark pickup
it's actually pretty bright if you're not downtuning heavily or using it in a SG
it's a midrange based pickup, so it can sound nasal in certain guitars or extreme lower tuning
Thats great.
Unfortuneatly i have found many clips showing what i want but ill be sure to checkout the artists you mentioned to get a good idea of the sound.
But anyway, ill have to make a decision and at the end of the day these are BKPs after all and i'm whatever i choose will sound great. :)
Thanks and of course if you have any opinions on what i should get feel free to comment :D
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i think I'm gonna go with the holy diver. what do you guys think? does anyone have any experiences playing rock with it?
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Unfortuneatly i have found many clips showing what i want but ill be sure to checkout the artists you mentioned to get a good idea of the sound.
Doug Aldrich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOwd30wXc-0
Jake E. Lee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6LXVqetMeo
John Sykes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuKDHNPs4V8
Ty Tabor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUiyO-T_1Zs
Snake Sabo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8_rq7bhbkQ
Dimebag Darrell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3JSbOt7CLo
Nuno Bettencourt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoKJpcROgJk
Warren DeMartini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u8teXR8VE4
ps: note that all of them have extremely saturated tones, but you can notice the high end and midrange differences under the huge amounts of gain
they are seymour duncan, gibson and bill lawrence high output models users, and those brands make quite saturated pickups, so BKPs would sound much clearer
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Unfortuneatly i have found many clips showing what i want but ill be sure to checkout the artists you mentioned to get a good idea of the sound.
Doug Aldrich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOwd30wXc-0
Jake E. Lee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6LXVqetMeo
John Sykes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuKDHNPs4V8
Ty Tabor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUiyO-T_1Zs
Snake Sabo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8_rq7bhbkQ
Dimebag Darrell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3JSbOt7CLo
Nuno Bettencourt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoKJpcROgJk
Warren DeMartini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u8teXR8VE4
ps: note that all of them have extremely saturated tones, but you can notice the high end and midrange differences under the huge amounts of gain
they are seymour duncan, gibson and bill lawrence high output models users, and those brands make quite saturated pickups, so BKPs would sound much clearer
Hmm. I really liked Doug Aldrich's tone as well as Warren DeMartini's and and Dimebag's but i thought that Warren's was slightly to trebly for what i use and Dimebag's tone (although nice) is just much heavier than what i'll ever play.
I did find that Aldrich's tone (and all of the rest of the guitarists that you've linked me to) is a bit too saturated and compressed. I understand that this isn't the case with BKPs. Right?
I understand that the holy diver is based on doug aldrich's sound or is at least very similar. would that be correct?
Also, doesn't Doug Aldrich use Suhr pickups? If i remember correctly they made him a signature set.
Anyway, from what i hear that the Holy Diver is meant to sound like it's winning i think. but the rebel yell doesn't seem like it would be a bad choice.
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Ironically, one of the reasons I'm moving the Holydiver into my PRS and putting a Warpig in the Jackson is because there are times when I want more saturation in the sound. Would an overdrive pedal in front of the amp make the Holydiver sound more saturated too? I don't use an overdrive at all now so I don't know.
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Would an overdrive pedal in front of the amp make the Holydiver sound more saturated too? I don't use an overdrive at all now so I don't know.
:?
mate, now you disappoint me
you've been missing the diver's greatest asset all this time
it's one of the most boost friendly pickups I ever played and it sounds sooo much better (for distortion) with the right pedals (mine loved the mxr wylde overdrive and a ts808 clone)
if you don't wanna lose any low end, the plus mode of the ibanez ts9dx is a nice and "cheap" tube screamer alternative without going boutique/expensive mod
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lol, that's not strictly true but the only overdrive pedal I've ever owned is a Bad Monkey, which was really good, especially given how cheap it is but when I bought my Switchblade amp I got rid of it because the Switchblade has masses of gain on tap. Now I think about it, when I did use the Bad Monkey on my old Marshall amp with the gain on zero and the volume maxed out, it did have a very pleasing result. The sound from the Holydiver became 'bigger' and 'fuller' with far more saturation but also became more articulate in that amp. The problem was that the boost pedal had no effect on volume for solos when the Bad Monkey was used like that so I never actually bothered trying it with this amp. However, due to the multi channel nature of the Switchblade that shouldn't be a problem as I can simply turn the volume up on a different preset. Perhaps I should experiment with overdrives before going to the expense of a Warpig as what I wanted the Warpig for was a bigger, fuller and more saturated tone.
