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Author Topic: Which BKP is closest to...  (Read 14412 times)

Brow

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2012, 12:39:20 PM »
I had a set of Duncan SH1s/59s in my Gibby Les Paul for a bit and absolutely hated them. I found them far too bassy and boomy and far too scooped.

I swapped them 1st for a set of Duncan Seth Lovers (which I liked alot) and now have a set of BKP Mules and I couldn't be happier.

Is there any reason in particular you don't just want to go for the Emerald neck and get a pickup that you know will match the bridge tonally?
Selling lots of gear, enquire within!......

ericsabbath

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2012, 12:50:16 PM »
Hmm. I really liked Doug Aldrich's tone as well as Warren DeMartini's and and Dimebag's but i thought that Warren's was slightly to trebly for what i use and Dimebag's tone (although nice) is just much heavier than what i'll ever play.
I did find that Aldrich's tone (and all of the rest of the guitarists that you've linked me to) is a bit too saturated and compressed. I understand that this isn't the case with BKPs. Right?
I understand that the holy diver is based on doug aldrich's sound or is at least very similar. would that be correct?

Also, doesn't Doug Aldrich use Suhr pickups? If i remember correctly they made him a signature set.

Anyway, from what i hear that the Holy Diver is meant to sound like it's winning i think. but the rebel yell doesn't seem like it would be a bad choice.

they use very saturated amps and boosters, so you wouldn't worry about excessive saturation, if you set your equipment for your tastes
the diver was based on early Vivian Campbell's tones on first Dio album, which was actually using a ceramic dimarzio
but then, there's the story... the original BKP holy diver later became the cold sweat model
the "new" version (which is already 6 years old) is loosely based on the duncan JB, with alnico 5 and a hotter winding, and was one of the rebel yell prototypes for Steve Stevens

Doug, which was also Dio's guitarist 2 decades later, had duncans (custom custom, I think) and then suhr pickups, which are in the same ballpark, but hotter
Vivian also became a duncan JB user from late 80's until today
Jake was a JB user as well
they actually didn't have much choice
90% of 80's players had to choose between the duncan jb, dimarzio super distortion or keeping stock cr@ppy pickups
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

itamar101

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2012, 01:10:26 PM »
Ok. That seems promising. How well does the Holy Diver clean up? That might be a deciding factor against the rebel yell.
Also, which pickup is "ballsier"? I want a full and ballsy but clear tone.
What do you think about a neck VHII. After surfing the forums a bit i've read good stuff about it. How does it suit my needs in comparison to a riff raff?

And earlier you said that the Holy Diver "sounds sooo much better for distortion with the right pedals". Did you mean that it sounds better boosted with a good pedal than plugged straight into an amp? I'm not to fond of boost pedals and i'm  certainly not fond of the excessive noise that you get when using one + i think that they just make a mess with the tone.

If thats the case then would i be better off with the rebel yell?

itamar101

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2012, 01:16:33 PM »
I had a set of Duncan SH1s/59s in my Gibby Les Paul for a bit and absolutely hated them. I found them far too bassy and boomy and far too scooped.

I swapped them 1st for a set of Duncan Seth Lovers (which I liked alot) and now have a set of BKP Mules and I couldn't be happier.

Is there any reason in particular you don't just want to go for the Emerald neck and get a pickup that you know will match the bridge tonally?

From all of the demos that I've seen of the Emerald (I admit that there aren't many that i could even find) the emerald just seems too thin sounding. Not enough balls or fullness. It seems like it'd be good for Guns N Roses like lead tones but to be honest the tones that i liked from guns n roses were Izzy's rythm tones. They were much fuller sounding than slash's harsh lead tones.


darkbluemurder

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2012, 01:46:50 PM »
How well does the Holy Diver clean up? That might be a deciding factor against the rebel yell.
Also, which pickup is "ballsier"? I want a full and ballsy but clear tone.
What do you think about a neck VHII. After surfing the forums a bit i've read good stuff about it. How does it suit my needs in comparison to a riff raff?

IMHO the RY cleans up better than the HD but both do that well.

What do you mean by "ballsier"? More oomph? Probably the HD - I have not played them in the same guitar.

