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Author Topic: UK Passport holders  (Read 10275 times)

38thBeatle

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UK Passport holders
« on: April 27, 2006, 08:57:03 PM »
If this is inappropriate and too political please feel free to delete but I thought that I would refer you to a web site I stumbled upon.

 http://www.renewforfreedom.org/index.html

Some will have strong views for and some against and some won't care either way. That is the beauty of freedom of choice.
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willo

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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2006, 09:18:09 PM »
Well, I could do with a new passport photo anyway :)

RE: the ID cards. My lecturer was going all Romantic on me, pleading 'Don't let yourself become a number!'. And I just pointed out that, he didn't know my name, but he sure as hell will know my student number. We are, in many ways, viewed and recognised by many many places and agencies by numbers: policy numbers, flight numbers, seat tickets, car registration number, account numbers and so on. So I'm really not fazed by this at all. Which is a complete surprise to me - normally I'm very much against measures like ID cards. But this time, I don't really care. Not for it, not against it, just accepting the inevitability of a move towards that kind of society.

For what it's worth, though, I think it way to simple to start quoting Orwell; that's just lazy to me. An ID card is not going to make this a totalitarian state. As I say, the move towards identification by statistics has already happened - it happened with the boom of computer databases in the 80's. An ID card is just a permanent personal reminder of that, in your wallet.
The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away...

jt

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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2006, 11:34:30 PM »
:D

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I take a different tack to Willo. I think this in many ways is the final straw. No govenment or political agency has any right to know what i like, want , believe or where i go or with whom. My private life is exactly that private. I accept that i`m under survallence alot of times due to cameras & other anti crime measures. By the way this utter F***ing cr@p was sold to the "Lemons" known as the general public as gauranteed to stop crime. It hasn`t it just videos the crimes being commited. This isnt going to fight crime or terrorism either. Just for the record one of the biggest reasons that the 9-11 bombers where able to board the aircraft they crashed into buildings was because they all had ID cards ! Every criminal i know & hear of is dying for these things to be brought in, it`ll give them one single solitary card they need to fraud & they will make millions. Every illegal immigrant in the country will be after paying good money to have one of these things & it won't stop or prevent a single crime or a single terroist act. The London bombers were all British....They would have had ID cards !!!!!!  This is about politicians wanting to know where you are, Who you're with, what you read, what you say, what you believe.

 :D  8)
God I could do with a Gin & Tonic !

indysmith

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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2006, 11:52:01 PM »
This is horrible. I don't want to be tracked, i don't need to be tracked, i don't want my life to be an open book for the government, or whoever else gets their hands on it! this is a huge invasion of privacy. I'd prefer a new law saying security cameras were allowed in public toilets to be disturbingly honest.
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38thBeatle

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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 09:01:47 AM »
I also know of the NO2ID campaign. It has an agenda of course and other may have differing views but do your own research and make up your minds.Sadly we don't get a say in it unless you count General Elections.
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Afghan Dave

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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 01:04:22 PM »
Trust me that there is a difference between opting to hold a "licence to" say drive / hold a credit card / join a loyalty scheme and the weight of the proposed ID card scheme.

Isaiah Berlin - Freedom to vs. freedom from

As some of you may know I am British but born in Afghanistan and at one point I was detained by U.S. immigration, held and questioned for 7 hours / supplied all the biometric data demanded / had copies of my credit cards taken and then finally placed on the Homeland Security Register when entering the USA on holiday.

Despite a sworn statement of my intention to visit the Caribbean during my holiday my honest attempts to comply with all the 30/40 page legal documentation failed because upon my return to Miami seaport I was detained for 9 hours / bailed and given 48 hours to leave the USA.  

I cleared all of this mess up with the US embassy back in London (who were as surprised as I was at my experience) and I now have a full Visa to re-enter the USA fixed in my passport.

I still love the USA and canít wait to go back (my Dadís a citizen) but I now need this Visa and the passport it is fixed into.

