Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: CJ on November 18, 2007, 11:43:44 PM
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whats the difference between the two? and looking at some guitar descriptions, some say double locking, some don't. All floyd's are double locking aren't they? doesn't this just refer to the fact that they lock the strings at the nut and the bridge, or no?
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The only difference between OFRs and LFRs is that LFRs are licensed, ie, they're copies. OFR is Original Floyd Rose, just like you have Original Gibsons, and then Edwards etc.
Most Floyd Rose copies are made from cheap metals, where the knife edge dies much quicker, and then you need to replace them. Other LFRs have different mechanisms, etc, but essentially they're all variants of the original OFR.
Some LFRs are shitee. Some are great.
But the OFR beats them all imo.
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ok well not any time soon, but i'm starting to think about what guitar i want at the end of the school year. i want a floyd. i originally wanted an RR5, but they don't have floyds. i'm looking into deans now, all of which have licensed floyds, except for the super expensive USA models. what is the knife edge whatever, and what does it matter? and how expensive would it be to buy an OFR? how about putting one in a guitar thats not already routed for one, such as the RR5 or one of the non-trem ML's?
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The Dean LFRs are very shoddy imo, tried the Vendetta, could have sworn it was made of plastic.
An OFR costs about £150, and chances are you'll need to do some routing to get it in.
The knife edge is the pivoting point of the bridge, since that gets alot of abuse it gets worn down - And when cheaper metals are used, it gets worn down very quickly.
OFR tend to have much higher QC than most LFR makers.
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how much would it cost to completely route out a guitar for a floyd, approximately? would it actually be better to get a regular non-tremmed ML for like $500, and then put in an OFR? is this even possible with the type of bridge that's on there now? And any clue if the quality is any worse on the regular ML's than on the Dime ML's and razorbacks?
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None at all.
I presume the more expensive models are better quality, but who's to say. I'd personally rather go with something Japanese.
But if you're certain you want a Dean, and you're certain you want an OFR, then go for either a guitar with an OFR, or the cheapest version of the guitar without an OFR.
If you're going to be buying an OFR, and you're going to be routing your guitar, best to save as much money as you can towards the above.
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Personally, I'd just buy one of these:
http://bcrich.com/assassin_px3t.html
Neck thru, OFR and sexy as f*ck. $700 at musiciansfriend.com
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Personally, I'd just buy one of these:
http://bcrich.com/assassin_px3t.html
Neck thru, OFR and sexy as f*ck. $700 at musiciansfriend.com
The knobs look foul - And the pickups are awful, but a guitar at that price with an OFR is indeed VERY intriguing.
I may be pessimistic, but there must be a QC issue with those for them to go so cheap - I have never been impressed by BC Rich.
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i am 100% against BC Rich, though that doesn't look quite as obnoxious as usual. I'm looking for a real unique guitar that doesn't scream NOOB (aka BC Rich). I was originally looking at something like the slime razorback or a different dime guitar, but they all have licensed floyds, and they're already $1000. now, i guess i could always play it for 2 years until it wears down and then replace it... but, i found this that i thought was very cool. http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemPos=39&TempID=10&DepartmentID=1&STRID=193353&CategorySubID=681&CategoryID=681&BrandID=1611&CategorySubPriceRangeID=0&pagesize=10&SortMethod=2&Method=3&PriceRangeID=0&SearchPhrase=&Contains=&Search_Type=Department&GroupCode=&categorysubsearch=true
i've never seen a burst like that, and i wanted an ML. so... $580 for guitar, $150 floyd on ebay?, how much would re-routing cost? $200 max?
that is by my calculations $930, with room for error. thats $70 less than a dime, with an OFR.
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i followed your link and i got this:
"Dean Playmate Avalanche J Electric Guitar (3/4 Size, Classic Black)" i assume thats not what you meant??
did you mean this?: ML 79F Electric Guitar with Floyd Rose (Assorted Colors)
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I don't like dean razorback necks, they have a point sticky out bit down the middle, don't see the point of it, it's annoying and pointless, dean MLs don't have this though
my jackson RR3 has a licenced floyd, use the bar it won't go back in tune, it'll be either slightly flat or slightly sharp
if your gunna get a floyd make sure you know how to change string on floyds, and know how to stretch string properly, I've heard too many stories of idiots who do it all wrong and then snap lots of 0.009 gauge strings
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i followed your link and i got this:
"Dean Playmate Avalanche J Electric Guitar (3/4 Size, Classic Black)" i assume thats not what you meant??
did you mean this?: ML 79F Electric Guitar with Floyd Rose (Assorted Colors)
link works for me... its an ML79, no trem, blueburst finish.
yeah i don't want to get screwed by a licensed floyd, which is why i'm wondering how expensive it'd total to buy a floyd and get it installed. and no, i don't know how to use a floyd, never have. but i'll learn.
