Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Scotty477 on November 27, 2007, 10:48:35 AM
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It's my first post here, so hello everyone :)
I'm looking for some advice on what BKP's to fit to my Gibson Les Paul Classic, which currently has stock pup's - 496R and 500T.
The guitar is fairly standard in construction. It's a gold top (bullion) colour and has an unchambered one piece mahogany body with maple cap and a rosewood fingerboard and mahogany neck.
I currently play in a wedding/party type band but will shortly be converting back to blues/classic rock and maybe some indie rock thrown in.
At the moment I go direct into the PA when playing live - via a Boss GT6 but will amost certainly be getting a Marshall Valve combo later.
My influences are Gary Moore, Dave Gilmour, Neil Young and Jimmy Page - which may give you an idea of why I'm having a tough time in choosing the right BKP's.
I'm looking for 2 things from the pickups I get. I'd like them to be able to produce a warm crunch/dirty tone and also be able to clean up well.
Basically I'm looking for slightly more than just PAF vintage but not too hot ... and be able to produce well defined, articulate solo sounds.
Before I found out about BKP's I was originally going to buy a set of Seymour Duncans - SH-11 Custom Custom (Bridge) and AP2 for the neck.
My guitar tech basically told me to hold off and have a look at BKP's, so here I am .... and I have to say I'm impressed with what I've heard so far.
It's also good to see such a decent and humorous forum community :D
I have carried out a few searches of previous posts, before I posted this as well as listening to some samples and out of this I'm initially thinking of getting a set based around these options:
Bridge
Emerald, Mule or Black Dog
Neck
Stormy Monday or Mule
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
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I would say Mules but if you're leaning more to a blues sound rather than a rock sound you could get a new PG Blues.
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Welcome :)
If you can hang on a couple of days, the combo I'm putting in my Tokai Love Rock may suit you. I have an Alnico IV Mule in the bridge and I'm putting an Alnico IV Stormy Monday in the neck. I have a pair of Mules in another guiitar and the neck is very full sounding - great, but not always ideal for some things. The slightly sweeter SM neck with the full Mule in the bridge should be an awesomely flexible set up. I'll let you know what I think.
If you like a fuller tone, then a pair of Black Dogs or a Black Dog bridge / Mule neck combination may suit you. Depeneds how full or thick a tone you want???? Have a listen to Hunter's Black Dog clips or _Tom_'s Mule clips in the player section and see what you think....
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Standard Mule set sounds like what you want
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For the bridge I'd say you cant go wrong with either a mule/black dog or Crawler - they will all be 100% suitable.
No sure about the emerald - i had one in my les paul and it sounded great but i dont think its as versatile as some of the others. - it makes a stunning middle pickup.
As for the neck; The mule is my favourite - it just oozes smooth tone and expression.
Ive never tried a stormy monday in the neck. I have one in the bridge of another les paul epiphone - to me it sounds completely balanced across the eq - great for punk.
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Having all of the pickup combos you have listed, and been a blues/rock player myself, I would go with one of 2 sets. For a slightly more aggressive Gary Moore/Neil Young sound, the Emerald with an AIV Mule in the neck. This can do 'Still In Love With You', 'Like A Hurricane', 'Rock n' Roll' and all points between. For a little less aggressive sound, and to bring in the Dave Gilmour sounds, then a Riff Raff/AIV Stormy Monday set will work. This is a smoother sound and will get into "Shine On You Crazy Diamond' sounds as well as still being good for all the other sounds.
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Basically I'm looking for slightly more than just PAF vintage but not too hot ... and be able to produce well defined, articulate solo sounds.
For this i would definately say alnico IV mule for the brigde and Alnico II or IV stormy monday for the neck. I now have an alnico IV mule set, but found the neck pickup great for a more bluesy/dirty rythm tone, but its so much less tight then the bridge mule it doesnt always combine well.
