Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: _tom_ on January 12, 2008, 08:00:45 PM
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Ok so its pretty obvious you cant get a good cranked overdrive sound at low volumes, but are there any amps that do a really good clean at low volumes? I was thinking if I could find a practise amp that does good cleans then I could just add pedals for my overdrive/distortion/fuzz needs, making there no need for power tube distortion. Was looking at Fender Champ 600s but I dont see the 6" speaker giving a very warm, full tone..
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ENGL Screamer? Not exactly a small practice amp I suppose... it just does EVERYTHING though. I've just come from a practice session at my mate's house, and even at "we must not disturb my parents" volume it sounded great on clean and distortion.
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I shouldve also mentioned I dont want anything really big/expensive :lol: Something £100-200 would be ideal, or less if going used.
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Haha!
In that case....
I'm clueless. :lol:
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Roland JC120 anyone? Just might fit the price range if you buy used. Awesome clean...
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JC120 would be a bit big for me I think. The Peavey Royal 8 sounds pretty good here - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IEu0NzSZ7RE
Probably a bit louder than the Champ due to the 8" speaker.
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Why not plug the Champion into your cab? I stick it in my 2x12 - low volume, proper tone. The Champ is very Fender - and I seem to remember you don't like the Fender sound.
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Also the Fender blows the Peavey away - not a lot of difference between the 6 and the 8 but the 6v6 tubes adds so much more.
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I see, cheers :) I do like some fender sounds, I'm sure Hendrix used a Bassman for Little Wing didnt he? Thats one of my favourite clean tones :) Guessing that comes under one of the more "rock" fender amps though, not sure what the Champion comes under.
Trouble with using the 2x12 with it is that its at home and I'm at uni. Guess I could always splash out and get a decent 1x12 to use here though?
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check my other thread _tom_. The new Fender Vibro/Super Champ XD amps might be just what you need.
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Oo cheers. The 5w Vibro Champ is interesting :) Will have to see if my local shop at home sells those, they sell most other fender stuff.
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Matamp Little Rock or Minimat :)
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Cant say I've heard many clips of the Matamps that would make me want to buy one. They're also quite expensive and I'd need another cab to go with it.
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+1 on sticking a cab into an XD, wanting to get one also, probably the super champ though.
If i cant fit a 12" in it ill probably hack off its head and only use that on a 4x12 :evil:
Im kindoff GASsing for Fender clean for a long time, decent effects added in the package, cant go wrong there IMO.
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Looking at the amps I've been through, it's two EL84 equipped amps that do real nice cleans at low volume: Budda Superdrive and Tiny Terror.
For the TT, the killer setting is Master and Tone at Max, set gain to taste for the volume (e.g. 8 AM).
Probably a Fender Champ is also a really good choice, or any 18W Marshall design.
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Reconsidering, actually, I would suggest a ceriatone amp for your budget.
Like this one for 280$ all incl:
(http://www.ceriatone.com/images/completeAmpsPic/VibroChampAmp/DSCN2343B.jpg)
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By low volume, I mean like just above typical tv volume. Would've thought Marshall 18w would be too loud. What wattage is that ceriatone? Sound Control here dont seem to have that Vibro Champ XD (or the Champ 600), hopefully the shop at home do.
btw, will a good od pedal into a good clean amp actually get good overdrive sounds or will it sound just as bad as low volume valve overdrive (attenuators etc)?
edit - found a good video of the Champ 600 with a pedal in front, it sounds great when he turns down the gain on it and then turns off the pedal, really nice clean http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt6AaKVFn4
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This could also be interesting. It´s not all that different from a Champ 600.
The Gretsch G5222 Electromatic Amp.
http://www.gretschguitars.com/gear/index.php?product=G5222
(http://www.gretschguitars.com/repository/gretsch/images/G5222_md.jpg)
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I think it IS a champ 600 with Gretsch badging - Gretsch is in the Fender group of companies after all.
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The Fender Champ 600 is what I recommend, it's a very warm sound I find. I haven't even modded mine, and I find it perfect for clean sounds!