I never thought that my British passport would be turned against me in such a way. I will fight ID cards by all legal means and if that fails I'll have to leave. As a proud Brit that is the last thing I ever want to do but sadly

People Get The Government They Deserve
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willo

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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2006, 01:33:07 PM »
My point wasn't so much meant to draw parallels between credit cards & ID cards - except for the fact that it dispels any sense of Romantic myth about loss of individuality - but more that we are so far down this road already that I find it hard to get any more dispirited. I read in the paper the other day that the UK has the largest database of Biometric data in the world (comparative to population, I guess), so whatever my opinions on ID cards I'm just not particularly shocked or outraged to see this is where we are now.  :)
The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away...

Dakine

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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2006, 02:16:39 PM »
Once again I am now even more excited to return "home", lol.
The US is NO better right now. Actually both countries are barking mad!
Today it is slated that immigrants (Mexicans) are to STRIKE for better rights!
The US National Anthem is being translated to Mexican Spanish (and the words are quite different in translation).
It is now deemed unlawful in some States to say "God" in the pledge of allegiance, as it is deemed too "white".
Basically it's ALL gone mad I reckon.
When I was growing up (even in the village) you SAW a Policeman. And if caught misbehaving (i.e. Scrumping) you got a good cuff around the ear and marched home to face ya folks.
Now what do we have? Camera's trying to film "hoodies" and then saying, "oh is'nt it awful, we should ban hooded sweatshirts!". Patrol the F$*$ING Streets and POUND on the Lil Ignorant No Good BAS$@*DS!!!!!!!!!
No, the world (western) has gone largely SOFT and SCARED to hurt anyones feelings. They rely upon the good upstanding citizens to do what they are asked/told and those which have NO intention of complying with ANY law and just want to live off the people and pursue lawless lives continue!
At least over her I legally own a GUN to protect myself,my property,my family and INNOCENT persons. This is not a solution of  course as violence (especially when you are a normal law abiding citizen) usually causes you more grief than the perpetrator but it does level the playing field just a little.
OK, better quit now as my blood pressure is WAY up again.
I want the world back to when I was a kid!
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HTH AMPS

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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2006, 04:28:18 PM »
Quote

People Get The Government They Deserve


exactly, as Weller put it - "The public gets what the public wants", we can all sit here whining but how many of us will actually DO something to register our feelings (I'm as guilty as anyone else here on this matter)

 :evil:

sambo

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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2006, 06:33:55 PM »
Im not for ID cards at all... but i think people need to calm down...

i dont see what the fuss is about...?

OH NO! government agencies are gonna know where you live!!!! blah blah

it sounds to to me like all the stuff thats gonna be on these cards can be obtained by whose going to have access to them anyway. basically what im trying to say is... i dont think these cards are a BAD thing, but they're just POINTLESS...

now obviously, i dont know all the details of the cards (but i doubt hardly anyone on here does anyway) so i could be wrong, and the cards may be the downfall of the UK but i highly doubt it. everyones so sinicle nowadays...

oh and what Nick said about the government being too scared to hurt anyones feelings- +1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and do you know what played a big part in that? the massive influx of immigrants/new religions entering the UK... everyones so worried to say/do anything that could be accused of being racist/discriminative towards a muslim/jew/christian/black person/whatever... its stupid.... im not saying we should all be racist or anything stupid, but its ridiculous... i cant explain it all... but a summary = this:

ID CARDS:
dont see what the fuss is about... Invasion of privacy? dont agree with that at all...

GOVERNMENT/CRIME:
this may offend some people, but dont take it in the wrong way-
people cannot just come into this country and expect to get their own way about everything (or expect to be pampered and protected like litt children, they have to face the law/government like the rest of us)- i.e, when a law gets applied to them they accuse the government of being discriminative/racist towards them or whatever... same for any particular group/ethnicity....

i cant explain what im trying to say.... so ill give up now...

Dakine

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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2006, 06:49:16 PM »
I can put it in a few words from this side of the pond (and am NOT now or brought up to be racist in any way shape or form, just FAIR).

How come in US there is a Black American Month, there is no German Immigrant Month, Caucasian Month, Spanish Month etc.

