Username: Password:

Author Topic: Pickups for Gibson '09 SG - Punk HardCore & RapCore Tone !  (Read 11612 times)

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Pickups for Gibson '09 SG - Punk HardCore & RapCore Tone !
« on: December 09, 2017, 01:44:41 AM »
Hi everybody !

First post on this Forum !

So...

I love Clapton's Tone on Sunshine of Your Love, The "Woman Tone" born on Disraeli's Gears, Cream's second LP.

Clapton play a '64 SG...
I play a '09 SG...with he the most mismatched set of the World : Gibson 490R // 498T.

I need to upgrade w/BK pickups !
And if possible a calibrated set !

Please, help me !

Nota Bene : I love Damned's Tone too and punk tone...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 03:01:20 PM by SämO »
Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"

Dave Sloven

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4252
    • Get our album here (alnico Black Hawks)
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2017, 03:22:16 AM »
VHII set might be a good compromise here in an SG.
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

Telerocker

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7422
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2017, 07:44:05 AM »
Mules and a tubescreamer in front of the amp for punk.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2017, 10:46:59 AM »
Mules and a tubescreamer in front of the amp for punk.

Thanks TeleRocker !
I feel Mules are better in LP's maker than in a SG 's maker.
I'm right ?

ThX !
Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2017, 11:32:08 AM »
VHII set might be a good compromise here in an SG.

Thanks a lot Dave Sloven !
You're my Man  :afro:

In fact, I play most "Punk Tone" like "The Damned", "G.B.H." and "Punk Hardcore" like "Bad Brains" and "Body Count" than "Woman Tone".
But I really like the "Woman Tone".

So, the question is essentially one of compromise.

I don't know about the VHII.
In France, NailBomb mounted in a SG is highly recommended for "Punk and Hardcore".

I know that Riff Raff is highly recommended for SG's lutherie but it's maybe too "Vintage" for me.

I would hope that that information is used to reduce the information to the lowest common denominator to find the right set for the right SG !

ThX Everybody and Love from France  :wink:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 11:33:53 AM by SämO »
Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"

Dave Sloven

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4252
    • Get our album here (alnico Black Hawks)
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2017, 02:34:41 PM »
I have used a Nailbomb in a 2011 SG Standard and while it certainly nailed the mid-period Exploited tone and the Poison Idea tone it couldn't do much else.  The guitar was just too aggressive in the mids. I replaced a 490R/498T set like yours and honestly I think I was happier with the 498T. I had it paired with a Cold Sweat neck which in that guitar didn't seem to pair very well with the A-Bomb bridge. I think this is because the A-Bomb's middiness and hairiness was just so pronounced in my SG Standard.

I tried then a Cold Sweat bridge and it was much better, more balanced, with still a lot of power, a much more versatile guitar.  The VHII has been used successfully in SGs and from what I can tell of the bridge pickup it is close to being an alnico version of the Cold Sweat, with more mids but not so much as to be overpowering in an SG. The VHII neck has a dark, warm tone which I think will help you get that Clapton thing.

Overall I think it has the best chance of being a good compromise that will do everything you want with aplomb.  If you need slightly more push sometimes you could just turn on a tubescreamer as a boost (depending on your amp).

I would probably stick with the stock pots and wiring at first and see how it goes with just the pickup change.
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 12:34:55 AM »
Thanks a lot for your advices Dave Sloven !
You're a Great Master and your experience is like the Holy Bible for me !

-->I love the Poison Idea's tone on "Kings Of Punk" :)!

Like you, I don't hate the 498T but I really want to updrage my tone.
The 490R is horrible and I really want a great set.

Mostly, I play JTM45, Ampeg GVT and in a new project a Jet City JCA50 which is a cheap Soldano SLO.
Mostly, I play V30.

I love to play straight in amp.
No OD - No Fuzz - No Boost : Just Volume & Tone Knobs !

I never find a Boost that just PUNCH my sound.
No volume up, no coloration, no distorsion, just PUNCH MY LINE  :afro:!
If you know a Punch Line Boost, give me this tip !

Somethimes I use a ParaEQ, in front or in FX but I'm never very happy with that.
I just want to punch my line  :afro:!

If I had a FX Loop, I use a Flanger for crazy riff and a Slap Back Delay for a bigger sound.

In band, I mostly play Punk or Speed/Hardcore line.
Solo, I love to play any stuff, like "Brown Sound", "Woman Tone", "Jangly Tone".

Honestly, I don't know about Cold Sweat, VHII, Miracle Man or NailBomb.
The only BK pickup I known is The Mule and I'm not a big fan of true vintage tone.

