Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: badgermark on December 11, 2007, 02:53:07 PM

Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: badgermark on December 11, 2007, 02:53:07 PM
Hi, I like Strats.

My current #1 is a MIM strat with a Holydiver (when I get it back from Tim anyway, something died when installing it :()in the bridge and a Slowhand neck, and the stock neck pickup in the middle. Now when I got this Strat I loved the feel and tone, but the middle pickup confused me. What's it for? I can understand a HSH setup, having a nice single coil makes sense. My pondering have lead me to think it's half way between the bridge and neck, which is redundant for me, as the neck and bridge are good enough as they are.

So Strat people, what do you use your middle pickup for? And is there anything interesting I can do in this position? (Spoke to Tom a while ago about his P90 sized single, piqued my interest slightly)
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Twinfan on December 11, 2007, 03:03:27 PM
SRV (and others) used the middle pickup a lot for rhythm tones.  Chugging away with a thicker tone than the bridge, but bitier than the neck.  Then he flicked to the neck for solos of rlal that chewy goodness  :)
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: gingataff on December 11, 2007, 03:06:16 PM
A middle sc has a nice lead tone, quite full but still with some bite, its also great mixed with bridge and neck pickups. I have an Irish Tour in my Charvel and it's lovely, it a Strat it would be even lovelier.
Title: Re: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: _tom_ on December 11, 2007, 03:06:59 PM
Quote from: badgermark
So Strat people, what do you use your middle pickup for? And is there anything interesting I can do in this position? (Spoke to Tom a while ago about his P90 sized single, piqued my interest slightly)


Bugger, I forgot about that P90 sized singlecoil  :oops: Are you still interested in it?

Twinfan summed it up really, its a bit thicker than the bridge but still has a bit of bite. Also, theres position 4 (neck+middle) on the switch which makes a great cheesy clean especially with some chorus :)
Title: Re: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: badgermark on December 11, 2007, 03:21:41 PM
Quote from: _tom_
Quote from: badgermark
So Strat people, what do you use your middle pickup for? And is there anything interesting I can do in this position? (Spoke to Tom a while ago about his P90 sized single, piqued my interest slightly)


Bugger, I forgot about that P90 sized singlecoil  :oops: Are you still interested in it?

Twinfan summed it up really, its a bit thicker than the bridge but still has a bit of bite. Also, theres position 4 (neck+middle) on the switch which makes a great cheesy clean especially with some chorus :)


Hmm interesting. Something I never bothered with before, shall experiment when Rhonda is up and running (yes I named my strat Rhonda, wanna fight about it?)

And Tom I'm still interested, PM me if you wanna send it up  :D
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Elliot on December 11, 2007, 04:13:05 PM
Why do people bother playing strats at all?  That thin, woody slightly hollow tone exemplified by the middle pickup is just so uncool, so yesterday's rock.
 
Even A&R men tell young bands to play telecasters or Les Pauls instead.  Listen to Jimi Hendrix on Hey Joe or George Harrison or Richard Thompson - why would anyone want to play with that type of clean tone when they could sound like Opeth or Busted instead - strats just can't do that sort of sound, so should be discontinued.

The only good thing for strat single coils is to put a humbucker in the bridge and turn the tone controls off on the middle and neck pickups so you can get that wah like Voodoo Child effect when you flick the switch back and forth fast: otherwise its all pointless grandad tone.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Elliot on December 11, 2007, 04:13:33 PM
:D
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: badgermark on December 11, 2007, 04:33:32 PM
Very funny :P I was speaking to the misses today about me wanting another strat- vintage white with a red tortoiseshell pickguard and a white Shlowhand set. The humbucker is for my hard rocking band, single just don't cut it.

