Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Armchair Bronco on November 18, 2007, 07:35:19 AM
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Please compare & contrast these 2 bare-bones, single-pickup, P90-based guitars with wraparound bridges -- I want 'em both, but can only afford one :( (same old story...) Whichever axe I end up buying will be played through a Tiny Terror paired up with an Avatar 1x12 cab & Hellatone 30 (G12H30) speaker.
Gigson SG Jr @ $699 retail
Tone + volume pots, 24.75" scale
(http://images.miretail.com/products/optionlarge/Gibson/479935jpg.jpg)
PRS SE One @ $499 retail
Volume pot only, 25" scale
(http://www.prsguitars.com/seone/img/front_vintagecherry.jpg)(http://www.prsguitars.com/seone/img/front.jpg)
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The SG Jr is classic and kool and is dripping with mojo. It probably also has horrid fret ends and a low-end, mass-produced vibe typical of lots of cheaper Gibsons nowadays. (Still: it says GIBSON on the headstock.)
The PRS SE One is sleek and modern, but with a hint of the past. It's more like a modern version of the Les Paul Junior. It only has a single tone pot, but that's easily fixed with a concentric, stacked pot. Almost everyone agrees that PRS's (even the Student Edition SE line from Korea) are built to a much higher standard than comparable Gibsons. (But, alas, it's NOT a Gibson...)
Here's a YouTube video of the PRS SE One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCK6N2XEO4
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I'd go for the PRS on quality (those SEs are quite nice, if a little rough in finishing).
Or the SG on looks.
I'd say the quality of the instrument is of paramount when you're looking at entry-level guitars from these big-name brands.
Perhaps you could shop around for other brands like Tokai (although I don't know if they do jr models). Brands which have to prove themselves as a quality alternative are generally cheaper and sometimes better than they ought to be.
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(http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/original/E-JR-85LT_CH.jpg)
?
$642 + shipping
Both the models you mentioned are pretty much readily available in all music stores. why not just go and try them both out - see which you prefer?
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The SG Jr is classic and kool and is dripping with mojo. It probably also has horrid fret ends and a low-end, mass-produced vibe typical of lots of cheaper Gibsons nowadays. (Still: it says GIBSON on the headstock.)
I don't think Gibsons ever feel mass-produced exactly - they seem to still do a lot of the work by hand, and the individual guitars vary a lot. The trouble is, on the cheaper guitars, that hand-work can be pretty sloppy, and the timber quality isn't always very good either. But if you shop around, you will find a good one - eventually.
With the SEs, the quality control is better so you're much more likely to be able to pick up a good one "off-the-shelf". To me, that all-the-same quality says "mass-produced", much more than the Gibson - not that there's anything wrong with that. And for $499(!!), it's a steal - the UK price is the equivalent of $800 and I'd say they're still good value.
As the guys have mentioned already, there are also great Jr-style guitars made by other manufacturers, mainly for the Japanese market but available to the World through the wonder of eBay!
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i've always had my eye on a 'junior' P90 style guitar of some sort. however, only the SG shape really looks 'right' in my eyes, maybe i'm somewhat of a traditionalist in that regard (remembering heros townshend and so on). i'll be monitoring this thread for ideas.
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I've played those SG juniors and wouldn't say they feel sub-par. A setup and fret-dress are unfortunately required for most guitars these days, and not always just with cheaper guitars. Many shops will do a setup and basic fret-dress in with the price though so they're good to go right out the door.
Theres something about the SG construction too, the neck joint and thinner body - it just resonates like mad and the guitar feels alive. The sound is rawer and more direct too.
The PRS is a nice guitar too, but they 'play' too sleek and modern for me and the tone is towards the contemporary end too. By this point you'll tell I'm not much of a PRS fan, they just sound 'generic' imo - no individual character.
:twisted:
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I would find an SG-X in one of those surfer colours and put a BKP in there, it allready has a standard split switch.