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So buy a guitar with a copy floyd if you need to and buy and new Floyd and have it fitted
We have fitted many new Floyds to guitars that are ok construction-wise but the copy Floyd is a let-down
The OFR is much better quality than the copies provided it is set up properly
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Feline, that may be a possibility. The dime guitars are too expensive to be buying and then buying a new floyd. I am considering the M79T, which is cheap enough to throw in a OFR, but i don't really like they're finishes. Do you think it would be too much work to install a floyd in a non-floyd guitar? how much would it cost? I'm willing to spend up around $1000 on the guitar.
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Alot of guitars with LFRs need to be routed anyway to get an OFR in - Be sure if you're paying extra for an LFR, the routing is at least right, else buy the Stoptail model and get it routed yourself.
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question- the non-trem models aren't like a gibson stop tail. they have that triangular piece at the bottom that the strings go to. are there gonna be holes left in the body from removing that.
and for god's sake, could someone please give me a general range of how much it might cost to put one of these in?
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Yeah, its a string through I think, so there will be holes left.
You may want to ask one of the luthiers around here, but our prices may differ, its a fair bit of routing
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:D Personally i`d buy a Edge Pro 3 trem from Ibanez. Cheaper well made & just as good as a OFR. Better still just buy a Ibanez RG range guitar allready fitted with a edge pro trem. There well made & easy to come buy, they dont cost a fortune either.
:D 8)
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:D Personally i`d buy a Edge Pro 3 trem from Ibanez. Cheaper well made & just as good as a OFR. Better still just buy a Ibanez RG range guitar allready fitted with a edge pro trem. There well made & easy to come buy, they dont cost a fortune either.
:D 8)
that may be a consideration. i'm planning on getting the trem off ebay, so i'll go for what i can get for cheap. I'm really not into any superstrat style guitars. I want either an ML, Razorback, or Rhoads- whatever i can get with a decent trem for the best price.
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Well, theres more KERPLUNK in a LFR...
the OFR is lighter, but made of a single cast of metal i believe. EG the base is one cast of really good metal. Kahler actually tune their bases.
LFR's CAN be knocked out cheaply and quickly. But Schaller's are really good trems.
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all of this advice means nothing to me if no one will tell me how much it'll cost to re-route a guitar. i mean, all i need is like under $200, under $300. general price range. if it's going to be too much i may get like an RR24 or something.
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all of this advice means nothing to me if no one will tell me how much it'll cost to re-route a guitar.
Sorry to sound like an ass but...
1) You DON'T know which guitar you will buy.
2) We don't know the luthiers you live near.
How the hell could we tell you?
I think you should be a bit more grateful for the time people put into answering your questions.
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:D Its impossible to give accurate info on cost but bear in mind. If your guitar has a fixed bridge it`ll need to be routed out. This has complications. If the guitar you buy is already fitted with a LFR style trem then it`ll already be routed out. This will make the job cheaper. Remember if the guitar needs routing the Guitar repairer/Luthier will have to be very very careful not to get the job wrong or they`ll F**k up a guitar totally & if you`ve payed a lot say £400 for the guitar it`ll be ruined. This means that repair/luthiers will charge alot for them taking the risk. You should budget for anything from £100 to £200 just for the fitting of the trem not including the price of the trem unit. Again if i was you i`d look to buy a guitar already fitted with a good quality LFR trem or OFR.
:D 8)
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Alot of LFRs will still need routing.
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all of this advice means nothing to me if no one will tell me how much it'll cost to re-route a guitar.
Sorry to sound like an ass but...
1) You DON'T know which guitar you will buy.
2) We don't know the luthiers you live near.
How the hell could we tell you?
I think you should be a bit more grateful for the time people put into answering your questions.
dude don't think i don't really appreciate the help. i mentioned that if i'd be putting a floyd in a not-trem guitar, it would be the ML79. as i said, i know you can't give me an accurate amount, but i want to know if me guessing like $200 max (not including the OFR) is way off, or what. When i'm putting all costs together, i'm thinking of what will everything cost at the max.
so jt, you think $100-$200 sounds right?
and i could get the ML79 with a LFR for only like $20 more, but if i'm going to be spending a good bit on a guitar (this will probably be my last for a while) i want to get exactly what i want. They don't have the 79F in the blueburst. plus, if noodle's right about possibly still needing routing with that, i don't see the purpose.
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If it was routed for a LFR, my understanding is that it would need far less routing, and the routing itself would not be in such an obvious place as to cause aesthetic issues if a bit scruffy. I would go for the one with a LFR.
