Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Jonny on January 08, 2008, 08:50:21 PM
-
Before I joined the forum, it was just
'Oh, a Les Paul'
'Oh, a SG'
But now, it's just a SG & Les Paul banaza!
What's so good about Les Pauls and SGs? Not saying there's anything bad, but what would convince me enough to pick up a Tokai (can't say I'll be picking up a Gibson anytime soon) and throw away those two last frets and possibly sacrificing sitting down. (From saying that, I spent a good hour or so looking for a 24 fret non-existing Les Paul)
Most people (who's active) have an SG (i.e. Twinfan) or a Les Paul (i.e. ailean)
Just a general discussion about it. It interests me. I feel like I've insulted the general members of the forum but that wasn't my intention. Don't kill me..
-
I've had both and sold both. They dont do it for me.
-
You'll find plenty of members who aren't Gibson model fans.
If there was a strat-appreciation thread, you'd probably be overwhelmed by the supporters in that category too.
I guess it's just because Les Pauls and SGs are among the classic models of guitars. Icons, if you will.
As for the thing about number of frets. Well, if you need 24 frets, then you need 24 frets; and traditionally SGs and LPs only have 22. There's no getting round that. So maybe SGs and LPs just don't suit your playing style.
No big deal.
:D
EDIT: ^There we go. :)
-
Well sometimes I don't need 24 frets, and comfort could be better (neck and body shape) on Les Pauls. They didn't make it a law to only have one guitar. ;)
I have 5 and I don't mind more. :P
I'm a guitar player but there is an enthusiast side of me.
-
Haha.
Well obviously it's just personal preference. Personally I find my Les Paul extremely comfortable; body and neck shape.
On the enthusiast side of things, an LP is an essential part of a collection!
They look gorgeous, and unlike most modern models they just feel like a thing of beauty and have character. That's my personal attraction to them anyway.
Even strats look and feel a bit bland and boring to me personally.
-
Most people (who's active) have an SG (i.e. Twinfan) or a Les Paul (i.e. ailean)
Or both :lol: I have four SGs and six LPs which, quite frankly, is a stupid amount :roll:
For me, it's all about simplicity and mahogany. I love the tone of the wood, and I like the classic designs of Gibsons. I also have a mahogany Flying V for the same reasons, so I guess I should have an Explorer to complete the set. Trouble is, the Explorer is just too clunky for me to like - I do like the Firebird Studio though.
I think the more "old skool" you are, the more you like the classic designs your heros used. For me, Slash was a MASSIVE influence on how a rock guitarist should look. If I'd been more into U2, maybe that Explorer would be more appealing.....
-
I've really anything but the standard two-horn guitar, I suppose it could be so much better! But, I need a guitar for that obviously.
I have too many random guitars.
An Indie, an Ibanez, a Jackson, an Encore/Vintage.
It's like the Addams Family of guitars.
I wish I went for a Tokai Les Paul than the Indie maybe, I'm starting to like the Tokai Love Rock, with a sextacular top on it. It would make my day, no doubt about it.
-
the Les Paul and SG are just FANTASTIC guitars.
The LEs Paul is a classic guitar with a classic combination of woods that work incredibly well together to give a very balanced, and thick tone that simply can't be gotten out of anything else. Yes it's bulky and uncomfortable and it only has 22 frets, but play one for any amount of time and it doesn't matter because it's quite clearly the hammer of the gods.
The SG oozes cool. It's great for those who find the LP just TOO big to handle. They're usually a bit lighter, and they're far more comfortable to play due to the slender shape. The lack of maple top on this model means that it's slightly darker than a les paul, making up for any lack of wood in comparison with a thick, earthy tone. It's very much a less-is-more guitar.
In fact; the less-is-more philosophy is probably what makes these guitars stand out from the rest. There's no tremolo to fiddle with, no coil taps, no locking tuners, nuts. It's a very simply, reliable, musician-friendly format that makes you want to play!
-
i'm not a fan of either but thats more to do with wastefull, flawed designs rather than not liking to play them.
In fact i do quite like playing them when they are nice examples
I do like the shapes, its purely structural things that bug me
-
...There's no tremolo to fiddle with...
Au contraire ;)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r267/junkacct/SGs.jpg)
-
I love the finishes. And no doubt sound awesome.
(http://myguitarpage.narod.ru/images/tokai.jpg)(http://www.thirdhandcollectibles.com/images/guitars/tok_lpwine_med.jpg)
(http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/2893/custommadespaltedmapletop0mi.jpg)
I wanna buy one now. :(
Are Korean ones good? Or good ol' Japanese ones are a go? I thought both were, and Chinese ones were absolute cack.
-
Go Japanese if you can afford it, Korean if not and avoid Chinese. That's the ranking order at the moment!
A used Japanese Tokai Love Rock should be about £400. Cracking value for money.
-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-LS48-Les-Paul-Electric-Guitar-Black-Finish_W0QQitemZ300186373276QQihZ020QQcategoryZ112670QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
SAY IT ISN'T SO! :(
-
Yep, that's a Korean model and the right price for a new one :)
Great seller too from what I've heard.
-
For me, Les Pauls are the perfect guitar. I love how they feel on a strap, and the sound is great. People always complain about upper fret acces but its really not that bad once you get used to it. Plus, they just look pure rock and roll :)
I do want an SG though, the only thing I dont like about most that I've tried is the neck heaviness when on a strap, but SG Jrs look so cool.
-
Yep, that's a Korean model and the right price for a new one :)
Great seller too from what I've heard.
At a glance it rocks, a second glance, it's Made In China. :(
EDIT: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-Love-Rock-LS75-Electric-Guitar-Black-Finish_W0QQitemZ300187546705QQihZ020QQcategoryZ112670QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This is more like it. MADE IN JAPAN.
But £520.
Another EDIT: Found one for £420! OK, I'm getting too excited for nothing..
-
It is indeed :D
However ... No maple cap. No mahogany body - or neck.
These are what make a Les Paul what it is.
I've played a LP for 8 years solid now and I love it. It's a terrific workhorse and if you're a gigging musician it's robustness is vital.
Added to that is the distinctive tone that very few guitars can emulate.
I have a Gibson LP and if you have the budget for it, that's what to go for ... but there are great alternatives. Japanese Tokai Love Rock's appear to be a cut above in the LP copies. The 80's Yamaha LP's and indeed SG's are excellent as well - if you can get one in good condition.
