Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Roobubba on November 20, 2007, 04:17:08 PM
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As of the time of writing, I'm a little concerned by the "Part 1"... but here we go!
(http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/images/black-label.jpg)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180181436330
That's 2 x EVM 12-L black label 8ohm 300W speakers.
Part 2 of my speaker GAS is a 2 x 15" cab, and Part 3 is another two of these speakers, or something similar to match them!
These will be replacing Peavey 5150 cab stock Sheffield 1200 speakers, which will be for sale in due course, most likely!
I will do an A/B recording in due course and post links to the MP3 files here!
Roo
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You got a pretty decent deal there mate, bet they sound f'in immense. I'd go with a pair of G12K-100s to fill up the rest of your cab, you'd probably not even need a 2x15 with such a heavy-duty 4x12.
:twisted:
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Is the purpose of the EVM speakers to not give any speaker overdrive or something?
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Yeah Will - I specifically don't want speaker breakup, as the drive really comes from the preamp. I'm not into blues, and I don't use a crunchy sound - it's balls to the wall distortion, and I need it precise and defined.
I also play very loud, and the bass that comes through in my drop-A tuning tends to make the sheffields get a little farty in the low end (only at very high volumes, kinda 5+ POST on the 5150-II!). These speakers should take all that abuse and beg for more :)
Roo
HTH, thanks for the info - I've been looking at the G12K-100s, might well do that as they don't break the bank like these suckers do!
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Speaker GAS part 1b:
Just ordered me two G12K-100s
Not got the EVMs just yet, but will try to do an a/b/c/bc comparison when they all arrive!!
Next is the 2 x 15" cab, and then load up the corners of that with a couple of high-powered 8" speakers :D
Roo
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In fact, thinking of 8" speakers to go with the 15" bass cab as an extension:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280174057542
Does anyone have experience or views on using high-powered car speakers in a custom cab for guitar use? Clearly these are alongside the monstrous speakers listed above (and mainly are there just to get the 2 x 15" cab down to 8 ohms!)?
Those speakers are an example of the sort of thing I'm thinking, but if this seems stupid, or I've overlooked something, I'd be really grateful of being corrected before spending the cash!!
Cheers in advance,
Roo
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Theres one sure way to cure speaker GAS. Just get a couple of celestion greenback 20's, the real old ones. You simply cant get anything better then that. :P
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In fact, thinking of 8" speakers to go with the 15" bass cab as an extension:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280174057542
Does anyone have experience or views on using high-powered car speakers in a custom cab for guitar use? Clearly these are alongside the monstrous speakers listed above (and mainly are there just to get the 2 x 15" cab down to 8 ohms!)?
Those speakers are an example of the sort of thing I'm thinking, but if this seems stupid, or I've overlooked something, I'd be really grateful of being corrected before spending the cash!!
Cheers in advance,
Roo
Roo, I had an idea of putting a pair of 15" speakers in a 4x12 with two 10" speakers (x-patterned so they'd fit using a custom baffle). I talked it through with Matamp and they explained that due to the different rates that the 15" and 10" speakers vibrated that it wouldn't be a very good idea and that I'd be better of with seperate 2x15" and 2x10" cabs.
If you do go this route, get the cab baffled off like the split Mesa 4x12" where half is closed back and the other open back. That way you will have some isolation between the speakers.
Henk, I agree the G12M-20s are fantastic speakers, but probably not the best for Roo's purposes - they break up way too easy and wouldn't take a low A too well imo (think they'd fart out).
:twisted:
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thanks for that HTH, sounds like a cunning plan - speaker isolation ahoy! I'm sure with a few bits of wood and plenty of cunning, I can come up with something to emulate a split open/closed/isolated cab!
Band practice was so good yesterday, but I just can't wait to get these new speakers in there!
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thanks for that HTH, sounds like a cunning plan - speaker isolation ahoy! I'm sure with a few bits of wood and plenty of cunning, I can come up with something to emulate a split open/closed/isolated cab!
Band practice was so good yesterday, but I just can't wait to get these new speakers in there!