I was also looking for a vintage PAF but slightly hotter/contemporary. The mule is very bright and open sounding pickup but still has the PAF characteristics all over it. Its just so versatile, for any rythm or lead, you can even get strat like clarity off it. I do have unpotted ones though, BKP makes them in such a way you wont have very little to no feedback issues.
Compared to the stock pickups youll get a way better and more articulate midrange and clearer high end. It will also sound more organic, especially the 500T can be rather disappointing as livelyness and string dynamics are consearned IMO. The output will be less, but due to the clarity gain it wont sound that way trough the amp, ill even say you would have to turn your amp down a bit.
Hope this helps,
Greetings, Henk
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This is might not what you ask for, but I swaped my 496R and 500T to a pair of Crawlers, and that was the best thing I´ve ever done with that guitar/any guitar. From beeing hard/hash/lifeless sounding it really came alive and got "TONE".
I was into another type of sound than what you describe. I wanted a more singing/fat lead tone. I wrote to Tim about a set of Mules but after I told him what a was after and my style he recomended me the Crawlers. And after listening the Geoff-clips I realized that was exactly what I was looking for. And I GOT IT! I am very pleased...
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This is might not what you ask for, but I swaped my 496R and 500T to a pair of Crawlers, and that was the best thing I´ve ever done with that guitar/any guitar. From beeing hard/hash/lifeless sounding it really came alive and got "TONE".
I was into another type of sound than what you describe. I wanted a more singing/fat lead tone. I wrote to Tim about a set of Mules but after I told him what a was after and my style he recomended me the Crawlers. And after listening the Geoff-clips I realized that was exactly what I was looking for. And I GOT IT! I am very pleased...
That is pretty much exactly what Tim told me, except I wasn't too impressed with Geoff's clips. Too fuzzy a tone to my taste. I though he'd recommend Mules, Black Dog, or Emerald but just like this, the Crawlers turned out to be what I wanted.
They might be a little too high in the output for what you're looking for though.
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Thanks for all the suggestions.
The Mule bridge does sound great but it's perhaps a little thick for my taste, although I do like the mule neck.
The crawler bridge sounds really nice, although the neck has an element of fuzz that I'd like to avoid - certainly from the demo anyway. As for them being too high an output ... anything compared to the ceramic monster that is the 500T will be welcome :lol:
I'd love to hear more examples of the Rebel Yell and Emerald, although they seem to be far removed from a PAF sound.
Bottom line is I'm still trying to decide.
I'm just off to hunt for VHII clips now ...
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Thanks for all the suggestions.
The Mule bridge does sound great but it's perhaps a little thick for my taste, although I do like the mule neck.
The mule bridge will sound very thick trough a dirty gain channel of an JCM800 or something like that, clean it just sounds very tight, clear and open with allmost an acoustic guitar quality to it which is quite unique.
The 500T is alot darker, alot less focussed sound IMO. Cleans are not that usable unless split as a single coil. It also has the tendency to go 'over the top' when distorted which is also the reason why many players like the 500T. Someone said here on the forum that the BKP painkiller sounds close (but is clearer) to the 500T, so maybe that will help you with making a comparison. Obviously the 500T is no PAF and you will actually hear so much more of your playing and technique with the mule or other PAF.
Another option to consider would be getting a 4 conductor bridge pickup so you can use it as a single coil, or ive heard Tim also does make Mules with alnico V magnets, there is a sticky in the pickup section about the characteristics of magnet types like you maybe have found allready.
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Thanks Henk
I spent hours last night going through the sound clips and a few BKP's caught my attention.
Crawler in the bridge position sounds rather nice and will have a degree of versatility that I'm looking for. I also liked the VHII bridge sound.
The neck is a different matter though. What I want from the neck pickup is warmth and clarity - without fuzz / overload in the dirty sound.
If I was brave I would just go for a calibrated set of Black Dogs. They sound terrific but I'm not sure if they will have the versatility that I need in my current situation (wedding/party gigs playing old MoR 'standards').
On the subject of the 500T - you're quite correct. I've only put up with it for this long as I could 'disguise' it and the 496R - to a point - using the Boss GT6.