I can't see me changing from an LP as my first line gigging guitar. It's just far too dependable.
I can't comment on the classic Gibson SG shape as I've never owned one ... yet :wink:
-
Until I can actually sell some of my stuff I don't see me getting anywhere near a Gibson
And having a job too, lol..
-
I do want an SG though, the only thing I dont like about most that I've tried is the neck heaviness when on a strap, but SG Jrs look so cool.
The thing about that is, the whole guitar is so light you just get used to holding the neck in the right position.
It's like fighting a little child, slightly annoying but basically easy enough to cope with.
-
I do want an SG though, the only thing I dont like about most that I've tried is the neck heaviness when on a strap, but SG Jrs look so cool.
The thing about that is, the whole guitar is so light you just get used to holding the neck in the right position.
It's like fighting a little child, slightly annoying but basically easy enough to cope with.
With your hand(s) around it's neck - the guitar that is, HA HA!
-
This may be a sacreligious statement but whatever guitar I seem to play, so long as it's got a humbucker in the bridge position, I still end up sounding like me. I don't really hear huge differences between strats, teles, LP's, PRS's and SG's.
Single coils and HB's, yes I hear a big difference.
So I choose my guitar mainly on the neck. My fingers are way too fat at the ends to ever consider fitting into tight spaces, so I don't need 24 frets. I also need at least a 43mm nut width (again to fit my fingers in) - that eliminates a lot of guitars !
Most LP's with a 50's style neck just feel right to me, nice and chunky - good for big hands. My fingers fit, and my playing goes well.
Oh, and LP's generally look classy and gorgeous, IMHO.
(http://www.box.net/shared/static/b7vgo7gg0g.jpg)
-
Continuing from Indy's (I think) point of less being more, all those controls mean it is quite versatile, and the fun of mixing all the different tone in the middle position.
Then on places like HC reviews people complain that it doesn't have many features! When to be honest trems aren't needed that much anyway, and the feature that they provide can be emulated anyway...
I find a Les Paul comfortable, and the balance is just right when standing as you don't have to hold the neck, and for example can put stuff you write onto Guitar Pro as you play, and when sitting, it is dead balanced, it doesn't tip either way.
and an epi SG that I played... well I think it was scary, didn't want to grip the neck too hard, just looked fragile, but still had a strong sound
-
I can hear the difference when using tone knobs, but really I'd get so confused and lost with FOUR knobs as to what would produce a good sound.
-
(http://www.box.net/shared/static/b7vgo7gg0g.jpg)
Corrrr blimey that's a gorgeous top! :o
-
I do want an SG though, the only thing I dont like about most that I've tried is the neck heaviness when on a strap, but SG Jrs look so cool.
The thing about that is, the whole guitar is so light you just get used to holding the neck in the right position.
It's like fighting a little child, slightly annoying but basically easy enough to cope with.
yea, the few times I've played them it was really annoying - I didnt like having to hold up the neck to be able to play it, I'm not used to having to put that much effort into my playing :lol: :P
-
I currently have 8 LP's and 1 SG (junior - if you're just going to have one the junior is the one for me). Through the years I have had many other ones, and always was a Les Paul fan. However, my favourite guitar is still a Strat.
Les Pauls are great for classic rock fat tones, though the different models do have different sounds. 5 of my LP's have P-90 pickups, which for me make them blues monsters (along with the SG).
I do have another SG in the works too, which will also have P-90's (and a 25.5" scale).
At the end of the day it really depends on the music that you are playing. In my last heavy gigging band I used to use a double cutaway LP Special and a Strat but the one thing that used to bother me when I was switching was going from a Strat to a Les Paul between songs (going the other way always seemed easier).
-
as to the 24 fret thing, you can get them. there are both Gibson and Epiphone Tony Iommi SG's with 24 frets, and while i don't know of a Gibson version, ESP do their 24 fret interpretation. is it the Eclipse? you can even get it with a Floyd Rose!
-
Solid Mahogany guitars (whether capped or not) with humbuckers thro a decent amp IS rock and roll................
-
this will be an obvious post to many, but anyway ;)
i've tried really hard to like strats, i mean really, and i can't.
on the other hand the gibson style - with a big piece of mahogany and twin humbuckers really does work sound wise. and i think P90s sound great too. i have exactly one SG and one Les Paul, and they both have P90s.
designwise - don't forget the angled neck and head stock. fixed bridge is an advantage too i think, tune-o-matic is perfect for palm-muting.
the SG is a very accessible guitar in many ways, light, easy to play, cool sounding, and subjectively good looking... and you can play any style of music with it and the look and the sound will cover it with great ablomb.
the weight, or thickness of the les paul body give it that classic rich and full tone. upper frets could be difficult to access without the right technique.
-
ablomb?
-
ablomb?
sorry, aplomb... should really check my spelling.
-
aplomb?
lol..
-
lol ;)
it means 'poise and confidence'. in other words i meant SGs can have a go at anything and do it well.
-
It's all NUANCES!
Males brains work in a way that we are visual (aka women ;) ).
LP's tend to LOOK the part.
Now, the nuances. An LP is a big heavy piece of tree so sounds fat and rich. Is a SG gonna sound the same? NO. But it can sound very similar to many ears.
Over the years it has become very apparent that an amp/speaker will ultimately show the tone. IMO playing with just slight grit (none of this 11 gain raging on drop z tuning or whatever, thats a 6 string Bass people) will show the tone of any given guitar better.
Les pauls are iconic, thus many desire/want/have one. Does it make you play any different? I would say not. Your fingers make YOU play like you! Thats why trying to 'cop' a fave tone is nigh on impossible.
Gibson have/do make some fine instruments. They also make very high priced packing crates! Quality control is a swear word for the most part these days with many :(
I think about it like this.
Your picking hand is set, string spacing is marginal in it's change as is bridge etc.
The NECK is where you spend your 'intricate' time. So the neck of a guitar is paramount to me!
If a Les Paul feels right on the neck then I am happy, or if it's a 200 quid partoguitar same thing.
I had some 'maleness' recently when I bought my PRS. I always looked upon them as 'Wall Hangers' (that is pretty pieces of wood too nice to play even if they are good). I picked one up and could'nt put it down, due to it's neck mostly.
