Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: sambo on December 19, 2007, 08:42:39 PM
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I'm a bit baffled at the moment about my ENGL Screamer 50 combo.
I'm ALMOST nailing the tone I'm after.
(www.myspace.com/theghostofathousand) for tone reference. That's my target.
But I just can't quite get there because of an annoying buzzy characteristic of my gain. It's hard to describe, but the gain is just a little fizzy/grainy... I've adjusted the settings all day but can't quite find that mecca of tone. Specifically the Presence setting is awkward. Turn it down and you get a great core tone but muffled, lacking clarity. Turn it up and it gets buzzy and fizzy.
Don't get me wrong it doesn't sound BAD... but it's just not what I'm aiming for.
My target tone is juicy, 'wet' crunch, with a fair dollop of gain that sounds thick and evil. (That's the best I can do description wise)
This ends up as slightly fizzy, 'dry' crunch with gain that sounds either too thin, or excessively boomy.
Now I've got several ideas as to what it could be;
-The amp. In general I mean. Maybe I've just realised that it isn't for me. Too modern? I dunno. The band whose tone most closely nails my ideal uses Orange ADs with no pedals or effects. Just straight into the amp with Les Pauls + SGs (I'm using a Les paul).
-The pickups. Maybe they're a little too weedy? They're old Japanese PAF copies, (apparently decent ones 'VH-Is'). Perhaps not enough output to push them into that saturation I'm after.
-Valves. There's this kinda windy, hum noise when the amp's on. It was the same for my knackered Laney LC30. Does this mean a valve's gone or starting to go? I'm not sure if it's always been there as I used to be an ignorant fool in terms of tone so probably wouldn't even have noticed it if it was.
What do you reckon?
I'm getting a GOOD tone, but just not WOW tone.
Frustrating to say the least.
Any opinions welcome guys,
Cheers,
sam.
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try turning up the mids, down the gain, less bass, less treb/presence
I was setting it like bass and mid around 2-3 pm, treble 1pm, presence 10-11 am, gain 12-1pm
how does this work?
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I'll give it a go in a sec Hunter, cheers.
As it is I usually have it on the heavy lead channel, gain at between 10-12 o clock, presence 9-12, mids at around 5 o clock, bass at 3, treble at 12.
Be back in a sec!
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I'll give it a go in a sec Hunter, cheers.
As it is I usually have it on the heavy lead channel, gain at between 10-12 o clock, presence 9-12, mids at around 5 o clock, bass at 3, treble at 12.
Be back in a sec!
Hmm that sounds like TOO MANY mids :twisted:
are you using it through a Vintage 30 cab? You could try some other speakers, maybe G12-65 could be good for that sound you want.
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haha! :oops:
I did experiment though, I didn't sit there all day on the same setting screaming "WHY DOESN'T IT SOUND GOOD?!?!?!".
But I will try your suggestions in a couple of seconds when the amp warms up.
And yup- V30 speaker. Could indeed try something else, maybe a K100.
Would using gauge 9 strings on an LP make any kind of difference to tone in the way I'm describing? Sounds far-fetched but I'm desperately at a loss here.... :lol: :oops:
Cheers.
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Ok tried that out. WAY better. The tone isn't dead on but it's taken a leap in the right direction.
Thanks for that man.
I think my problem was I was being too liberal with the EQ. Needed to make more subtle adjustments. :oops:
It's just hit me how Nick (Dakine) was right about the Screamer benefiting from an EQ pedal. WISH I hadn't sold mine now.... *doh*.
:evil:
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I love my Screamer.
Manage to get any tone I want, from Super high gain chug, to DC crunch, to Chimey cleans, to Santana like sustainy lead =)
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Would using gauge 9 strings on an LP make any kind of difference to tone in the way I'm describing? Sounds far-fetched but I'm desperately at a loss here.... :lol: :oops:
Even if its not affecting the tone you should get 10s or 11s anyway, everyone knows that 9s on LPs is for pussies :P I always found 9s to be really thin sounding acoustically but never noticed a huge difference plugged in.
How about lowering the preamp gain and then boosting with an overdrive pedal or something?
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Yer noodle the versatility is there I just suck at accessing it! :lol: :oops:
Tom, lol, I know I SHOULD have 10s or 11s but 9s are just so easy to play!!!
I snapped my top E recently, and my dad got a replacement 10 and it felt like a piece of rope. :lol:
Yeah I was thinking about an overdrive pedal... but I've never got on well with pedals much really. I think if I get the EQ right, I can wack on some extra preamp gain and it should be decent. It's just fiddling the EQ to a nice place.
Really annoying subtle changes though that's the thing. :evil:
Can you recommend a good overdrive anyway?
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How about my Rebel Yell? :P
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm liking the idea of black dogs... have you got a Black Dog you can sell me?
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Nah, my dog is more of a blonde colour :(
Worst joke/pun type thing ever, I know :\
Anyway, for overdrives, the bad monkey is meant to be really good for the money. I used to have a TS7 which is a cheap Ibanez model but it was really good.
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I struggled to believe what I was reading it was that bad.... :lol:
Bad Monkey eh...?
The Ibanez ones seem to be quite popular.
A lot of people on here seemed to like the Xotic stuff as well if I remember correctly. Although that's very pricey.
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i have a screamer also, and i know exactly what you are talking about with the gain. Try this-
Turn down the treble a few notches and compensate by turning the presence up an equal amount. This should get you the same sound but with a bit less fizz.
IF that fails try-
turning up the gain knob on the amp but turn down the volume pot on your guitar until you ar ein the same "gain" territory as before- only now, the sound should have a different characteristic.
I really love that amp but sometimes i think they should re-structure the gain in each channel. it would have the ultimate sound if you could squeeze more distortion outta channel 3. i think channel four is aimed more at playing leads, whereas im using it for rhythm. you are using channel 4 right?
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Are you comparing the sound of your amp to the recording?
If that's the case don't worry so much, have you ever heard how nasty and fizzy a Rectifier sounds in person but somehow sounds good on recordings? Recording changes the sound a lot, and playing loud with other people will also hide a lot of those nasty frequencies.
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If i understand correctly you play trough a single V30? That would explain the thin part at least compared to the link you gave. The fizzy part can be anything, i think its likely to be the PAF pickups. You can do something about it but youll probably have to noodle a bit longer on the settings. This actually is the oldskool way, PAF>boost>dirty amp, the sound of that is unmistakenly so, if you like that oldskool sound just live with small imperfections (probably noone will ever hear those anyway).
IMVHO thats the bottomline in these matters anyway, you can throw in thousands and just prospone the compromise you have to make anyway, youll be better off compromising now a bit and just enjoy playing, simple.
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the digitech bad monkey is the best overdrive under £120.. period!
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Multani- thanks for that man. You nailed my situation and the functionality of the screamer with that description.
I'll try your suggestions A.S.A.P.
And Ginga, yeah I'm (as usual) asking for too much to sound like the recording I guess. :( Although I have seen the same band live and the tone, whilst of course isn't EXACTLY like the recording, is much closer than I'm getting currently.
Henk- Yup it's a single V30. I was thinking about an extension cab anyway, so maybe that would help? Or a darker speaker?
And yeah maybe a boost is the way to go I guess. Annoying since I didn't figure I would need one for the ENGL.
Will take a look at the Bad Monkey, but also gonna try and squeeze everything out of the ENGL before I get a pedal.
Cheers guys!
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Just saw this thread on HC and thought it might be useful to you
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1835251
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What about speaker grille/cloth or a thin blanket?
Can make a big difference as to diffusion.
Another thing would be to try the Weber treble cap thing (or just put some tape in the middle on top of the current grille/cloth.
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Will check that out in a sec tom.
And hunter, I'll try putting something over the cab.
Just a piece of fabric hanging over the front maybe?
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Henk- Yup it's a single V30. I was thinking about an extension cab anyway, so maybe that would help? Or a darker speaker?
I do think this sound is a big load for a single V30, if stress is the couse of the fizzyness it should clear that up at low volume setting. I my memory is correct the screamer has quite a crunchy drive, but probably i didnt try all settings/channels. Most crunchy overdrive amps smooth out with more gain/boost IMO, definately worth a try i guess.
When checking out booster/drive pedals try to remember that the more natural sounding ones are often the most versatile in the long run.
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I've read the whole thread and the initial thoughts I had at the beginning are still the ones I have now. If you feel the need to tweak your tone any further I am sure that speakers/cabs are the way to go. They really can make such a fundamental difference in highlighting particular frequencies or frequency ranges put out by the amp.
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the Celestion G12-65, which is a great speaker for taming high end a bit, whilst still remaining very robust in the mids, and not flubby in the bass. It would be very interesting to take your Screamer into a shop and playing it through a few different cabs.
Alan
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Yeah I think stress on the pickups/speaker does a play a part, definitely.
And the ENGL does smoothen out even as you add more of it's own gain, but then (what I think) happens, is the pickups struggle to keep up, and the speaker is under a little too much stress, and it loses control a bit.
Hamfist, thanks for the recommendation.
Other people have recommended me buy a replacement speaker before, so might go for that in the end.
Cheers for all the advice guys!
I think on my list is:
-Set of BKs.
-New speaker
-Possibly boost pedal
-Possibly re-valve
-Possibly extension cab.
We shall see!
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Engls are voiced on V30 especially, i would just add a decent cab with the combo.
Your right about PAFs tending to go out of controll when driven too hard, as with most more 'oldskool' gear this is part of the whole sound aswell. It kind of like your rig can slip into feedback any second and if your not carefull everything starts to squeel and wistle all the time :lol:
I personally think this is the most powerfull tone possible...
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It kind of like your rig can slip into feedback any second and if your not carefull everything starts to squeel and wistle all the time
Yup!!!! :evil:
I guess I'm not an old school guy :lol: I mean I love the tone when I'm playing some zeppelin at more tame levels, but then getting aggressive they just kinda give up :lol:.
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It kind of like your rig can slip into feedback any second and if your not carefull everything starts to squeel and wistle all the time
Yup!!!! :evil:
I guess I'm not an old school guy :lol: I mean I love the tone when I'm playing some zeppelin at more tame levels, but then getting aggressive they just kinda give up :lol:.
I always use a 4x12, exactly for that reason. Try greenbacks if your at it anyway, they seem to work best at high power PAF tones IMO.
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Ok, late to the discussion but I'd take a look at some valves. I was recently given a very nice demo of exactly how much a change of valves can alter your sound (Thanks Hamfist) and since then I've replaced all but one of the pre amp vales in my amps.
I'm not a valve guru so I'm the wrong one to give advice as to what to try, but it's worth experimenting with, and many valves aren't too badly priced. Especially if you only change the V1 position.
For example my Orange TT came loaded with JJ's (12AX7's). I loved the sound of it, but just for the hell of it I put in a Phillips JAN spec in the V1 and left a JJ in the PI position. The JJ's are a dark valve and I liked that, but the Phillips gave me better mids and high's (that is to say I preffered the sound with the Phillips). I did lose a little in the bottom end, but that's the trade off, and there is nothing to stop me putting the JJ back in if I feel in the mood.
This might not fix your problem but it might give you some nice surprises :)