Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: 5F6-A on December 05, 2007, 07:12:38 PM
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Most people using BKP P/Us ( or at least those using the forum ) tend to play heavy music. Is it the way things are going these days? Are most guitar players these days lead towards metal music?
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I lean to the Blues (older and current) and older Blues/ Rock music (late 60's early 70's). Lately, the distortion slowly slips out my sound as I begin to enjoy the organic tone of the guitar and amp more than an overdriven tone.
I just upgraded a Tele with Fender Texas Specials and vintage volume and tone knobs with better wiring. Sounds great! My other Tele still has stock pickups because I'm waiting for the Strat to sell to use that money towards upgrading it. I haven't made up my mind on what pickups I want to go with in that Tele, yet.
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I don't know. There are a fair few metal players on this forum, but look closely and I'm sure you'll find there are a lot of people who are into many other forms of music, guitar based or otherwise.
For example, there was a thread a few months back, which ran to a couple of pages, that was dedicated to discussion of Americana.
I think the impression you have may simply be because a lot of the metal guys post frequently, and record a fair few clips.
You are right though, BKPs seem to be very popular among metal players - I think this may be because so many of the company's humbuckers are excellent pickups for metal of one style or another.
Metal has certainly undergone something of a resurgence in popularity in recent years - nu-metal was revolted against by a new crop of traditionally-influenced, technical metal bands for whom a high degree of instrumental proficiency is a badge of honour. This might be a reason why so many 'serious' players like their metal.
Personally, I love metal in most of its forms - classic (Old Metallica/Priest/Maiden) to modern (Nevermore/Nile/Opeth). However, it's not all I listen to. I also love listening to (and playing) blues, americana, country, classic and hard rock. I also like innovative acoustic players like Tommy Emmanuel and Newton Faulkner.
Variety is fun after all. :)
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There seems a fair few on here, but I play mostly old fashioned rock & roll in the covers band I'm in now, but what I actually want to play is just rock/blues/country...nothing specific :wink:
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Metal? hah! Gimmie some AoR anyday, Hheeeeatt of the moment!
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What is 'Americana' in music?
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Americana is best described as American 'roots' music - not quite folk, not quite country, but disctinctly American. Good definition here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(music)
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Ah hah!
Thanks, Simon.
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i don't like much metal, but i do think guitar music is going that way - amps keep coming out with more and more gain (i.e. the new marshall JVM's advert says something like "the most gain ever found on a Marshall").
People want to keep pushing the boundaries, and it seems like the only way they can think to do that is by turning up the gain and making the most 'br00talZ' super heavy death metalcore...
Saying that though; i think it's something people will grow out of in time, as there's a lot of 'bedroom' valve amps coming about recently - i reckon people will start to realize the satisfaction that comes from playing into a lil valve amp with more moderate amounts of gain. Another thing that seems to happen is that people's tastes mellow in time; I used to listen to a lot of heavy music, and play a lot of heavy music, but now i feel like I've outgrown it, it all got a bit boring and samey. whereas before i was all Ibanez -> Mesa with full gain, nowadays I'm finding myself going LP -> JCM800 with high master low pre. Hell, I'm even saving for a Tele :D
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I listen to lots of different styles of music, but tend to play blues and classic rock, with a sprinkling of English folk, Celtic and pop.
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When I lost my anger, I lost my interest in metal.
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Seems like Tim advertises the metal ones more i think, all the adverts for BKP's i've seen in mags and stuff were for Warpigs and Nailbombs etc. with camo designs, which will definatley bring in more metallers because it sounds good and looks awesome and unique.
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There's probably something in that - the first ad I ever saw for BKP was the Nailbomb one. They've been advertising the PG Blues set a fair bit recently though - trying to get the blues/jazz market sown up too! Power to 'em, I say.
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As far as I can see, BK are one of the few custom pickup builders that have a decent (i.e. easily the best) range of metal pickups, so of course youre gonna see the metalheads (like me) here.
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I always see stormy monday ads...
I reckon the Warpig is probably the 'flagship' or at least the most well know of the BKPs, mainly due its very striking and individual appearance.
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I've noticed a high number of guitar talkers on many forums, not just this one.
As for the number of guitar players, and what styles they are playing? That I don't know about ...
Go to any forum for aftermarket ancillary devices, such as pickups, and you will have a much broader range of styles than that of particular guitars or amplifiers.
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:D Like a lot of the guys on the boards here i love my Metal but i play many different styles. Metal is the only music form driven by guitars. Hence most forums will tend to be Metal heavy with the people that frequent the boards. As it goes BK P/U`s are great as guitar pups regardless of what music you make. I play every week live in a little duo, we do songs from the 50`s up to the modern day & my Mules, VH11`s can handle everything without a problem & all with a great sound/tone to. We also have plenty of other types of players as well on the boards & its always good to hear there clips & talk to `em on the boards to.
:D 8)
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Metal is the only music form driven by guitars.
errrr, what!? :?
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:D Yer not to clear was I !! :lol: :lol: :lol:
What i ment was serious players will tend towards guitar driven music & Metal is about as guitar driven as you can get. I`ve never heard of a metal band that didn`t have a guitar in it. But could name off of the top of my head half a dozen pop bands that only used guitars in passing. This is a specific forum, not many guitarists will frequent a pickup forum most will be on guitar based sites ie: Fender, Ibanez, or more specifically a music genre site, say i dedicated Metal site or indie music site etc etc. Yep it means us lot are wierd !! :wink: But i like you all none the less ! :P
again its great to hear from the none Metal types on this forum & listen to the clips they record as well. Does that clear it up a bit ? What do `ya think ?
:D 8)
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I love metal... but I don't play it, my band is more "alternative" and grunge-influenced.
We find it increasingly difficult to find gigs in our local area because, from my experience, the live music scene wants three things:
1. Cover bands.
2. Indie.
3. Emo/metal.
All things I will never do, especially cover bands. I would take no pride in playing a song that someone else wrote.
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Does that clear it up a bit ? What do `ya think ?
:D 8)
yeah i reckon you're right that metal is very guitar driven - there is, as you say very few bands i would call 'metal' who don't use guitars.
However, i think genres like the blues, indie music, straight up rock music are all just as guitar driven, if not moreso. It's true that metal usually has the more technical playing that pushes the boundaries of what you can do with a guitar, but not all guitar players aspire to play lightspeed, tap the fretboard, and just generally widdle away to their mates (although most of them do)...
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I dont really play loads of metal myself anymore, but most of my mates who play are into metal, with only a few who dont really like it. I think what we need is a return of the riff, I'm bored of songs with no decent catchy riffs in them.
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When I lost my anger, I lost my interest in metal.
I kinda have the same thing. Occaisonaly I like to rip it up a bit but I mostly play good ol' rock n' roll.
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Something else I've noticed:
A lot of blues, rock, and epecially indie and punk guitarists barely know what colour their guitar is. I'm not making any total generalisations here, I know there are a lot of representatives of those genres here that know exactly what they play through, and a tonne about gear in general. But there are a vast number that havent a clue.
Metallers on the other hand tend to be more gear-savvy in my experience/observation: if someones a metaller theres a better chance they know their gear inside out.
Therefore theres a disproportionate chance that you'll find them on after-market pickups forums!
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I would classify my interests as hard rock really, metal gets samey by my definitions anyway
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Something else I've noticed:
A lot of blues, rock, and epecially indie and punk guitarists barely know what colour their guitar is. I'm not making any total generalisations here, I know there are a lot of representatives of those genres here that know exactly what they play through, and a tonne about gear in general. But there are a vast number that havent a clue.
Metallers on the other hand tend to be more gear-savvy in my experience/observation: if someones a metaller theres a better chance they know their gear inside out.
Therefore theres a disproportionate chance that you'll find them on after-market pickups forums!
I often find the exact opposite, a lot of the "metal" bands round here are so focussed on GAAAAAAAAAAAINRARGH that their sound is just gash.
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And they all play black guitars, so, of course they know what color their guitars are. :D
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I've noticed a high number of guitar talkers on many forums, not just this one.
As for the number of guitar players, and what styles they are playing? That I don't know about ...
Hmm, good thought TO, actually I'm talking more than playing if I'm honest to myself.
Actually I think there are more metalheads on other forums, like HC or rig-talk. I find BKP quite mixed, at least among the most active users it's rather from Blues to 80s Hardrock than "teh brootalz".
