Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: indysmith on October 28, 2007, 01:24:21 PM
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Maybe it's time for me to get rid of my JCM800? I love it to death, but it's VERY loud. Also - I've moved away from it a bit musically - when i got it i was really into playing quite high-gain, bright 80's rock and metal. Now I'm looking for a far more warm, rounded, lower-gain sound. More Warren Haynes or Angus Young than Mick Mars or Van Halen.
I still love the sound it's putting out, but i can't help getting the feeling that there's probably better things out there for me. I keep hearing Suhr Badgers, and Roccaforte 18Ws, and Dr Z Route 66s and the like, and creaming. I can't get sounds that warm and smooth and fat from the JCM800 - It's just too damn bright for that.
The thing is nowadays, being a student, if i got rid of the JCM800... what could i get as an alternative? I don't expect that the £400 - maybe £500 absolute max that I'd make from selling my beloved JCM would get me my dream set-up, or even anything close to the same league as it...
I also have a Peavey poweramp lying around which i could sell to bring my funds up to maybe £600 overall.
What can you guys reccommend me on this kind of budget? I'd prefer a combo amp (love my combos), but a head and 1x12 or even 2x12 is good too if you can fit it into the price range.
My thinking atm is in the Laney Lionheart, Cornford Harlequin, Orange TT, Zvex Nano kind of vein. However, i haven't tried ANY of these (at least for quite a while...), so i expect I'm going to have to go for a trip to denmark st. some time in the next few months.
Thanks a load for any help guys and gals!
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If it's very bright, why not change the speaker/s and see how that works? new preamp valves maybe? I would try everything possible before getting rid of it and spending more and more money.
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I heard the Lionheart's are nice amps, Laney have clips on their website and it sounds well nice.
Cornford are expensivo so you will need money but a few people have them on here and are very pleased with them and they sound awesome.
Everyone is raving about the TT at the moment and i have to admit it sounds great, but i'm not sure about it being a main amp, more of a second amp that you have fun on.
And the Zvex, heard a clip and it sounds awesome but could be the same worry as the TT that you might get bored of just that one thing that it does.
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If it's very bright, why not change the speaker/s and see how that works? new preamp valves maybe? I would try everything possible before getting rid of it and spending more and more money.
I've changed the speakers and the preamp valves, and am very happy with the results; but it is obviously still too loud, and it is still voiced like a jcm800 rather than the plexi i crave
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Use the low gain input ! (if you have the single channel version)
It will sound a lot more plexi like from that
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Use the low gain input ! (if you have the single channel version)
It will sound a lot more plexi like from that
yeah i have been. It still sounds a lot 'harder' than what i'm looking for. I want a much softer attack and warmer sound.
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I think it's best to sell it up as it's pretty loud and you don't like the sound as much, you can probs buy a good enough amp for the same price you sell your amp at. Best thing to do is to go try out a load and see what you like best.
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Get that Orange that you were saying sounded awesome :D
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I cant imagine a JCM800 not being able to produce a warm bluesy tone, my jcm800 has an allmost plexi like tone, never harsh, wel unless you boost the mids on it cranked.
It could be yours is modded, they did a 'higher gain' mod in the early days which kind of sounded like you describe.
Another option might be that you play a pure metal axe which probably will make your amp honk like crazy clean and cranked. A good amp will react to the characteristics of your guitar.
You probably know this allready, still think it should be one of these two things.
And by the way, i would never sell my JCM800, it will become harder to find a decent one, i cant imagine you will buy something better for that amount of cash.
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guys, my jcm800 is completely stock, been serviced by marshall just a few months ago. I've been playing a Greco LP with SD '59s in it - it's not a metal guitar by any stretch of the imagination. The amp's on top form; it sounds great, but I'm telling you it's not the sound I'm after anymore - stop telling me it is!
_tom_ i can't afford that Rockerverb - unless i somehow double my money :(
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The amp's on top form; it sounds great, but I'm telling you it's not the sound I'm after anymore - stop telling me it is!
Dude, im telling you nothing, you should have just said you have GAS and need to sell stuff that your bored with. Dont blame the JCM or me for that.
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is your JCM800 a 2203 or 2204? - I pretty surprised you can't dial in a warmer sound. if it's bone stock and you're trying to run it cleaner, the bright cap (4700pF) WILL make it very bright. remove the cap and you should be good to go.
if you're 100% set on getting rid of it, then a JTM45 or Bluesbreaker will give you what you're after.
:twisted:
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I would not sell the 800, I'm sure you will regret it A LOT.
I'm pretty sure that you could for example try a Damage Control Womanizer or similar sort of pedal into either the 800 or the peavey to get the tones you're after
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...maybe you should have your bias setting and the tubes checked?
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i really don't think you guys understand what I'm trying to say-
The main reason for me wanting to get rid of the '800 is the volume - it's far too loud for uni (i just got it here to uni, played for about 3mins with hotplate on -16db, with the fine tuning on about 9 o clock, and i've had 2 calls from randomers complaining. Any lower and the tone disappears COMPLETELY and it turns into a buzzy yuck).
I was saying that if i was going to get another amp i'd like it to have a more Plexi-sounding, lower gain, warmer tone.
Hunter you're right though, i know if i was going to sell the JCM800 i'd definately regret it someday... It sounds so damn good (it actually sounds a lot better in my uni room than in my room at home - i expect this is due to the far more solid concrete floor in my halls as opposed to wooden floorboards at home...?
Maybe the answer is to ask for a quieter amp for xmas, or to sell that peavey poweramp and save up some pennies.
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is your JCM800 a 2203 or 2204? - I pretty surprised you can't dial in a warmer sound. if it's bone stock and you're trying to run it cleaner, the bright cap (4700pF) WILL make it very bright. remove the cap and you should be good to go.
if you're 100% set on getting rid of it, then a JTM45 or Bluesbreaker will give you what you're after.
:twisted:
The amp's a 4104 (2204 with 2x12 speakers) Single channel. I might ask around and see if i can find an amp tech who could take this cap out for me - i am running the amp really quite clean (right on the edge).
I'm not 100% set on getting rid of the amp because i'm in love with it - it's just too loud for my current situation - as are a JTM45 and a bluesbreaker!
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Don't get rid of it, I'm sure you will be complaining in two months if you do
but if you're certain about selling, let me know :)
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is your JCM800 a 2203 or 2204? - I pretty surprised you can't dial in a warmer sound. if it's bone stock and you're trying to run it cleaner, the bright cap (4700pF) WILL make it very bright. remove the cap and you should be good to go.
if you're 100% set on getting rid of it, then a JTM45 or Bluesbreaker will give you what you're after.
:twisted:
The amp's a 4104 (2204 with 2x12 speakers) Single channel. I might ask around and see if i can find an amp tech who could take this cap out for me - i am running the amp really quite clean (right on the edge).
I'm not 100% set on getting rid of the amp because i'm in love with it - it's just too loud for my current situation - as are a JTM45 and a bluesbreaker!
this is something you could do yourself - with the amp unplugged from the wall of course, open up the chassis and locate the gain pot. there will be a capacitor soldered directly across the middle lug (wiper) and one of the outer lugs. you can just snip this out and you'll notice the amp will be much warmer.
also try running the master volume higher than the gain to fatten up your tone.
that amp has blackback G12Ms right? - nice speakers, I've had one of those amps before, still bargain buys.
btw, those 2204s have quite low plate voltages I seem to remember - you could run a pair of JJ 6V6s in there and it would fatten up your tone and give you less volume. EL34s and 6V6s bias up similar too so you should be ok to bias them up without modding the bias supply.
:twisted:
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is your JCM800 a 2203 or 2204? - I pretty surprised you can't dial in a warmer sound. if it's bone stock and you're trying to run it cleaner, the bright cap (4700pF) WILL make it very bright. remove the cap and you should be good to go.
if you're 100% set on getting rid of it, then a JTM45 or Bluesbreaker will give you what you're after.
:twisted:
The amp's a 4104 (2204 with 2x12 speakers) Single channel. I might ask around and see if i can find an amp tech who could take this cap out for me - i am running the amp really quite clean (right on the edge).
I'm not 100% set on getting rid of the amp because i'm in love with it - it's just too loud for my current situation - as are a JTM45 and a bluesbreaker!
this is something you could do yourself - with the amp unplugged from the wall of course, open up the chassis and locate the gain pot. there will be a capacitor soldered directly across the middle lug (wiper) and one of the outer lugs. you can just snip this out and you'll notice the amp will be much warmer.
also try running the master volume higher than the gain to fatten up your tone.
that amp has blackback G12Ms right? - nice speakers, I've had one of those amps before, still bargain buys.