I have the feeling that with the US economy / current exchange rate, it would be hard for us to judge the cost over there.
google search : http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-649/Floyd-Rose.htm
thats a lot of money....
Less invasive options? (Kahler is back in operation... - try not to get into a debate about FR vs Kahler :P)
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hmm... i wonder if that $400-500 in that link you gave me was including the floyd. i couldn't possibly image $500 for cutting some wood, no matter how perfect it needs to be. and why would they need to refinish? maybe some touch up around the cut, but certainly not a full refinish?
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An original Floyd costs about £150+ over here
Fitting one to a guitar that is already fitted for a LFR wil take about 2+ hours including routing (we charge £40 per hour)
Fitting one to a hardtail guitar will take a lot more work and i cant give you an accurate time figure till i know which guitar (but as a guide - maybe double the time quoted above for routing and installation)
Be careful of guitars with Tunamatic bridges as it can be awkward to fit a floyd on a guitar with a high neck angle/tunamatic bridge
We have fitted a number of OFRs to Dean MLs tht already had a LFR and it worked out great - we did have to order a Floyd with a short block as the ML is a thin bodied guitar
Check exchange rate for idea of what thae prices equate to in $ US
Currently £1 = $2.05
But you need to find what a local repairman would charge - may be cheaper due to a different cost of living in the USA etc
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An original Floyd costs about £150+ over here
Fitting one to a guitar that is already fitted for a LFR wil take about 2+ hours including routing (we charge £40 per hour)
Fitting one to a hardtail guitar will take a lot more work and i cant give you an accurate time figure till i know which guitar (but as a guide - maybe double the time quoted above for routing and installation)
Be careful of guitars with Tunamatic bridges as it can be awkward to fit a floyd on a guitar with a high neck angle/tunamatic bridge
We have fitted a number of OFRs to Dean MLs tht already had a LFR and it worked out great - we did have to order a Floyd with a short block as the ML is a thin bodied guitar
Check exchange rate for idea of what thae prices equate to in $ US
Currently £1 = $2.05
But you need to find what a local repairman would charge - may be cheaper due to a different cost of living in the USA etc
hey, thanks for the info. have you ever done the hard-tailed ML? and i could probably be wrong, but i thought the conversion rate only came into play when dealing between countries. i thought that goods and services and stuff still end up being the same when dealing within your own country. i don't know i'm tired. i don't know any stores who i'd trust doing this with though. i'd have to look around.
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Exchange rate
I only meant so that you had a proper idea of the scale of cost.
Wasn't suggesting shipping any guitars to have it done
Look to find a respected guitar maker in your area and ask the question of him/her.
So look at google and make a few calls........till you find someone that can do the work, otherwise your wish to have the work done will only ever be so much hot air......
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:D As a rule i`ve found that Americans tend to charge the same as British for services, but not exchange rate wise. ie if a job here [ UK ] is £200 at the current exchange rate thats $400 [ US ] Americans will charge $200 [ US ] not the equivalent after exchange. BUT this is as a general rule & you really do need to start asking music shops & guitar repair men in your area. It might also be worth your while email the guitar manufacturer & asking them if they make the guitar your after with a trem unit in the colour you`d like as manufacturers do make a selection of guitars in different colours & there not allways for one market place ie USA, They may sell the same guitar with different hardware & colours in different markets. This is very common in Japan with Ibanez guitars. You`ve stated that your not happy with the shops or repairers in your area so why the hell are you talking about getting a guitar that`ll need the kind of work on it your not comfortable with them doing ???
You get what you pay for if you`ve got it in your head that you can get a trem for $30 & it`ll be as good as a trem that costs $150 then your in for a shock. Again for what its worth i`ve used both OFR & LFR`s & to be honest the Ibanez Edge pro trem was every bit as good as the OFR & i`ve heard the same said about the Schaller Trems as well.
:D 8)
Do`s the guitar your after come with a LFR ? if so to be honest i`d stick with it & see what you think before jumping into buying a OFR just for the sake of buying a OFR.
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yeah, jt, thats what i was trying to say about the exchange rate. i think services and stuff end up being equal. and i was saying i don't know of anyone within my immediate area that would do this stuff. all i have is main chain stores around here like guitar center, don't know if they're any good- i know they send their repairs out somewhere. And the guitar i want is the Dean ML79. They have a LFR version, and a hard-tail version. But, the LFR version does not appear to come in the color i want, and i only really want this guitar because of the color, so i'm kind of not considering the LFR version. I will email dean though and see if its possible to get the LFR version in my color. that'd make things a whole lot easier.
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C'mon
Learn to use Google!
Google is your friend!!