So weird right now, my playing at home is so different from when I'm with my band. At home I love my tele and a warm tone, clean all the way baby. But when playing with the band my 'clean' tone is crunchy and boosted with distortion- hence the humbuckers. Ah the duality of guitaring... I love both sounds too. Schizophrenic or what?
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Pierre on December 11, 2007, 04:35:58 PM
I NEVER use the bridge pickup by itself on a Strat. I could be happy with just middle and neck. But I NEED the middle pickup. Though again I rarely use it by itself, but I combine it with the neck and bridge. That's where my favorite Strat tones come from.

I SOMETIMES use the middle as a subsitute bridge pickup.

Ideally a Strat's 5 way is wired so that the rearmost position is bridge + middle for me :D

It's also good for funk, a lot of tight rythm tones and you can get a pretty lead out of it too if you know how to pick.

 I'd normally play a strumming rythm on the neck or neck+mid, a lead on middle or middle + bridge, and funk on either middle or mid+bridge. It depnds on the strat, amp and pickups of course but that's how I feel about it.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: 38thBeatle on December 11, 2007, 07:16:03 PM
I must admit that I tend to use my middle pups in conjunction with one of the others but for many years I used to use it for rhythm also.I actually like the sound a lot but I do realise that it is not cool to do so.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: froglord on December 11, 2007, 07:17:05 PM
You need the middle pickup to get the quack in positions 2 and 4.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Roho on December 11, 2007, 07:40:07 PM
We have Hendrix to thank for positions 2 and 4, as he's the one who, while constantly pushing his guitars to find all tones, used these positions often. So often, Fender switched from a 3 way toggle to the 5 way. Watch any Hendrix videos and you will see him placing the toggle in those positions. Had to be tough in a live setting.


I used to think that SRV used the neck pickup often, but after having Texas Specials in my Strat, learning his music, and watching his videos, a lot of his solos are the bridge and middle pickup together. Often, I felt guilty playing this guitar because with the bridge and middle position it sounds so much like SRV. I have this Strat for sale now in favor of my two Teles. I put Tele Texas Specials in one, and the Tele version sounds a lot different than its Strat brother. I find they're bigger in the Tele.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Elliot on December 11, 2007, 08:25:17 PM
Fender strat literature from the 50s said that bridge was for lead, middle for rhythm and neck for 'soft' ryhthm - the Strat was invented for Western Swing (which is what Bill Carson played - the guitarist whom Leo Fender designed the Strat for) so maybe it makes sense in that genre.  

I thought it was Dick Dale who started the 5 way switch craze and his influence at Fender was why they made the switch (boom boom) - in fact Hendrix loved Dick Dale and would often drop in on him before he was famous - When DD had cancer in 1967 Hendrix went to see him to learn his guitar secrets as everyone thought DD was going to die ('You'll never hear the sound of surf guitar again' as Jimi says on Third Stone from the Sun)

If you look at most videos of Hendrix's switching position (i'm sad enough to freeze frame) - he mainly uses bridge, neck or middle not position 4 and 2.  From my rough study of videos and You Tube clips:
On Hey Joe he uses middle or neck,  
Little Wing or Wind Cries Mary - mainly middle position.
Voodoo Child - bridge but with the wah type switching effect
Harder stuff like fire - Bridge

I personally use the middle almost all the time - the bridge is too rock and roll for me - I sometimes flick to it for soloy bits.  I like the neck, but again I use it for more oomph from the bridge.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Roho on December 11, 2007, 08:47:41 PM
I don't know enough about Dick Dale to state otherwise except I learned recently that Hendrix was a fan while reading his biography. I thought it was Hendrix who popularized it, but I'm probably wrong.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Elliot on December 11, 2007, 10:54:40 PM
You may be correct about JH making the 5 way a world wide thing - but DD was a friend of Leo Fender and he was certainly among the first to use a 5 way.  Leo Fender used the young guitarists of the day for R&D (rather like Ibanez and the shred generation) and Dale made it known to Fender that the 5 way was the mod of choice of the early 60s generation - after all the 5 way was available in the Switchcraft catalogue along side the 3 way.