:twisted:
the amp had pretty nasty speakers actually - i dont remember what they were exactly - G12m-75s or something...? I changed them for a G12H and a V30 - very nice... esp at high volume >.<
Thanks for the directions and the tip - i always run master higher than preamp anyways - it just sounds better! :D
I'll have a go at getting this cap out tomorrow perhaps.
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Has no one mentioned the simple thing - attenuator?
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Has no one mentioned the simple thing - attenuator?
what about it?
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If the amps too loud, wouldn't an attenuator help..?
Plus driving it would bring out the best, unless I'm missing something said previous :lol:
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I'll give you £20 for the JCM800. ;)
On a serious note, I hope you find something that scratches your itch. :)
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If the amps too loud, wouldn't an attenuator help..?
Plus driving it would bring out the best, unless I'm missing something said previous :lol:
i have a hotplate attenuator which i use with it :P
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i really don't think you guys understand what I'm trying to say-
The main reason for me wanting to get rid of the '800 is the volume - it's far too loud for uni (i just got it here to uni, played for about 3mins with hotplate on -16db, with the fine tuning on about 9 o clock, and i've had 2 calls from randomers complaining. Any lower and the tone disappears COMPLETELY and it turns into a buzzy yuck).
I was saying that if i was going to get another amp i'd like it to have a more Plexi-sounding, lower gain, warmer tone.
Hunter you're right though, i know if i was going to sell the JCM800 i'd definately regret it someday... It sounds so damn good (it actually sounds a lot better in my uni room than in my room at home - i expect this is due to the far more solid concrete floor in my halls as opposed to wooden floorboards at home...?
Maybe the answer is to ask for a quieter amp for xmas, or to sell that peavey poweramp and save up some pennies.
As an option, because IMO playing is meant to be loud, you could play trough your PC at uni. I build a small studio in the house i had before(in which i couldnt play loud either) the house i have now and had great fun playing just with headphones on. OKOK its something entirely different but it kept me sane those years. Especially with the nice amp modelers they have now im even tempted to try it again myself, heard some very encouraging clips around here.
Just an idea maybe....
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i really don't think you guys understand what I'm trying to say-
The main reason for me wanting to get rid of the '800 is the volume - it's far too loud for uni (i just got it here to uni, played for about 3mins with hotplate on -16db, with the fine tuning on about 9 o clock, and i've had 2 calls from randomers complaining. Any lower and the tone disappears COMPLETELY and it turns into a buzzy yuck).
I was saying that if i was going to get another amp i'd like it to have a more Plexi-sounding, lower gain, warmer tone.
Hunter you're right though, i know if i was going to sell the JCM800 i'd definately regret it someday... It sounds so damn good (it actually sounds a lot better in my uni room than in my room at home - i expect this is due to the far more solid concrete floor in my halls as opposed to wooden floorboards at home...?
Maybe the answer is to ask for a quieter amp for xmas, or to sell that peavey poweramp and save up some pennies.
As an option, because IMO playing is meant to be loud, you could play trough your PC at uni. I build a small studio in the house i had before(in which i couldnt play loud either) the house i have now and had great fun playing just with headphones on. OKOK its something entirely different but it kept me sane those years. Especially with the nice amp modelers they have now im even tempted to try it again myself, heard some very encouraging clips around here.
Just an idea maybe....
This is what I've been doing at uni recently, but i just can't stand it. i get really claustropohbic sitting around with a guitar round me and a headphone cable plugging me in. Also - it sounds not so great, and lacks the authenticity and simplicity of plugging into a combo and playing.
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Just my 5 cents - I wouldn't sell the 800, its not like they make them anymore (not proper ones anyways :) ). As Henk suggested, at Uni any amp will annoy people at anything other than whisper volume - go for something you can plug headphones into, and maybe have as a preamp to the 800 for more flexibility when you can crank it....
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Look into the Cornford Harlequin. It's only 6 watts and gets great tone at lower volumes.
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Since you don't want to wear a headphone, how about a Palmer Speaker Simulator, a solid state power amp and a pair of speakers? You'll be able to crank the JCM800 through it and in theory you should be able to get a better sound than just attenuating. You should look for the most hi-fi colourless power amp you can find for this set up.
Or as a last resort, get your amp modded to have power scaling installed.