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But do change the 12AX7 - the 6V6 is an electro harmonix, so its quite a good valve - the 12Ax7 is a cheap Chinese tube. A 5751 is perfect if you can get one.
If you want to use a distortion pedal - Its ok if you turn the volume down to about 4-5 as the speaker can't handle distortion at louder volumes.
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Try picking up a s/h nano and cheap 1 X 12. The Nano will do very low vol cleans producing a gorgeous voxy/chimey tone.
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By low volume, I mean like just above typical tv volume. Would've thought Marshall 18w would be too loud. What wattage is that ceriatone? Sound Control here dont seem to have that Vibro Champ XD (or the Champ 600), hopefully the shop at home do.
btw, will a good od pedal into a good clean amp actually get good overdrive sounds or will it sound just as bad as low volume valve overdrive (attenuators etc)?
edit - found a good video of the Champ 600 with a pedal in front, it sounds great when he turns down the gain on it and then turns off the pedal, really nice clean http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt6AaKVFn4
It looks like the ceriatone champ version, check ceriatone,com for more info.
I personally, now using the blackstart HT-dist think tube od pedals work best on clean amps and the usual analog stomboxes work better on an allready dirty tube amp. Messing with the preamp stage of a tube amp can get you the cranked tube saturation and dynamics but its quite difficult to get just right. Some guitarist i know, including myself, have elevated pestering tube preamps to an artform :lol:
I am wondering what your main amp is actually, i seem to remember you had a Laney with 2x12 cab? I can understand you would like to add a fenderish clean amp, however why dont you play the laney if you want gain sounds. Ive played the champ 600 but i cant imagine anyone preferring it for anything other then some clean ultra thin sounds, like country and western or something like that, or as a portable compromise for hollydays and such.
Obviously i can get a much better overdriven sound on the clean channel of my JCM800 with the use of a stompbox then i would get out of a 6 watter or even 15 watter. Its a simple equation, big preamp with lots of tubes = lots of gain. Now you can pile od pedals onto the little champ but youll just overflow the power stage and it will clip, which is fun but hardly very usefull. Kind off self evident that high gain guitarists use high wattage amps.....
In the clip you put up, the champ definately does not sound stock, it sounds like its wired to a cab at least. The tiny speaker cant ever put out that much lowend.
You can expect this sound from it, offcourse you can tweak it a bit but basically this is it:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9jlPGYSJDn4&feature=related
I also found a decent demo from the super champ XD, if you keep listening youll hear the amp clipping at higher gain stages and allmost overloading the power tubes, which reders an amp totally useless ("the WHAT did the little piggy say?" sensation). Check out the cleans though....... :wink:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGMTrL0pGg
Now ok, my opinion on the greatest versatility range from great cleans to hard drive is, take a good amp with about 50 watts powerstage at a clean setting or channel and take a blackstar HT to use as a preamp stage. The voicing on the blackstar HT-dist (isf) are mindblowing, there is just no end to all the sounds you can get and you poweramp has enough headroom to make it happen, even at low volumes. It would not recomment a too bright amp, nor would i recomend the HT-distx, either would be too much i think. When you set the isf knob to the USA side there are alot of clean fendery sounds there, flip towards the UK side and hello Marshall, just too good man!. Quite bright though.....
Exeption though is clipping an amp deliberately to get that chunky ballsy bottom end sound. Ive used this alot in live situation, still with a very large amp though, great but very very poorly at lower volumes because it simply does not work then, well unless you have a smaller amp obviously, but ok, you will be pretty much playing one sound all the time that way.
Ok, ill leave it at this for now, its pretty complex stuff really, or at least i think so.
Adding to this, i only need a small practice amp for when i go on hollidays and dont want to risk taking my large rig abroad, if im home the king and queen rule again :lol:
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Cheers for the long post :D The reason I'm after a low volume amp is that I'm at uni, and the Laney is just too big to bring over here, I'll never get a good tone out of it and itd be a pain in the arse to bring back and forth (plus theres not loads of space in my room anyway). I thought a TT set to clean plus a 1x12 with a valve pedal might work? Fairly expensive though. Also found that Coda Music are selling a Cornford Harlequin for £399 or something which is very cheap for cornford I think, probably too loud for uni but it seems like a really good deal :P
That super champ sounds pretty good to me, I didnt mind the first overdrive tone he did either. Waiting for the rest of the tones now :)
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Sorry m8, but any amp will be too loud in an uni room, i had the same when i was at uni and just played trough a multieffect.
For playing in your room i would suggest to look into a Line6 toneport GX, they are like 50 pounds or so and very much fun to noodle around with. Using any amp in your room would be pissing off your neighbours eventually, maybe there is a room at uni you could use for playing an amp, or just wait till you get home?
It was very hard not to play in my room though, however the new pc software they have nowadays is wayyyy better then a cr@ppy multieffect.
If your unhappy with your Laney, why not trade that in and get some decent tonemonster? Or at least i think when money is an issue i would concentrate on 1 good amp and 1 good guitar and compromise the rest if at all possible.
The Blackstar also has a speaker emulated lineout by the way, ill try how that sounds trough my toneport set at clean recording, will probably not be today though. And yes you can use any stombox with a toneport.
Ill add a couple of links for ya to check out:
http://www.blackstaramps.co.uk/
http://line6.com/toneportgx/
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At uni you'll prob be in halls which are thin walled + small rooms but its much more fun to be in halls.
I used an effects pedals and studio speakers or a solid state amp which was ok but now there are better options. For example, If you have a computer id either get a plug in effects (guitar rig, line 6 guitar port etc) or +1 for the new fender champs and the Vox ADXXVT series. They sound better then the solid state and very valve like at low volumes.
Both would do clean well. You can always add a pedal for distortions sounds you prefer.
Are you planning on playing in a band? Lots of bands and band clubs at my old uni. In that case investing in an amp that can sound ok quiet and loud as a compromise may be better?
The vox do 30,50 and higher watt amps. They have attenutators built in and are valve/solid state mix like the Fenders so will sound good at low volumes and can be used in a band. They arent massive either and very cheap!
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I am in halls, my room isnt actually bad as I'm on the ground floor, next to another guitarist anyway and on the room at the end next to the kitchen, so I havent got too many people to annoy if I play a bit too loud. I'm using either my V-Amp 2 or Amplitube 2 at the minute but right now I'm sick of modelling, its so boring and has a horrible feel compared to a proper amp.
Yea was looking at the Valvetronix series. I'm still trying to find some people to play with, most people want to play modern metal stuff but I'd rather play rock :(
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I disagree that the champ 600 is only good for thin country and western sounds - its not british clean for sure - i'd say it has a Fender Deluxe type clean tone (you can easily disable the fixed tone stack by removing a resistor) - but with a Powerscreamer type pedal you can make it sound quite big and gritty and if you do the opposite of most people on this forum and turn the gain down (I know perish the thought) you can get some great screaming class A valve amp sounds out of it.
If I was at university it would be one of the Champ 600 or the Champ XD series - which unlike the Vox AD series are real valve power amps with a DSP front end (the Vox has a 'gimmick' valve that colours the sound but doesn't perform as a valve amp). Even those would probably be too loud for non private accommodation, so a pocket Pod and good monitor speakers may be a good cheap option.
I certainly wouldn't spend more that £150 - I know we are GAS heads here but University halls are no place for expensive kit.
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Check out this handwired cheap as hell and looking sweeeeet BLACKHEART 5/3 watt amp, very niceeeeee!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kiw1WOMlK0I
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but where do you buy this blackhearts
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I was also going to suggest a nanohead, though it would mean having a cab of some sort (I tend to run mine through the speaker of my Blues Jr combo). I picked up a mint Nano (custom colour) for £210
It can certainly do Vox & Fender cleans @ (loud) TV volumes (and above through a 1x12). Turning it up gives you a plexi. You can also run it through an attenuator (I seem to remember that you have / had one) to keep the volume down (yes they can be that loud)
I still havn't tried the Champ 600, but from most accounts theyre pretty damned good for the price, though others seem to expect an awful lot from them.
As you are tired of digital I won't suggest anything in that vein.
I would suggest looking at http://www.ampmaker.com/index.asp (though they are closed due to illness ATM) as their SE-5a looks pretty close to what you are interested in. Though please remember that 5 watts can be pretty bloody loud.
I would also say that since you are in halls and using a laptop that something alongs the lines of a Kensington security lock as a bloody good idea. The first thing I did with my Nanohead was to cut a slot in the casing so I could use a notebook lock on it.
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but where do you buy this blackhearts
I have to pick one up in germany if i want to test it first, but its not far, same with the fender champ im afraid. However if you dont mind ordering stuff, any crate dealer can order it for you. At 110-120 pounds it cant be that risky since it is new and comes with guarantee.
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Sponge, warm water and mild detergent?
Sorry, couldnt resist
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They sell Blackheart in Sound Control, well theres one in the Leicester one anyway. Might have a go some time but most of the clips of them that I've heard arent amazing (though that youtube one wasnt bad).. I wanted a Zvex nano as I've heard loads of good stuff about them but theyre so expensive most of the time.
I was gonna get an ampmaker se5 to have a go at building over the summer but am not amazing with electronics (can wire up a guitar or a pcb fine but thats as far as I've got) and will either end up with a broken amp, or dead :lol:
edit - the orange micro crush sounds allright and it looks cool :P http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GIfOSAil5Bs
Speaking of which, are the Orange Crush amps any good?
Sponge, warm water and mild detergent?
Sorry, couldnt resist
:lol: :lol:
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I am in halls, my room isnt actually bad as I'm on the ground floor, next to another guitarist anyway and on the room at the end next to the kitchen, so I havent got too many people to annoy if I play a bit too loud. I'm using either my V-Amp 2 or Amplitube 2 at the minute but right now I'm sick of modelling, its so boring and has a horrible feel compared to a proper amp.
Yea was looking at the Valvetronix series. I'm still trying to find some people to play with, most people want to play modern metal stuff but I'd rather play rock :(
If you hate modelling you should never go with the Valvetronix or the DSP modelling fenders, maybe it will be an improvement over playing trough a PC but it wont be like what youre thinking off.
After many year of trying and testing loads of gear i now only use a good and versatile tube amp and ditto drive pedal. Actually the simpeler it gets the better it sounds, to my ears at least.
If i were you i would definately save up for one of those 'legends' like the Twin, Pro reverb, Bluesbreaker, Plexi or JCM800 or whatever and just never look back again. If in doubt just take you guitar and noodle a bit on one in a shop to generate some preferences but stick to a plan.
If your really, desperately in need, discuss it with your parents, i did and i managed to get some basic band stuff together(actually the peavey combo i bought with the loan was the best amp i ever heard back then :oops: , i played it VERY much for 10 years and if it didnt fell apart i would probably still have it) and payed back the small loan i got from my parents bit by bit. Actually my father did encourage the idea of buying something good and in this way being able to grow as a musician rather then buying a huge collection of mediocer/cr@p stuff that didnt keep me at it anyway. Trading in the Laney will get you started anyway so it wont be that horrible i think.
Hope youll think about this, every amp i play now just fades in the shadow of my main amp, but i learned back then to save up and i could buy it when it smacked me in the face, i rocked with my head in the clouds for allmost a year after i got my JCM800 with late 60's Marshall cab i can tell ya 8)
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hm yeah good point. I remember playing a Fender Stage 1600 which has the same modelling as the XD series (I think?) and I didnt really think it was that bad.
I dont really want to get rid of the Laney, theres nothing wrong with it when I can use it at home but those volumes are just tolerated by my family, at uni itd probably just piss everyone off because it sounds cr@p at tv volumes :P
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How about getting your GH50L power scaled? Should cost around £150 and it'll make your gigging volume sound better as well won't it?
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How about getting your GH50L power scaled? Should cost around £150 and it'll make your gigging volume sound better as well won't it?