The neck VHII is a very nice pickup with tight lows, slightly dark mids and good highs. I don't have a direct comparison to any other BKP neck as it's the only BKP I tried in the guitar it's in.

Cheers Stephan

itamar101

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2012, 06:03:16 PM »
Yes, I did mean more oomph.
I think I'll stick with the Riff Raff neck.

I'd still like an answer from Eric in reference to the statement that the holy diver sounded better with a boost pedal or something. The question is in one of my recent posts.

Anyway, thanks so much for the help so far guys.

itamar101

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2012, 11:47:15 AM »
Any help?
I really want to order these as soon as possible but i don't want to 100 pounds for a certain pickups if i can get another that is better for my needs and the same price.
I really want to make sure that i'm getting the perfect pickup for myself and i still have some insecurities that i'd love to have answered.

I'm just worried cos this thread seems to be going down the page very quickly and i still dont have the answers that i want.

So, anyway, this post is basically just to bump my thread up in hope of getting my questions answered before my thread get lost in the pile of other threads.

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2012, 12:46:50 PM »
Perhaps that's because we're saying the same things again and again and you're quite naturally having some last minute hesitations. I fully understand as it's a lot of money and I go through the same thing but the reality is that for the bridge, it seems your best choices are Rebel Yell and Holydiver. If you want it brighter and tighter you need the Rebel Yell and if you'd rather have it warmer and more mids then go for the Holydiver. There's not a lot else that can be said. I'd say the Holydiver but then I may be biased because that's what I have and I love it. I like the bridge humbucker to be thick, fluid and smooth and in the Jackson I want it to go from Classic Rock to modern Metal and it will do that just fine. I contacted Tim about a pickup for my mahogany PRS that would run from clean and Blues to 80's Metal so that between 2 guitars I could cover everything and I expected him to say VHII or Abraxas but guess what - he suggested the Holydiver for the PRS too! This really is a VERY versatile pickup.

As for the neck pickup, regardless of what is said you seem to keep coming back to the Riff Raff. Again, for my mahogany PRS I told Tim I wanted the lovely creamy tone that Dave Murray of Iron Maiden had on the earlier albums when he was using a DiMarzio PAF neck humbucker and he said that while the Cold Sweat neck was the obvious choice, he preferred the Emerald neck for that tone and thought it was the best possible match for the Holydiver bridge. For my money, you can't argue with that but the choice is yours.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

itamar101

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2012, 01:20:46 PM »
Thanks a lot.
It's just that one post about the holy diver sounding better with a boost or something. I'm not exactly sure what Eric meant by that post and I'd really like to know cos i have no intention of using a boost or a tubescreamer. I'm not gonna be able to afford one for a while and i don't really like them anyway.
The thing holding me back from buying the emerald neck is the lack of video clips of it. It would practically be throwing 100 into the unknown and hoping for the best.

Is the Holy Diver totally loose or does have some tightness. I don't want my notes to fly all over the place but neither do I want them to be too saturated and compressed. As long as the Holy Diver is reasonably tight I think that I'll go for it but it worries me that in order for it too sound the best it needs to be boosted. What are your experiences with in in that matter?

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2012, 01:42:26 PM »
The Holydiver is plenty tight enough and I have a cover on mine. For the HD you need to focus on words like 'thick', 'fluid', 'smooth' and 'warm' etc. but thick and fluid doesn't mean loose. My JB could get loose and flubby but the Holydiver never does and it's very responsive to small changes. Pickup height affects the tone quite a bit and I once experimented with DR Hi-Beam strings instead of my usual Tite Fits and the difference was far more pronounced than I expected and it was certainly the pickup that helped to bring that out because the difference wasn't as pronounced on my other guitar. It is a highly articulate pickup. I also don't think it needs to be boosted to sound its best; it depends on the tone you're after. I've had my Holydiver for a while now and never used a boost and it's been fine. The best pickup I've ever used by far. The only reason I've just bought an overdrive to go with it is because there are times (not always) when I'd like a little more saturation in the tone and the pedal will facilitate that. If you don't want that heavily saturated tone, simply don't use an overdrive. I prefer to think of it as a measure of how versatile the pickup is as opposed to any limitation. Honestly mate, I'd be amazed if you didn't rate it as I've never heard anyone say a bad word about the Holydiver.