This is why so much trading goes on, IMO, guys look at guitars, like what they SEE, think it's right and buy it. Only to receive it and be unhappy with what they bought.
I know it's not easy to demo gear (trust me the States is NO different) but truly to spend time (and NOT in a noisy rushed enviroment) with a potential purchase is a much more assured way to choose gear.
-
Going into my Economics Mode..
I think it's just from brand loyalty, etc. cause you have people like Slash playing the Les Paul and other artists, then you have people who buy it the fact that Slash plays it, then you have people following that and so and so on, and even people who have no idea but say 'Oh, that's a great sounding guitar! Slash plays a Les Paul'
And the flashy cool finishes, etc. just keep the eyes latched on Gibson. They're probably good guitars nonetheless.
I'll hopefully try a Les Paul (TOKAIPLZ) and maybe an SG on Saturday or something. I've never tried a real Stratocaster either, I've got a copy one, but I assume the feeling of body and neck is totally different.
-
fwiw Slash started out playing Les Paul custom made copies, NOT Gibsons.
See, it's a visual thang :)
Therefore, your strat copy may be a better player for you than a Fender, see how it goes :)
And BTW Slash is a veritable ameba when it comes to the LP.
-
My Dad is of the school that Gibson and Marshall= quality. He couldn't wrap his head round that I traded down my USA made Gibson SG for a MIM Strat. Never mind the SG was an arse to play, and the Strat is what I was wanting.
Now you bar-stewards have me confused! My Epi LP is getting retired (massive fret wear and I can't face paying money to upgrade it) and I plan on building a Warmoth guitar, Gibson body, Fender neck scale, single humbucker. Swinging between a LP and a SG though. I can't decide.
-
fwiw Slash started out playing Les Paul custom made copies, NOT Gibsons.
See, it's a visual thang :)
Therefore, your strat copy may be a better player for you than a Fender, see how it goes :)
But I can't play a guitar, and think - oh it's too fat of a neck and then pick up another and go, this is thinner.
Unless it's extreme.
-
fwiw Slash started out playing Les Paul custom made copies, NOT Gibsons.
See, it's a visual thang :)
Therefore, your strat copy may be a better player for you than a Fender, see how it goes :)
But I can't play a guitar, and think - oh it's too fat of a neck and then pick up another and go, this is thinner.
Unless it's extreme.
-
fwiw Slash started out playing Les Paul custom made copies, NOT Gibsons.
See, it's a visual thang :)
Therefore, your strat copy may be a better player for you than a Fender, see how it goes :)
But I can't play a guitar, and think - oh it's too fat of a neck and then pick up another and go, this is thinner.
Unless it's extreme.
then simply put, and cannot help you with this, only YOU and time will tell. You hav'nt played enough or played enough guitars. NOT being sarcastic, but it only comes with time.
-
fwiw Slash started out playing Les Paul custom made copies, NOT Gibsons.
See, it's a visual thang :)
Therefore, your strat copy may be a better player for you than a Fender, see how it goes :)
But I can't play a guitar, and think - oh it's too fat of a neck and then pick up another and go, this is thinner.
Unless it's extreme.
Playability isn't all about neck size. And I'm sure between a Les Paul and a strat/superstrat you will tell the difference in neck size anyway.
-
I have to say that before I got my Gibson LP I played a '94 Korean built Epiphone LP for a few years - for gigs as well.
Now this Epi LP was and still is a good one but it simply can't compete with my Gibson LP, in terms of tone, feel and build quality.
In my book the reason that lots of people - 'stars' and us normal people - use a Gibson LP is simply the fact that when you actively compare a copy LP against a Gibson LP you will clearly see/hear and feel a difference between them.
I may well buy a copy LP in the future (80's Yamaha) but knowing what a real one is like I wont be expecting the same quality.
-
I may well buy a copy LP in the future (80's Yamaha) but knowing what a real one is like I wont be expecting the same quality.
Owning a GOOD Les Paul from 90' if I remember (give take a year) I usually expect many copies to be better quality these days off the shelf compared to a newer LP, sad to say.
Of course depending how you class copy, Tokai, Greco, PRS, Custom etc.
-
fwiw Slash started out playing Les Paul custom made copies, NOT Gibsons.
See, it's a visual thang :)
Therefore, your strat copy may be a better player for you than a Fender, see how it goes :)
But I can't play a guitar, and think - oh it's too fat of a neck and then pick up another and go, this is thinner.
Unless it's extreme.
then simply put, and cannot help you with this, only YOU and time will tell. You hav'nt played enough or played enough guitars. NOT being sarcastic, but it only comes with time.
That's true. :)
Since I haven't tried a Les Paul, SG or Fender, lol..
-
I may well buy a copy LP in the future (80's Yamaha) but knowing what a real one is like I wont be expecting the same quality.
You get what you pay for, even in the vintage MIJ market. I think a lot of people expect to get an insanely top-end LP for a budget-price by buying an old MIJ copy, which is of course, not the case.
Speaking from total hearsay (so don't quote me on this whatsoever :lol:), the actual high-end MIJ clones are supposed to be every bit as good as the best Gibsons.
I also think playing a les paul (as opposed to a GIBSON les paul), comes from more than just branding. The design, feel, sound, and looks are all great. Even if every favorite guitarist of mine used an Ibanez RG and the marketing was forced on me immensely, I doubt I'd ever buy one.
-
How many neck scales and neck shapes are there?
Is there more than one scale for a 21, 22, 24 fret neck?
-
Shapes, You Name It! Apart from several by most makers many 'shape' their neck. Ex. Jimmy Page modified centre part of his necks.
Basically if you find an old worn or new 'perfect' neck to YOU a good luthier should be able to reproduce this on another neck (if taking away rather than adding is req. of course).
-
As for scale lengths for number of frets; look at this way, a les paul and a strat both have 22 frets, yet the les paul has a scale length of 24.75 whereas the strat is 25.5
On top of that you have shape as Nick mentioned (or 'profile') and nut width. You can mix up any and all of these factors.
-
As for scale lengths for number of frets; look at this way, a les paul and a strat both have 22 frets, yet the les paul has a scale length of 24.75 whereas the strat is 25.5
On top of that you have shape as Nick mentioned (or 'profile') and nut width. You can mix up any and all of these factors.
So you can different thickness of neck, different scale of neck, different width at the nut.
