Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: prozacbear on December 26, 2007, 08:22:01 AM
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Hello
This is my first post although I have read stuff on this forum quite often as I am married to Ailean, so yes I am female its not a civil partnership :)
My question is this I am working on putting together a pedalboard very slowly (since Wez is making me a guitar and I have to pay for that first). All I have at the moment is a fuzz factory (which is the best thing ever), a Big Muff (which is a bit redundant since I got the fuzz factory), and a Cry Baby (which I borrowed and havent given back yet). I used to have a Boss ME-50 but sold it because I thought it sounded a bit naff.
I've only been playing for about 6 months but during that time I've put in a lot of hours, currently I mainly play along with Muse, Metallica, Pink Floyd, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, David Bowie (before 1980), Black Sabbath, etc.
So if you were me what sort of pedal would you get next and what brand. I'm a bit picky and would rather pay extra for the best pedal first than be trying to replace it 2 months later.
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Hi Sue !!! Congrats on joining the board !
You are not asking an easy question at all. So much actually depends on your personal tastes. I'm going to guess that you want to get you base tone right before moving on to modulation/delay/reverb effects, so I'm going to stick to dirt pedals.
There are two ways of using drive/OD/dist/fuzz pedals with an amp. Firstly, you can use a clean amp sound as a tonal base, and then use pedals for all your drive/gain sounds. The clean channel on your Valve King would be the best for that.
Secondly, you can use an already overdriving amp, and then push it further with pedals - Your Tiny Teror would be the clear choice for that approach, I think.
I have used pedalboards both ways. Some pedals work best into a clean amp, some work best into a driven amp. As a general rule of thumb, I would say that Tube screamer-type pedals work best into an already cooking amp. Fuzz and higher gain pedals usually work best into a totally clean amp. In my experience I have found that there are more pedals that prefer a clean amp than those which like a driven amp.
OK, after all that, I am going to suggest you try/get an MI Audio Crunch Box (M&M music, Soton). Reasonably cheap, true-bypass, awesome, high gain pedal - Marshall-style. I hardly ever hear of anyone being disappointed with one. I love mine. BTW, this pedal is best into a clean amp, but still OK into a driven amp.
From the bands you have mentioned it looks like you would also appreciate a moe vintage sounding Marshall-type pedal, one that gets Plexi-JCM800 type tones (70's-80's). I'd recommend either a Himmelstrutz Fetto (very expensive - but superb !), or a Menatone King of the Britains (I have one of these in the post - you can try it out when I get it, if you like), or a Wampler Indyguitarist Plextortion. None of these is "better" than the other, all just have their own character. BTW, the Plextortion is the cheapest !
It would help me, and others, focus our suggestions if you can tell us exactly what type of tones you feel you are lacking, and whether you are going to play through a driven amp, or a clean one.
Alan
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Watch ya Alan
I have found that through the Tiny Terror my Fuzz Factory sounds amazing, I've been really blown away by it. But through my Peavey valve king I mostly get doggy fart noises, and after an hour of fiddling I get an okish sound. So a distortion pedal that complements a Paevey Valve King would be good, maybe something with a more vintage tone than my fuzz factory.
Also when playing to solo from Californication receintly I found that I was lacking sustain, my guitar teacher suggested that I play it through a compressor. Does anyone have suggestions regarding compressor padals?
Thanks for the suggestions so far I will look into what you suggest.
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Oh and I'll certainly be up for having a go on your Menatone King of the Britains when you get it.
Thanks
Sue
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For sustain, I would value technique over a pedal. sounds boring, but I noticed a change over time, about 18months of guitarring, and sustain won't be a particular bother... unless you want about 2 hours of it
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Mmmm, fair point, also I'm lacking a good sustaining guitar at the moment, as I had to sell my tele's for funds.
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For sustain, I would value technique over a pedal. sounds boring, but I noticed a change over time, about 18months of guitarring, and sustain won't be a particular bother... unless you want about 2 hours of it
I find that a strange comment. Long violin-type note sustain only comes with certain levels of distortion. Compression (which saturated distortion includes anyway) also increases sustain. Also interaction between the strings and speakers at higher volume can also give sustain through feedback.
No amount of technique will give long violin-like sustain solo lines. You have to have lots of distortion, period.
Sue, the Crunch Box pedal I mentioned earlier will give you more gain and sustain than you will ever need, if you want it to.
Alan
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BTW, if you simply love the tone you are getting, yet do not have enough sustain, and cannot get any more using what you have, then a compressor will help.
However, personallyI would never suggest a compressor for anything more than low gain tones. They tend to rob high end frequencies, and reduce playing dynamics (that is their purpose after all - to squash dynamics). Compressors are great for cleans and tones with just a touch of dirt, but I would recommend just using the natural compression of a distorted/overdriven guitar for anything of medium gain or above.
