Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: CJ on December 09, 2007, 02:55:20 AM
-
Hey guys, first of all, thanks for your time.
for my high school entrepreneurship class we have to come up with a business proposal. the idea is that we have everything figured out well enough that theoretically we could start the business if we had the money and everything. anyway, its a group project and our idea was kind of a mix of stuff- a guitar store/ coffee shop. Yeah i know i stole this from someone here (was it twinfan?) but i hope you don't mind. Its just a project, and we're in different countries anyway. First, are there any guitar store owners here? How much of a discount do dealers get on guitars? we need to know start up costs. Generally, what would be the profit margin of a medium sized guitar store?
Also, i need to interview 10 potential customers. I figured here was the best place to do that.
1) Does a guitar store/ coffee shop sound more appealing to you than a regular guitar store?
2) If there was a band that played nightly, or on weekends, would you see a guitar store/coffee shop as a good place to hang out and buy food/drinks?
3) Would you take guitar lessons from such a store, or would you rather have an independent instructor?
4) If the store bought and sold used gear, would you look into selling you gear there, or would you be more inclined to sell on online sites such as EBay or other auction sites? prices would be competitive and hassle free.
5) Would you overall see this store as a hangout place, either by yourself, or with friends?
6) If we offer to order in any products that we either do not have or do not usually stock, would you rather buy from us, or would you simply buy online?
7) If you are in a band, would you like to play in such a store, or would you rather play in the usual environments, such as bars?
thanks for your time guys.
-
1) Does a guitar store/ coffee shop sound more appealing to you than a regular guitar store?
Yes, although as mentioned in the previous thread, you may want to be careful about sticky guitars. I'd prefer A nice large area with the coffee and guitar areas split by some space which you could sit and chat in, and then you could put the stage there.
2) If there was a band that played nightly, or on weekends, would you see a guitar store/coffee shop as a good place to hang out and buy food/drinks?
Yes, at weekends. Although it depends on your local music scene, If you have loads of bands willing to play often, you could do gigs 3 times a week- metal wednesday or something like that.
3) Would you take guitar lessons from such a store, or would you rather have an independent instructor?
I'm happy with my teacher, but If I wasn't having lessons I'd go to a shop first, as long as there was a seperate room somewhere to practice.
4) If the store bought and sold used gear, would you look into selling you gear there, or would you be more inclined to sell on online sites such as EBay or other auction sites? prices would be competitive and hassle free.
No. I don't think you could offer competitive margins for people looking to sell their instruments. what you could do however, is charge a small amount for selling a guitar on ebay for them, with a professional layout and better feedback
5)Would you overall see this store as a hangout place, either by yourself, or with friends?
depends on the kind of people you bring in. I don't go down to the local "alternative" hangout because it's stuffed to the brim with scene kids, and I usually and up slagging off fall out boy and getting into fights.
6) If we offer to order in any products that we either do not have or do not usually stock, would you rather buy from us, or would you simply buy online?
I'd rather buy online. If I can't try before I buy instore, then the advantage is gone and I may as well get a cheaper price off the net.
7) If you are in a band, would you like to play in such a store, or would you rather play in the usual environments, such as bars?
Same as question 5. I don't want to play there if it's full of idiots, but I'd do a set on a rock or indie night.
-
Here's my two cents:
1) Does a guitar store/ coffee shop sound more appealing to you than a regular guitar store? - I quite like the idea, but it could cost more to staff than a regular guitar shop, assuming you're not going to have the same staff selling guitars and serving the coffee. Start up costs will also be higher, because of buying the cafe gear. You will also need to provide toilet facilities, which could add to cost. You would also need to take a look at security issues - stopping people from taking unpaid-for goods into the loos, for example.
2) If there was a band that played nightly, or on weekends, would you see a guitar store/coffee shop as a good place to hang out and buy food/drinks? - To be honest, I wouldn't see it as a place to go in the evenings. The main reason for this is it probably wouldn't be serving alcohol - getting a license for the kind of venue you're describing could be tricky, and you probably wouldn't want a load of drunk rowdy people near your potentially expensive guitar stock. However, the younger crowd who can't get into pubs anyway might be more enthusiastic.
3) Would you take guitar lessons from such a store, or would you rather have an independent instructor? - It would depend entirely on the quality of the tution, the cost, and whether the teacher could teach me styles I have an interest in.
4) If the store bought and sold used gear, would you look into selling you gear there, or would you be more inclined to sell on online sites such as EBay or other auction sites? prices would be competitive and hassle free. - Taking trade in gear is a good idea - (I couldn't have got my US Strat without a trade-in). However, to make a profit, you will need to give the bare minimum on the trade-in. I would rather sell gear via free-ads or Ebay.
5) Would you overall see this store as a hangout place, either by yourself, or with friends? - No. But then, at 26, I've done the 'hanging out in music stores on Saturday afternoon' thing. However, that wouldn't stop me going in for a cup of coffee and a browse.
6) If we offer to order in any products that we either do not have or do not usually stock, would you rather buy from us, or would you simply buy online? - Good customer service is essential, and if a store is prepared to go that extra mile, then yes, I'll give them my business. Particularly if they get in something they don't normally stock. I'm trying to find somewhere to test out a Mesa Roadster at the moment, and it's a nightmare, because no-one has them in stock.
7) If you are in a band, would you like to play in such a store, or would you rather play in the usual environments, such as bars? - I'm not currently in a band, but I have been. I think most of the people I've played with would rather play a pub/club/bar gig than a shop. That's by no means definitive though.
-
thanks for the replies and ideas guys. the alcohol thing i was contemplating. if we coffee shop/ stage was in a separate room than the guitars, i don't think drunk people should be too big of a problem. also, with the buying and selling used gear, i think i wouldn't really be looking to make a profit. I think that would be just another way to get some more people coming in and out of the store and hope to get their money on other stuff.
thanks
-
1) Yes ( coffee & guitars ? mmmmmm ! ) From a marketing point of view, I can imagine that the store would be better placed to capture the wavering buyer if they where deciding whether or not to buy over a coffee on the premises instead of leaving the store to drink e.t.c
2) Not really. Ordinary socialising takes place in established types of venue. I can imagine a store environ would rush the socialising process, such as it already does in bookstores.
3) No. I would probably seek specialist instruction elsewhere, if at all. However - tuition of a more generic nature would probably encourage sales for beginners if the rates where made attractive by ( for example ) group tuition. I can imagine a certain social scene would spring up around that end of the market.
4) Yes. I would welcome the return of second hand gear stores. They used to be in the majority when I first started out. Not being an e:bay wizard, I would like to do things the old way - with negotiation and sales in 'real time' .
5) No. I would NOT see it as a hangout place, but would visit much more regularly than a typical modern guitar supermarket. I would use it as the keystone of my buying and selling ( while it kept ethical ).
6) I would prefer to buy from your store if prices and marketing strategies are kept reasonably honest and consistent . Trying out an instrument is good - and sometimes the ideal guitar is not the one you initially went in for. Online buying is a great advance in money saving, but whilst goods can be returned under 'distance selling' regulations - there is nothing to beat trying lots of different guitars together at point of sale.
7) I feel that I would rather play in "the usual environments" to capture a wider and more appreciative audience . Listeners who enjoy a gig for the overall sound / feel / atmosphere are usually non players. To me, a captive circle of musicians can sometimes just be a technical pi**ing contest.
I.E.
Q : How many musicians does it take to change a light bulb ?
A : 10 , 1 to change the bulb and 9 to say they could have done it better
Y.M.M.V
-
thanks for the responses feline.
ps. good joke. funny cuz its true.
-
could anyone else please take the time to answer these questions?
thank you
-
1) Yes, gives a place for whoever you're with to sit around when you do what you do.
2) Sure, if it was local - If it was way far away I don't know if I'd bother.
3) Nay, I'd much rather have private lessons.
4) Personally, I'd much rather sell to a shop than on Ebay - Less complications, and no need to worry about Delivery etc.
5) Probably yeah, but I'm a guitarist, with lots of guitarist friends - It also depends on the atmosphere given off by the staff, alot of shops aren't too welcoming to young people.
6) I personally wouldn't do that - It'd make me feel awkwerd, and give obligation to buy it, if you didn't have an item, I'd go somewhere else.
7) That depends on the size, the atmosphere, the popularity - If it was a good stage, with a large open area, and good people - then Sure, why not?