As for the neck pickup, it's always going to be a bit of a shot in the dark until you get it in your own guitar but consider a few things for a moment:

1) How many people have said it's a great neck pickup?
2) How many people have said it's cr@p?
3) Tim rates it VERY highly in the neck of a mahogany guitar.
4) An Emerald neck paired with a Holydiver bridge is a combination Tim rates very highly as he said to me: 'If you love the Dave Murray neck tone then Cold Sweat neck is the natural choice as it's very much in the ballpark although I personally love the Emerald neck in conjunction with the HD.'

It seems to me that Tim knows more about pickups than anyone else on here by a considerable margin and he's tried them all in numerous guitars and with numerous amps. If he tells me that he loves the Emerald neck pickup, especially in conjunction with a Holydiver bridge, then that's a combination to go for. A wise person told me many years ago that only a fool ignores free expert advice and it's something I've tried to live by ever since. Tim tells me that I need a Holydiver, even when I was thinking something else was better and I'll buy a Holydiver. He tells me the Emerald is the best option to go with it in the neck then that's what I'll buy. Keep life simple and I really don't think you'll be disappointed :)
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

itamar101

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2012, 02:05:53 PM »
Thanks so much!
I think that I'll get an Emerald Neck and a Holy Diver Bridge.
Also what music do you play?

Thanks so much for the help.
 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Now for the desicion of whether to get a cover or not. If i do it'll be gold and if not I'll have to replace the rims with something thats looks better than black with black.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of covers?

I feel so annoying, I'm really sorry.

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2012, 03:15:26 PM »
Not at all  :D

There's a really good BKP tutorial on You Tube about the difference between covered and open poled pickups:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D756154qUdo

The difference should be obvious once you listen to it but basically a pickup without a cover will cut through a bit better while a covered one will be a bit rounder. I have a cover on my Holydiver in the Jackson but that's partly because it's maple neck-thru with alder wings so a bit brighter than your guitar. In the PRS, which is a bit darker being mahogany, I'll be getting it open poled. In your shoes I'd obviously therefore be going without a cover but it's personal preference. If you don't want black pickups with black pickup rings, why don't you use cream pickup rings and get a zebra set? Depends on the colour of your guitar I suppose and I mention it for no better reason than the fact that I'm going to use zebras in mine and I really like the look.

By the way, although at my age my natural home is 80's Metal (hence my love of the Holydiver), I play in a covers band so my guitars do need to cover a range. We do songs ranging from Steve Harley and the Doobie Brothers, through Free and Lynard Skynard to Black Sabbath and Guns 'n' Roses as well as modern material like Foo Fighters, Kasabian etc. It's quite a mix and the Holydiver sounds good with them all. I'll grant you it's most at home with Classic Rock and 80's Metal but it honestly is very versatile.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

itamar101

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2012, 04:36:02 PM »
I really like zebra coils with any colour of rings but I just like covers more. That being said, I'm obviously willing to sacrifice a bit of looks for something that will be better suited to what I want.

I just wish that open coils matched with the studios colours as well as they do with les paul standards. Anyway, I'll have to make a desicion someday and I'll probably end up with zebra coils :D

itamar101

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2012, 05:13:09 PM »
Actually, what are your opinions on a Tremonti style Covered neck and open coil bridge except with a gold cover?
It'll be on a fireburst les Paul studio (they are much prettier than pictures would suggest :) )

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Which BKP is closest to...
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2012, 05:25:18 PM »
Got any pictures?

I largely got a cover on mine because I was bored with having pickups without covers but in all honesty I'm not bothered any more. Out of all the covers offered, there's not much that really appeals to me. Chrome, nickel and gold can look good and I quite like the black cover on mine but for all four, it depends on the guitar. I love the burnt chrome look but it wouldn't have worked on my Jackson and while I think it would be fine on the PRS, I think it would sound better in that guitar without a cover. I can't say I'm that keen on any of the other covers. I have tried a black battleworn as the picture of the Painkiller looks great on the website but in reality it just looked a mess. If/when the cover on my Jackson becomes worn or damaged, I'll ask BKP to remove it and I wouldn't pay to get another one fitted.

I don't like the Tremonti look myself but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think either cream coils or zebra would look fine but I think zebra is cooler.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite