Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: misfits7783 on December 23, 2007, 04:51:47 AM
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Hi I was planning to buy SMs but I read the forums and I'm really kinda thinking of mules as well...now to some of you this would sound really noobish :cry: What's a main differience between a mule and SM pickup ? I'm into stuff like Led Zep, GnR, gary moore, aerosmith, buddy guy, etc. mostly 70-80s rock, and blues. I am looking for a vintage pickup that's slighty hot. I currently have Duncan 59 SH-1 in my LP (both n and b) I really hate it...on the other hand I have a tokai LP with duncan alnico 2 pro that slash uses and I kind of like the sound but I would like a pickup that's more vintage than that. I'm very new to BK pickups and can you guys help me make a great purchase..? Thanks guys !
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i think you should go for mules - they have a 'kick' in the mids, should be ideal for all the bands you list. stormy monday is a bit more mild and transparent.
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The main differences, construction wise, are that the SMs are Alnico II, the Mules are Alnico IV and a little hotter. Although it is possible to order both with different magnets.
They're both variations on classic PAF pickups, but by all accounts PAFs varied a lot because they were hand wound and used different magnets in a semi-random fashion. SMs are mild, Mules a bit more spicy.
You mentioned you hate the Duncan SH-1s. Lots of us are familiar with '59s, so that's a good reference point - are they too harsh/too muddy? Too bright/too dark? Too hot/too weak?
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duncan 59 for me is way too muddy, and I would say too weak......
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Well the SMs certainly aren't muddy (in fact I've yet to hear a muddy BKP), but they're fairly low-output.
I would guess Mules are a better bet for you, maybe even Black Dogs (more output, fatter low-mids) or Riff Raffs (about the same output as Mules, I believe, but a brighter, drier, gritty tone without the midrange hump - think AC/DC).
Or you could go for a BD/RR bridge plus Mule neck, perhaps?
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The Emerald set will easily give you a hot vintage sound. You'll get warmth and mids in abundance.
The bridge pup has a tremendous ability to generate warmth and cutting edge at the same time but you would need to handle the neck pup with care. When I say it's hot ... I mean HOT :D
If you want just slightly hot, you could try Emerald bridge / Mule or SM neck?
I should also point out that by simply rolling both volumes down to around 5-7 the Emerald set gives an authentic non to slightly hot vintage tone. How much 'hot' you want you can dictate by the volume setting.
Very useful if you want to go from standard vintage to hot vintage with no hassle :)
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wow you guys totally turned on with the Mules...I think I'll be getting Mules in both neck and bridge...as soon I get my paycheck :lol: I can't wait until I play some of those gary moore, Slash, Jimmy's licks on it.... :P but one last thing...I'll be getting those pickups in gold covers, so I should have them potted...right ? :?: :)
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I think you can get unpotted, covered pickups, but potted will give more resistance to squeal and feedback.
Personally I always go for potted anyway.
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Hey,
Its pretty much a toss i think, SM being more warm and bluesy and Mules being more middy and suitable for vintage types of rock. Still the Mules are likely to do it all.
The standard mule set i have is unpotted and have even less feedback than my stock gibson pickups so dont let that keep you off them, the unpotted ones have a very pleasant high-mid focus, very smooth, very tight bottom. Actually the real PAFs i have are a bit grittier and more 'raw' so to say allthough the neck Mule is pretty close and probably will get spot on after a couple of years playing.
I have the mules set up for neck lead and bridge rythm, i think they are especially suited for that as they are very sensitive pickups, if you want a more agressive bridge lead tone i wont go for a mules set but rather a neck mule and say a Riffraff or even VHII bridge.
Dont think the bridge mule is a wuss now though, if you know the fine art of boosting a pickups signal youll have such a good time with the Mule bridge, you can just pile up any gain level you want and it wil take it, full out metal? NO PROB!
Still, for that warm bluesy PAF tone i would recomend the SM, and by the way GnR have some of Tim's SM's too, so.......
PS. I have unpotted and covered pickups which Tim has a special trick for to make them way less prone to microphonics, i dont know how unpotted and uncovered would be......
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I'd go mules.
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When I was ordering my pickups from a shop, the owner phoned Tim who must have got the impression I was after the "led Zeppelin" sound. I was suggesting Mule neck (nickel plated) and black dog zebra in the bridge.
Tim suggested Riff Raff Bridge and Mule neck. I think if your really into Led zeppelin this suggestion would rock but I wanted a slightly hotter pickup. I based my sound on the clips I liked the sound of most on this forum which were black dogs. I opted for the Mule in the neck to get some cleaner sounds.
Speak to Tim. He'll know best
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Tim suggested Riff Raff Bridge and Mule neck. I think if your really into Led zeppelin this suggestion would rock but I wanted a slightly hotter pickup.
Interesting that Tim suggested the "AC/DC pickup" rather than the "Led Zeppelin" one! :lol:
I wonder if it was to do with the model of guitar?
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I know model of guitar and the type of wood it has lots of impact on the way the guitar sounds...even when you change pickups...mine's a gibson LP with maple body mahogany neck and ebony fingerboard. Will it work fine with the Mules ?
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...mine's a gibson LP with maple body mahogany neck and ebony fingerboard. Will it work fine with the Mules ?
Are you sure it's a maple body, not just a maple top on mahogany? I've never heard of an all-maple LP.
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I have a maple body Epiphone LP but I've never seen a Gibson LP with a maple body. Neck yes, but not body.
Is this LP a Gibson?
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The thing to figure out with the mules is if you have 500k pots, IMHO the mules dont sound as good with 300k pots gibson used in vintage type LP's, the standards should have 500k pots unless its one of the recent ones, im not sure on those. It is a cheap and simple upgrade to do anyway, so dont let that hold you back.
Kind of critical with the mules is the amount of highs your rig manages to retain, probably 300k pots will be fine if you have a very clear sounding amp. My marshalls wont do it.
I have my Mules in a maple necked gibson custom, and im sure it will sound great in a standard too.
Dont let the DC recistance fool you by the way, the Riffraff is much more agressive sounding then the Blackdog allthough the BD is hotter.
Please dont forget that if you put a booster (like an OD pedal) between your amp and guitar you are able to controll the output to the amp yourself, it works the same(but the way around) as turning the volume down on you guitar with high output pickups but does not roll off the highs. Unless you going to use insane gain levels a booster wont add too much noise, at least a good one wont.
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It's a gibson custom LP not a black beauty, body is carved maple. you guys can go to gibsoncustom.com and check it out. It's 500k pot though which is good I guess. and I hope mules don't have lots "high" in them ?
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It's a gibson custom LP not a black beauty, body is carved maple. you guys can go to gibsoncustom.com and check it out. It's 500k pot though which is good I guess. and I hope mules don't have lots "high" in them ?
No not alot of highs but more mids, really punchy percussive kind of tone, so basically a PAF. They do also have a nice rounded feel to the impressive sustain so....
The Riffraff have alot of highs and the Blackdogs more bottom end, the Mules are pretty balanced, its more that my custom is quite middy i think.
PS thats a carved maple TOP, the body is mahagony and they palced the carved maple on top of it.
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oh really...?
god...I must have sounded like a noob...saying my LP have a maple body.... :roll: :roll: :( :( I went to the dealer here in korea today and I decided on the mules, ordered one ^^ thanks for all the help you guys...I'll post some pics and sound samples after I install them on my LP... :twisted: