Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Henk on December 13, 2007, 11:53:06 AM
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Hi all!
Ok ive narrowed it down on the type of strat i am thinking of buying.
Since i do want the real strat feel im going for a Fender strat, MIJ JV or E series, or an 80's USA Fender, or it that fails maybe a 40th anniversary USA strat from '93/'94. The 80's USA strats would cost a little more, especially the early ones still made in the CBS era. As an alternative i have been reading about the quality the early USA standard strat which is supposed to be very good, if not the best, this is a late 80s strat.
The thing that draws me to an USA strat is that they are a bit heavier usually, which i prefer, and they feel a little more rigid/more durable, especially when compared to the MIM strats IMO.
Most of these will be in the 400-500 pound range, that will be my budget. I do think that at this time it would be worthwile to buy an USA made, (if its good) since prices on MIJ strats seem awfully high and there is just so much USA stuff out there up for grabs.
The only thing i didnt decide on is if i can live with the thinner C shape neck of the standards, i am used to the fat gibson necks and the soft V shape necks feel much better to my hands(long thin fingers). On the other hand i think the thinner C's make for a better balance with lighter bodies.
Anyway, maybe someone can add to my 'which neck' decision making, i guess it will be fine after some mental adjusting, but maybe it would just annoy me all the time.
I did think about the 80's '57 reissues which are the guide in my Fender quest tonally, i just love that twang! BUT they cost an arm and a leg over here since there are very little around and those that are offered are mostly messed with too much.
Oh yes, i definately want the maple neck and alder body because i think this will get me the most lively/clear tone. Maybe someone has another opinion on that which i would be glad to hear.
Thanks for reading and your interest in my questing,
Kindest regards, Henk
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You don't mention fingerboard radius in your list of specs, and this has a large affect on the feel of the guitar. The more modern USA Standards have the flatter radius which you may or may not like.
In my opinion, the best value for money and great sounding Strats around today are the Japanese reissue series. In your budget, I'd go for the '57 reissue with Texas Specials as it has the Alder body you want:
http://www.fenderjapan.co.jp/fender/2007fender/strat/st5778tx.htm
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Made In Japan 1957 Reissue, alder body, maple neck with a maple 'board.
Change the tuners.
Change the pickups.
Revel in the sex appeal.
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Yes i forgot that Twinfan, the C shapes of the standards i mentioned have a 9.5" radius and i think the 57 strats have a 7.25" or so. Gibson has a 12" so the older standards are somewhere in between. The present USA standards strats feel less chunky neckwise, to me that is offcourse. Im not that worried about the neck radius by the way, more about the grip i have on the back of the neck, i am used to the 'gibson necklock grip'(with most of my palm on the back of the neck) and thinner necks you cant grab like that. Its just give alot of stability when running up and down the neck or even changing cords fast.
Discription of the introduction of the standard USA:
A new Strat was developed in 1986, unveiled to key dealers, and introduced to critical raves at the January 1987 NAMM trade show. Details included typical features (three-layer pickguard, one-piece maple neck, etc.), plus a small headstock, 4-bolt neck, a 9 1/2” radius fingerboard with jumbo frets, a TBX tone circuit, a redesigned tremolo with two bearing points instead of six screws, flat-polepiece pickups, a hum-reducing, reverse-polarity pickup in the middle position, a silver transition logo, and a urethane finish. The other key detail: It would be made in the U.S.A. To make sure no one missed the point, the new guitar would be called “American Standard.” Conspicuous designation of the U.S. origin of certain models or whole series would be a regular fixture of Fender strategies from now on. (American Standards built in 1994 bear a red, white, and blue medallion on the headstock, commemorating the instrument’s 40th anniversary.)
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What about one more of those replacement bodies/necks?? :D
I always like this idea! and I don't like many colors of Fender... to be fair, looks to me like: "I have the same guitar of 1 billion guys".... Don't like it...
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Can't comment on the early-80s models, but I did have a couple of the '93-'94 Strats with the 40th Anniversary headstock badge.
A I remember, the necks were especially thin, quite flat-backed and the fingerboard edges felt really sharp and uncomfortable when playing with the thumb over the neck. I didn't like them at all.
The very-late-'90s American Standards and 2000+ American Series still have quite skinny necks, but they're much more rounded and comfortable.
As a fellow Gibson/chunky neck fan, I'd be surprised if you'd like the mid-'90s models.
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Well, what i have seen is that the 80's dont go down as narrow at the nut as the 90 ones, but i havent held one yet. It will probably boil down to just trying it out and deciding on the spot.......
I did think about assembling one myself, but i dont want something new, i want an old one, so there you go....