Any suggestions on overdrives to look at that won't cost the earth other than the Bad Monkey and the MXR Wylde? I'll look on Ebay.
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I had a set of Duncan SH1s/59s in my Gibby Les Paul for a bit and absolutely hated them. I found them far too bassy and boomy and far too scooped.
I swapped them 1st for a set of Duncan Seth Lovers (which I liked alot) and now have a set of BKP Mules and I couldn't be happier.
Is there any reason in particular you don't just want to go for the Emerald neck and get a pickup that you know will match the bridge tonally?
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Hmm. I really liked Doug Aldrich's tone as well as Warren DeMartini's and and Dimebag's but i thought that Warren's was slightly to trebly for what i use and Dimebag's tone (although nice) is just much heavier than what i'll ever play.
I did find that Aldrich's tone (and all of the rest of the guitarists that you've linked me to) is a bit too saturated and compressed. I understand that this isn't the case with BKPs. Right?
I understand that the holy diver is based on doug aldrich's sound or is at least very similar. would that be correct?
Also, doesn't Doug Aldrich use Suhr pickups? If i remember correctly they made him a signature set.
Anyway, from what i hear that the Holy Diver is meant to sound like it's winning i think. but the rebel yell doesn't seem like it would be a bad choice.
they use very saturated amps and boosters, so you wouldn't worry about excessive saturation, if you set your equipment for your tastes
the diver was based on early Vivian Campbell's tones on first Dio album, which was actually using a ceramic dimarzio
but then, there's the story... the original BKP holy diver later became the cold sweat model
the "new" version (which is already 6 years old) is loosely based on the duncan JB, with alnico 5 and a hotter winding, and was one of the rebel yell prototypes for Steve Stevens
Doug, which was also Dio's guitarist 2 decades later, had duncans (custom custom, I think) and then suhr pickups, which are in the same ballpark, but hotter
Vivian also became a duncan JB user from late 80's until today
Jake was a JB user as well
they actually didn't have much choice
90% of 80's players had to choose between the duncan jb, dimarzio super distortion or keeping stock cr@ppy pickups
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Ok. That seems promising. How well does the Holy Diver clean up? That might be a deciding factor against the rebel yell.
Also, which pickup is "ballsier"? I want a full and ballsy but clear tone.
What do you think about a neck VHII. After surfing the forums a bit i've read good stuff about it. How does it suit my needs in comparison to a riff raff?
And earlier you said that the Holy Diver "sounds sooo much better for distortion with the right pedals". Did you mean that it sounds better boosted with a good pedal than plugged straight into an amp? I'm not to fond of boost pedals and i'm certainly not fond of the excessive noise that you get when using one + i think that they just make a mess with the tone.
If thats the case then would i be better off with the rebel yell?
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I had a set of Duncan SH1s/59s in my Gibby Les Paul for a bit and absolutely hated them. I found them far too bassy and boomy and far too scooped.
I swapped them 1st for a set of Duncan Seth Lovers (which I liked alot) and now have a set of BKP Mules and I couldn't be happier.
Is there any reason in particular you don't just want to go for the Emerald neck and get a pickup that you know will match the bridge tonally?