Like this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-Gibson-SG-X-in-Deluxe-Gibson-Case-MINT-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ180180780727QQihZ008QQcategoryZ47073QQcmdZViewItem
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I'd side with the PRS SE everytime... modern Gibsons can kiss my arse quite frankly.
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does anyone else feel like the SE Ones look far to modern with that PRS headstock? They should have put the old-skool Santana headstock on it.
(http://www.prsguitars.com/santana2/img/main5.jpg)
Henk's idea of buying a humbucker guitar sticking a MQ in it is a pretty good one; Keep ur options open, and you could put a humbucker in there one day if yu fancy
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I think an SG X would do you nicely too, unless you really want a soapbar
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I would find an SG-X in one of those surfer colours and put a BKP in there, it allready has a standard split switch.
Like this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-Gibson-SG-X-in-Deluxe-Gibson-Case-MINT-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ180180780727QQihZ008QQcategoryZ47073QQcmdZViewItem
SG-Xs are great - I have two of them! :D Unless you're set on a P-90, of course, but you could put a Mississippi Queen in an SG-X.
They're out of production, but as Henk has demonstrated they do turn up on eBay occasionally.
does anyone else feel like the SE Ones look far to modern with that PRS headstock? They should have put the old-skool Santana headstock on it.
No, I must say I like the newer PRS headstock a lot. The Santana one always looks like the result of an accident with a belt sander.
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what music do you actually want to play?
It seems odd that no-one as asked yet actually.
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I got my SG X on ebay, was about £300, well worth it. Got a rebel yell in it now :D
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SG-Xs are great - I have two of them! :D Unless you're set on a P-90, of course, but you could put a Mississippi Queen in an SG-X.
They're out of production, but as Henk has demonstrated they do turn up on eBay occasionally.
Damn...... GAS...... must not give in...... :lol:
There are alot around still, think they went for about 600-700$ back then so they should be a bargain by now.
Just the thought of a RiffRaff with 4-conductor cable in there would be fantastic, im confident that there is something that sounds close to a P90 when split by the way, a P90 being a single coil anyway AND this way you can profit from the hum cancelling.
To top that even off, this guitar would be pretty much future proof, meaning that if you change your style you will be able to just flip another pickup in there out of an enormous variety of possibilities.
Owell, maybe someday one will turn up on my path.....
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The SG owns the PRS in my opinion.
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Just the thought of a RiffRaff with 4-conductor cable in there would be fantastic.
Exactly what I have in my green SG-X :P :wink: :
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/IMGP06344.jpg)
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The SG owns the PRS in my opinion.
Yeh i think so too.
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what music do you actually want to play?
It seems odd that no-one as asked yet actually.
AC/DC, Nirvana, Zeppelin, and stuff by The Wipers (one of the great unsung Pacific Northwest pre-Grunge punk bands). My son and I also like messin' around with crunchy, over-driven 12-bar blues/rock jams.
I'm trying to stay open minded to my options (but I must have a P90-based guitar). My 8-year-old son, however, isn't prepared to settle for anything less than an SG with 2 silver humbuckers. The black P90's against the big black pickguard just don't look kool enough to him!
The SG-X is something I haven't considered. I'll keep my eyes open now that the blinders have been removed.
I also agree that heads up, the SG beats the SE One on an emotional level. The SE One wins the practicality contest. But let's be honest: if we settle for "practicality" over subjective emotions, we usually end up with buyer's remorse (or at least I do). :lol:
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It's SG all the way for me.
But then I WOULD say that wouldn't I?
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The other "issue" that the SG-X solves is that it gets rid of the hideously large diaper-shaped pickguard that Gibson insists on installing on all of its lower-end SG's.
That pickguard is a monstrosity in my opinion, and on the SG-X you've got a much nicer & smaller pickguard (that actually looks a little like the PRS SE One's pickguard).