The only trouble with doing that is that you tend to lose the character and tone of the guitar :cry: .... So they have to go :D
If all goes well with my LP Classic, I've decided to kit out my '94 Epi Standard with a set of BKP's as well.
The Epi has a birdseye maple top and is one of those 'one in twenty' Epi's that play really well and appears to be soundly built. The stock pup's are far to weak though. It sounds much thinner - unplugged - than my LP so the BKP selection will be different. Maybe a calibrated mule set would be good for this?
Anyway, I do apologise ... I'm rambling on here :sing1:
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Hunter seems to do just fine with Black Dogs in his Epi Les Paul and he plays a variety of stuff? Maybe drop him a PM for his opinion?
I'd be tempted to play it safe the other way - put the all-rounders in your Gibson (set of Mules) and gamble with the Epi (Black Dogs). That way your main guitar (Gibson I presume?) is the most flexible......
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The Black Dog (or other BKP's i'm not certain about) option may not be such a gamble now.
I just spoke to the tech that's going to be fitting the pup's and he's basically saying that if the set of BKP's I choose aren't the sound that I'm after, he'll allow me to exchange them within 21 days (providing I bring back everything they came in and with) :)
Given that, I could go out on a limb and try some BKP's that I'm not 100% certain about. I haven't asked but I'm assuming this exchange is their standard policy - which is excellent service.
Only problem I still have is the choice .... :hmm:
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Thanks Henk
The neck is a different matter though. What I want from the neck pickup is warmth and clarity - without fuzz / overload in the dirty sound.
The neck AIV mule pretty much fits that discription pretty good, youll get some overload past noon gain setting which get nasty past around 2:00 on my JCM800, hope thats clear for you. No dark fuzz heard yet, but i never full throttle the gain, turns everything to mush.
I personally think mules sound best in a rather clear sounding guitar accoustically because that would compliment the mules IMO.
However, if you like the blackdog's youll definately like the tigh bottom end of the mules so maybe that would be an arguement to put them in the gibson, good caps to roll a bit off the brigthness might make it a very versatile pickup for allround pop.
I personally like the open PAF sound that the mules have over anything else, its such a rare trait IMHO. The crawler bridge seems to have the same quality to my ears. Then again that would be similar to an alnico V mule but wound less hot, so its pretty much in the same league what im thinking out loud here :lol:
Pretty much everything overwound or 'hot' wound sounds darker so anything in the 8k range has my vote.
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Thanks again Henk.
I just got back from my guitar tech and I'm now the proud owner of my (first) set of BKP's :D
I talked at length with the guitar tech, who then spoke to Tim on the phone while I was there. Between the 3 of us the conclusion was that the BKP's that best suited my guitar and me was .... a set of calibrated Emeralds
I opted for zebra's, as they will look great with the Gold top.
In the shop I considered Mules, Black Dogs and Rebel Yell but Jimmy (the tech) had fitted a set of Emeralds to a Les Paul last week and - in his opinion - they sounded awesome. Warm, punchy mids and good for leads.
I thank all who posted here to help me out and I'll put a picture of my guitar in a new thread when I get it back.
Maybe even some clips, if I can manage.
Cheers :drink:
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Congrats!
Will it be posible to hear clips of this? I'm still yet to have an idea of what the Emeralds really sound like. I just know I want them :oops:
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Congrats!
Will it be posible to hear clips of this? I'm still yet to have an idea of what the Emeralds really sound like. I just know I want them :oops:
Np problem.
I'll try my best to get a clip up on the boards. I'm due to get the guitar back early next week, as its getting refretted as well, so that'll give me a chance to rig something up.
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That's great! Thanks.
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Great, so you got Emerals eh?
Funny enough thats what Tim suggested to me too at first..... Would be interesting to hear more clips because i couldnt find any i liked at that time......
Have fun, Henk
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There's long been a grievous lack of Emerald clips. It'd be great to hear some! 8)
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I'll try my best but most of the clips on this board are far better than I'll ever manage.
I have chronic thickfingeritis :wink:
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Oops. Double post :oops:
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I'll try my best but most of the clips on this board are far better than I'll ever manage.
I have chronic thickfingeritis :wink:
Its pretty much all about the tone, my imagination can fill in the rest :oops:
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I'd like to register my interest in Emerald clips as well. :)
For some reason, it's by far the least-mentioned humbucker in the BKP line. The only other one which comes close in the criminally(?)-ignored stakes is the Abraxas bridge.
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There certainly isn't many Emerald clips, that's for sure.
I have to admit I'm really looking forward to hearing what they sound like in my LP.
When I do post some clips they will initially be straight through a Roland Cube 30 with a neutral setting. It's small but has a great voice and will give a good idea what the pickups sound like
After that I may be able to post some live clips of my band.
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I'd like to register my interest in Emerald clips as well. :)
For some reason, it's by far the least-mentioned humbucker in the BKP line. The only other one which comes close in the criminally(?)-ignored stakes is the Abraxas bridge.
Maybe because they are rarely suggested. I was 95% sure Emeralds were for me, but Tim talked me out of it. Oh, and my next BKP will most likely be the Abraxas bridge. :P
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Maybe because they are rarely suggested. I was 95% sure Emeralds were for me, but Tim talked me out of it. Oh, and my next BKP will most likely be the Abraxas bridge. :P
You're a trailblazer! :)
Just about the only thing I've ever been able to glean about Emeralds is that they'll give a "classic 70s Les Paul sound". I just can't get a clear idea of how they compare with other BKP models - I've read that they're a little brighter than a BD, not as bright as a RR, slightly thicker than a RY. I know they have a fairly high DC resistance (13.1K) but don't sound particularly loud. People who do have them (e.g. Phil King) seem to love them.
I guess the only thing to do is to buy one and find out! :lol:
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... trailblazer? :? What trail? How did I blaze it?
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... trailblazer? :? What trail? How did I blaze it?
By being one of the few (apparently) to go for the Abraxas bridge pickup.
OK, the trail's already there, but I think it's pretty overgrown from lack of use.
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I have a set of Emeralds and they are Awesome!...but what I like the most is....the mystery that surrounds them.... 8)
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Ooohhh .. A mystery!
My anticipation grows :guitar4:
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To my ears the Emerald bridge could even be the best lead pickup BKP makes, but i play mainly rythm and the kind of compressed mids i seem to hear on all Emerald clips dont work with my kind of playing. Compressed mids are just one of the very few things that i definately cant live with.
However, like with any pickup ill need to find some way to smooth out some minor points and if i just would be able to manage to break up the mids it could be sheer perfection.
Hmmmm.......
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Apologies for keeping this thread a bit off-topic, but I wonder what's a good neck match for the Emerald if, like me, you prefer an Alnico IV neck pickup? :?
I think I read somewhere that the Abraxas started as out as an experiment with an AIV version of the Emerald - I don't know if that would be bridge, neck or both. The specs have probably changed since then anyway.
So I guess the AIV neck pickup to go with the Emerald is either Mule or Abraxas?
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Doesn't PhilKing have an Emerald bridge/Mule neck combo in one of his zillion guitars? :)
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Doesn't PhilKing have an Emerald bridge/Mule neck combo in one of his zillion guitars? :)
He does indeed, in a Zemaitis (or Greco/Zemaitis, not sure).
I've been thinking of getting an AV Emerald / AIV Mule combo for ages, but it just occurred to me that the Abraxas neck might (or might not!) be a better match output-wise.
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Man, you guys have great memories! They are in a Bacchus Zemaitis metal front and sound brilliant. They are actually my first set of BK's and were in my chambered LP at first, where they still sounded great. In the metal front though the Mule sounds even better than in the LP. They have old 1960 Gibson Nickel covers that Tim put on for me, and the combination tones are also really interesting. The Emerald bridge is really punchy with great harmonics and a nice drive to it. I never heard the Emerald neck though.
I have been thinking of an Emerald set for a new project (though my VHII's are also a possibility). It is a 25.5" scale LP which will look similar to Marc Bolan's Standard with the LP Custom neck (I have no idea how it lost it's standard neck, but if you look at the pictures of it, it has a standard neck in some and a custom in others). Anyway it will be either an all Mahogany body, or possibly a Korina with mahogany top. Wrap around Wilkinnson tailpiece and Sperzel machines.
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I remember mostly because, when I was searching for new BKPs for my LP Std, I archived a bunch of notes culled from forum posts. :) The Emeralds were certainly among the pups I was considering: the stats seemed good, and your description sounded good, though it was tough to find clips -- and eventually Tim recommended me the Crawlers, so I got those. (And they've worked out very well! :))
Still, the Emerald has always seemed to me like a sorely underrepresented pup! Maybe the long-awaited site update, with more detailed info and more clips (didn't we hear new clips were recorded, like, a year or so ago?) will give the Emerald a bit of a boost.
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I archived a bunch of notes culled from forum posts. :)
Ha, I do that too!! :lol: Now where's my anorak?
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^ Oh...My...God ^
Whats wrong with your memories?!
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Whats wrong with your memories?!
I've got a great memory - for things I read years ago. If it's stuff I read last week, that's more of a problem. Just you wait a few years, sonny.... :wink:
But seriously, there's an awful lot of stuff on the forum, some of it's contradictory and some of it's just plain wrong. And sometimes I remember the wrong stuff as if it was right... There's the search engine, but it often returns just too many hits.
So, if I read something particularly useful - usually a comment from Tim, perhaps describing the specific differences between 2 or 3 pickups, I make a note of it. Saves asking those questions people have asked 50 times before.
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But seriously, there's an awful lot of stuff on the forum, some of it's contradictory
Yes
and some of it's just plain wrong.
YES!
And sometimes I remember the wrong stuff as if it was right... There's the search engine, but it often returns just too many hits.
NOOOO!
The search function is our friend. I would prefer an advanced search, but while I'm at it let's move the whole forum into vBulletin and update the site, too, while I'm dreaming!! PFT_008
So, if I read something particularly useful - usually a comment from Tim, perhaps describing the specific differences between 2 or 3 pickups, I make a note of it. Saves asking those questions people have asked 50 times before.
Not a bad system.
However, I prefer the just-go-to-Phil-King's-house-and-try-some-of-his-guitars-because-
he-has-every-bloody-BKP-anyway method lol
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However, I prefer the just-go-to-Phil-King's-house-and-try-some-of-his-guitars-because-
he-has-every-bloody-BKP-anyway method lol
ooo, that should be a BKP standard feature :P
Although I can't imagine that would be convenient for him
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However, I prefer the just-go-to-Phil-King's-house-and-try-some-of-his-guitars-because-
he-has-every-bloody-BKP-anyway method lol
ooo, that should be a BKP standard feature :P
Although I can't imagine that would be convenient for him
LOL, true.
Good thing we're blood bruthas!!
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I've been thinking of getting an AV Emerald / AIV Mule combo for ages, but it just occurred to me that the Abraxas neck might (or might not!) be a better match output-wise.
It would be more than just 'fine' :wink:
Think about the Rebel Yells;
- neck pickup: 8,3k
- bridge pickup 14,45k
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even they balance fine output-wise
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And sometimes I remember the wrong stuff as if it was right... There's the search engine, but it often returns just too many hits.
NOOOO!
The search function is our friend. I would prefer an advanced search, but while I'm at it let's move the whole forum into vBulletin and update the site, too, while I'm dreaming!!
The search function is indeed my friend... but not, perhaps, my best friend. You know what it's like, you put in "Emerald Neck" and it finds every thread talking about the Emerald bridge and every-other-Neck-model-except-the-bloody-Emerald. And maybe one that actually refers to the Emerald Neck.
But these things are sent to try us.
Not a bad system.
However, I prefer the just-go-to-Phil-King's-house-and-try-some-of-his-guitars-because-
he-has-every-bloody-BKP-anyway method lol
Easy for you! However, until they perfect the instant teleporter I shall have to resort to trial and error. :wink: :(
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I've been thinking of getting an AV Emerald / AIV Mule combo for ages, but it just occurred to me that the Abraxas neck might (or might not!) be a better match output-wise.
Of course it would be fine :wink:
Think about the Rebel Yells;
- neck pickup: 8,3k
- bridge pickup 14,45k
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even they balance fine output-wise
And many other combos matching higher output bridge with lower output neck pups have been used with great success.
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I've been thinking of getting an AV Emerald / AIV Mule combo for ages, but it just occurred to me that the Abraxas neck might (or might not!) be a better match output-wise.
Of course it would be fine :wink:
Think about the Rebel Yells;
- neck pickup: 8,3k
- bridge pickup 14,45k
----------------------------
even they balance fine output-wise
And many other combos matching higher output bridge with lower output neck pups have been used with great success.
Indeed. Like the Crawlers (7.6K, 15.5K or thereabouts).
So I guess I could go either Mule or Abraxas (or... whatever). I'll probably get a set of Mules in the near(ish) future anyway, so when I eventually get an Emerald bridge I'll go with whatever neck pickup I've decided I like best (maybe even an Emerald neck :wink: , but I do like the combination of AV bridge and AIV neck).
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And many other combos matching higher output bridge with lower output neck pups have been used with great success.
Yeah, that's really true. To me it even sounds 'better' when using a low output neck pickup together with a (medium) higher output bridge pickup...
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From my experience the neck pickup is always the one that dominates in terms of volume (being warmer and bigger), so it's always a good thing having a bridge pickup with higher output for better volume balance between the two pickups.
A higher output bridge pickup has more volume than a lower output bridge pickup in most cases. All the volume and balance problems I had with my pickups were over when I started using bridge pickups with medium/high output instead of low/medium output. They just seem to have more volume to them and they don't get lost by the bigger range from the neck pickup.
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Whats wrong with your memories?!
It's ....
Ah, wait, no ....
I forget! 8)
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Indeed. Like the Crawlers (7.6K, 15.5K or thereabouts).
So I guess I could go either Mule or Abraxas (or... whatever). I'll probably get a set of Mules in the near(ish) future anyway, so when I eventually get an Emerald bridge I'll go with whatever neck pickup I've decided I like best (maybe even an Emerald neck :wink: , but I do like the combination of AV bridge and AIV neck).
I think an AIV Mule would be awesome together with an AV Emerald!
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maybe even an Emerald neck :wink:
Radical! Has anyone -- even PhilKing -- got an Emerald neck!? :)
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Radical! Has anyone -- even PhilKing -- got an Emerald neck!? :)
There's a guy called Chris O'Donnell with a set of Emeralds, he posted a great clip called (I think) Pansy Potter - which may or may not still be on the forum.
And sgmypod has a set too.
(I didn't need to consult my notes to remember those. :wink: )
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Oh, right -- I'm sure I remember listening to "Pansy Potter", back in the day!
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My guitar is due back from the store on Wednesday.
I'll work on getting an Emerald neck clip up, as soon as I can figure out the best way to do it.
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Excellent! Waiting in anxiety. The Emerald clips I did hear were definitely great (sgmypod had some good ones) but I couldn't really get a clear picture of what it sounded like.
Just an idea, how do you reckon a "double Lizzy" with CS bridge and Emmy neck would work? Some say the Emerald isn't very tight sounding, which the CS certainly is (got a good idea of what this pickup sounds like from Twilight's clips) so it might actually be a great combo I think.
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There's a guy called Chris O'Donnell with a set of Emeralds, he posted a great clip called (I think) Pansy Potter - which may or may not still be on the forum.
It should be -- the only BK clips that were removed were those specifically requested by the poster to Ol to have them taken off.