From all of the demos that I've seen of the Emerald (I admit that there aren't many that i could even find) the emerald just seems too thin sounding. Not enough balls or fullness. It seems like it'd be good for Guns N Roses like lead tones but to be honest the tones that i liked from guns n roses were Izzy's rythm tones. They were much fuller sounding than slash's harsh lead tones.
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How well does the Holy Diver clean up? That might be a deciding factor against the rebel yell.
Also, which pickup is "ballsier"? I want a full and ballsy but clear tone.
What do you think about a neck VHII. After surfing the forums a bit i've read good stuff about it. How does it suit my needs in comparison to a riff raff?
IMHO the RY cleans up better than the HD but both do that well.
What do you mean by "ballsier"? More oomph? Probably the HD - I have not played them in the same guitar.
The neck VHII is a very nice pickup with tight lows, slightly dark mids and good highs. I don't have a direct comparison to any other BKP neck as it's the only BKP I tried in the guitar it's in.
Cheers Stephan
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Yes, I did mean more oomph.
I think I'll stick with the Riff Raff neck.
I'd still like an answer from Eric in reference to the statement that the holy diver sounded better with a boost pedal or something. The question is in one of my recent posts.
Anyway, thanks so much for the help so far guys.
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Any help?
I really want to order these as soon as possible but i don't want to £100 pounds for a certain pickups if i can get another that is better for my needs and the same price.
I really want to make sure that i'm getting the perfect pickup for myself and i still have some insecurities that i'd love to have answered.
I'm just worried cos this thread seems to be going down the page very quickly and i still dont have the answers that i want.
So, anyway, this post is basically just to bump my thread up in hope of getting my questions answered before my thread get lost in the pile of other threads.
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Perhaps that's because we're saying the same things again and again and you're quite naturally having some last minute hesitations. I fully understand as it's a lot of money and I go through the same thing but the reality is that for the bridge, it seems your best choices are Rebel Yell and Holydiver. If you want it brighter and tighter you need the Rebel Yell and if you'd rather have it warmer and more mids then go for the Holydiver. There's not a lot else that can be said. I'd say the Holydiver but then I may be biased because that's what I have and I love it. I like the bridge humbucker to be thick, fluid and smooth and in the Jackson I want it to go from Classic Rock to modern Metal and it will do that just fine. I contacted Tim about a pickup for my mahogany PRS that would run from clean and Blues to 80's Metal so that between 2 guitars I could cover everything and I expected him to say VHII or Abraxas but guess what - he suggested the Holydiver for the PRS too! This really is a VERY versatile pickup.
As for the neck pickup, regardless of what is said you seem to keep coming back to the Riff Raff. Again, for my mahogany PRS I told Tim I wanted the lovely creamy tone that Dave Murray of Iron Maiden had on the earlier albums when he was using a DiMarzio PAF neck humbucker and he said that while the Cold Sweat neck was the obvious choice, he preferred the Emerald neck for that tone and thought it was the best possible match for the Holydiver bridge. For my money, you can't argue with that but the choice is yours.
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Thanks a lot.
It's just that one post about the holy diver sounding better with a boost or something. I'm not exactly sure what Eric meant by that post and I'd really like to know cos i have no intention of using a boost or a tubescreamer. I'm not gonna be able to afford one for a while and i don't really like them anyway.
The thing holding me back from buying the emerald neck is the lack of video clips of it. It would practically be throwing £100 into the unknown and hoping for the best.
Is the Holy Diver totally loose or does have some tightness. I don't want my notes to fly all over the place but neither do I want them to be too saturated and compressed. As long as the Holy Diver is reasonably tight I think that I'll go for it but it worries me that in order for it too sound the best it needs to be boosted. What are your experiences with in in that matter?
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The Holydiver is plenty tight enough and I have a cover on mine. For the HD you need to focus on words like 'thick', 'fluid', 'smooth' and 'warm' etc. but thick and fluid doesn't mean loose. My JB could get loose and flubby but the Holydiver never does and it's very responsive to small changes. Pickup height affects the tone quite a bit and I once experimented with DR Hi-Beam strings instead of my usual Tite Fits and the difference was far more pronounced than I expected and it was certainly the pickup that helped to bring that out because the difference wasn't as pronounced on my other guitar. It is a highly articulate pickup. I also don't think it needs to be boosted to sound its best; it depends on the tone you're after. I've had my Holydiver for a while now and never used a boost and it's been fine. The best pickup I've ever used by far. The only reason I've just bought an overdrive to go with it is because there are times (not always) when I'd like a little more saturation in the tone and the pedal will facilitate that. If you don't want that heavily saturated tone, simply don't use an overdrive. I prefer to think of it as a measure of how versatile the pickup is as opposed to any limitation. Honestly mate, I'd be amazed if you didn't rate it as I've never heard anyone say a bad word about the Holydiver.
As for the neck pickup, it's always going to be a bit of a shot in the dark until you get it in your own guitar but consider a few things for a moment:
1) How many people have said it's a great neck pickup?
2) How many people have said it's cr@p?
3) Tim rates it VERY highly in the neck of a mahogany guitar.
4) An Emerald neck paired with a Holydiver bridge is a combination Tim rates very highly as he said to me: 'If you love the Dave Murray neck tone then Cold Sweat neck is the natural choice as it's very much in the ballpark although I personally love the Emerald neck in conjunction with the HD.'
It seems to me that Tim knows more about pickups than anyone else on here by a considerable margin and he's tried them all in numerous guitars and with numerous amps. If he tells me that he loves the Emerald neck pickup, especially in conjunction with a Holydiver bridge, then that's a combination to go for. A wise person told me many years ago that only a fool ignores free expert advice and it's something I've tried to live by ever since. Tim tells me that I need a Holydiver, even when I was thinking something else was better and I'll buy a Holydiver. He tells me the Emerald is the best option to go with it in the neck then that's what I'll buy. Keep life simple and I really don't think you'll be disappointed :)
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Thanks so much!
I think that I'll get an Emerald Neck and a Holy Diver Bridge.
Also what music do you play?
Thanks so much for the help.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Now for the desicion of whether to get a cover or not. If i do it'll be gold and if not I'll have to replace the rims with something thats looks better than black with black.
What are the advantages/disadvantages of covers?
I feel so annoying, I'm really sorry.
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Not at all :D
There's a really good BKP tutorial on You Tube about the difference between covered and open poled pickups:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D756154qUdo
The difference should be obvious once you listen to it but basically a pickup without a cover will cut through a bit better while a covered one will be a bit rounder. I have a cover on my Holydiver in the Jackson but that's partly because it's maple neck-thru with alder wings so a bit brighter than your guitar. In the PRS, which is a bit darker being mahogany, I'll be getting it open poled. In your shoes I'd obviously therefore be going without a cover but it's personal preference. If you don't want black pickups with black pickup rings, why don't you use cream pickup rings and get a zebra set? Depends on the colour of your guitar I suppose and I mention it for no better reason than the fact that I'm going to use zebras in mine and I really like the look.
By the way, although at my age my natural home is 80's Metal (hence my love of the Holydiver), I play in a covers band so my guitars do need to cover a range. We do songs ranging from Steve Harley and the Doobie Brothers, through Free and Lynard Skynard to Black Sabbath and Guns 'n' Roses as well as modern material like Foo Fighters, Kasabian etc. It's quite a mix and the Holydiver sounds good with them all. I'll grant you it's most at home with Classic Rock and 80's Metal but it honestly is very versatile.
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I really like zebra coils with any colour of rings but I just like covers more. That being said, I'm obviously willing to sacrifice a bit of looks for something that will be better suited to what I want.
I just wish that open coils matched with the studios colours as well as they do with les paul standards. Anyway, I'll have to make a desicion someday and I'll probably end up with zebra coils :D
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Actually, what are your opinions on a Tremonti style Covered neck and open coil bridge except with a gold cover?