I've always think that calibrated set is better but if you tell me to choose differents pickups, I'm OK !

Again, I would hope that news informations are used to reduce the information to the lowest common denominator to find the Right Set for the Right SG !

ThX Everybody and Love from France
Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"

Dave Sloven

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4252
    • Get our album here (alnico Black Hawks)
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 10:34:09 AM »
My setup is similar to yours.  I have a Peavey 6534+ (which is based on a Soldano in many ways) and use V30 412 cabs. I rely on the lead channel without much by way of effects before the front of the amp.  I do have a lot of effects in my loop at the moment because I play in a doom band and use a lot of reverb and delays, but when I was in a punk band I just had a 10-band EQ in the loop and a noise suppressor and arguably I didn't need those.  I do have an EVH Flanger and it has been in my loop but now I am experimenting with it out front for a more subtle effect.

My main guitar in the punk band was an SG Junior with a Stockholm P-90, and I very occasionally used an SG Special with an alnico Warpig set.  The Stockholm was able to get a really nasty Discharge vibe.

Personally I tend to think that you might be happiest with a Miracle Man.  That's what I currently have in my SG Standard.  Alternatively the Cold Sweat or the VHII.  In my experience the Nailbomb was a bit much and it wasn't a very good lead pickup.  Of the three the Miracle Man bridge might be the best lead pickup.  I have a Cold Sweat neck and quite like it but you might also like the VHII or the Emerald.  I would contact BKP directly and ask for some advice. Another neck pickup set worth considering is the Ragnarok neck.  A Miracle Man / Ragnarok combo might work very nicely in an SG

You should get long legs on the bridge.  Check your string spacing.  I have a 50mm bridge on most of my Gibsons but it is actually a bit narrow for the bridges I eventually fitted (TonePros Nashville bridges) so when I ordered the MM I got it in 53mm.  If you can get the neck pickup with short legs I would do that as it will give you more down travel and you don't need the long legs in the neck position.



BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2017, 05:36:11 AM »
Thanks a lot for your advices Dave Sloven !
You're a Great Man  :afro: !

And yeah, similar setup Dude !
 
The Jet City JCA50 is realy awesome ! And I have several more expensive amps...
The 412 is actualy loaded w/Vet30 (Bottom) & V30 (Top).
I play w/11-53 Thomastik Power Brights and Dunlop Jazz III XL.

Flanger is like a "Signature" for a few riffs...Love this sound !
You think EVH Flanger is the best Flanger on the Market for "Punk/Hardcore Riff" ?
I'm always looking for the Right One !

I love to use EQ, in the loop or front : Love to shape my "Dirty Sound" w/it.
Actually I use an Empress ParaEQ w/Boost.
The Boost is a very interresting option : A "2 in 1" Stompbox.

Usualy, I use a Strymon DIG. But sometimes, I try different Delay...
I have several Delay :) ! I Love it too !

I did not try to a Noise Gate in Loop. Maybe I should ?
What Noise Gte are you currently using ? ISP, Boss, MXR ?

I know that I need a Jr w/Stockholm or SuperMassive.
SG Style or LP Style, I don't know what will be best for my sound.

And Dude, I also love Discharge especially "Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing" LP.

To get back to the SG pickups, I'm not a lead guitarist.
I'm a Rythm Man.
I love groovy bass line, I love tight and metallic bass line.
I love loud bass line in a mix.

I have no idea about Miracle Man, Ragnarok, Cold Sweat, VHII or Emerald...
I just know that Bare Knuckle produces great pickups for our syles !
And I just know that I have a good "Player" SG : I'm the third owner and this SG did dozen concerts.

I trust you to help me in this difficult choice of pickups !
Love "Brown Sound", "Woman Tone", and I need a set capable of cutting through the mix.
And play in Punk Band !
Is not easy for a  SG !

Again, I would hope that news informations are used to reduce the information to the lowest common denominator to find the Right Set for the Right Sound !

ThX Everybody and Love from France
Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"

Dave Sloven

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4252
    • Get our album here (alnico Black Hawks)
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2017, 08:42:26 AM »
I have the ISP Decimator G-String II in the loop, right after an MXR 10-band EQ.  It was expensive.

The EVH Flanger is good; it is basically the same as the M-117 but with an EVH switch that gives you EVH's sound straight away.  It can do a wide range of sounds, including the 'chorus' type effect on the early Cure records that was actually a M-117.

Any flanger with four knobs is going to be more versatile.  Remember that all of the big MXR pedals require 18V, which can be a pain.