Is nut width just if you have long fingers?
-
As for scale lengths for number of frets; look at this way, a les paul and a strat both have 22 frets, yet the les paul has a scale length of 24.75 whereas the strat is 25.5
On top of that you have shape as Nick mentioned (or 'profile') and nut width. You can mix up any and all of these factors.
So you can different thickness of neck, different scale of neck, different width at the nut.
Is nut width just if you have long fingers?
there is only ONE way to tell 'whats for YOU', go and play ALL you can of different breeds :lol:
-
As for scale lengths for number of frets; look at this way, a les paul and a strat both have 22 frets, yet the les paul has a scale length of 24.75 whereas the strat is 25.5
On top of that you have shape as Nick mentioned (or 'profile') and nut width. You can mix up any and all of these factors.
So you can different thickness of neck, different scale of neck, different width at the nut.
Is nut width just if you have long fingers?
there is only ONE way to tell 'whats for YOU', go and play ALL you can of different breeds :lol:
Holy cr@p. o_o
At least I'll have fun. LOL
-
Some people prefer a wider nut for wider string spacing, you can also muck about with bridge string spacing with an appropriate bridge. It could be that there hands are bigger or it helps with the style of music they play.
Shape/contour, thickness, taper, scale length, radius of fretboard, number of frets and size of frets can pretty much be whatever you want and are comfy with. Its just finding a guitar that has a combo that works for you!!
-
man, i am wanting an LP so bad, and i know the next guitar i personally build will be an SG. The problem i am having is trying out really shitety models at my local guitar stores. It has left a bat taste in my mouth. Maybe i am just not playing the right ones? I dunno. But LPs are fvcking gorgeous. They just look so damn nice, especially those flame burst ones.
By the way, is anybody else getting this horrific error message every other time you try to click on a post topic? It is bugging the shite out of me.
-
Ahhh I forgot fret size and fretboard radius as Wez says.
Opprobrium; maybe just try out a really high-end LP to at least get an idea of what they CAN be? Not sure beyond that. (and yup error message all the time)
-
Opprobrium; maybe just try out a really high-end LP to at least get an idea of what they CAN be? Not sure beyond that. (and yup error message all the time)
Agree 100%.
I got into guitars and Les Pauls probably via Slash worship. First electric was a pretty awful 70s black Les Paul copy by a company called Satellite but I didn't have anything better to compare to so suffered it until I could upgrade.
Next up was a Hohner L59 Les Paul copy. Cherry sunburst, flame veneer, gold hardware. Looking back, pretty tacky but it was miles better than the first and sounded half decent.
And now I'm playing a 1996 Gibson Les Paul Classic, which made the Hohner look and feel shite. It's a plain top in Honeyburst I think. Nickel hardware is all worn now, looks at least a decade older than it really is.. beautiful! :D
You definitely need to try out some "real" Les Pauls that have been set up decently.
-
It has left a bat taste in my mouth. m
Ozzy? is that you?
:lol: :roll: (sorry)
-
As for scale lengths for number of frets; look at this way, a les paul and a strat both have 22 frets, yet the les paul has a scale length of 24.75 whereas the strat is 25.5
On top of that you have shape as Nick mentioned (or 'profile') and nut width. You can mix up any and all of these factors.
So you can different thickness of neck, different scale of neck, different width at the nut.
Is nut width just if you have long fingers?
there is only ONE way to tell 'whats for YOU', go and play ALL you can of different breeds :lol:
That's what I did basically.
I tried Gibson LP Standard, Studio, Custom and Classic ... and I mean a lot of them.
I think the sales guys in the stores thought I was taking the piss :D
In the end the one that suited me best was the LP Classic - probably as I liked the 60's tapered neck.
What was interesting at the time (2000) was how different the exact same model of Gibson LP could feel like to play - particularly Standards. It was possibly all down to how the guitar was set up but some were just cr@p to play and sounded the same and others sounded great.
I wouldn't advise buying any new guitar before playing it - which can be a bit of a pain.
-
As for scale lengths for number of frets; look at this way, a les paul and a strat both have 22 frets, yet the les paul has a scale length of 24.75 whereas the strat is 25.5
On top of that you have shape as Nick mentioned (or 'profile') and nut width. You can mix up any and all of these factors.
So you can different thickness of neck, different scale of neck, different width at the nut.
Is nut width just if you have long fingers?
there is only ONE way to tell 'whats for YOU', go and play ALL you can of different breeds :lol:
That's what I did basically.
I tried Gibson LP Standard, Studio, Custom and Classic ... and I mean a lot of them.
I think the sales guys in the stores thought I was taking the piss :D
In the end the one that suited me best was the LP Classic - probably as I liked the 60's tapered neck.
What was interesting at the time (2000) was how different the exact same model of Gibson LP could feel like to play - particularly Standards. It was possibly all down to how the guitar was set up but some were just cr@p to play and sounded the same and others sounded great.
I wouldn't advise buying any new guitar before playing it - which can be a bit of a pain.
Nah, I think you can still buy some good guitars sight unseen. Gibson IMO has forgotten the phrase 'quality control' and have lost their Pride.
Fender Custom Shop, Paul Reed Smith, just two names have bought sight unseen and have been PERFECT.
Personally I think Gibson are resting on their laurels WAAAAAY too much. Past glories do not gaurantee a companies current/future fortune.
TBH, it was VERY good PRS won their Singlecut lawsuit. You would think things like that would scare Gibson into stepping up their game. Least x-rays have seen of newer LP's have better weight relief than the older 'hack out the middle and lets go get a beer' they used to do.
-
Nah, I think you can still buy some good guitars sight unseen. Gibson IMO has forgotten the phrase 'quality control' and have lost their Pride.
Fender Custom Shop, Paul Reed Smith, just two names have bought sight unseen and have been PERFECT.
I bought my Ibanez JS1000BTB sight unseen but will never again do so. It's actually a great guitar and I love it but having played several Gibson's and Fenders in-store I realise just how variable quality can be even on supposedly professional grade instruments. It can be a risk with any manufacturer.
The last big shock I had was actually a Fender custom shop Strat priced around £1900 that, to me, felt truly awful. It was inherently "tight" to play and the sound lacked character. I got to A-B it in-store with an old JV Strat costing a 3rd of the price and it was a no-brainer which was the better guitar. If I'd bought the custom shop sight unseen I'd have been mortified! :)
Not that I'm saying Fender are as bad as Gibson (far from it); my own LP Classic has finishing issues that annoyed me so much at one point in the first year that I hated the guitar. Now I don't give a cr@p about the finish and love it for the feel and the vibe.