It'll be on a fireburst les Paul studio (they are much prettier than pictures would suggest :) )
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Got any pictures?
I largely got a cover on mine because I was bored with having pickups without covers but in all honesty I'm not bothered any more. Out of all the covers offered, there's not much that really appeals to me. Chrome, nickel and gold can look good and I quite like the black cover on mine but for all four, it depends on the guitar. I love the burnt chrome look but it wouldn't have worked on my Jackson and while I think it would be fine on the PRS, I think it would sound better in that guitar without a cover. I can't say I'm that keen on any of the other covers. I have tried a black battleworn as the picture of the Painkiller looks great on the website but in reality it just looked a mess. If/when the cover on my Jackson becomes worn or damaged, I'll ask BKP to remove it and I wouldn't pay to get another one fitted.
I don't like the Tremonti look myself but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think either cream coils or zebra would look fine but I think zebra is cooler.
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Actually, what are your opinions on a Tremonti style Covered neck and open coil bridge except with a gold cover?
It'll be on a fireburst les Paul studio (they are much prettier than pictures would suggest :) )
oh the hard choices a man has to make in life... :D
(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAPIbQEB4L6fpNWDy4MjuwivOniKEvDh5SPz_Pd0G2Lkbb1e3Px6f3_qFYeiYAWq33OzuWzLNjBcqdtTjBJKhL2IAm1T1UMFbUS1HtOJATN5nNDbRTZC24yK2.jpg)
(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAFAbKWosa27lqMprxjnAbogopEi9zQSYkQMbhHSXi4uBNyfnXPOjR7ABdSfIXxO9Syp_sHrMKeuKQUotym37io8Am1T1UG_WDZI6UV1aoaECrBgATfmKl5E1.jpg)
(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAALccaQqqjfb1q-mbAMSS_Rb_SOV6EDAD9e1QpghAxB2CXQer4hHEW4OmdoLxuDUCqlGoJbpRT7K8IKeuegPiovAAm1T1UNz0jeWN6HwV2VpGlhQMn5JdTPyv.jpg)
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oh, almost forgot my "reverse Tremonti" Greco Les Paul
(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAJRKT4SVShmL7TJ83bA1OTZu9tov_E7BbUiDywLFnRHbSCyR8j93RqNjXNCN1VzfIkyWK8afCuD227AI6euVVgoAm1T1UH890o9GP4DaHmuslo9yRS_lhfg1.jpg)
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Dude! Thanks for the pics. Are those your guitars? They're awesome!
This is by far the most helpful forum I've ever used!
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Dude! Thanks for the pics. Are those your guitars? They're awesome!
This is by far the most helpful forum I've ever used!
yeah, my '73 Custom and my recently acquired '78 Greco EG900
I used to be very unflexible when it comes to pickup color combinations
I only liked dual open black or regular matched covers
recently I've been loving almost any usual color mismatched combos
black + cream, black + white, zebra + white, covered + uncovered
I think mismatching gives them quite a personal charm
before finding my black beauty, I spent a year dating an early 70's yellow cream les paul custom on ebay (I think it was an old refinish and didn't have a pickguard), and it that had an open black and an open alpine white humbucker
that was one unique looking guitar (being a common les paul custom) and that totally changed my mind on how a looked at mismatched looking sets
I really desired that thing, but couldn't afford it at the time... it was sold quite cheap (around US$1800) almost a year later and the buyer was some store and that son of a bitch put it back on ebay for like US$4500 :evil:
I probably have a picture somewhere
edit:
here it is
(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAFk4OFEyyG-KGpotQmOBYpfual-Dru3T9BUYmK67-NsODb0XKjCKlH0WrYkQzVF1KcE0orIsa1NIbyjFJDaRLVsAm1T1UMFofXwKqHgeKhIYFk2-hgzSzlrh.jpg)
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Thats sweet. I love cream les pauls. I actually love anything cream :)
I actually currently have a chrome neck pickup (stock) and a black Gibson P94T Hum-Sized P90 in the bridge so im used to mismatched colours.