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indy, i remember we once had a quick discussion about how much you liked that amp. maybe its not 'flavour of the month' at the moment, but if you sell it then 100% sure you'll regret it some day. in five years time when you want one back, jcm800s will be rarer, and more expensive.
for uni i'd say get something more budget than the orange or the boutique amps discussed. maybe an analogue modeller like the SansAmp GT2 or Award JD10 - use them as really nice distortion pedals after uni, or jack them into a hifi or shitety solid state practise amp now for practise.
get the boutique plexi when you have a phat job after uni
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how about the london power scaling, supposed to get the best out of your amp at lower volumes...but with out losing any of the sound, which is what happens most of the time with attenuators
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Maybe look at a Peavey Classic 30
Hadnt realised they also did a head version
Saw this on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peavey-Classic-30-Guitar-Amplifier-Head-NEW-RM-Amp_W0QQitemZ250169975187QQihZ015QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)
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Maybe look at a Peavey Classic 30
Hadnt realised they also did a head version
Saw this on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peavey-Classic-30-Guitar-Amplifier-Head-NEW-RM-Amp_W0QQitemZ250169975187QQihZ015QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)
would be far too loud!
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how about the london power scaling, supposed to get the best out of your amp at lower volumes...but with out losing any of the sound, which is what happens most of the time with attenuators
I've been thinking a bit about this - i'll look into it, and see if i can get a quote
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indy, i remember we once had a quick discussion about how much you liked that amp. maybe its not 'flavour of the month' at the moment, but if you sell it then 100% sure you'll regret it some day. in five years time when you want one back, jcm800s will be rarer, and more expensive.
for uni i'd say get something more budget than the orange or the boutique amps discussed. maybe an analogue modeller like the SansAmp GT2 or Award JD10 - use them as really nice distortion pedals after uni, or jack them into a hifi or shitety solid state practise amp now for practise.
get the boutique plexi when you have a phat job after uni
You're right - i know you're right. just been playing the 800 and it's well and truly outstanding. one of the best amps i've ever played easily.I'll look into those analog modellers you're speaking about. never heard or tried either
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As gwEM mentioned above, those Award Session JD10 Pre-Amp/OD pedals get great reviews as both a 'direct' pre-amp and as a pedal infront of an amp.
For the £80 or so they cost, it could be a viable option to try to see how you like it (if you can swing the £80 obviously).
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i mention the GT2 and JD10 for this reason:
usually i use them direct in a mixer, and very happily so. i'm pretty sure they would sound good into a decent hifi too.
but i was practising with a friend, and he unfortunately had just some sort of 15w solid state combo which was rather grungey sounding.
i set it to a clean setting, and used my SansAmp GT2 for distortion. it actually sounded decent - ok not up to my JMP50 - but significantly nicer than the drive on the combo itself. due to the small speaker, the tone was missing some low end... hardly an issue for practise.
if i needed to have a practise combo on a budget, i decided thats what i'd do.
never tried a JD10, but i plan to just as a variation to the gt2. gt2 sounds quite nice driving the jmp50, as long as the jmp is set to totally clean. quite funny to use the mesa-boogie 'model' in this way.
i'm sure a line6 pod or whatever would have more features. but i like the simplicity and non-digitalness of the GT2, it has its own character, and a robust stompbox format. i'm completely confident the JD10 would be cool too due to its reputation.
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here, look at this cheap SansAmp GT2 knock off:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_vtone_guitar_gdi21_analog_modeling_preamp.htm
if thats not keenly priced i dont know what is ;) don't know how close to a real gt2 it is.
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Thanks for stopping me selling my '800 guys. This thang RAWKS
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I'll have it :D
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I was about to suggest a Ceriatone 18 watt clone... could be right up your street. Not looking for an amp any more?
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My buddie got one of these for a similar reason. His setup was way too loud. He runs this with his Traynor 1X12 extention cab, and it sounds pretty decent. I'm no tone expert though. They're cheap, and I don't think it would match that beautiful tone of the JCM800, but it's something different to look at.
http://www.blackhearteng.com/bh5h.html
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Hi Indy - you should realy check out the Cornford range, although if you are going to be gigging at all, then I would avoid the Harlequin or Carrera. Although the Carrera is reaonsably loud, it doesn't have any clean headroom. I have a Hurricane (20w 1x12), and despite being single channel it is the most versatile amp I have ever played. It responds so well to volume/tone changes from the guitar. It also really lets the sound of whatever guitar/pedals you are using shine through. Bit more money than you are looking to spend, but worth every penny.
