Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Players => Topic started by: MDV on January 06, 2008, 03:11:02 AM
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This is a clip of my Legra (MDV602), all parts played with the bridge C-Pig on full whack through my pod XT (edit, and its all 4 tracked, 2 left, 2 right, except one octave part thats doubled and where there are harmonies its 6 guitars)
Its my first attempt at recording a full song seriously. Its taken me ages to get round to doing this (a few false starts along the way) and by christ do I wish my lazy ass did it sooner!
I'd love to know what you lot think
(I already know the intro is sloppy, so go easy on that please!)
Its a bit of a crazy song structure: makes more sense after a couple of listens.
Enjoy! (I hope!)
P.S. Its called Memento Mori, which means "Remember you are mortal". The band is called mortal coil (dont bother looking for us, we dont have a myspace or anything)
http://www.4shared.com/file/34004099/c46353f/Memento_Mori.html
I'm not 100% sure the link will work cos I just signed up for that site, so if nothing else hopefully someone can dl it successfully!
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Pretty crushing tone. That said, my biggest complaint is the bit of mud and it seems like there is a bit of body missing to the whole song. Am i right in thinking that the drums are processed? They certainly sound it, so i would use more verb on the snare track. I would EQ the fvck out of the kick drum (its barely there): i would raise the mids and treble on the attack, and give it a pretty good make-over on the low-end - even the cymbals could use a touch of verb because they decay far too quickly in the mix.
As for the guitars, there is a definite tone there, however, there is very little body to the overall mix - it feels, for lack of a better term, limp. There is not a rich fullness of sound. There are several things that could be done pre- and post-mix here: 1) Bring up the 1k - 4k range a dB or two on the guitar tracks. Though, like you said these were all doubled, or, in some cases sextupled, so another thing to do is to push some tracks and not others. 2) Also, it feels like you didn't pan much of anything, this could help massively. And since you have so many damn guitar tracks just spread them all over the board, the drums could use it too; everything seems to be pushed to the front with the drums. (of course, i am listening on my macbook speakers :roll:). 3) lastly, you could EQ the final mix track and bring up the 250 - 750 range maybe 1k and a touch of the 8k.
These are all just suggestions of course. Interesting track, some parts were pretty good, others sort of generic, but you gots da good dissonance goin on dere brotha'! :)
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Thanks for the advice, Opp.
I dont think I'll be spending much time (if any) wrestling with this to get it to sound good, though. Its not the 'real' recording. Its just my POD.
I have, however, I will be using your comments and will keep it all in mind (especially on the drums) when I record the real one, with amps and mics :twisted:
Oh, all of it but the drums was panned hard left and hard right, two tracks per channel most of the time.
Anyone else?
Any musical comentary anyone would like to give?
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brootalz
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I like it - I could imagine it to be a blistering tune live.
I had a play with it in Cool Edit Pro and a simple boost across the board upto 2k gives some defination in the guitar and also body to the overall sound. Still can't hear any kick drum though.
:twisted:
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Conspicuously neutral statement, dave :lol:
Thanks HTH!
I must admit I didnt pay much attention to the sound of the drums. I will in the main track.
My mission for this week, should I choose to accept it, is to record all the guitars again with real amps and mics as best I can and get the drums to sound good. I'll bear in mind the advice here for the tone, thanks folks. I doubt an MD421, SM57 and audix i5 infront of a screamer and TSL will have the same problems as the pods tone. I expect it will have a whole bunch of new ones :shock:
I will repost it when its done.
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Conspicuously neutral statement, dave :lol:
nah, i liked it. i posted that at the start when i was hearing the tone more than anything else. after hearing the whole piece, i liked the tune as well. :)
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Cool!
P.S. I doubt you think I was but I wasnt getting at you if you didnt like it either!
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One thing though MDV, you have alot of BKPs - how about using the ceramic WP on one side and the 22K MM on the other?
I just think it'll widen your tone a bit and give us the opportunity to hear different BKPs in METAL action.
:twisted:
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One thing though MDV, you have alot of BKPs - how about using the ceramic WP on one side and the 22K MM on the other?
I just think it'll widen your tone a bit and give us the opportunity to hear different BKPs in METAL action.
:twisted:
RRRAAAAARRR FVCK YEAH, i'm with him!