But also a fair point that people will be according to the gear available, so if you go to the Diezel forum, there are more people playing metal than in the Orange forum for example.
So it's kinda logical that we have more metal players here than on a Fender forum.
On the other hand, I think Tims lineup is a good representation of all possible guitar styles across the range, and so are his forumites.
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Hmm, good thought TO, actually I'm talking more than playing if I'm honest to myself.
I'm guilty of this as well :oops: I just find myself getting bored of playing fairly quickly these days, so I spend the rest of my time talking about guitars instead :lol:
Actually I think there are more metalheads on other forums, like HC or rig-talk.
HC is actually quite varied. The Amp forum is mostly full of metalheads (and also a lot of tw@ts, whether the two are related or not, I'm not sure :P), Electric Guitars is blues/classic rock/80s metal, and Guitar Jam seems to be a bit of everything.
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Hmm, good thought TO, actually I'm talking more than playing if I'm honest to myself.
I'm guilty of this as well :oops: I just find myself getting bored of playing fairly quickly these days, so I spend the rest of my time talking about guitars instead :lol:
I know what you mean, and I'm the same (x100), but is it something we should feel guilty about? It's only a hobby after all.
I like guitars, I like customising guitars and I like talking about guitars. I like playing guitar too, but I can't do it to save my life. Why? Probably 50% laziness, 25% lack of time and 25% total absence of talent. So OK, I'll never be Richie Kotzen, but so what? Other people blow their money on cars, holidays, booze or drugs, I'm entitled to blow mine on guitars if I want to.
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Going back to the original topic, I'm not sure if guitar players (or talkers) are necessarily heading towards metal or heavy music any more than they were before. Isn't it kind of "natural" to want to rock out when you plug a guitar into an amp? There's just something about the buzz of turning everything up to 10.
Of course loads of people play and love other musical styles, but I suspect most young guys who take up guitar are attracted by The Majesty Of Rock in some shape or form. When I say that, I'm not talking about specific styles like of metal, hard rock, classic rock or whatever - just "rock" in a broad sense.
When you read interviews with younger blues and country guitarists in Guitar Player, most of them were in rock bands as kids. I bet even the coolest sunglasses-after-dark indie guitarists aren't averse to a bit of secret heavy riffing when the mood takes them. It's in the blood. :)
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Hmm, good thought TO, actually I'm talking more than playing if I'm honest to myself.
I'm guilty of this as well :oops: I just find myself getting bored of playing fairly quickly these days, so I spend the rest of my time talking about guitars instead :lol:
I know what you mean, and I'm the same (x100), but is it something we should feel guilty about? It's only a hobby after all.
I like guitars, I like customising guitars and I like talking about guitars. I like playing guitar too, but I can't do it to save my life. Why? Probably 50% laziness, 25% lack of time and 25% total absence of talent. So OK, I'll never be Richie Kotzen, but so what? Other people blow their money on cars, holidays, booze or drugs, I'm entitled to blow mine on guitars if I want to.
*******
Going back to the original topic, I'm not sure if guitar players (or talkers) are necessarily heading towards metal or heavy music any more than they were before. Isn't it kind of "natural" to want to rock out when you plug a guitar into an amp? There's just something about the buzz of turning everything up to 10.
Of course loads of people play and love other musical styles, but I suspect most young guys who take up guitar are attracted by The Majesty Of Rock in some shape or form. When I say that, I'm not talking about specific styles like of metal, hard rock, classic rock or whatever - just "rock" in a broad sense.
When you read interviews with younger blues and country guitarists in Guitar Player, most of them were in rock bands as kids. I bet even the coolest sunglasses-after-dark indie guitarists aren't averse to a bit of secret heavy riffing when the mood takes them. It's in the blood. :)
That's the majesty of rock
The pageantry of roll
The darning of the sock
The scoring of the goal
The farmer takes a wife
The barber takes a pole
We're in this together and ever-er-er-er-er-er-er
Woah-oah-oah-oah-oah
Sorry :oops:
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I think BB King can say more with 3 notes than most of the current bunch of metallers can say with 3 thousand!...........does that show what I use my BKP's for? :D
I'm a blues into classic sometimes hard rock fan. I did have a brief flirtation with metal whilst I was in Uni, but I grew up and realised that playing 1 million notes a minute didn't necessarily make you a superb guitarist. Yes it makes the kiddies stop and drool in the shops, but who wants a whole load of pre-pubescent kids hanging around you whilst you're trying out some new gear?