If you test a handful of guitars of the same model, some will feel better than others. If one stands out, you'll know you've found your guitar.
-
I am sure I have been lucky. Although still attain some are better bets than others (although trying the breed first is ALWAYS suggested to see if ya even like).
I have NOT however heard a bad word (certainly of late) about a certain breed I mentioned, guess they CARE :)
-
But Fender Custom Shop and PRS guitars are freakin' expensive.
-
^
so are Mercedes,BMW atc. but ya get somewhat what ya pay for :P
-
^
so are Mercedes,BMW atc. but ya get somewhat what ya pay for :P
Quite true.
I'm gonna go to the Belfast Guitar Emporium on Saturday and I'm gonna play ALL the Fenders, etc. there.
Or at least, the ones near the bottom so it isn't a hassle to take them down.
-
^
so are Mercedes,BMW atc. but ya get somewhat what ya pay for :P
Quite true.
I'm gonna go to the Belfast Guitar Emporium on Saturday and I'm gonna play ALL the Fenders, etc. there.
Or at least, the ones near the bottom so it isn't a hassle to take them down.
Nah. Do it the other way.
Start at the top. The one that's most expensive - then work down to the bottom.
You'll find one that will feel just right and that is your benchmark for all the rest.
-
I am sure I have been lucky. Although still attain some are better bets than others (although trying the breed first is ALWAYS suggested to see if ya even like).
I have NOT however heard a bad word (certainly of late) about a certain breed I mentioned, guess they CARE :)
You must have indeed been lucky but I suppose to be fair the vast majority of guitars made by the major companies will be fine to play. You're going to come across a small proportion that just feel 'wrong' and also a similar number that feel far better than the those that are just fine.
Personally I wouldn't want to be unlucky and shell out for a £1000-£2000 guitar - that I haven't played, only to find it's one of the 'wrong' ones :(
At the very least - for that kind of cash - I would be looking around for one of those guitars that simply feels a cut above the rest to play.
The 2 LP's that I own are examples of this. They both stood out from all the rest in the store, as guitars that felt and sounded far better than identical models.
It's probably just a personal preference thing, as to how a guitar feels but if you buy a new guitar without seeing it first, then you're denying yourself the chance to find one that's built just a little better or has been made from a higher quality piece of wood, for example.
Anyway ... This all just opinion.
I'm pretty certain there will be lots of people on this forum who are completely satisfied with guitars bought sight unseen. Although the thing is there may be those that aren't happy at all.
You just never know ... :wink:
-
It has left a bat taste in my mouth. m
Ozzy? is that you?
:lol: :roll: (sorry)
:lol: well done, i missed that.
-
^
so are Mercedes,BMW atc. but ya get somewhat what ya pay for :P
Quite true.
I'm gonna go to the Belfast Guitar Emporium on Saturday and I'm gonna play ALL the Fenders, etc. there.
Or at least, the ones near the bottom so it isn't a hassle to take them down.
Nah. Do it the other way.
Start at the top. The one that's most expensive - then work down to the bottom.
You'll find one that will feel just right and that is your benchmark for all the rest.
I meant literally, lol, they'll have to get a ladder to get the ones at the top. lol..
-
I am sure I have been lucky. Although still attain some are better bets than others (although trying the breed first is ALWAYS suggested to see if ya even like).
I have NOT however heard a bad word (certainly of late) about a certain breed I mentioned, guess they CARE :)
You must have indeed been lucky but I suppose to be fair the vast majority of guitars made by the major companies will be fine to play. You're going to come across a small proportion that just feel 'wrong' and also a similar number that feel far better than the those that are just fine.
Personally I wouldn't want to be unlucky and shell out for a £1000-£2000 guitar - that I haven't played, only to find it's one of the 'wrong' ones :(
At the very least - for that kind of cash - I would be looking around for one of those guitars that simply feels a cut above the rest to play.
The 2 LP's that I own are examples of this. They both stood out from all the rest in the store, as guitars that felt and sounded far better than identical models.
It's probably just a personal preference thing, as to how a guitar feels but if you buy a new guitar without seeing it first, then you're denying yourself the chance to find one that's built just a little better or has been made from a higher quality piece of wood, for example.
Anyway ... This all just opinion.
I'm pretty certain there will be lots of people on this forum who are completely satisfied with guitars bought sight unseen. Although the thing is there may be those that aren't happy at all.
You just never know ... :wink:
Well, after one Fender CS Flathead I figured it was SOOO well put together then another from same seller sight unseen would be pretty safe bet.
And I have NEVER played a bad PRS. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than can be said for another major manufacturer whom I had to play literally 10's of LP's from to find my Good one.
Point is, if IMO PRS can do it (and they are cost to cost right there with another biggy) why can't the other?
Also, dunno bout UK as not tried when there, but here in US a GOOD dealer will allow you a period to try a guitar that is of any worth and return if not to your liking.
-
I'm gonna go to the Belfast Guitar Emporium on Saturday and I'm gonna play ALL the Fenders, etc. there.
Or at least, the ones near the bottom so it isn't a hassle to take them down.
try their tokai relic les paul, if they still have it, that is.
granted, it's almost as expensive as a gibson, but i tried one immediately after trying a les paul classic antique in marcus (ok, so that's about half an hour later, haha, they're hardly next door), and it was like trying a genuine gibson next to a cheap epiphone.
also try their eggle, but mine's nicer. :lol:
ok, just try everything they have.
out of interest, when were you last in the emporium? i haven't been in for about 6 months, and they were quite low on stock, but if they're back up (as their website suggests) i might take a spin down next week.
-
Well, after one Fender CS Flathead I figured it was SOOO well put together then another from same seller sight unseen would be pretty safe bet.
And I have NEVER played a bad PRS. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than can be said for another major manufacturer whom I had to play literally 10's of LP's from to find my Good one.