I think I'm gonna go for a gold covered neck and an open-coil cream bridge. I might get a zebra bridge instead though.
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Oh!!!! Wait!!! I forgot to mention that my gibson has 300K Linear Volumes and 500k Non-Linear Tones.
Would the Holy Diver still work for me or would I seriously lack in treble frequencies?
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Oh!!!! Wait!!! I forgot to mention that my gibson has 300K Linear Volumes and 500k Non-Linear Tones.
Would the Holy Diver still work for me or would I seriously lack in treble frequencies?
Oops, accidental double post and i don't know how to delete it. Anyway, the question still remains.
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you need 500k or 550k audio pots
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What do you mean? In order to actually install the pickups or just for them to bring out enough treble frequencies to sound good?
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I guess they'll work with 300k pots but won't sound as good as 500k units. I think CanadianMetalhead is planning on using 1 meg pots for his new Holydiver but I may be wrong in that.
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Nah, I'm definately not using 1 meg. I'm not sure whether I even can or want to change to 500k. My Gibson has all its component connected on a PCB and I'm not sure how easy it'll be to swap then because I that, although if I do I may as well put in a push-pull for to enable coil taps.
Would it work if I only changed the bridge to 500k and left the neck at 300k?
Would the holy diver still sound good and not to dark if I kept the 300k pots? How much would that decrease the brightness and the treble frequencies of the holy diver?
Would it be a better idea to just get the Rebel Yell?
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It's not just brightness that you get with a 500k (or 550k) pot. It's clarity!!! I have a holydiver and I highly recommend the BKP 550k pot.
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Hmm. I see.
How easy would it be to install into a Gibson PCB sorta thing.
To see what I mean go to the Tech sub-forum, I've got a thread their called "lots and lots and lots of hum!!! Help!!!", there's a pic of the PCB board there.
And again, is it worth it or would I be better of getting a rebel yell?
If I did replace the post would if makes sense to also replace the tone pots (which are already 500k) or would I be find saving my money?
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Look, to put it simply, It would be kind of silly to buy top quality (and expensive, as you have already mentioned) BKPs and then have cr@ppy pots in your guitar. If you're really serious about upgrading your tone, invest money into new pickups AND all new top quality pots&caps. Remember, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
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Yeah, i think ill do that. But I'd still really like to know whether it's possible to swap the pots from a PCB without taking it all apart.
Also, if i were to upgrade the tone pots would it use the same types of pots as the volume?
Also, In my gibson should i get long shaft or standard shaft pots?
Lastly, which pots do you recommend? A push-pull for coil tapping would be nice would be nice but TBH i'll get a better sound without coil tapping then i don't need it. It'd still be nice if you good recommend me the best push-pull and the best "normal" pots.
Oh, also, will i need new capacitors? What exactly do they do?
Sorry for the long post, ill organise the questions:
1) Is it possible to swap the pots from a PCB without taking it all apart?
2) If i were to upgrade the tone pots would it use the same types of pots as the volume
3) In my gibson should i get long shaft or short shaft pots?
4) Which pots do you recommend? A push-pull would be nice but not vital.
5) Do I need new capacitors too? What do they do?
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1.) Without taking it all apart? Probably not. Also, not worth the hassle.
2.) I guess. Depends on what you want (coil split?)
3.) If I'm not mistaken, Les Pauls need long shaft pots (not 100%)
4&5.) My advice: go to the BKP online shop - you need:
2x BKP/CTS 550k pot (neck&bridge volume)
2x Regular 500k pot (neck&bridge tone)
2x Jensen BKP 22n capacitor
If you want coil splits then substitute one or two regular 500k pots with 500k push/pull pots (two if you want each pickup to have it's own coil split or one if you want to have one push/pull for both pickups). Either way, be sure to use push/pull pots in place of the tone controls and 550k pots for volume.