By the year 2015 or summit close, Spanish will be the #1 language in USA. And this is not just "oh well". All signs here are in English/Spanish, All phone services (i.e. call for info. etc.) are in Spanish/English.

Houston alone has a 30% increase in murder in the first quarter 2006, mostly attributed to Mexican gangs.

Basically, if ya move to france, they aint gonna placate you with English everywhere, they will expect you to speak French!

I mean, if you enter a country, abide by it's customs and laws or F**K OFF back to ya own country!

I could write a book on this cr@p.

But who is ultimately to blame? The citizens of the country, who vote and live with this cr@p.

I smell REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!  :twisted:
"Do not go gentle.........Rage"

Searcher

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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2006, 06:51:22 PM »
Quote from: Dakine
Now what do we have? Camera's trying to film "hoodies" and then saying, "oh is'nt it awful, we should ban hooded sweatshirts!". Patrol the F$*$ING Streets and POUND on the Lil Ignorant No Good BAS$@*DS!!!!!!!!!
No, the world (western) has gone largely SOFT and SCARED to hurt anyones feelings. They rely upon the good upstanding citizens to do what they are asked/told and those which have NO intention of complying with ANY law and just want to live off the people and pursue lawless lives continue!


Police have gone soft probably because of lawyers.  What's the point in arresting someone who takes you to court and probably gets off?  And there's no money in that for the politicians either, which is why the cops are encouraged to chase mostly law-abiding citizens.  It was really bad when I was last in Australia.  If you call a cop and say your house is being broken into you can wait for half a day before a lone patrol car will show up, but drive down any highway and every 30 kms is a speed trap.

Law-abiding people will quietly pay their fines, while crims won't.  It is all about the money, just like everything else these days.  :(

You guys can fight new identiy requirements all you like, but that won't change anything.  Sorry, but how many people were against , say, the latest war in Iraq?  How many countries had hundreds of thousands of protestors?  Quite a few.  And it changed nothing.  </cynicism>
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sambo

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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2006, 06:58:30 PM »
"I mean, if you enter a country, abide by it's customs and laws or F**K OFF back to ya own country!"

im with you all the way on that Nick... i dont have a problem with immgrants at all... but if your gonna go and live in another country... you cant just impose your way of life on theirs... it pisses me off...

and yeah mark, your completely right, lawyers help get people off e.t.c... ...stupid...

and again, im with you mark on the "its not gonna make any difference" thing...  oh and about the war just now that you mentioned it... is anyone else on here for the war? i am.....

Dakine

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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2006, 07:02:35 PM »
You are quite right!
I am/was horrified at the total lack of "Bobbies" on the beat when I was last back in UK (past two times).
Visually they ARE a deterant, wether legal mumbo jumbo or not, beat walking has it's merits.
I could (but won't) get quite cutting with remarks about certain countries stampeding to a fight (sometimes lost cause) when the citizens of said country don't even know where the darn place is they are fighting!
Govt.s run on Arms and Oil, just a fact.
It seems to me though (nothing to do with these ID card things, heck phones have been monitored from Cheltenam for donkey's years for instance) that the western countries are playing by rules that other countries (some also western) flaunt/ridicule or flatly break. This kinda makes the whole system abit,hmmmmm, pointless? LOL
If we take countries, instead of citizens, then why should the "law abiding" UK adhere to laws that France et all take NO notice of? All abit silly.
Now, can I do anything about it? NO
I cannot vote here, as not a citizen yet.
I WILL vote back in UK though!
And apart from keeping informed of things thats about all I can do.
Don't mean I like it though  :evil:
"Do not go gentle.........Rage"

Searcher

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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2006, 07:09:37 PM »
Nick, I lived in Brisbane, Australia for a few years while I studied useless cr@p at university.  The main police station in the centre of the city actually moved a few blocks down the road, because it was too violent for them where they were.  So they left and installed cameras, to watch people getting mugged from a safe distance.
Quote from: Sifu Ben
Aaagh! Help!!! The GAS!!! The GAS!!!!!!!!!!!!