In under 3 minutes I found the following (and I dont know where you live either)
A few Guitar repairers In Pennsylvania:
Guitar Repair:
Bruce Hames
George's Music - North Wales
1218 Welsh Rd
North Wales, PA 19454
Mike Haney
460 Wegman Rd
Reading, PA 19606
610-406-9231
Electronics Repair:
Musician's Electronic Service
798 Biddle St.
Ardmore, PA 19003
610-896-7311
Pro Amp Repair
2905 Mannerchor Road
Temple, PA 19560
Phone 610-921-3244
Fax: 610-921-8593
jkcrater@comcast.net
www.proampservice.com
Band Instrument Repair:
Pat's Repair Service (brass and woodwind repair)
Pat McGranahan
Phoenixville, PA 19460
pat@napbirt.org
Mon- Fri. 10:00 AM to 8:00 PM
Call for appointment
(610)935-3773
Here is another list that I found:
http://www.playguitar.com/directory/Guitar-Repair/Pennsylvania.html
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ok now this is where a lack of knowledge on my part comes into play ( and a weird coincidence i must say). The first link you posted, George's Music, is actually where i take guitar lessons. Now this place does guitar work and stuff, but they send their stuff out to someone, and i didn't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing. i also don't know anyone who's taken their stuff there, so i couldn't ask about people's experiences. i mean i'll obviously ask them how their repair work is next time i go, but most likely they'll always say good. what i meant by saying there wasn't anyone i trust is that, its not like there is any respected repairmen in the area that everyone knows of. anywhere i give it to will just be me hoping and expecting that they do a good job.
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:D Reputations are made through people doing the work. You may be the 1st but everyone of us when we hand over our instrument are taking a chance. There are no guaranties i`m afraid. Welcome to the real world !
:D 8)
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:D Reputations are made through people doing the work. You may be the 1st but everyone of us when we hand over our instrument are taking a chance. There are no guaranties i`m afraid. Welcome to the real world !
:D 8)
ha, yeah well we'll see what happens. what's the difference between the OFR and the ibanez trems? and are they about the same price or are the ibanez cheaper? i'm definitely not looking to cheap out, but if say the ibanez are as good and cheaper, why not get one of them?
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:D Over here in the UK The Edge Pro Trem system from Ibanez is cheaper £100 as opposed to £150 they come in 3 colours, Black, Gold & Nickel. You`ll need to go into a shop licensed to sell Ibanez products & have a chat.
:D 8)
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I was wondering...
Is there a "real" world or are we just brains in jars experiencing a series of vivid dreams?
Does God exist?
Who shot JFK?
Sorry back on topic...
I've heard that there is a guaranteed low cost guitar repair service offered at:
ET Guitars
USAF Roswell, New Mexico, USA
Give em a try! :roll: :roll: :roll:
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I was wondering...
Is there a "real" world or are we just brains in jars experiencing a series of vivid dreams?
Does God exist?
Who shot JFK?
Sorry back on topic...
I've heard that there is a guaranteed low cost guitar repair service offered at:
ET Guitars
USAF Roswell, New Mexico, USA
Give em a try! :roll: :roll: :roll:
got a problem with something? sorry, i wasn't aware i wasn't allowed to ask questions on a forum. and what are you talking about? i never once said i was looking for the cheapest possible option. do a bit more reading... i'm terribly sorry that this will be my first time dealing with a repair shop, or with a tremmed guitar.
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I think that it might be a good idea for you to read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Rose
and
http://www.jemsite.com/tech/
Then, if there is ANYTHING that you STILL do not understand...
BY ALL MEANS THEN ask the question.
You seem to need to be spoon fed on matters that a simple Google search would resolve.
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I think that it might be a good idea for you to read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Rose
and
http://www.jemsite.com/tech/
Then, if there is ANYTHING that you STILL do not understand...
BY ALL MEANS THEN ask the question.
You seem to need to be spoon fed on matters that a simple Google search would resolve.
not necessarily, just that i trust you guys much more than wikipedia.
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yeah well i asked over at George's music and they said it would probably be around $300-$400 dollars, so nevermind that. however, i got a email back from dean and they said that although they don't do custom shop guitars, they can usually make a guitar in a different color. so i guess i could just get the ML79T in the color i want.
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Just a little bit of advice not relating to the Floyd;
In an earlier post you said "I'm only really getting this guitar for the color".
Why not just buy a 1000$ Ibanez with a decent trem or something?
http://www.andertons.co.uk/acatalog/info_S520EXMGF.html?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=Froogle
That's £449, so around $1000. Good trem, no routing needed. Comes in a variety of colours.
Just a thought.
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yeah i'm definitely considering ibanezes. there's a lot of nice ones at georges. ibanezes look a lot better in person and what i meant by i only wanted that color, was i would only want the ML if it was in that color, not just any guitar in that one.