But, truth be told: I'm more interested in getting a new axe already loaded with P90's than embarking on a modding operation right now. I'd be willing to install a concentric stacked pot on the PRS SE One to add a tone control (although I don't see the lack of one as a huge liability, either), but that's about it.
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(http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/original/E-JR-85LT_CH.jpg)
I almost bought a Gibson Faded LPDC last Christmas, but the fret ends and the "faded" finish were so bad on the 10 or so specimens I looked at that I passed on the $495 price. Every guitar I looked at was consistently sub-par with shards of metal on the fret ends big-time overspray on fretboards and the headstock -- I was really disappointed.
The other problem is that I mostly play sitting down: I still haven't learned how to play standing up. :cry: And the big curve on the LPDC just isn't very comfy sitting down.
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Exactly what I have in my green SG-X :P :wink: :
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/IMGP06344.jpg)
....... Now youve done it....... :roll:
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But, truth be told: I'm more interested in getting a new axe already loaded with P90's than embarking on a modding operation right now. I'd be willing to install a concentric stacked pot on the PRS SE One to add a tone control (although I don't see the lack of one as a huge liability, either), but that's about it.
Have you tried the P90 in the PRS? If i remember correctly they put som offbeat wannabe P90 in their SE range.
Sure the 'budget' line is setup really badly and the fretwork, paint and so on leaves to be desired. However with a little bit of attention that can be remedied IMO. More importantly, if you find any cheap gibson you like which has a clear yet smoothly sustained tone, which can only be a small difference, go for it. If only considering resale value your alot better off.
Buying your kid the best guitar you can afford and playing some low grade SG yourself is logical, im just saving them untill they are old enough, i dont actually buy them for myself :roll: :wink:
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....... Now youve done it....... :roll:
I hope that means you've given in to GAS...
...not that you're coming round to beat me up. :(
I'm bigger and scarier than I sound in print, honest.
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I hope that means tou've given in to GAS...
...not that you're coming round to beat me up. :(
I'm bigger and scarier than I sound in print, honest.
OMG, since im someone born in the age of pacifism i hope your joking.
No, i was talking about the GAS inflicting characteristics of this forum, you guys made me buy two guitars allready!!! :lol:
Anyway, i just figured out im really buying those guitars for my kids, im just keeping them temporarily. So im not worried anymore :lol:
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My SG X, no pickgaurd
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/adammato/SG/IMG_0184.jpg)
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ahh that looks so nice! How much do they usually go for on ebay? I want one to put a MQ in now.
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ahh that looks so nice! How much do they usually go for on ebay? I want one to put a MQ in now.
Guesstimating about $500
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I got mine for around £300!
Well worth the money, i used it over my SG standard!
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I hope that means tou've given in to GAS...
...not that you're coming round to beat me up. :(
I'm bigger and scarier than I sound in print, honest.
OMG, since im someone born in the age of pacifism i hope your joking.
Joking of course :wink: . Just as well, since I'm not really big or scary.
ahh that looks so nice! How much do they usually go for on ebay? I want one to put a MQ in now.
Hard to pin down a price, but they seem to go pretty cheap. But most of the ones you see on eBay are in the US, so you're looking at big shipping and Customs charges, unfortunately.
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My SG X, no pickgaurd
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/adammato/SG/IMG_0184.jpg)
:o that is frikkin amazing!
if you ever want to sell that give me a bell!!
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(http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/original/E-JR-85LT_CH.jpg)
I almost bought a Gibson Faded LPDC last Christmas, but the fret ends and the "faded" finish were so bad on the 10 or so specimens I looked at that I passed on the $495 price. Every guitar I looked at was consistently sub-par with shards of metal on the fret ends big-time overspray on fretboards and the headstock -- I was really disappointed.
The other problem is that I mostly play sitting down: I still haven't learned how to play standing up. :cry: And the big curve on the LPDC just isn't very comfy sitting down.
you do realise that that isn't a gibson i posted???
Also - learn to play standing up - it'll be good for you - esp ifyu start gigging
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you do realise that that isn't a gibson i posted???
Also - learn to play standing up - it'll be good for you - esp ifyu start gigging
Yeah, I know it's not a Gibson LPDC, but it looks a lot like one...with one big difference: It don't say GIBSON on the headstock. It looks so much like an LPCD that I think the headstock on that clone says: LAWSUIT.
Here's the real deal:
(http://www.gibson.com/Files//LP_DoubleCuts/lpfd_wc.jpg)
Man, every time I look at this photo, I get bummed that I wasn't able to pull the trigger on one of these axes last year. :cry:
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I think Indy's point is to maybe get an Edwards instead?
Value for money, and arguably(but most likely true) far more consistent finishing, and factory setup.
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Please compare & contrast these 2 bare-bones, single-pickup, P90-based guitars with wraparound bridges -- I want 'em both, but can only afford one :( (same old story...) Whichever axe I end up buying will be played through a Tiny Terror paired up with an Avatar 1x12 cab & Hellatone 30 (G12H30) speaker.
Gigson SG Jr @ $699 retail
Tone + volume pots, 24.75" scale
(http://images.miretail.com/products/optionlarge/Gibson/479935jpg.jpg)
PRS SE One @ $499 retail
Volume pot only, 25" scale
(http://www.prsguitars.com/seone/img/front_vintagecherry.jpg)(http://www.prsguitars.com/seone/img/front.jpg)
My SG Special is so in another world to SE's. So much better playability, eerything. The neck is quite chunky, but I'd say its more acurate to Gibsons than the SE's are to PRS.
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I think Indy's point is to maybe get an Edwards instead?
Value for money, and arguably(but most likely true) far more consistent finishing, and factory setup.
I'd need to be able to play one before I buy one. No more "sight unseen" guitar purchases for me!
The problem with the LPDC shape is that it's just not very comfortable for me to play while sitting down. I know that I have to master the art of playing while standing, but since I do most of my practicing in a chair or on the sofa, I want something that feels comfy over my right leg. The cutaway on the LPDC is too deep and too round.
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I remember an old saying from the early days of computers: "No one was ever fired for buying an IBM."
The same sentiment applies to SG's.
Here's the guitar I really want. I can do all the comparison shopping I want, but nuttin's gonna change my yearning for a bare-bones Gibson.
(http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/9/3/7/479937.jpg)
For the Olde Skool Kool, I can live with the oversized pickguard and the realization that I'll need to drop $100 for a proper fret dressing.
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I always liked the batwing pickguard. Looks good on this bloke's guitar anyway:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/SGandPete1.jpg)
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Frankly, I would look for a Pre-lawsuit PRS Soapbar.
The Purple Singlecut shaped one with the 2 soapbars. That was a SUPERB guitars. Better than most Gibsons I've played and was in shops for about £399.
http://www.imuso.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?StockCode=EG00139
This one infact.
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Another advantage of the Gibson SG Jr is its flat body...which makes it the perfect modding platform for one of these down the road:
(https://www.audiolinks.com/tek9/images/products/1172.jpg)
(http://elderly.com/images/accessories/GEPT/B5_front.jpg)
I can swap in a BadAss or Tune-O-Matic bridge for the stock Gibson wraparound bridge and then install the Bigsby B5 without having to worry about filling in non-existent holes for the non-existent stop tail.
(I'd probably have to replace the stock tuners with some locking tuners.)
Anyway, I've always thought that Gibson SG's with Bigsby's look awesome.
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I get the stipped oldskool idea, fair enough. Even when you would decide to put in a humbucker at some point it wont be hard nor costly to have that done.
Redressing the frets should be an easy enough job if the neck is straight.
A couple of friends of mine went to the gibson importer over here to try different samples of guitars, the one they picked was then sent to their local dealer since the importer did not sell them. Maybe you can arrange for something like that. Oh you live in the US, owell maybe a mayor dealer then.
Good luck in finding a decent one.
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I get the stipped oldskool idea, fair enough. Even when you would decide to put in a humbucker at some point it wont be hard nor costly to have that done.
Redressing the frets should be an easy enough job if the neck is straight.
A couple of friends of mine went to the gibson importer over here to try different samples of guitars, the one they picked was then sent to their local dealer since the importer did not sell them. Maybe you can arrange for something like that. Oh you live in the US, owell maybe a mayor dealer then.
Good luck in finding a decent one.
I live just outside Seattle, and thanks to the likes of Hendrix, Cobain, Sub Pop, and an endless stream of grunge and punk alternative bands in the area, there are LOTS AND LOTS of guitar shops around here, including 3 Guitar Centers within 30 minutes of where I live. I should have no problem tracking down at least a half-dozen SG Jr specimens to choose from.
Now I just need to get my Orange Tiny Terror (ETA is early December) so I can drag the head along with me as I make my pilgrimage in search of the "perfect" SG Jr with my name on it somewhere!
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Here's an awesome YouTube video I just found of a '64 SG Jr being put through its paces to Jeff Beck's "Let Me Love You":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pTGRzyWCEs
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:lol: I think youll better keep an eye out for a real vintage SG Jr, you know for when your kid get to that age in which he can appreciate guitars without two new and shiny pickups :wink:
Amps can allways wait IMO....
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Here's the guitar I really want.
(http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/9/3/7/479937.jpg)
You've said it yourself - it the guitar you REALLY want. Screw practical, give in to your feelings, 'feel' the power of force... (etc.) UNLIMITED POWER!!! (ok, I'll stop it there, lol).
Gibson juniors are just SEXY and with the single pickup they have so much resonance because of the reduced string pull.
Try to get a setup/fretjob in with the price of the guitar, or at least work a deal on it.
:twisted:
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take a look at this
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220174097499
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take a look at this
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220174097499
It's got some nice (although simulated) battle scars, as if it fell off the back of the band's van and was run over by a VW bug or something!
I think I'll stick with a New Old Stock (NOS) SG Jr! :wink:
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take a look at this
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220174097499
Gorgeous - my heart is saying "get it if it stays cheap" but my head is saying "you've already got a LP junior".
Must admit, I do love single P90 Les Pauls and SGs but for some reason the twin P90 Gibsons don't do anything for me.
:twisted:
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twin P90 Gibsons don't do anything for me.
:twisted:
Me neither, they don't look right. This is making me want a white SG jnr now, with the old style pickguard :evil: but Jake E Lee looks so cool with them
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Me neither, they don't look right. This is making me want a white SG jnr now, with the old style pickguard :evil: but Jake E Lee looks so cool with them
Did you click on the YouTube video link I posted earlier in this thread?
The guitarist was playing a white '64 SG Jr with the old-style pickguard and an apparently non-operative tremolo/vibrato thingy. He also had a (50 watt?) Marshall head and 4x12 cabinet, and the "all" part of "Marshall" had broken off, leaving just "Marsh".
After seeing THAT axe in action, I wanted to get a vintage white SG Jr, too. (Alas, it would cost $4K-$5K to satiate that thirst...)
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Must admit, I do love single P90 Les Pauls and SGs but for some reason the twin P90 Gibsons don't do anything for me.
I like the look of single-cutaway LP Specials a lot - but not the double-cutaway version, the pickups are too close together and the control layout looks wrong somehow.
But soundwise, I think P-90s work best in single-pickup guitars - so simple and they make you work to get different tones! In twin P-90 guitars you think you've got more versatility, but the pickups always seem to sound too similar to each other (IMO).
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Agree on the 1 pickup P90, still you have to consider if it will work well with the effects you use, some P90's dont work very well with effects at stage volume, or at least i think so. I am really sceptic about how a P90 will react to the TT gain aswell.
I only have an old semi with dogear, and obviously i dont want any effects on that and i also would not consider playing it on stage.
You pretty much would need one helluva top notch P90 IMVHO.