The caps in your gibson are ceramic (cheap). You don't NEED new caps but the ones I suggested are definitely a tonal improvement. It's up to you. Again, the weakest link in the chain.... :wink:
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Thanks.
So why suggest that I change the components if it's not worth the hassle? Should I change them or not?
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I thought you were asking about changing one or two pots on the PCB. If I were you I'd tear out that whole PCB and replace everything with the parts I listed. Don't change the pots&caps ON the PCB, just pull that sucker out and start from sratch with quality components. PCBs don't belong in guitars anyway...
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Ok, thanks.
Well I'll get a tech to do it anyway because my solder iron is broken and the nearest DIY store is about 1 1/2 hours drive from where I live.
One more thing (I hope): Should I get long or short pickup legs for my Les Paul when I order the pickups?
I am inclined to thank this whole forum for the amount of help that they have given me once more.
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Short or long, It doesn't matter in your case. But if you plan on moving your pickups to something like a PRS or similar in the future, then short (not enough room in the pickup cavity for long legs in those guitars).
Be sure to tell the tech to use the 550k pots for volume controls to get the best results. Regular or push/pull 500k for the tone controls.
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Hey, I'm just about to order the Holy Diver bridge and Emerald neck but I'm the having some inescapable second thoughts.
The thing is, The holy diver sounds great and I love that it has a thick tone unlike the rebel yell yet it still lets through the treble frequencies but it is still obviously a bit darker and the thing that's worrying me is that I'll be using a Les Paul and an Orange Thunder 30 which is quite a dark amp. Of course, it sounds amazing and isn't overly dark and I can get really nice lead and rhythm sounds that doesn't lack in treble at all but it's certainly darker than others british amps used to get the sound that like marshalls. Now, I imagine that i should still be able to get a nice bright but not shrill sound with the holy diver but I really just want to double check because I'm understandably (I hope) having some insecurities about whether to spend £100 on the oly Divers or whether the rebel yells would be a better option. I would really like to get the holy divers TBH and although the rebel yells are getting great reviews the Holy Divers just seem right for me and I'd be kind of disappointed if I don't get it and get the rebel yell instead but I just want to know whether I'm making the right decision and that it wont be too dark. I really like that rich, thick, fluid tone of the holy divers and the fact that they are still tight. By description they seem absolutely perfect for me but I'm having doubts whether they'd suit my rig.
Oh, I forgot to mention that my les paul actually is quite a bright guitar despite the mahogany. Maybe because it's chambered and has a maple top but anyway, it's actually overly bright with my hum-sized P90s.
Anyway, can anyone please dismiss my unreasonable insecurities? :)
Anyway, thanks and sorry for the long post and the hassle.
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lol, buyer's remorse before you've even bought! It's a lot of money so I guess it's natural but it's nothing other than unfounded self doubt I think. If I were to suddenly say 'You're right, get the Rebel Yell', you'd then be asking if that's really the right thing to do. The Rebel Yell is a lot brighter so will cut through better and stay tighter for longer but you'd also be losing all of the qualities that make the Holydiver so good. Unless you've had BKP before, you can't really imagine the level of articulation these things have. That link I posted earlier was to Holydivers in a Les Paul and it sounds just fine. I've also used my Holydivers with a Marshall amp and a Hughes & Kettner and in both instances they were fantastic despite two very different amps. When I tried using DR Hi-Beams on the guitar the whole thing acually became too bright and cuttin g so I had to revert back to Tite Fits. The thing is, you want rich, thick and fluid and that's Holydivers, not Rebel Yells.
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:) So the holy diver will still be bright enough even going through an orange amp? I think I'll stick with the holy divers because my guitar is very bright despite being built with mahogany and having 300k pots and I'm getting 550k pots for it anyway.
Anyway, I'll hopefully be buyin a set tonight but any more input is welcome.