And now that you'll have both the EVs and the K100s it's be VERY interesting to hear how different they are.
The toughest bit will be micing them exactly the same so that you can compare them directly. The best way, imo, will just be to try and capture the signature tone of each speaker as best you can.
If by any chance you don't get on with the EVs, I've got a mate who's been wanting some for ages and would snatch your hand off.
:twisted:
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My Rivera 2x12 cab had 2 x EVM speakers in and it took 2 people to move it, and even then it was a struggle to lift.
I swapped them out for a pair of celestion sidewinders which brought the weight down a lot.
My only point was to warn that the EVs are pretty heavy units and to not make a cab that is too heavy to move.
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Damn, that looks like some seriously heavy duty speakers! I'd be interested to hear how they sound :D
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Heh, GAS nearly satiated: I've just bought that 2 x 15" Marshall cab that someone pointed me to here...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260183270596
Also ordered two 8" drivers (if i "win" those, too) and will sort out some sort of isolation between the units in the cab.
So, money spent, awaiting delivery of:
2 x EVM12L black label
2 x Celestion G12K-100
1 x (2x15" cab)
2 x 8" drivers
Will update with A/B/C type comparisons as and when I get the stuff! Thanks to all for reading and advising!
Roo
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My Rivera 2x12 cab had 2 x EVM speakers in and it took 2 people to move it, and even then it was a struggle to lift.
I swapped them out for a pair of celestion sidewinders which brought the weight down a lot.
My only point was to warn that the EVs are pretty heavy units and to not make a cab that is too heavy to move.
When I looked at the specs on those EVM Black Labels I seem to remember that the magnet was so big it would make a standard Marshall 4x12 THREE TIMES HEAVIER!!! :o
Roo, remember this advice - bend from the knees :lol:
:twisted:
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heh, thanks for the advice. Anyone know any good chiropractors in Oxford, just in case? Might as well get one pre-programmed into my phone!
The speakers for my 4 x 12 will weigh 26.6 kg (59 lb) on their own! I don't think the cab itself is *that* heavy - it's not an Orange or Hiwatt cab, for example. Think I might need to save up for a van with a ramp.
Mmmmmm VAN GAS...
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OK, so now I have the 2 x G12K and 2 x EVM 12L speakers! Need to get some recordings, wire them in, and then get some more recordings, now!
I'll post later on (or tomorrow, possibly, I have a lot of work on!) with the results :)
Roo
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Well, I have to say, I am absolutely astonished at the difference in sound now!
I do apologise for the REALLY REALLY poor quality of these clips - I just wanted to get something rough and ready down that would show the sound. I'm not bothered that the playing is scr@ppy, you'll just have to trust that I can play better than this ;)
Also, the microphone is really poor quality, but you'll get the idea from listening to the clips (I hope) of just how different these speakers all are.
The clips don't give the impression that I get stood in the room, though - there is MUCH more power on tap. The sound is fuller, fatter, more articulate and louder. I love it!!
Thanks for the suggestion of the G12K-100s to go with the EVMs, these speakers really do pair up well in the cab, as the EVMs are very neutral, and the G12Ks have amazing grind to them.
Also, I have deliberately left out my effects and noise gates and so on. Don't need that for bedroom volumes anyway.
Also 2) these speakers are NEW out of box, first time playing, not even remotely broken in yet!!
Without further ado:
Peavey 5150 Sheffield 1200 speakers, stock in 5150 cab. Well broken in. (http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/peavey_5150_sheffield.mp3)
EVM-12L Black Label. New out of box, not taken to volume yet. (http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/EVM_12L-BL.mp3)
Peavey Celestion G12K-100 speakers. New out of box, not taken to volume yet. (http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/CelestionG12K-100.mp3)
Setup for recording (I make no apologies about the clean sound quality - I deliberately avoided all effects to make this comparison as clear as it could be):
Ibanez RG470F/TBL with Miracle Man Bridge pickup > Peavey 5150-II Head (all settings the same for all clips!!!) > Speakers > T-bone cheapo mic > cheapo work laptop.
Pictures:
Before:
(http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/5150_cab_before.jpg)
During:
(http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/EVM_boxed_small.jpg)
(http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/EVM_boxed_2_small.jpg)
(http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/arty_evm_small.jpg)
After:
(http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/5150_cab_after.jpg)
(http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/pair_new_small.jpg)
And finally - today I should get the 2 x 15 cab! Woo!
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Thanks man! I was looking for clips from the G12H-100 but couldnt find many, the G12K-100 is the followup model and should sound comparable. It does sound a bit loose in the highs and lows yes, wondering if you can be a bit more elaborate on those. Im not going to push as much low end trough them though.....
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Roobubba,
Thanks for putting up the clips. Very interesting.
First, let me qualify everything I will say by saying that I am not a high gain fiend, and I never use those sorts of tones.
OK, here goes. The EVM's and the G12K-100's are certainly "tighter" and have more low end than the sheffields. I can see how you would like that, especially playing on your own. For me, though, even though the sheffields sound looser and generally not as "modern" as the other two, I can see them definately putting out a lot of frequencies that will cut through in a whole band mix.
Listening to your clips, I would be mildly concerned that the EVM's and K-100's would have a tendency to not cut through quite a much as the sheffields.
I wouldn't discount the option of using two EVM's with two sheffields. You might get the best of both worlds.
You may find that tweaking your amp's EQ will give you everything you want through the new speakers. Also, it is true that soundclips can be very misleading. I'd be very interested to hear how you get on with them at the next band practice.
Alan
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I will get a first break-in of these speakers on Thursday night, but in the mean time, I might try to get some more recording done with them. Proper recording, like!
I don't find them loose in the room, but that may be because of the pairing of the G12K-100s with the EVMs. I do have a LOT of bass going through those, and this is downtuned to A-E-A-D-F#-B, too.
If anything, my playing is probably a lot looser on that particular clip!
Don't look now, the 2 x 15 has arrived, time to make myself another speaker cable!
Roo
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whoa, looks like you have gone full stack then!
If I had the money, I may have not told you about that 2x15 and had a few bids myself :roll:
If you are looking to change the speakers in that, have a look for what Lemmy used in his 4x15, saw one on ebay with the Lemmy upgrade
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yup!
(http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/stack_pic01.jpg)
Rwar!
Thanks for the comments, gents. I will certainly bear in mind keeping the Sheffields for a bit. Being the only guitarist means that I don't have so much to do to be heard through the band mix, but only time will tell how these speakers cope with it.
Cheers!
Roo
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I just love K100s.
So much.
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From the clips I like the G12K-100s, they have lots of bite and snarl. The EVs have an interesting tone, I think they want more treble for sure but then the Celestions might sound too bright.
They'll both change once they break in anyway, so the EV's might brighten up a bit - I know my bass cone G12H-30s did (they were REALLY dull on the top end at first). Of course some pumelling with a cranked SLP soon broke them in :lol:
:twisted:
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Nice tones!
Incredible that how near ZW was the sound of EVH!
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Nice tones!
Incredible that how near ZW was the sound of EVH!
EDIT: EVM, stupid... :?
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Thanks! I must get round to recording some more with these now that they're broken in. They sound so much better now, I'm absolutely loving the breadth and depth they give :)
Might well update this thread in the next few days...
Roo
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Updated:
I thought I'd have a quick check of the speakers now they've been very well broken in. The settings may not be identical before, so you probably can't compare, but between the two types of speaker everything is identical. This is a very quick and rough recording, sorry about the playing I was just getting the recording done quickly!
So without further ado:
Celestion G12K-100 broken in sound clip (http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/Roo_Test_speakers_celestion.mp3)
EVM 12L Black Label broken in sound clip (http://www.zen108935.zen.co.uk/soundclips/Roo_Test_speakers_evm12l.mp3)
Hope these are useful to someone. When we do some recording as a band, I'll get a decent mic and get the whole lot set up properly, but until then, this will have to suffice :)
Roo