-
Callme,
I worked in a music store and although I didn't own it, I did have privy to the prices and can shed light on cost of music gear and the mark up. I also was the repairman, doing regular string changes, setups, and pickup swaps and let me tell you, I made good money being the repairman and earning a commission on sales. I would say advertising that you have a repairman is another good idea to think about. To offer good customer service, if I had the time, I would do the repairs with the customer next to me explaining what I was doing, another example of socializing at a music store as many who were not even their would hang out by the repair bench to 'tech' talk or learn things about guitars/ basses. It was also a ploy to build my name and get more business. First, mark up, an example, the store bought an American Standard Strat for $450 from Fender then marked it up to about $1200, and after discounts to make the customer think he was getting a deal, to $1,000, roughly coming out to 125% markup (the ever faithful list price versus sales price game). In order to sell Fenders or Gibsons, you have to obtain a license from those companies. Gibson is really tough because they want half your stock to be their merchandise. If you're someone offering a variety, having half your stock Gibsons can be expensive, which was the case with the music store I worked in.
I've been to an example of the business you're speaking of in the Washington D.C. area. This place was called the Jamming Java. Selling musical instruments didn't last long, but I think their problem was that they sold high end guitars like Les Pauls and the Warrior series instruments. This place was also a Christian place and the acts that played their were all Christian musicians. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but to each their own. Before I left the area to move back to Louisiana, they got rid of all the guitars and were only selling accessories. Anyway, to your questions. I hope I don't sound negative, I just want to give you another side of it from a business perspective.
1) Does a guitar store/ coffee shop sound more appealing to you than a regular guitar store?
To me personally, no. I like hanging out at both places, but I wouldn't want to have a drink and hear 50 million teenagers playing 'Seek and Destroy' over and over or have someone tell me to lower the amp because they are trying to study or have conversation. You also add the complexity of having to hire people specialised in both music knowledge and coffee service. So not only do you have to train them on music gear tech stuff, but then they'll have to learn how to make cappucinos, mochas, lattes, expresso, hot chocolate, and such. Are you going to offer desserts, too?
2) If there was a band that played nightly, or on weekends, would you see a guitar store/coffee shop as a good place to hang out and buy food/drinks?
This part I like and the Jammin' Java did it well with a small stage in the rear of the place. If you're going to have bands, just don't make it the ear piercing types. The bands I saw there played at comfortable levels. A coffee house gives images of relaxation and atmosphere, I would stick with bands of that theme. Bands can still play rock and sound great at comfortable levels. Also, most people at coffee houses are there to socialize which they can't do if the band is loud.
3) Would you take guitar lessons from such a store, or would you rather have an independent instructor?
That would depend on the quality of instructors there. But, as someone mentioned, maybe you could cater to the beginning musician with lessons and gear (sell low to medium quality instruments).
4) If the store bought and sold used gear, would you look into selling you gear there, or would you be more inclined to sell on online sites such as EBay or other auction sites? prices would be competitive and hassle free.
When you sell gear at a music store, the music store is the one who benefits. A music store is only going to offer you a third of the value of your instrument, then mark it up. So for example, they'll buy your instrument for a $100 and then sell it to someone else for $300. The music store will never take a loss when buying used gear. Plus, they know you're either desperate or too lazy to sell and will take advantage of it. You'll always get twice the amount if you sell your self through the paper or online.
5) Would you overall see this store as a hangout place, either by yourself, or with friends?
Depends on the atmosphere, entertainment, management.
6) If we offer to order in any products that we either do not have or do not usually stock, would you rather buy from us, or would you simply buy online?
I'm too impatient to wait for a store to order something for me. I always go the online route.
7) If you are in a band, would you like to play in such a store, or would you rather play in the usual environments, such as bars?
Again, depends on the place. I like the idea of playing in coffee houses and have enjoyed some of the shows I've seen at Barnes and Noble and Borders. I wouldn't play in a biker bar.
-
Remembered one last thing, and this relates to business in general. In the beginning when you're coming up with your business plan, keep it simple. The more complex the idea the harder it will be to succeed. So, think about what you want to do, narrow it down to essentials first. As the business grows and you start making profit, add extras. An example:
The coffee house idea with the musical acts is good. Define who you want playing there that captures the idea of your business. With the music gear, appeal to the beginner at first with low to medium quality instruments and when business grows where you have more money to invest, or people begin to ask about Gibsons, American Fenders, PRSs, hence the interest is there, buy into those products.
You also have to think about advertisement. How are you going to let people know you are there and what you offer? Newspapers? Flyers? Word of mouth?
-
1) Does a guitar store/ coffee shop sound more appealing to you than a regular guitar store?
A little I guess, but it wouldn't exactlybe a deal breaker either way. I don't see any guitarists not going because you don't have a coffee shop. Of course, if your coffee is good enough, you might attract new non-players, who might decide to start playing.
2) If there was a band that played nightly, or on weekends, would you see a guitar store/coffee shop as a good place to hang out and buy food/drinks?
guess so, if they were any good.
3) Would you take guitar lessons from such a store, or would you rather have an independent instructor?
depends how good the instructor is.
4) If the store bought and sold used gear, would you look into selling you gear there, or would you be more inclined to sell on online sites such as EBay or other auction sites? prices would be competitive and hassle free.
depends how good prices you offer. if you sold on commission (i.e. you get a percentage of the sale price, not "oh, that's only worth £40" then you call in next day and see a £500 sticker on it!), i'd probably prefer that to ebay, yeah. some people are willing to pay for handiness (me included), but most aren't willing to slash their profits to do so.
5) Would you overall see this store as a hangout place, either by yourself, or with friends?
I guess so. If i had any friends. who played guitar.
6) If we offer to order in any products that we either do not have or do not usually stock, would you rather buy from us, or would you simply buy online?
probably not, i had a bad experience with that in the past where i ended up waiting several months. if you would order stuff in, without the obligation to buy, that might be different. as long as it didn't take too long.
7) If you are in a band, would you like to play in such a store, or would you rather play in the usual environments, such as bars?
i'm not in a band, so i can't really answer this one.
Sorry for the slightly indecisive answers, but like most things, it depends on a lot of variables. :)
-
thanks for the responses noodle, roho, and dave. Roho, i was actually thinking that exact thing with the repairman. i have that in my business plan, just couldn't think of any questions to ask you guys about that.
and i guess theres some confusion about the lessons. We'd have multiple private instructors each in separate little rooms to give instructions. This way theres most likely going to be someone knowledgeable about your genre of music. Also, for the bands, i was thinking of like having a different style band play on different nights to attract different customers, and to not piss unexpecting people off. Like metal mondays...etc..
-
anyone else please? i still need a few more.
thanks.
-
1) Does a guitar store/ coffee shop sound more appealing to you than a regular guitar store?
Not really, no.
2) If there was a band that played nightly, or on weekends, would you see a guitar store/coffee shop as a good place to hang out and buy food/drinks?
I've never really imagined live music and coffee would go that well... but I'd certainly give it a try.
3) Would you take guitar lessons from such a store, or would you rather have an independent instructor?
I would but only if they were on a one-to-one basis.
4) If the store bought and sold used gear, would you look into selling you gear there, or would you be more inclined to sell on online sites such as EBay or other auction sites? prices would be competitive and hassle free.
I would always prefer to sell face-to-face rather than the added price of listing on ebay, paying postage, etc...
5) Would you overall see this store as a hangout place, either by yourself, or with friends?
I'm sure some people would go for it but I doubt many of my mates would. I might, as I said, to try it out and see.
6) If we offer to order in any products that we either do not have or do not usually stock, would you rather buy from us, or would you simply buy online?
That'd be a big perk... but most decent stores would do that anyway.
7) If you are in a band, would you like to play in such a store, or would you rather play in the usual environments, such as bars?
Sure, it'd be different.
-
1) Does a guitar store/ coffee shop sound more appealing to you than a regular guitar store?
I see coffee places as somewhere to go when cold, then bugger off, so not particularly
2) If there was a band that played nightly, or on weekends, would you see a guitar store/coffee shop as a good place to hang out and buy food/drinks?
Depends what kind of band, personally I prefer singing people not screaming, and so most local band things I find annoying. An acoustic stage would be appealing to me, as its far more peaceful
3) Would you take guitar lessons from such a store, or would you rather have an independent instructor?
Maybe, usual answers, but don't really take lessons anyway, occasionally, if it was closer than another teacher
4) If the store bought and sold used gear, would you look into selling you gear there, or would you be more inclined to sell on online sites such as EBay or other auction sites? prices would be competitive and hassle free
Sounds better than the other options for selling.
5) Would you overall see this store as a hangout place, either by yourself, or with friends?
Not really
6) If we offer to order in any products that we either do not have or do not usually stock, would you rather buy from us, or would you simply buy online?
online, sorry...
7) If you are in a band, would you like to play in such a store, or would you rather play in the usual environments, such as bars?
unsure, really depends on the enviroment
-
1) Does a guitar store/ coffee shop sound more appealing to you than a regular guitar store?
Possibly so but that said, it wouldn't attract me particularly.I am looking for gear not coffeee but it might enable me to bring the missus and plonk her down on a table whilst I damage my bank balance.
2) If there was a band that played nightly, or on weekends, would you see a guitar store/coffee shop as a good place to hang out and buy food/drinks?
For me no as I am at the stage where I get to the venue, set up, play and hang around only long enough to get my money. When I was younger, hanging around with other bands was something I did as I wanted to know what was going on and I used to look for opportunities to get the best players locally together. There wwere store/clubs where it was cool to hang out in and so a qualified yes-but not for me now being an old git and all.
3) Would you take guitar lessons from such a store, or would you rather have an independent instructor?
I might go there to find a teacher but I doubt whether I would actually go there to learn-unless they had a proper environment for it.
4) If the store bought and sold used gear, would you look into selling you gear there, or would you be more inclined to sell on online sites such as EBay or other auction sites? prices would be competitive and hassle free
For me that would be a good thing cos I cannot be arsed with flogging stuff.
5) Would you overall see this store as a hangout place, either by yourself, or with friends?
I would probably spend a bit of time there regularly but they'd probably prefer me to spend cash. Having said tha, you know what it is like when you go to a store and your credit card starts fluttering!
6) If we offer to order in any products that we either do not have or do not usually stock, would you rather buy from us, or would you simply buy online?
I'd rather buy from a shop so that I could make sure it is what I really wanted before I parted with the cash.
7) If you are in a band, would you like to play in such a store, or would you rather play in the usual environments, such as bars?
I prefer to play in bars as they tend to pay.
-
thanks for your time ed, will, and 38th.
-
additional thought, what do you guys think about us having recording equipment and everything set up on stage and then you could pay like $50 for us to record your set and throw it on a cd?
-
$50.00 seems very cheap-it might make me wonder whether you would be able to do a good job-having said that, I am in the UK and due to the rate of exchange currently that would just be about £25.00. Seriously, I think that that is too good a price.
-
$50.00 seems very cheap-it might make me wonder whether you would be able to do a good job-having said that, I am in the UK and due to the rate of exchange currently that would just be about £25.00. Seriously, I think that that is too good a price.
alright, maybe we'd just let them come and play and give them a recording, but not paying them to play. i don't know. it was more of the idea that i was looking for opinions on, not price. i haven't really heard of anyone doing this.
also, for sake of making things easier and possibly better, we were thinking that we would find somebody else, either on their own, or like a starbucks who would want to come in and work with us. they could take care of all that business, they'd attract customers, and we'd be able to split rent.
-
Pricing is a very tricky business-crucial to the viability of the venture.The temptation at first is to do everything cheaper than everyone else but that only gets you so far. I guess I should have said that the price you suggested seemed to be too good to be true and it sounds as though you would stick a few mics around and record a gig (I am not saying you'd do that but that is what I would think and so, I reckon, would many others though you'd get a few takers). Conversely if you go about it the right way and get good gear and produce a brilliant recording then your customers need to pay you adequately for it. Having said all that, you could well be offering a unique service in your area and that could be your best asset.
-
Pricing is a very tricky business-crucial to the viability of the venture.The temptation at first is to do everything cheaper than everyone else but that only gets you so far. I guess I should have said that the price you suggested seemed to be too good to be true and it sounds as though you would stick a few mics around and record a gig (I am not saying you'd do that but that is what I would think and so, I reckon, would many others though you'd get a few takers). Conversely if you go about it the right way and get good gear and produce a brilliant recording then your customers need to pay you adequately for it. Having said all that, you could well be offering a unique service in your area and that could be your best asset.
yeah i would plan on spending a pretty lot on the recording gear. not a ridiculous amount, because its not studio quality, but enough to get a real good live recording that new bands could use to try to promote themselves or that some locally known bands could use to produce and get a cd out there. now i'm not sure what all what be needed, but i would acount for at least like 8 sm57's and some condensors, a huge mixer, and like a $5000 digital recorder/ cd burner.