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Well heres an effort with real amps and mics and stuff, and re-mixed drums, that I thought sounded good in cubase, and I just listened to it in winamp and it lost SO much high end. I'm not amused!
But nonetheless, for your perusal gentlemen, a fragment of the intro with my first attempt at the 'real' tone (after 3 hours of mucking about with basically every piece of sound gear I have!).
http://www.4shared.com/file/34173749/580c6afb/Memento_Mori-Intro_clip_Tone_Test.html
Not a real attempt, though, cos like I say, I dont like it. It lost so much snap and crunch, but I'd appreciate your comments anyway!
I'll try a multi-guitar sound tomorrow (along with compensating for the high end loss that this mixdown suffered!). Its a good idea.
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Well heres an effort with real amps and mics and stuff, and re-mixed drums, that I thought sounded good in cubase, and I just listened to it in winamp and it lost SO much high end. I'm not amused!
On my laptop speakers here I can hardly hear any guitar, the drums are too high in the mix I suppose...
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Damn!
Thanks Hunter. I'll hike the guitars up later (work now)
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OK, I have a question: The tone coming out of my amp, to my ears, is almost offesively bright and tight. But the recorded sound is muddy.
I can imrpove it in cubase with about 4 db less around 250hz and 2 db more around 2k (thanks HTH!), but its still nothing like what I'm hearing.
The amp is on a carpet floor. Is this the problem? Or do I just have to EQ it to all hell?
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Cool!
P.S. I doubt you think I was but I wasnt getting at you if you didnt like it either!
no worries mark :)
EDIT: oh, i'm listening to your "real amp" clip. Nice, sounds more like a real amp. but as you say, quite bright. but i like it.
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I thought it wasnt bright enough :?
Anyway, some compression and EQing and a different kick drum gives:
http://www.4shared.com/file/34254049/3cc06509/Memento_Mori-Intro_clip_Tone_Test-02.html
Which seems to be the best I can polish the turd I recorded with my (extremely limited) knowledge of production. Any thoughts?
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I liked the 2nd one better. I think it needs a bassline to fill too.
What mic/sound card/speakers do you use?
That might be the case of the quality change from the sound you hear to the sound of the file.
Also the position of the mic. You can experiment with it as there is no right or wrong way for doing it.
I also made some recordings before and tried to do the mixing and mastering by using the tyical gaming speaker set (2+subwoofer). Awful result. All the tracks lacked low end. Once I was hearing to much of it from the woofer I turned it down...lol
The speakers are essential for this kind of work. Only neutral studio monitors can do it.;)
Just don't let this let you down. The only way to achieve the sound you hear live, is to have the proper equipment and the right mic and mic position and you won't even need to EQ anything. ;)
I hope that helped....a bit....:)
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I think it needs a bassline, too. I've been thinking about that (and spent the last couple of hours hunting down parts of songs that I like the sound of where they break down to just the guitar and analysing the tone, and I've concluded it needs a bass! But thats OK, I have a bass. I'll probably have to DI it, but I have one)
That setup was
TSL602 amp
SM57 and MD421 mics (both at once, doubled and panned hard left and right)
EMU1616M souncard
Adam A7 monitors (;))
It sounds cr@p to me too! I could use the refferences of other people listening to it and advice from people that know much more than me.
I'm quite confident that my gear can deliver a good sound. I just need to find it. Then superglue all the dials invloved in place, put sandbags on the bottom of the mic stands, and cake the stand joints in cement.
I have various cunning plans, though, and will hit it again tomorrow :twisted: :twisted:
I close miced it, the MD421 dead centre, the 57 centre off axis. I'll try sticking a mic where it sounds good to my ears. I havent really mucked about with that yet, thanks for reminding me!
I also stuck the amp on polystyrene blocks that my hifi amp came packed in :lol: If nothing else I can hear the sound out of the amp more accurately cos I'm not getting as much reflection off the floor.
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Yeah. That setup can definitely deliver a good sound. It is a matter of time then.;) Just mess around haha.
Carry on! :)
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I thought it wasnt bright enough :?
Anyway, some compression and EQing and a different kick drum gives:
http://www.4shared.com/file/34254049/3cc06509/Memento_Mori-Intro_clip_Tone_Test-02.html
Which seems to be the best I can polish the turd I recorded with my (extremely limited) knowledge of production. Any thoughts?
This one was so much better than the pod version. Yeah, i do agree it needs bass, but i don't think that is really what the problem is. I think the problem is there is way too much mud. The tone is nice enough, but there is no clarity and, even still a bigger problem, the sound ins't what one might call "big", if that makes sense. It doesn't sound in the least bit as huge as it should. I don't know what to tell you, about what is going on now, but i would say the last resort being a new mic?
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I thought it wasnt bright enough :?
Anyway, some compression and EQing and a different kick drum gives:
http://www.4shared.com/file/34254049/3cc06509/Memento_Mori-Intro_clip_Tone_Test-02.html
Which seems to be the best I can polish the turd I recorded with my (extremely limited) knowledge of production. Any thoughts?
:lol:
to be fair, i hate treble.
not too sure about that newest one... it sounds kinda similar to the pod. i liked the second one, though as i said, perhaps a little too bright (for the genre). but definitely sounded "good".
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I thought it wasnt bright enough :?
Anyway, some compression and EQing and a different kick drum gives:
http://www.4shared.com/file/34254049/3cc06509/Memento_Mori-Intro_clip_Tone_Test-02.html
Which seems to be the best I can polish the turd I recorded with my (extremely limited) knowledge of production. Any thoughts?
Can you post the seperate files for the drums and guitar parts?
I don't think it's the guitar muddying the mix - the drums are quite muffled and confusing the low end.
For metal drums with that punch in the low end and slap in the high end you essentially want a sucked-mids EQ. Try cutting the drums around 2-3KHz (3dB should do it). A boost at 250Hz gives you a solid bass 'note' rather than just bass rumble. A boost around 5-7KHz will give you that 'click' you hear on the kick drum on Pantera records.
This website seems pretty good from the five minutes I've spent looking... http://homerecording.about.com/
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I thought that was pretty excellent mate.
But two problems with my opinion on that;
1.) I'm about as familiar with metal tone as I am with quantum physics (read; not very)
2.) I know shitee all about recording.
:D
Anyway, do something that HTH mentioned to the drums; just the mention of that sweet, SWEET Pantera kickdrum made me dig out the old Pantera tunes.
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Y'know, I've been doing it again today trying to get the tone clear on its own, every note intelligable, and while its a LONG way from the sound I'd like Ive managed to get the fast low B's (its drop B, btw) to sound fairly separate and clear.
Then I recorded some bass (very badly, one take, just for the frequencies) and EQ'd the $%&# out of it, cos its a cr@ppy encore and I DI'd it.
So far so good. The bass filled out the frequency spectra nicely, and gave it some real band-feel heaviness.
Then I brought the drums back in and all that was left of the PMs is a snappy high mid. No depth, no body, no gutsy guitar. Take out the kick and its fine (as far as the sound allows). Put the kick back in slowly and I heard its in almost exactly the same frequencies as the low end of the guitar, and they both blend and get lost.
So, HTH, I believe you are completely right. Thank you VERY MUCH for the advice about EQing the kick, I've been hearing the differnce between my dull lifeless, muddy kick and the ones I know and love all evening, but knowing what frequencies to go for is a big help!
I'll bounce the drums down so I can manipulate them and sort this cr@p out! :D
Plus, I have high hopes of my engl screamer giving a better sound when I re-valve it later this week. It hasnt been itself for a few months now :cry:
And cheers, Sambo and dave! I appreciate it!
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post the drums by themself and I'll have a go at EQ'ing them - I'll ideally need the kick, snare and overheads seperate.
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HTH youre a $%&#ing star!
I just had my first week back at work, and it felt like a month so I'm gonna spend some quality time with some beer and bash a guitar for pure fun, like the good old days, and I'll post up the drums and guitars seperately tomorrow!
:D
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If you have the tracks separate you can track down the frequencies you like by making a narrow (not very) and tall EQ peak and move it across the frequency spectrum while listening carefully. When you find them, adjust the frequencies you like and those you don't as desired (not TOO much though).
However there are some basic "rules" like HTH said above. ;)
Ideally you sould have separate frequency bands for each instrument to have them all sound clearly, or by cutting the frequencies of an instrument that blends with another.
Good luck and have fun! :)