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Hmm, have you tried pulling 2 of the tubes? This will make the sound a tad looser and might be better at bedroom levels.
I think you should NEVER, I say NEVER sell the 800. You're young and there would be many many years of regret ahead of you.
Probably best to get something else for Uni. A modeller/amp combination or so. VOX Valvetronix or a similar kind. Or a real cheap small tube amp, like a Peavey Nano Valve or a Peavey Royal Valve King, Ibanez Valbee is also supposed to be great. Fender Vibro Champ if you can spend 200 GBP.
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Modellers are the most uninpsiring things to play through, ever. At least they are for me. At uni most of the time I just play unplugged because I prefer that to a badly modelled tone :P
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looks like we're reviving a few golden oldie threads ;)
Modellers are the most uninpsiring things to play through, ever. At least they are for me. At uni most of the time I just play unplugged because I prefer that to a badly modelled tone :P
which modellers have you played though tom?
i found you can make most modellers/solid state stuff alot more inspiring with a nice compressor.
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I agree 100%. I have been through several multi-fx and digital modellers, etc and have gotten rid of them all. Firstly, who wants to spend all their playing time programming endless patch parameters. Secondly, they might sound OK, but they don't give you the same feel as real amp.
For practice in the house I have a Custom Shop Fender Pro Jnr (with Jensen alnico speaker). I use a combination of a T-rex Compnova and Xotic BB to provide whatever level of drive and compression I want. I also tend to use my acoustic in the house - even for rock and lead playing. Its hard, but it does make you a better player! :D
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Modellers are the most uninpsiring things to play through, ever. At least they are for me. At uni most of the time I just play unplugged because I prefer that to a badly modelled tone :P
I agree but still surprised to hear that from you, where you made awesome clips with a behringer v thingy ...
Hey but it's different when you have a modelling AMP, just a speaker and a power section and some air make a big difference IMO.
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which modellers have you played though tom?
i found you can make most modellers/solid state stuff alot more inspiring with a nice compressor.
To be fair I've only used a V-Amp 2 and Amplitube 2. They're ok for recording but I really hate playing through them for practice. Have used Valvetronix amps as well and they were a bit better because as hunter says theyre still pushing some air, but I'd rather have a proper amp :P
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I would suggest you to buy a tube amp in at most 18w...
If you like the tone of Tiny Terror, would be great for the 7w-15w switch...
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want vintage marshall tone? want low volume to crank (almost) without doors being broken down? want a real tube amp with all the warmth etc. associated?
Zvex Nano :)
Seriously, .5watt is F'ING loud on full bore! 5w - 18 watt is small venue and then some volume without a GREAT master vol.
I like the Tiny Terror alot but the Nano is def. more plexi/marshallesque and although much quiter (maybe good thing) has good clean. Also, it LOVES pedals.
I see Thomann sells em now too.
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Hi Indy, it's good to see you're not selling your 800 anymore, i think you would have regretted it...
I'd personnally go with the Zvex Nano Head too if i had the money (cause they don't come cheap) :cry: , from what i could hear live, they do rock...
But they're expensive babes, plus they're not that quiet, one valve watt is already quite loud if you intend to push it a bit :P ... well maybe with your hotplate it'll be ok...
However, i'm in the same situation than you: i live in a uni room. if i had enough, i'd have go with the nano too but considering that i didn't, i went for a Pignose combo, running on batteries, well even if it's no tube amp, it's quite good (especially when you put new batteries in;)) and i'm pretty pleased with it (even if it compliments SCs more)... AND it's only like 75$ plus shipping...
well just my two cents, but you should check those pignose amps... really cool for uni rooms...
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not as cheap as some things for sure but darn it sounds good!
This, can get some amazing tones!;
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/DSC01524.jpg)
And this gets instant AC/DC (when set to crunch)!;
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/DSC01531.jpg)
and through a 4x12 it sounds massive!
So, def. NOT just a toy by any stretch of the imagination.
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Just been checking out some clips of the Nano on youtube, I want one again :lol: They're £300 on Hotroxuk, nice. Shame I need a new PC otherwise I'd be buying one pretty soon :P