I personally prefer a three way switch - I like feel of wedging the switch between the in-between positions better.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: HTH AMPS on December 11, 2007, 11:11:32 PM
I was never fond of the middle pickup sound on a Strat, could never find a good use for it.  I also liked 3-way swicthes better, 5-way ones are too much of a fart-on.

At the end of the day, I'd take a Tele over a Strat every time.  

 :twisted:
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: jpfamps on December 12, 2007, 12:47:57 PM
Oddly in the last couple of years I've started to mainly use the middle position on my Strat, so this thread is quite timely.

Having been a long time Strat player – in fact I've never really played anything else live much – I only used to use the neck and out of phase positions. I then bought a great amp and all the positions became usable. Now I've got a great Strat and I find I'm using the middle position most. I guess there is a moral to this......

The three way switch isn't as hard to use as you might think as they are quite stiff so are quite easy to wedge in the in between positions. Incidentally I've got recordings of Buddy Guy from the 50's which sound like the in between setting. Also 50's Johnny Guitar Watson recordings have this sound on them. Hendrix was very much influenced by Buddy Guy by the way.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Mr Ed on December 12, 2007, 01:18:50 PM
Well, my Strat is pimped with Lace Sensors and so it runs like this:

Bridge: Red (uber hot single, humbucker-like output)
Middle: Silver (fat 70's style single)
Neck: Blue (classic 50's single)

Ok, so...

Position One is all Red, totally hot and with a clean boost or EQ mid-boost is basically a humbucker.

Position Two blends the Silver with the Red and takes a bit of the power away, sounds a bit twangier - great for clean tones.

Position Three is all Silver, great for rhythm because, as already said, it's slightly more trebley than the neck but not too much. Nice fat sound.

Position Four is Silver and Blue, it's a more bassy sound, good for solos, but it has a little extra treble.

Position Five is all Blue, classic neck singlecoil sound. Sounds immense clean.

So, if I were writing a general Strat-y song at home I would use P2 for rhythm and then either P1 for hawt solos or P4 for something more mellow and "blues" like.

Hope that helps. :)
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: badgermark on December 12, 2007, 02:06:38 PM
All this has been really interesting, I love reading about what other people use their equipment for. When I got my first Strat I loved the clean shimmer of the 2 and 4 positions, but couldn't find a use for the middle on it's own.

With any luck I'll get another Slowhand for the middle when I get surplus cash, for now the stock will do. Can't wait to get this baby running, just waiting on a prognosis on the Holydiver from Tim...
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Mr Ed on December 12, 2007, 02:11:23 PM
I think that if I personally had a HSH (which I hopefully will) I'd want a mini toggle switch to coil-tap both pickups at the same time to double the possible combinations. That'd be the tits!
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Prawnik on December 14, 2007, 04:37:21 PM
Strangely enough, I get the best Zeppelin tones from the middle pickup in my 1971-clone Strat.  Better than from my old LP Custom or any other Lester that I've ever played.  

And I love Les Pauls.  

The middle pickup on my '69 hardtail clone is ripe for countree music!
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Jonesy76 on December 14, 2007, 05:06:28 PM
I remember Chris Rea saying that they used to use matchsticks to hold the switch in positions 2 and 4 as we now know them!

I used to use the middle pickup for playing funk and disco on my old Mex Strat when I had it.  'Play That Funky Music' doesn't sound right in any other position on any other guitar! :D
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: Elliot on December 14, 2007, 06:22:26 PM
Don't need matchsticks on my 83 Squier JV strat - the switch is stiff enough not to slip.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: 38thBeatle on December 14, 2007, 11:41:14 PM
Yeah I have used matchsticks back in the day so I can personally verify the story.
Title: Strat middle pickups, WTF?
Post by: _tom_ on December 16, 2007, 03:49:45 PM
Did this clip earlier, used the neck pickup for the main riff thing, neck+middle on left speaker and middle pickup on my strat for the stuff on the left speaker/1st solo. Rebel Yell for the main solo at the end :)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=493678&songID=6078261