I also have no means of recording my stuff, and to be honest am not too bothered about doing it as the guitar is my hobby. I'm a far superior singer than I'll ever be a guitarist (I'm playing Don Giovanni in Mozarts Don Giovanni early next year to give you an idea of my standard of singing!). I'm never going to be the next SRV or Clapton so I don't bother even trying......as long as I'm happy, and my friends who listen to me enjoy it then I'm not fussed
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I've had my run with metal, hard rock, classic rock, and finally falling into the Blues. I always dabbled with the Blues, but never let it completely take me over. I find it harder learning to slow down and actually phrase than to just burn it. Restraint is one of the hardest things to learn and is sort of unteachable in a way. I considered electro-shock therapy, but since I'm a wimp I couldn't imagine dealing with the pain.
One and half million notes.....ZZZzzzzzzztttt.....Ow!
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Some players play too fast and play way too many notes for me to be able to hear or appreciate what their tone is like.
I love to hear the sound of a note or a chord being struck and how it blooms and decays. Not against hearing either a melodic or aggressive flow of notes either, but some dynamics are appreciated.
It is then and only then that you can her the difference that different woods and pickups make IMO
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I suspect most young guys who take up guitar are attracted by The Majesty Of Rock in some shape or form.
That's the majesty of rock
The pageantry of roll
The darning of the sock
The scoring of the goal
The farmer takes a wife
The barber takes a pole
We're in this together and ever-er-er-er-er-er-er
Woah-oah-oah-oah-oah
Sorry :oops:
That's exactly why I said that! :lol:
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In my highly unscientific experience, I would say that the largest groups I see on guitar-oriented forums are players of, if not out'n'out metal, "heavy" rock-like music -- and also of blues. I dunno if there's something in the psychology of these styles that also attracts gearheads. :) But you see the same kinds of things if you look at online communities for, say, sharing user-settings for amp simulators and such like. There are rafts and rafts of metalish and blues patches ....
I wouldn't want to guess that the majority of guitars out there are playing metal, but certainly a lot of their players are keen on tweaking their setups -- or at least talking about tweaking their setups :)
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I can't remember the last time I learned a rock song. I've been working on my blues playing for a while now. I finally committed myself to playing Swamp Pop at home. It's double the practice cause I'm learning new melodies that I have to figure out by ear. There are no tabs for Swamp Pop.
I find myself backing the gain down on my amp every few weeks too.
The music I listen to now is totally different than what I was listening to a few years ago. I find myself buying music that came out in the 60s and 70s. I just got the Beano album, which I love!
Not that I have anything against metal. I still listen to it from time to time.
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Speed is not the enemy of melody.
Speed is a tool USED for Melody.
Look at people like GG, and Al Di, some of the fastest runs you'll find on guitar, but still incredibly melodic.
I hate when people get angry at fast guitarists, claiming that they're lacking any melody, or any "feel".
Speed and technique isn't related at all to melody or feel, it's about what you play. Not how fast you play it.
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Speed is not the enemy of melody.
Speed is a tool USED for Melody.
Look at people like GG, and Al Di, some of the fastest runs you'll find on guitar, but still incredibly melodic.
I hate when people get angry at fast guitarists, claiming that they're lacking any melody, or any "feel".
Speed and technique isn't related at all to melody or feel, it's about what you play. Not how fast you play it.
Don't know if your post was in reply to mine but I wasn't against speed
I merely stated that when players play fast all the time you don't get to hear a note or chord bloom and decay which is the tonal signature of any instrument in my opinion
But on the subject of speed:
I have plenty of records in my collection with very fast playing and was a fan of Malmsteen from his first albums too.
Guthrie and Di Miola are fine players , but there are many plyrs who have speed but poor note selection.
I was even a fan of Vinnie Vincent in his day, and whilst I loved his riffs and songwriting his soloing was complete and utter tasteless wank.
Speed in itself is not thrilling to me, but the ability to go from 0-60 at the drop of a hat is. It's the change in dynamics that does it for me and all the better if it also remains melodic in some way in my opinion
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Speed is not the enemy of melody.
Speed is a tool USED for Melody.
Look at people like GG, and Al Di, some of the fastest runs you'll find on guitar, but still incredibly melodic.
I hate when people get angry at fast guitarists, claiming that they're lacking any melody, or any "feel".
Speed and technique isn't related at all to melody or feel, it's about what you play. Not how fast you play it.
Don't know if your post was in reply to mine but I wasn't against speed
I merely stated that when players play fast all the time you don't get to hear a note or chord bloom and decay which is the tonal signature of any instrument in my opinion
But on the subject of speed:
I have plenty of records in my collection with very fast playing and was a fan of Malmsteen from his first albums too.
Guthrie and Di Miola are fine players , but there are many plyrs who have speed but poor note selection.
I was even a fan of Vinnie Vincent in his day, and whilst I loved his riffs and songwriting his soloing was complete and utter tasteless wank.
Speed in itself is not thrilling to me, but the ability to go from 0-60 at the drop of a hat is. It's the change in dynamics that does it for me and all the better if it also remains melodic in some way in my opinion
I think if anything, speed opens up a whole new world of melodic techniques and licks, although it's as you say, the note selection of alot of guitarists is extremely poor, which is why I raised the point that's it's what you play that's important, not how fast you play it.
Alot of the metal sequencing which you see in fast runs, sounds terrible played slow - And that's not really as it should be. Guitar shouldn't be about awe inspiring with fast notes, it's the notes themselves that are important. Speed should only help you towards better melody - not take you away from it.
And if you're a guitarist that's reading this, and thinking to yourself that you know exactly what I'm talking about, and that you suffer from the same problems, that you have great technique, and no melodic control, there are several things I do when trying to be more melodic, one of my favourite, is to get a jamming track, and choose 2 strings anywhere on the guitar, usually one string, and the one either above or below strings, (however, string skipping is another brilliant melodic technique, so if you're more ambitious, you could try another set of strings) and then try play to a backing track of some sort while trying to play on only those 2 strings. I find that it's alot easier to play melodically if you reduce the pallette you're working with, and thus you can branch on from there, 3 strings, 4, etc untill you begin recognising all the key points of alot of scales and licks - Like learning to abuse pedalling of the major 7th in a Harmonic minor scale, etc.
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I've noticed a high number of guitar talkers on many forums, not just this one.
As for the number of guitar players, and what styles they are playing? That I don't know about ...
Hmm, good thought TO, actually I'm talking more than playing if I'm honest to myself.
Surely nobody has got to justify being a 'talker' on a forum.
Wilkepedia definition -"An Internet forum is a web application for holding discussions and posting user generated content." ...doesn't 'discussions' include 'talking'. If you are a 'guitarist' can't you 'talk' about it?
As well as being an excellent guitarist surely TO, with over 4500 posts on this forum on subjects as diverse as Scotch, BKP drink up, computer games etc.etc, must class himself as a talker.
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Some players play too fast and play way too many notes for me to be able to hear or appreciate what their tone is like.
I love to hear the sound of a note or a chord being struck and how it blooms and decays. Not against hearing either a melodic or aggressive flow of notes either, but some dynamics are appreciated.
It is then and only then that you can her the difference that different woods and pickups make IMO
Amen!
Also, some people should use a little less distortion. It will make the guitar's tone 'breathe' more.
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I agree with using speed at the appropriate time. In a tune, I enjoy a nice burner here and there. It keeps it interesting as a listener.
Less is more is a hard thing to learn. I also agree on the point of limiting oneself. It is sort of like writing an essay. You pick a subject, come up with a thesis, and support your ideas with excellent points, instead of just writing randomly.
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I was even a fan of Vinnie Vincent in his day, and whilst I loved his riffs and songwriting his soloing was complete and utter tasteless wank.
+1!
...and beautifully put! :lol:
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I would just say more teenagers use the internet and more teenagers play metal than anything else, all BKP's adverts in magazines advertise them as "50s tone".. so to me that suggests the Metal Market isn't anywhere near the whole picture.
But i'd say its definatly popular on this forum.