Point is, if IMO PRS can do it (and they are cost to cost right there with another biggy) why can't the other?
i agree nick. after all the japanese guitars i have tried, i was willing to take a chance on my edwards because, basically, to get something as good as an average edwards would cost me twice as much (far more if we're talking genuine gibson) in the UK.
at the end of the day, it comes down to money, and obviously QC. You have to assume you're going to get an "average" model, and Japanese QC is pretty good, certainly good enough to risk IMO. Unless I'd got a total lemon (which would have been sent back), I figured it would be at least as good as anything i could get for anything close to that price in the UK.
-
I'm gonna go to the Belfast Guitar Emporium on Saturday and I'm gonna play ALL the Fenders, etc. there.
Or at least, the ones near the bottom so it isn't a hassle to take them down.
try their tokai relic les paul, if they still have it, that is.
granted, it's almost as expensive as a gibson, but i tried one immediately after trying a les paul classic antique in marcus (ok, so that's about half an hour later, haha, they're hardly next door), and it was like trying a genuine gibson next to a cheap epiphone.
also try their eggle, but mine's nicer. :lol:
ok, just try everything they have.
out of interest, when were you last in the emporium? i haven't been in for about 6 months, and they were quite low on stock, but if they're back up (as their website suggests) i might take a spin down next week.
They have no PRSs, they have some Deans, 2nd hand Jacksons, Tokai in abundance, Gibsons and your usual Fenders. I popped in today to kill time (and try out necks) till my haircut. There was a unnamed red SG too which caught my eye and some arch tops.
We should meet Dave. I need your wisdom. :P
I'm a bit disappointed they don't have any more PRSs :( Now if I ever want one I'll have to order.
But I tried a Fender neck today, I think it was one of the more recent modern ones, 21 fret, etc. the neck was tiny as hell. Don't think a fender is for me. It was nice and thin though, I think I prefer fatter ones.
-
haha, i haven't got a notion, you're probably better off without my "wisdom"... :lol:
thanks though. i don't remember there being any deans or gibsons last time I was in, so sounds like they have some new stuff.
They actually said they'd be getting some new stuff in last time I was in, but they'd been saying that for so long without delivering that i just thought "yeah, sure... :roll: "
:lol:
-
lol.. They better well stock some damn PRSs
With the Deans I've seen, it just looks like another Matchetts (cool looking guitars, nothing better)
-
now that i think of it, maybe they had one dean last time i was in.
i'd heard matchetts had started to stock dean... haven't been in there in ages either. :lol:
-
Don't think they have.
You walk in, in the main 'guitar section'
-----------F/G/O--------------
|......................................|
C/L..._____JKS___...........IB
|......|..................|............|
|......|..................|............|
C/L = Copeland, Lefties
F/G/O = Fender, Gibson, Other (Epiphone, etc.)
JKS = Jackson, and other various other guitars which you can get in any color as long as it's black (quote editted from Ford)
And then your amps.
Belfast is dying in guitars, tbh. But there's a good place out in Bangor or somewhere. Or I think Lisburn, but then again it's Lisburn, you can't find Lisburn, you have to drive around till you somehow end up in it. Or less you'll be heading in that direction and before you know it, you've past it.
-
ok, i have no clue from that diagram unless they've changed it a lot. :lol:
dawson's is meant to be in bangor, but I've never been.
-
That's the guitar section, you know..
Walk in, go left then right, acoustics on the left, drum equip in the middle left then guitars on the right.
How long have you not been in there!?
And yeah, Dawsons. I wanna go there.
-
ah, was that a diagram of matchetts? :lol:
i thought you meant the emporium. that'd explain it. :oops:
-
LOL, the GE is still the same.
-
haha, ok. thanks! :D
-
I have a Gibson Les Paul Custom :twisted: I find its so great because the neck is so comfortable and the tone you get from the HUGE body is unbelievable! Its warm - perfect for jazz, blues, classic rock......metal!
Basically its a great sounding, great looking, and great feeling ( :roll: ) guitar! The ONLY problem is upper fret access.....but then i have a Carvin DC for at the widdly stuff (basically a super strat)
-
Though in past years it was much more evident than it is now, buying a Gibson Les Paul meant that you were doing much more than just buying a guitar, you were investing in a top quality instrument. Of course, guitars players love the stigma that goes along with "Made in America". While most of the time guitars are divided into the Stratocaster and Les Paul camps, there is something just beautiful and eloquent about a Gibson Les Paul. With that being said, that are other great quality instruments out there. PRS, Gretsch, Ibanez, and many others. It's all a matter of taste. I personally love the look of a Gibson Les Paul and that thick, chunky tone!
-
Well, I like SGs and Les Pauls. SGs give you the best upper fret access. And the SG Supreme has a maple cap too...
Mind you, Slash can reach fret 22 on his Les Paul, so it's probably just a matter of persistence...
If you can't get to fret 22, you can't play Money... (which is Dave Gilmour, and he plays a strat, but you get my point. Whatever that was)
-
...its not aactually that hard fretting and bending fret 22 on a les paul - its just hard to shred up above like the 15th fret because your hand is at an awkward angle...
ahh i feel really bad - today i accidently banged the gibson and its got a ding on the neck :evil:
Les pauls look GREAT either brand new (still glossy pristine finish), aged or battered (think Zakk Wylde!)...nowhere in between! (mine is currently at the in between stage with awkward dings showing up of the finish.... :cry: )
-
...its not aactually that hard fretting and bending fret 22 on a les paul - its just hard to shred up above like the 15th fret because your hand is at an awkward angle...
True, but there's still something hugely satisfying about nailing a big clean bend on the 22nd fret of a Les Paul. 8)
As for condition, I think what you say could be levelled at most guitars, although Strats have more acceptable in-between stages of batteredness.
My LP Classic's nickel is all tarnished now. The headstock is scratched from string changes and slightly dinged. The finish is really hard to buff to a glossy sheen now..
In other words, it looks fantastic. :lol:
-
...its not aactually that hard fretting and bending fret 22 on a les paul - its just hard to shred up above like the 15th fret because your hand is at an awkward angle...
agreed. you can hit the upper frets fine on a lp, just it's hitting them at great speed which is difficult. :)
-
LPs are becoming less appealing now, with that fret access now.
:(
-
LPs are becoming less appealing now, with that fret access now. :(
Well to be fair, they've been like that for over 55 years. It's not a new development. :wink:
-
LPs are becoming less appealing now, with that fret access now. :(
Well to be fair, they've been like that for over 55 years. It's not a new development. :wink:
lol, hmm I guess so. well I have yet to try one so maybe it'll be easier for me than I think
-
I dont really see any problems with LP upper fret acess but that might just be cos I'm so used to playing it.. I also never shred so that probably has something to do with it.
-
Buckethead doesn't seem to find upper fret access to be an issue on his LP, and he shreds like a crazy man.
But he does have freaky long alien fingers.. :?
-
Buckethead doesn't seem to find upper fret access to be an issue on his LP, and he shreds like a crazy man.
But he does have freaky long alien fingers.. :?
Well there's nothing to be said there! I probably have the smallest pinky ever.
-
I think its a matter of how much you work on it, Randy Rhoads didn't have the longest fingers, but he could stretch, and go right up the top of his LP, which apparently had a HUGE neck...
-
I think its a matter of how much you work on it
Yes it is. And don't be Slash and think you have to slung the Les Paul to your knees in order to be cool. Play it where it's comfortable. I like the feel and look of single cut guitars and I've got used to reaching the high frets. That said, if I had the dough now, I'd rather invest in a single cut with some kind of "heal-less" design (Feline Lion, Carvin CS) or LP-DC style for the more chop-intensive material. Al di Meola is certainly capable of melting faces on a Les Paul, but even he plays PRS these days.
-
Tastes differ: I never have played a PRS that I liked, all the ones I have played sounded too modern to me. But that is precisely what other people love about PRS. And Fender Custom Shop stuff screws up the vintage details so badly that I have been reduced to building my own Strats to get the little stuff right.
Of course, YMMV.
When I was into shredding, my old Les Paul was my main axe. The upper fret access didn't give me any trouble; I guess I got used to it.
Again, YMMV. Don't let me or anyone else on a message board tell you what guitar you can or cannot play. Solicit others' advice but listen with your own ears.
-
Tastes differ: I never have played a PRS that I liked, all the ones I have played sounded too modern to me.
Again, YMMV. Don't let me or anyone else on a message board tell you what guitar you can or cannot play. Solicit others' advice but listen with your own ears.
EXACTLY!
Also, upper fret access is just summit ya gotta learn to get around (less you have teeny tiny fingers/hands). PRS have a nice rounded heel too.
Oh and talking bout PRS. They now sound VERY vintage if wanted.
New SC245 case in point;
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/126981-1.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/126981-2.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/DSC01508.jpg)
-
...its not aactually that hard fretting and bending fret 22 on a les paul - its just hard to shred up above like the 15th fret because your hand is at an awkward angle...
I've seen Gary Moore string bending so far on the upper register of a Les Paul that it's OBSCENE! Lack of frets never held him back...
Mind you, he does have fingers like a navvy...
-
If I bend the 22nd fret higher than D to F#, the string breaks. This has happened to me so many times it's not even funny.
-
Tastes differ: I never have played a PRS that I liked, all the ones I have played sounded too modern to me.
Again, YMMV. Don't let me or anyone else on a message board tell you what guitar you can or cannot play. Solicit others' advice but listen with your own ears.
EXACTLY!
Also, upper fret access is just summit ya gotta learn to get around (less you have teeny tiny fingers/hands). PRS have a nice rounded heel too.
Oh and talking bout PRS. They now sound VERY vintage if wanted.
New SC245 case in point;
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/126981-1.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/126981-2.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/DSC01508.jpg)
That looks nice but then again it's not that far removed from a real Les Paul, which you can get for considerably less than the cost of a PRS SC245, which I think is around the £1800 mark.
In saying that I'm certainly not knocking the 245. I've no doubt it does a great vintage tone. My point is that for a lot less bucks (Gibson LP Std) is the tone going to be any different - and can the SC245 get that modern PRS tone as well as vintage?
-
unfortunately PRS seem close to Mesa when it comes to pricing in UK :(
SC245 is about same price as Gibson LP Standard here.
As for can it do modern? Not as well as a SC or SC250 but AS well or better than an R series LP!
Of course a LP studio can get vintage'y etc.
But comparing an LP Std. to a PRS SC245 is IMO (and I own both) not in same ballspark. The PRS is WAY better made and finished and indeed DOES have the classic LP sound in spades. NOT knocking a GOOD (read good here) LP Std. BUT the PRS has CARE built into it. Also notice it's heel joint, much easier for higher register playing.
As said, own both and SC245 is new so secondhand is hard (when used LP's are everywhere, just not good ones) so price is a big point, but, all being equal, the PRS is basically what every Gibson should be IMO.
-
I am 6'4" and have hands like a 10 year old girl. Somehow I am able to play the upper registers of a LP. Maybe because I did not know this was not possible when I started doing it.
That some PRS guitars try to look vaguely vintage I agree. To me they look like a modern attempt at vintage but obviously many like them. To me they do not sound vintage at all but that isn't considered desirable by everyone.
Far as Gibsons go - I have not noticed QC improving as you move to more expensive models. I have played cr@ptastic Custom Shop Gibsons and sweet Studios, and encountered defects at all price points. Jimmy Page even played a Studio on stage at times in the 1980's, and I think he could afford a more expensive guitar if he wanted.
-
That looks nice but then again it's not that far removed from a real Les Paul, which you can get for considerably less than the cost of a PRS SC245, which I think is around the £1800 mark.
In saying that I'm certainly not knocking the 245. I've no doubt it does a great vintage tone. My point is that for a lot less bucks (Gibson LP Std) is the tone going to be any different - and can the SC245 get that modern PRS tone as well as vintage?
if you're willing to go with a japanese copy, you can get a "real" les paul for around £450.
But comparing an LP Std. to a PRS SC245 is IMO (and I own both) not in same ballspark. The PRS is WAY better made
i agree, based on the prses and gibsons I've tried (never been able to try a SC. But as you say, pricing is a bit like mesa... kinda daft.
-
Dave,
unlike an amp though 'importing' a guitar is way more sensible. I have even been told/know of dealers who sell new to outside USA (shhhh ;)) and that makes them quite abit cheaper.
-
I would imagine that those kind of dealers would sell more makes than just PRS, making all the guitars quite a bit cheaper - so no real advantage is gained there.
Everyone's tastes vary but I'd have been a lot happier if PRS had at least tried to make it look a little less like an LP copy - in relation to the body.