I'll notify you guys when I order and what I ordered.
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I think that if you get them open poled with 550k pots you'll be fine. As I said in an earlier post, I already have a covered Holydiver in my Jackson and it's great, even on the darker channels of my amp. I remember when I bought mine, my concern was mids as a maple neck-thru guitar tends to be very middy and the EQ suggests the Holydiver is also very middy but I needn't have worried. I like it enough that a Holydiver is going in the bridge of my PRS SE Custom 24 too and that's mahogany but I have no qualms at all. I'll get it open poled this time and get a 550k pot for it but that's really just to enhance what will already be a great sound. You can always send them back if you don't like it but I can't imagine that will be the case. I look forward to reading a review.
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Thanks so much.
I'll be getting the Holy Diver soon then I hope :)
I'll be sure too post my opinions on it as soon as I fit it in.
Thanks for the help.
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Well, after simply not being able to bring myself to buy either pickups because my brain said rebel yell but my guts said holy diver I ended up emailing Tim for a bit of advice. I explained my situation a bit better than I have here and then I apologised for the long email. Nonetheless, he replied only a few hours later saying:
"without hesitation, Holydiver bridge and Emerald neck.
The soundclips on the website were all recorded using the same LP Custom(which generally sounds a little darker than a Standard).
I use this combo now in 2 of my main live LPs(one Standard and one Custom) and the tone/balance of the two is excellent. I also have started using this combination in my main recording Vee - mahogany with a carved maple top - again excellent results not just for driven tones but cleans too and very responsive to volume pot changes.".
A so, I went ahead to order the Holy Diver Bridge and Emerald Neck because I figure that it'd be foolish to argue with Tim's advice! Anyway, after lots of sampling different looks on an exact clone of my guitar on SC Guitar Editor, I got them in Reverse Zebra and I really looking forward to their arrival!!
I also bought:
2 BKP 550k pots for the volume controls
1 CTS 500k pot for the neck tone control
1 CTS 500k Push Pull pot for bridge coil-splitting and tone controls
2 Jensen 22n Capacitors
I meant to get 2 push-pulls so that I could split both pickups but I made a mistake and I can't see a way to fix it on the BKP site so I might just buy a DiMarzio 500k Push-Pull for the neck tone and keep the CTS for the neck in my box of spares.
Unfortunately I can't just do a master coil split because you need a special kinda pot for that :(
No matter, even if I don't get the DiMarzio Push-Pull I don;t think I would've used the neck coil split much anyway. 4.5k is just a bit too weak.
Anyway, thank for all your help guys and I'll be sure to post feedback and pics when the pickups arrive!!! SOOO EXCITED!!!!!!! Ok, I'll stop, I'm beginning to sound like a 10 year old girl!
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I'm really looking forward to a good, detailed review of both pickups :D
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I'm really looking forward to a good, detailed review of both pickups :D
+1! You owe us that much after a 5 page thread PDT_003
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Hahaha, don't worry. As you can probably tell by now, short posts don't work for me, I need to make long posts!
I'll be sure to write a very good and long review for you guys, I owe it to you!
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Well, I just got an email saying that the pickups have been dispatched and I am now super excited and TBH I'm not even feeling one bit nervous (which may come as a surprise seeing as for most of this thread I was nervously comparing pickups and worrying about my choices)!
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I'll be ordering my Holydiver/Emerald set within the week :D
Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
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Sounds great! I'd love to hear how you like then in your PRS too!
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Seems to be a pretty effective combo from what I hear
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I have RY's in a korina bolt-on LP and they sound stellar. Very well rounded. Plenty of output to play metal, but they roll back really well. The center coil split on them is great too.
One pup bridge I really want to try is the HD though. Sounds like you likely are picking an amazing combo :)
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Thanks! If I get a PRS SE245 in the future (which I hope to do) ill almost certainly get the RR neck/RY bridge set for it.
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Good call!