If you have to have a compressor, get a Barber Tone Press - best on the market - has a "blend" knob which enables you to blend the compressed signal to the dry (uncompressed) signal, to get the mix you want. From fully dry to fully compressed. It's a top quality pedal and nothing else around at the price will have the same functions.
Alan
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Alan's suggestions are excellent (Welcome to the form btw). I am a clean tone player but even I have to get a bit of filth there for some of the stuff I have to do in a covers band and I used a Korg multi box(I wont go into the reasoning) which was "ok" in places but the distortions were not convincing. By chance I managed to get a Jekyll & Hyde pedal off Ebay for £63.00 the other day and I must say I am impressed with it. I use it with just a bit of grind on the Jekyll channel and a tad more on the Hyde and using my clean sounding Laney VC30, I was very pleased with the tone but, as Alan says, a compressor is a good idea for the sustain.Funnily enough yesterday I was with my brother and had the Llaney, J & H and his new USA Tele and my MIM BKP'd version and we compared notes. I used his BBE compressor for the purpose of sussing out the sweet spot and the combination sounded great- soa good overdrive and a good compressor and then a great delay pedal would be my suggestions.
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Watch ya Alan
I have found that through the Tiny Terror my Fuzz Factory sounds amazing, I've been really blown away by it. But through my Peavey valve king I mostly get doggy fart noises, and after an hour of fiddling I get an okish sound. So a distortion pedal that complements a Paevey Valve King would be good, maybe something with a more vintage tone than my fuzz factory.
Also when playing to solo from Californication receintly I found that I was lacking sustain, my guitar teacher suggested that I play it through a compressor. Does anyone have suggestions regarding compressor padals?
Thanks for the suggestions so far I will look into what you suggest.
Hello and welcome Sue :D
I always like a compressor in the armoury anyway. Having said that, I tend to be a 'clean' player. The one I swear by is the Barber 'Tone Press' - as you can blend the original signal with the compression in any mix you prefer. Because this can include no compression at all, it also doubles as a very nice clean boost - or line driver over longer lengths of cable. My favourite setting with Telecaster or Strat is what it's instruction sheet calls " magic dust for single coils ". Considering that we can usually get overdrive and reverb from the amp itself, I can honestly say that this is the only 'effects' pedal that I would miss. The rest I could sell tommorow. Your tastes or needs may vary of course.
Certainly a subtle blend of compression sounds lovely if you are playing some Pink Floyd like the intro to 'Wish You Where Here' - or other mellow Dave Gilmour gems. Pedal on for the clean(ish ) soaring intro - then off again for the jangling chord voicings e.t.c
Even with a cheaper, non blendable 'full on' compressor like the Boss CS3 - I would heartily recommend you get down to a local store and have a play. The ideas of where it would / would not fit in with your tonal pallette will become clear quite quickly.
Having said that, they say a good compressor, or compressor setting only becomes apparent / can be appreciated when you switch it off again - and notice what you've lost.
Enjoy the fun !
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Well thats certainly a lot of food for thought so far. I like the idea of the Barber 'Tone Press', as Wish You Were Here is a fav song to play, and getting sustain on a clean sound is one of the things that I'm lacking.
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Howdie.
I'm a clean/distortion sorta guy, my only pedals for a while have been a tuner and a box for dirt. How about something exotic like a wah? I'll be experimenting with delay soon, t'will be like relearning how to play i think, trying to work delay into my sound excites me.
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I'm sure I will go exotic in the future, if only because I'm a sucker for a new toy :D
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Not much of a mention of chorus pedals - are they out of vogue at the moment?
Personally, I love a good chorus - think John Sykes on Whitesnake 1987! DigiTech was my last chorus, Boss before that. Stick it through a good loud clean amp with good pickups and very little else and you can't go far wrong!
Mark.
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A Small Clone from H-E will give you a nice wobble, a-la Nirvana. A fun effect, not something I've used much though. Maybe when I'm famous. Yes, when.
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Welcome,
there is a compressor thread running from about 3 weeks ago, which may be worth searching for.
If you are into cleaner tones (WYWH for example) some sort of modulation effect may be fun. phasing or flanging may give a wider interesting range of tones than than a chorus (I'm still recovering from the the excess of chorus used I experiences in the 80s)
A delay may also be an idea (theres some excellent inexpensive delays around)
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I think there are a few pedals everyone should have.
A good Wah is important imo - And none better for gain use than the Morley Bad Horsie - Although if you want a subtler effect you could try some of the more traditional wahs.
An electro harmonix Small Stone - Superb phaser, sounds great - Think of paranoid android etc.
A good Compressor is allways usefull - I use a Monte Allums modded BOSS CS-3, which is a really good mod - but the pedal on it's own really isn't great. You could save yourself the trouble of the modding and buy something like a Keeley compressor, but these are alot more expensive.
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For sustain, I would value technique over a pedal. sounds boring, but I noticed a change over time, about 18months of guitarring, and sustain won't be a particular bother... unless you want about 2 hours of it
I find that a strange comment. Long violin-type note sustain only comes with certain levels of distortion. Compression (which saturated distortion includes anyway) also increases sustain. Also interaction between the strings and speakers at higher volume can also give sustain through feedback.
No amount of technique will give long violin-like sustain solo lines. You have to have lots of distortion, period.
Sue, the Crunch Box pedal I mentioned earlier will give you more gain and sustain than you will ever need, if you want it to.
Alan
I was just bringing my experience into the equation really, (and maybe 2 hours was a little off :roll: ) and at an early stage of guitaring, I believe it would be better to get the overall technique of guitar tighter rather than buy stuff in. but, you seem keen on the idea, so you are happy to put a little money into it, and I'm sure the results will be good :)
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Wow thanks guys you sure have thrown me a lot of suggestions so far, and its all stuff I would not have come up with on my own. There are a lot of brands there that are not exactly at you local music shop. I think so far my (long term) shopping list goes something like this:
*Barber Tone Press (I've been playing some clean lead stuff lately and I'm certainly lacking sustain)
*MI Audio Crunch Box (When I need retail therapy I can just buy one locally, what's the point of fighting the inevitable :D )
*Himmelstrutz Fetto, or Menatone King of the Britains, or Wampler Indyguitarist Plextortion (I do play a lot of vintage tone type of songs)
*electro harmonix Small Stone (because I'm looking to play paranoid android in the future, and it's a well cool sound)
Although it's always subject to change on the day I learn a new song and carn't get the sound I want.
Anyways what do you guys think of my list so far any suggestions.
Thanks
Sue
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Wow thanks guys you sure have thrown me a lot of suggestions so far, and its all stuff I would not have come up with on my own. There are a lot of brands there that are not exactly at you local music shop. I think so far my (long term) shopping list goes something like this:
*Barber Tone Press (I've been playing some clean lead stuff lately and I'm certainly lacking sustain)
*MI Audio Crunch Box (When I need retail therapy I can just buy one locally, what's the point of fighting the inevitable :D )
*Himmelstrutz Fetto, or Menatone King of the Britains, or Wampler Indyguitarist Plextortion (I do play a lot of vintage tone type of songs)
*electro harmonix Small Stone (because I'm looking to play paranoid android in the future, and it's a well cool sound)
Although it's always subject to change on the day I learn a new song and carn't get the sound I want.
Anyways what do you guys think of my list so far any suggestions.
Thanks
Sue
Sounds like a good plan Sue. If you ever get a Fetto, don't let me anywhere near it, because I'll just have to "acquire" it from you !!
I'd also be looking at getting a delay (can't beat a Boss DD-20) at some point. Delays are used in so many styles, and can really fill out the sound - almost essential for solos IMO.
BTW, I've also got an Indyguitarist Plexidrive in the post (more Jtm45 than Plexi). When that and the KotB arrive I'll give a you both a call and we could meet up for a "pedalfest" if you want.
Alan
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Alan when I saw that you were suggesting a Boss pedal I thought finally something cheap, but no it's about the dearest Boss pedal ever :D .
A pedalfest sounds like a good idea to me.
Thanks
Sue
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this is the best compressor of all time!
David Gilmour apparently used it on his latest album, 'On An Island'
check the link:
http://www.robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=8
I'm actually buying one myself in a couple of weeks, best of luck to you.
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Wow sounds really good, let me know how it goes when you get one. A compressor will certainly be my next buy after I've paid Wez for my new guitar. I think he will be upset if I tell him I spent his money on pedals.
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I think he will be upset if I tell him I spent his money on pedals.
I'm sure he'd understand :twisted:
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:lol: I still have the guitar!!!! :twisted:
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Hmm..... good point well made.
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I used to use compressors but found they just make it easier for you to play when you really only need more practice - to a certain degree certainly.
In any case, I love the sound of the EBS Multicomp on "tube mode". I think it's supposed to be a bass compressor, but it has different modes and sounds great, also works a bit as a slight overdrive in "tube mode". Unfortunately, it's not exactly cheap.
Wah, modulation, overdrives. Those are the main pedals.
I'd just go with pedals your favorite artists use. Why? Because there are just so many pedals on the market, it's easier just to pick an artist whose sound you like as a point of orientation.