Gibson QC has improved markedly in recent years, although it was pretty poor that it was allowed to slide in the first place. For £1800 I would certainly haggle a bit in a store and walk out with a Gibson LP Custom over a 245 any day. As a long time Gibson LP player I don't even notice the neck joint anymore.
As I said YMMV though ...
To Dave
I did say 'real' LP .... :wink:
All joking aside I would buy a Loverock as a backup guitar. I havent heard a lot of bad things about them.
The real competition for my attention always comes from the Yamaha SG series. I always get a GAS attack when I see one. Quite why Gibson don't do a guitar in this style I do not know. The Gibson SG is an entirely different beast and the DC's just aren't in the same ballpark.
-
I would imagine that those kind of dealers would sell more makes than just PRS, making all the guitars quite a bit cheaper - so no real advantage is gained there.
Everyone's tastes vary but I'd have been a lot happier if PRS had at least tried to make it look a little less like an LP copy - in relation to the body.
Gibson QC has improved markedly in recent years, although it was pretty poor that it was allowed to slide in the first place. For £1800 I would certainly haggle a bit in a store and walk out with a Gibson LP Custom over a 245 any day. As a long time Gibson LP player I don't even notice the neck joint anymore.
As I said YMMV though ...
To Dave
I did say 'real' LP .... :wink:
All joking aside I would buy a Loverock as a backup guitar. I havent heard a lot of bad things about them.
The real competition for my attention always comes from the Yamaha SG series. I always get a GAS attack when I see one. Quite why Gibson don't do a guitar in this style I do not know. The Gibson SG is an entirely different beast and the DC's just aren't in the same ballpark.
Was answering Dave on the 'cost' issue. Has nought to do with anything else they sell. MANY US manufacturers BAN selling outside the US for fear of taking away dealership.
As for LP Custom. Sure, bout same retail it seems. But owning BOTH an LP and PRS myself, I know which I would take. Apart from the looooooooooong search to find a 'good' LP I find the 'whole' PRS guitar more satisfying.
As for copy, maybe it's because it's such a popular/iconic shape? Just like Strats. ALL guitar companies/lutheirs are in the game to 'make money' therefore making what sells. Why not make a strat/LP shape? Gibson found to their cost that shape of body is not the issue, it's headstock.
Again, YMMV but I have yet to find ANY PRS (se or USA) that was'nt finished and played perfectly, more than can be said for Gibson (although again, NOT anti, I OWN two Gibsons!).
Maybe the Danes will sort Gibson out! Here's hoping.
-
I'm not being anti PRS but for the life of me I can't understand why an established company who has established such a good reputation chose to copy a rival company's design.
I know about the single cut lawsuit but I'm not talking about that. I mean with all the knowledge and ability PRS have at their disposal they decide to basically stick on a LP body.
I'll bet their designers were gnashing their teeth at that decision.
-
Is'nt this the same as why do XYZ copy strats?
I would assume PRS had the demand so decided to do it. Anyway, I dearly WISH Gibson would make such a consistant product, thats all.
-
Is'nt this the same as why do XYZ copy strats?
Yes. Yes it is. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
This is PRS we're talking about ... not just an XYZ company
-
I'm not being anti PRS but for the life of me I can't understand why an established company who has established such a good reputation chose to copy a rival company's design.
I know about the single cut lawsuit but I'm not talking about that. I mean with all the knowledge and ability PRS have at their disposal they decide to basically stick on a LP body.
I think in a way it's a compliment to what a great design the LP is.
They've refined the details and added typical PRS touches like the scooped cutaway and PRS hardware, but that basic "hourglass" guitar shape is a nice comfortable one. And if you want a shorter, stiffer neck you end up with a single cutaway. If you move the design much further away it's just being different for the sake of it (like that silly Washburn Paul Stanley model).
The only aspect which I think gets a bit too close to "copy" territory is the two volume/two tone layout and the location of the switch. I prefer the simpler control layout on the Singlecut Trem.
-
Ahhh c'mon.
PRS are'nt any bigger really than ESP/Navigator, or Charvel (pre fender) or B.C.Rich (in heyday) or Ernie Ball etc. etc. etc. They all make VERY similar 'shaped' products.
Heck MANY Custom Luthiers make 'known' shape guitars (Feline for one) and they are up there with PRS.
It's down to market force. If a design (any design) can be improved upon, why not? (esp. if said design is not copyrighted).
-
I'm not being anti PRS but for the life of me I can't understand why an established company who has established such a good reputation chose to copy a rival company's design.
I know about the single cut lawsuit but I'm not talking about that. I mean with all the knowledge and ability PRS have at their disposal they decide to basically stick on a LP body.
I think in a way it's a compliment to what a great design the LP is.
They've refined the details and added typical PRS touches like the scooped cutaway and PRS hardware, but that basic "hourglass" guitar shape is a nice comfortable one. And if you want a shorter, stiffer neck you end up with a single cutaway. If you move the design much further away it's just being different for the sake of it (like that silly Washburn Paul Stanley model).
The only aspect which I think gets a bit too close to "copy" territory is the two volume/two tone layout and the location of the switch. I prefer the simpler control layout on the Singlecut Trem.
Singlecut trem is now no more Philly :(
But there is a MUCH bigger difference IMO. Look at the neck angle meeting the body, AND the string angle at the headstock. Very different. May not JUMP out at casual shopper looking BUT is HUGE difference.
-
Dave,
unlike an amp though 'importing' a guitar is way more sensible. I have even been told/know of dealers who sell new to outside USA (shhhh ;)) and that makes them quite abit cheaper.
interesting, i thought most of the US dealers weren't allowed to do that... :lol:
To Dave
I did say 'real' LP .... :wink:
All joking aside I would buy a Loverock as a backup guitar. I havent heard a lot of bad things about them.
yeah MIJ tokais are pretty nice, any i've tried anyway.
-
I'm not being anti PRS but for the life of me I can't understand why an established company who has established such a good reputation chose to copy a rival company's design.
I know about the single cut lawsuit but I'm not talking about that. I mean with all the knowledge and ability PRS have at their disposal they decide to basically stick on a LP body.
I'll bet their designers were gnashing their teeth at that decision.
I THINK its because they started out that way and people started playing them, it often works like that and once it hits the players it cant be turned back i guess.
Thats also why Gibson and Fender went bottom up IMO, things change but the players still expect the same product even if it costs twice as much to make it.