Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: gwEm on November 23, 2007, 05:00:09 PM
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in the past, i've just had one guitar where i've had the nut changed, asked feline to do it and all was fine.
i'm thinking of doing 2 more of my guitars, and using some sort of bone nut, but this time i'd like to have a stab a doing it myself. mainly to save money as i have my eye on a somewhat large guitar purchase.
it looks like a good deal of precision is required.
removing the old nut sounds easy enough with hot air and screwdriver as a chistle. presumably this is the right way? i checked some guides, and they all suggest something different.
couldn't find a reference for how to actually cut the nut slots themselves. i have a set of nice needle files which should do for the wider strings, but what about the higher ones? (junior hacksaw too wide?)
is there a technique to get the slots the right depth? or just compare to the old nut? is the angle of the slot important?
finally i'll need to fit the new nut - presumably the best way to do this is to clean the nut slot and use superglue?
thanks for any tips. usually this is where i start to draw the line of my guitar technical expertise, but i'm feeling brave and (i think i) want to try it. how hard would you say the job is 0->5?
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the nut shouldnt be attached with much - no need to use heat and thats probably not best for the neck anyway... score around the old finish with a sharp knife then but something solid up against the nut, i use a block of wood. One tap with the hamer should release it.
make your nut roughly the right shape but leave it a little taall and put some starter slots in for the strings and put it on the guitar - dont glue it just yet, the string tension should hold it in place
graduall take each slot down to the right height, fret at the 3rd fret and look at the gap over the first fret. When this gap is about the thickness of a piece of paper your slot is done - just make sure the radius matches the fretboard
Angle the file downwards slightly so the front edgeis your break point.
When you have all the slots done mark about half way down the thickness of the thicker strings and just at the tops of the thinner ones. remove the nut and shape it to these marks.
polish it up and reattach with no more than 2 small drops of superglue.
easy job as long as you go slow and pay close attention to the depth of the slots
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thanks alot wez - it doesn't sound too bad based on that description, feeling semi-confident to give it a go.
what tool would you suggest for cutting the slots? i found out that "nut files" exist, but they seem quite expensive.
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i have nut slotting saws and and files. but the simple answer is anything that fits. Try and find a small saw to do the grunt work , then the slots can be tidied up with fine sandper folded in two. On the wound strings you can actually use an old string to do the last bit of shaping - but thats easier to do off the guitar - works great on basses
dont angle the slotss too mucn, that makes it easy to gouge out the headstock, just aim for the tuner hole
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gwEm- if your expensive purchase is with me, I will be happy to help out with the final tricky bits of the job if you need help and don't wish to buy the expensive nut files
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I say go with a Graph Tech pre-slotted Trem Nut. Best thing you could do for your guitar, and I'm sorry to all you purists, but it beats bone nuts in every test :twisted:
Do it... do it... all the other kids are doing it... 8)
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i prefer natural unbleached bone, well cut it works best. no reason for the unbleached other than i prefer the colour - and i have tried graphtech a few times... its certainly not bad just not my preference
oh, if you do go with a precut nut it will still need setting up properly - it would be very unwise of them to produce one that needs no tweaking
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You, sir, have challenged my honor and integrity! It's a fight of traditional against modern, now :twisted:
I challenge you to bare knuckle fistacuffs!
HAVE AT YOU!
:lol:
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i am certainly not a traditional purist in any sense of the word!! I avoided bone for a long time because it stinks when you cut it but now i am used to that and i havnt used anything else since.. although i still will use graphtech if people ask for it - ntohing against it really!!
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Ok ok, I'll let you off the hook... for now :P
But honestly though (and I'm an unknowledgable newb, I know) what benefits will bone offer over anything else once distortion is kicked in? I can understand how it affects a clean tone, sure, but anything moderately overdriven or more will negate the effects of whatever material the strings are sitting on.
Hmm? :idea:
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if thats true then by the same reasoning you might as well go play a plywood guitar if you are using lots of distortion
all these little details add up to make a big difference, distorted or not
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My Squier Bullet Strat >IS< plywood, hehe 8) I'll even take a picture of the cavities under the scratchplate if you want - you can see the layering! Also you can see it on the neck... buuuut it sounds great clean and distorted. Go figure ;)
And I'm not here trying to argue and start a beef. I quite enjoy a little back-and-forth about things. It's the only way I'll get educated after all.
And I'll also admit that while I argue lots, I never EVER demand that I am right. I am the suplicant here :oops:
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Ive used natral bone also, best i ever used, really hard stuff and very smooth slots too.
Like said before you pretty much need the right tools, the bone nuts are just square and rough pieces.
If your serious about the nut you install youll work on this with alot of patience and care to work the nut to the exact shape of the fretboard. This will give you a great playability upgrade IMO. Decide on what distance you need above the first fret before you begin though and make the slots way less deep than that distance so you can check and work them down. I messed up one nut because i worked it down too low the first time :oops:
The nut really seems a small piece in the whole guitar, but it really is a VERY influential thing.
EDIT: Stressing this again, DONT USE SUPERGLUE!!!!!!!!!!!
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My Squier Bullet Strat >IS< plywood, hehe 8) I'll even take a picture of the cavities under the scratchplate if you want - you can see the layering! Also you can see it on the neck... buuuut it sounds great clean and distorted. Go figure ;)
yeah and the nut on my main guitar is graphtech so i will let you off :wink: I am well aware that some plywood guitars in this world will mysteriously sound good... its just one of them facts of life to wind up the gear snob thats developing inside me :wink: I am also aware that some cheap pickups can mysteriously sound great - but i would still rather spend my money on BKP's because they are that bit better
henk - whats wrong with superglue? It seems the ideal choice for the job to me, and most of the people i know who make guitars for that matter. A small dab will hold the nut firmly in place but it will still release with a little tap to make replacing easy. Superglue is great stuff when used properly! if you know a reason not to use it i would be grateful to hear it
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Stressing this again, DONT USE SUPERGLUE!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you suggest instead?
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Ive bought glue from a repair guy back then(dont know what brand, but it was white and solvent free AFAIK) and only glued the nut slightly, blow over it so the glue does not penetrate the wood as much. I replaced a nut with this glue and it came out very clean on the nut's slot. Allthough it might seem strange to buy all that stuff to replace a couple of nuts i should add that i had a phase in which i wanted to do everything myself guitarwise :oops:
Im sure you would be able to put the right amount of superglue in there and put the nut in on exactly the right place in one go. I however would make a mess of it for sure, superglue can really mess the guitars finish up and it pretty much sticks within a second. Since i also would doubt(sorry but im being realistic) gwEm could do it in one go i think he should not use superglue.
EDIT: adding a link about bone nut replacements
http://fingerlakesguitarrepair.com/pages/repair-descriptions/neck/nut/gibson-les-paul-custom-new-nut.php
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Stressing this again, DONT USE SUPERGLUE!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you suggest instead?
I would ask a my repair guy to donate a bit of their glue for the good cause, the glue that i had before seemed like oldfashioned wood glue, but thicker/glueier and without solvents. When i later replaced that nut (yes i admit that working on very little things is not for me!) with a premade one it just came out clean, no glue residue to work out from the cavity, the glue just stuck to the nut.
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superglue can really mess the guitars finish up and it pretty much sticks within a second.
That's very true, and because it's so thin it can run all over the place and the damage is done before you can mop it up, no matter how quick you are. I buy superglue in the "one drop at a time" bottles, but even then it can splurge out suddenly and screw things up.
Of course there's also thicker "gel" superglue, which might do the trick. It's not runny, but I don't know if it still sets really fast.
In his Guitar Player repair book Dan Erlewine mentions "hide glue" or "white glue" but I don't know exactly what they are - I assumed "white glue" was wood glue, but I wasn't sure if it would stick well to the nut material.
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White glue is PVA and works ok or you can use stuff like titebond.
Avoid using epoxy like Araldite etc - prevents future repairs
There is nothing wrong with using superglue, but dont use the thin stuff.
I use one called Vital Bond that works great in the medium viscosity variety(yellow cap on the bottle)
The thin stuff runs/splashes and is a damn nuisance- it does have great uses where you want it to penetrate- maybe to harden a screw thread in wood where you dont want the strapbutton to pull itself out as the wood crumbles where the screw has gone in
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right, i've got a TUSQ nut on order, going to give it a go.
possible expensive purchase mentioned was indeed what we discussed jonathan, if i make a mess of things i'll be round.
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If you find alot of glue in the cavity i would let that be taken out by Jonathan, the premade tusk ones are measured on a clean base. I suppose cleaning out the residual glue wont cost that much.
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yeah wood glue works fine as well - the key with superlgue is to apply a small amount to the nut away from the guitar and dont rush!!