I have checked on the Japan '57, but it seems the recent ones have basswood bodies which i dont want. Checking on oldies i have found a MIJ Squire JV '57 reissue, seems to have a decent neck, but the paint seems to be chipping(large chips) off the body and there is a crack in the body too which pretty much is a NO to me. Still i find the prices pretty high for those JV's, sure its a very well made guitar but i did miss the sparcle i heard in the mexican 50's classic player i liked soundwise. But that one didnt feel too well constructed...... Im just such a hard man to please :cry:
I could just buy a good older strat and get a good V shaped neck replacement from Warmoth or so, might be a simple solution to it all.
Ill keep scrolling on the net a bit, maybe something turns up.
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I have checked on the Japan '57, but it seems the recent ones have basswood bodies...
Pffft, why on Earth would they do that!? It needs to be Alder or Ash, no exception. :evil:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1993-Fender-Japan-54RI-STRAT-Custom-Edition-Rare_W0QQitemZ330194542023QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33039QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fender-Japan-57-RI-Strat-ST57-78TX-CIJ-New_W0QQitemZ330192457080QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33039QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fender-Japan-1962-Re-Issue-Strat-ST62G-85TX-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ330194338812QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33039QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fender-Japan-ST57-93TX-RI-STRAT-Special-Ltd-Edition_W0QQitemZ330194537305QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33039QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
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In my opinion the best value Strats out there are the JV Squiers. They generally are much better guitars than the modern USA Standards, and have a nice vintage feel about them. However, like all guitars, there is quite a wide variation between different instruments, so it would be worth trying a few examples.
I've played quite a few re-issue US Strats and by and large they are OK (again quite variable), but they are probably a bit more than you would like to spend.
Failing that an older Japanese reissue is probably your best bet. I've yet to play a Mexican Strat I've liked, and I don't think that the USA Standard Strats although perfectly useable, are that amazing.
One advantage of buying a JV Squier is that it will hold its value (assuming you don't vandalize it). If you have a limited budget (and who doesn't) it is worth spending some time making sure you get the best guitar you can find for your money.
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I have checked on the Japan '57, but it seems the recent ones have basswood bodies
Look at my link Henk, that's why I put it there ;)
http://www.fenderjapan.co.jp/fender/2007fender/strat/st5778tx.htm
The basic Vintage '57 (model number ST57-66US) has a basswood body and USA Vintage pickups. The Vintage Premium '57 (model number ST57-78TX) has an Alder body and Texas Special pickups.
The Vintage Premium '57 will fulfill all your requirements and will feel very similar to the JV Squiers. I own a JV '62 and I've played a '62 Vintage Premium and you can tell straight away that they're close relations :)
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Nice one, Twinfan, that helps me kinda... that means I have a Vintage Premium 57R. Rawk.
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I have checked on the Japan '57, but it seems the recent ones have basswood bodies...
They seem to have used basswood in the early 90s, or the seller is just mistaking or has changed the body which seems to happen alot also. Sorry about the mixup, i didnt even think about new ones being made. Buying new does seem a good deal compared to the price they dare to ask for a JV :(
One advantage of buying a JV Squier is that it will hold its value (assuming you don't vandalize it). If you have a limited budget (and who doesn't) it is worth spending some time making sure you get the best guitar you can find for your money.
This should be also true for the first two years when the USA standard was released and also for the last strats made in the CBS era, which was 83-84 or so.
A good strat to me has a very lively tone which i dont hear often, its a very resonant tone also. Very different from my Gibsons which seem so pointlessly complex when listening to a good fender clip, it just makes me like those strats even better.
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No problem. The Premium series are very good, and incredibly similar in feel to the old JV series. Plus they're new if that's what matters to you.
I'd say to folks don't pay the for the collectibility status of the JV unless you're a collector, or you manage to get one cheap.
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I have checked on the Japan '57, but it seems the recent ones have basswood bodies
Look at my link Henk, that's why I put it there ;)
http://www.fenderjapan.co.jp/fender/2007fender/strat/st5778tx.htm
The basic Vintage '57 (model number ST57-66US) has a basswood body and USA Vintage pickups. The Vintage Premium '57 (model number ST57-78TX) has an Alder body and Texas Special pickups.
The Vintage Premium '57 will fulfill all your requirements and will feel very similar to the JV Squiers. I own a JV '62 and I've played a '62 Vintage Premium and you can tell straight away that they're close relations :)
:roll: Henk's short corners again,
Thanks for slowing me down a bit!
Ok that looks like thats worthwile, i wonder why they dont sell those around here, would make everything alot easier. Maybe they are afraid they wont sell any USA models anymore :lol:
Still i do like to pick up/ check out an older/used one, this way i will be sure i like the guitar and the wood has set to its lasting shape. Having bought and sold alot of guitars in the past makes me kind of hesitant to buy online. Like i said i am looking for something very specific, and i doubt i can trust an online seller to pick it for me, mostly they just sell the stuff and dont know much about them.