On my rhythm sound I really only use an MXR Black Label Chorus (their Analog Chorus is very similar) sometimes (for intros) and an EarthQuaker devices reverb pedal.  The delays, pitch-shifter, flanger etc are just there for leads and noise outros.  I never used any of that stuff when I was the rhythm guitarist in a two-guitar punk band.

I think the three bridge pickups that are going to work for you are the VHII, Cold Sweat, and Miracle Man.  Keep in mind that these are in order of ascending scoopiness and output.

As far as neck pickups are concerned you clearly want one of the darker ones but you also need to keep in mind the balance with the bridge pickup.  SGs do tend to like a more powerful bridge pickup but the MM/CS combo in my SG is a bit on the cusp of being unbalanced and I had to bring the neck pickup up close to the strings.

Ultimately if I were you I would decide on which of those three bridge pickups sounds best to you from the clips and then ask BKP (via email) which neck pickup will match best with the bridge pickup and do the tones you want it to do


BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

Telerocker

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7422
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2017, 07:38:39 PM »
Mules and a tubescreamer in front of the amp for punk.

Thanks TeleRocker !
I feel Mules are better in LP's maker than in a SG 's maker.
I'm right ?

ThX !

I have Mules in an all mahogany Saint Blues Mississippi Bluesmaster and they sound glorious. The idea that Mules won't do in an SG is imo wrong. If you want the woman tone don't go RiffRaffs or VHII's.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 07:40:35 AM »
Thanks a lot for your advices Dave Sloven !
You're my Man  :afro:!

I think I don't really need a Noise Gate.

I really need a good Flanger and now I hesitate between MXR 117R and EVH Flanger.
I don't like the finish of EVH, so if the only difference is the incorporation of a VH Sound Switch, I think going M117-R that I hope it will give me the "VH Sound" too w/his 4 knobs.

I like Earthquaker Devices, I have a Dipsatch Master and it4s a good Reverb/Delay : 2 in 1 box !

To get back to the SG pickups, and as ypu suggest, I will ask BKP  via email which neck pickup will match best with the bridge pickup and do the tones you want it to do.

Currently I am totally lost, I read and listened all your references.
I'm not a big fan a ceramic pickups, so I don't want a ceremic bridge.

Currently a set oh VHII and a set of Emerald are the first.

Again, I would hope that news informations are used to reduce the information to the lowest common denominator to find the Right Set for the Right Sound !

ThX Everybody and Love from France Dave Sloven

Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 08:01:16 AM »
Dave, this is the mail :

Dear BKP Team,

I posted some posts on the forum BKP to consider a change pickup's of my Gibson SG Full Mahogany.

Here the link of the topic : https://forum.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/index.php?topic=35036.0

Dave Sloven gave me some valuable advice.
It's a great Man !

Could you help me to define the Set that will best fit my specifications ?

Again, I would hope that news informations are used to reduce the information to the lowest common denominator to find the Right Set for the Right Sound !

In advance thank you for your professionalism and your diligences.

A future customer,

Eloi from France
Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 04:26:22 PM »
The customer service is amazing !

I have already received an answer.

Here is the answer :

"For Clapton's early tone I recommend The Mules.
For classic punk I would go for the Riff Raff set.
I don't think you need to go any hotter based on what you've told me, and from reading the forum thread. 
Kind Regards,
Ben French"


And here is my new question:

"Thanks for this quick reply !

I don't like the tone of The Mule.
I only try it on a LP, and I don't like this "Muddy" Tone.
I know that "Woman Tone" need this, but I don't like this.

My first goal is my Punk/Hardcore Band.
Cover songs from early 70's (ex. The Damned), 80's (ex. Bad Brains) to 90's (ex. BodyCount).

I'm afraid that these Riff Raffs have the output level enough to cover this sound palette.

I contacted my luthier and my luthier tells me that pickups loaded medium high with more treble could satisfy me.
According to him, pickups loaded in high midrange and treble could make this guitar more nervous!
And erase the dark side of mahogany.

Again, I would hope that news informations are used to reduce the information to the lowest common denominator to find the Right Set for the Right Sound !

In advance thank you for your professionalism and your diligences."
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 04:28:24 PM by SämO »
Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"

SämO

  • Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Pickups for '09 SG - Woman Tone...But I love Punk Tone Too !
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2017, 04:30:58 PM »

I have Mules in an all mahogany Saint Blues Mississippi Bluesmaster and they sound glorious. The idea that Mules won't do in an SG is imo wrong. If you want the woman tone don't go RiffRaffs or VHII's.

TeleRocker, you're right !
BKP Team loves The Mules too for "Woman Tone" !
Eddie Cabot : "You don't believe in tipping ?"