Your comment makes me wonder if you have any difficlty switching from '62 fender necks to les pauls, or do you simply use a different technique?
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I have a few ( :roll: ) guitars, so I'm always swapping between different types. For example I go from an Ibanez Wizard "|" one minute, to a Baja Tele "D". I guess I'm used to it and it doesn't bother me.
Might explain why I'm very un-bothered by different neck profiles/fret heights etc. I just play what's there and get on with it!
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Well, I looked at a few that said they were 2002-made and they were basswood bodies but I think mine's a 2005 model and it's alder. Weeeeird.
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I have a few ( :roll: ) guitars, so I'm always swapping between different types. For example I go from an Ibanez Wizard "|" one minute, to a Baja Tele "D". I guess I'm used to it and it doesn't bother me.
I used to find it very difficult to get on with skinnier necks, even my nineties/noughties Strats which are nowhere near Ibanez-skinny.
Then I got my American Ash Tele, which has a "U" neck, quite deep like a Gibson but fairly narrow like a Strat. Once I'd been playing that for a while, it suddenly (like magic! :roll: ) felt quite comfortable going to either the Strats or the Gibsons. I guess it's an ideal halfway house.
I still prefer the big necks though, and I don't think I could ever get used to an Ibanez Wizard.
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I still prefer the big necks though, and I don't think I could ever get used to an Ibanez Wizard.
They are very different - like playing a string of spaghetti :lol:
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I always prefer thick-ish necks... not old 50's necks that are like gripping a log but slightly slimmer 60's ish ones. I think that's what my Ravelle is.
Then I got my Strat.
Strat necks are ideal for me, even with my big hands and long fingers, it's just a dream.
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The strange thing is, i have just normal size hands but have long fingers, they just get in the way when i play the neck on my thumb joint so i need to put it further to my palm if that is understandable at least.
Anyway, i should be able to play any kind of neck with my hands, its just that the V shapes feels good instantly and the C shape makes me work too much :lol:
I probably will be glad i get the sound i want and a neck thats usable. I simply am unable to use those ibanes necks, i have to play those between my thumb and index finger, maybe i could manage some punk with that though :P
I think ill go listen some clips on youtube, to get some ideas for sounds/pickups, anyone have a sample of good sounding strat clips(clean)? Its actually rather cool not knowing much about a certain guitar or its sound.....
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Ah, the 57 JV reissue did not have a V shape neck but both the 62 and 57 shared the same slim D shape necks.
Shame really, the JV i played was a 62, the edges on the USA models which someone commented on were quiten nice on the JV(which has more rounded ones) now i read about the differences.
Owell back to google again.......
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The '57 style MIM neck I bought off Philking had a soft v shaped neck and was really comfy. Only problem was that it had 7.25" radius which I just couldnt get on with, as I'm used to the flatter 12" on my Epiphone and found the fender really hard to play. Now got a newer MIM 9.5" radius one and its easier to play but the modern c doesnt feel as comfy as the soft v to me :(
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I have exactly the same thing, allthough i think i can manage better with a 57 MIM neck then wit the moden C 9,5", maybe ill find a chunky C though, i think that would be fine too.
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In my opinion the best value Strats out there are the JV Squiers. They generally are much better guitars than the modern USA Standards, and have a nice vintage feel about them. However, like all guitars, there is quite a wide variation between different instruments, so it would be worth trying a few examples.
I've played quite a few re-issue US Strats and by and large they are OK (again quite variable), but they are probably a bit more than you would like to spend.
Failing that an older Japanese reissue is probably your best bet. I've yet to play a Mexican Strat I've liked, and I don't think that the USA Standard Strats although perfectly useable, are that amazing.
One advantage of buying a JV Squier is that it will hold its value (assuming you don't vandalize it). If you have a limited budget (and who doesn't) it is worth spending some time making sure you get the best guitar you can find for your money.
My 1983 JV Squier is perhaps my favorite Strat.
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I wasn't blown away by any of the US strats hence why I've ordered a nice swamp ash body from Warmoth and am building my own Strat.
I was just put off Squiers by folks on here whos opinion was that the necks are made with fairly soft maple, and you're gonna have to gut the Squiers electrically
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The JV (Japanese Vintage) Squier series referred to above where made in Japan in the early 80s by Fender Japan, which is a separate company to Fender US, and was set up to supply the Japanese domestic market. These guitars were the first guitar re-issues the Fender produced and are very good quality and used US-made pickups. They are NOT run of the mill Squiers.
JV Squiers where made during the death throws of the Fender CBS era, when quite frankly the quality of guitars made in the US was very poor. Realistically most Strats made after '74 are pretty shocking (and I've played a few I can tell you), and I'm amazed at the prices these guitars are fetching.
JV Squiers are probably the nearest you can get to a decent vintage Strat without paying a large sum of money for a real vintage instrument, or going down the Fender Custom Shop route.
CBS sold Fender to the Fender management in the 80's, but didn't sell the factory, so when I was first looking for a Strat in 1985 there were no new US-made Strats! If only I had the foresight to get a pre '74 one second hand! Anyway, Fender sold Japanese produced guitars wolrdwide until they got production up and running again in the US. Subsequently the Japanese Fenders were supposed only to be sold on the Japanese domestic market although obviously several companies are importing them to the UK.
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Solid colour JV (which were issued 1983-84) squiers are more likely to be basswood than alder - not that it in any affects the supreme tone of these guitars - from the paint chips on mine it is the better grade (i.e. alder coloured rather than yellowed) of basswood.
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How about the E series MIJ Strats? It is said that these are nearly as good as the JV's, any truth in that?
I allmost had a nice '57 USA reissue from the 80s in my hands but someone just beat me to it :evil:
EDIT: Oh, and when im at it, how about the Korea made Pro Tones?
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I was just put off Squiers by folks on here whos opinion was that the necks are made with fairly soft maple, and you're gonna have to gut the Squiers electrically
The better standard and deluxe have maple necks which are not actual neck maple density, even alot softer than the MIM maple necks which i personally think are too soft also, the affinity's have a three piece alder neck, talk about soft wood.......
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I'm selling a strat style guitar that I built and then took back in as a part-ex if anyone's interested. It has a 3 colour sunburst alder body and rosewood fingerboard with Malmsteen DiMarzios and all Gotoh hardware. It's immaculate.
A quick phone call could have saved you some money Jonesy
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I have been checking out some fenders today, found alot of overpriced cr@p again :cry:
I just called my bigass guitar guru(he's a GEEK i say :lol: ) and he said i should get a 7okai, he says they made the best ever necks, and also alot of V-shaped necks are around. So in now have to check out some springy sounds or goldstarsounds according to him, from the early 80s.
Anyone care to coment on the Tokai suggestion?
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The factory that made the Tokais made the Japanese Strats. The factory now has an exlcusive deal to make MIJ Fenders, so you cannot buy a new Tokai Fender-style guitar. Early Tokais are quite collectible, so the prices are affected like JV Squier Strats.
A brand new MIJ Strat is the best option in my opinion. Can you find somewhere to try one out? Or someone who has one to let you have a play on one?
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The new alder body MIJ Fender 50's reissue (like the one you linked) costs 800 euro here...... For that money i can buy a 80s Tokai (with V neck) for sure.
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In that case, fair enough!
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Having played them at the time they were new I though the JVs were all better finished and better players than the Tokais - probably due to the licence
Modern Japanese premium series vintage can't be beat in my view even by JVs - top quality alder, electronics and correct neck styling (except the hallowed Japan Fender spaghetti labelled JV ST-115 series with nitro finish)- but its difficult to try before you buy.
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Ive checking some more strats today, checked out a pretty nice protone squier(Korea), for the cash that is, needed an electronic change though which makes allmost twice as expensive as the guitar alone. The wood was nice though, good ash body and maple/rosewood neck, all pretty clear sounding stuff. Also came across two Bill Lawrence strats from the 80s (challengers) MIJ. Ash body and maple neck, one was a 57 model and had a very soft V neck(or just a thicker C shape), still pretty skinny neck though. The BL were nitro finished which was a big pro IMO.
Im still thinking about a JV ive seen at a decent price, but it really looks like a truck drove over it, then again those are mostly the best players, right?
Anyway, i pretty much figure now that im best of keeping an open mind and just try out any decent strat instead of being picky about wood and such, the protone was the clearest sounding(acoustically) strat ive tried, it also had that thing that when you dig in deep it starts to growl like you gear on the 'big strat heros' recordings, maybe thats due to the rosewood though...
Alot to think over again, maybe i should just settle for a decent cheapy and keep looking for 'the ultimate one'. I did have a very nice day, it can be such a thrill what you will run into at the next shop.....
Greetings and thanks for the helpfull comments, ill keep the new MIJ premium strats in mind, maybe ill check them out when i get even more desperate.
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FINALLY!
After dozering trough piles of cr@p i found my strat and guess what, its a JV DOMESTIC squier.
Tell you all about it tomorrow, im bushed.
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Nice one - looking forward to hearing baout it.
Here's some info if you need it ;)
http://www.21frets.com/squier_jv/domesticjv.htm
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Nice one - looking forward to hearing baout it.
Here's some info if you need it ;)
http://www.21frets.com/squier_jv/domesticjv.htm
Ah ok, did know the site but didnt have time to stroll around....
Its a JV3 (25 jan neck-feb body in '83), an early SST-30s
Ive just took it all apart and cleaned it, man what a layer of crud on the fretboard :evil:
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Pics or it doesn't exist! :D