Now thats a good idea!
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...... and I didnt really think it was that bad.
No it doesnt sound too bad, at least not totally offputting....
But thats not what im talking about, im talking about plugging in and forgetting everything because your in tone friggin heaven......
I play my JCM at TV volume at which i can get a good clean (thinner than at high volume settings but still has all its tone) and a pretty good bluesy/dirty drive sound. For a better gain saturation i use a drive pedal or booster or compressor/sutainer depending on what i need.
Actually the pedals dont matter that much, most comes from the guitar i use and the amp itself, eliminating all that is redundant i end up with needing a good guitar, a very well voiced cab(a cab can sound good, but still cant speak your language musically) and THE amp head, not thinking about all its properties but only about its clean
TONE!!!!
The tone color should fit your personality IMO. Just listen to what the damn rig is telling you and youll be able to let it sing for you with a quick setup.
Anyway, this is how i think about it, i do think the Laney can be made to sound much better then a small practice amp for your playing offcourse. Still, i would be very interested to hear how stoner rock trough the little champ would sound :lol:
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haha yeah I was just thinking that, itd definitely not put out enough bass. I would just go with a Pod XT or something but theres no feel to the things, its horrible to play imo.
I guess I could get the Laney power scaled and then get a 1x12 of some kind to have at uni, though when I had a hotplate with the Laney it wasnt amazing, not sure how much better power scaling is meant to be? Havent actually tried running the Laney clean for ages, maybe that with a booster/valve od pedal will be allright. I'll try that when I go back home next anyway to see how it does, if not something lower wattage would be required.
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It will be allright, just different, and it will take some time to predict the amps response to your setting it up, just dont give up.
And anyway, youll need to be able to crack it for that band your going to form, at least it would be a shame if you wouldnt get a band together i think.
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Yeah I really want to find some people into the same stuff, I probably would allready be in a band if I was into the whole modern technical metal thing, but I'm really not :?
To be honest, I would love a good JCM800 or even a good 900 but it seems to be hard to get the "good" ones and they're really expensive. Nothing wrong with the Laney tone but it doesnt quite have that Marshall upper-mid bite that I love.
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Yeah I really want to find some people into the same stuff, I probably would allready be in a band if I was into the whole modern technical metal thing, but I'm really not :?
To be honest, I would love a good JCM800 or even a good 900 but it seems to be hard to get the "good" ones and they're really expensive. Nothing wrong with the Laney tone but it doesnt quite have that Marshall upper-mid bite that I love.
Actually, allmost all good band i played in ended up playing totally different stuff then agreed upon in the beginning, if you think the prog metal is not your thing, just start out playing the rythm section, i always enjoyed the artistic freedom of that position in a band (if you get my drift :twisted: )
I literally bumped in to my JCM with the old marshall cab when it had just been traded in at the store, managed to check it out again within the hour which got me a nice deal since it didnt have to go trough the books.
Just keep looking and it will pop up soon enough, or just ask a couple of bigger stores, they usually have contacts with musicians who have tons of everything needing a new owner sooner or later anyway. Kind of anoying to know there are musicians who just buy multiple amps just to pick the best one and keep one as backup anyway......
Some JCM800 heads are quite expensive, but not more then a new marshall at least. The combos are dirt cheap usually though and are usually stock which is not the case with heads. Ill bet youll be able to get your hands on a good one for the trade of your laney head and a couple of hundred quid. If you dont like it as a combo, you can buy a replacement cabinet to put the amp in and your done :wink:
Or well, just thinking out loud i guess....
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Buy a clone, buy a clone, buy a clone........
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The pre-built Ceriatone '800 2203 clone is only about £425 + postage and any customs charges, and the 2204 £345 + postage and customs. Whats the difference between 2204 and 2203? Theres also the JTM45s, Plexis and 18ws to choose from.
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Reconsidering what i wrote, i dont want to be pushy Tom, i just think its a shame to buy something you arent 100% convinced about its da bomb(or whatever you prefer to call it)......
Buy a clone, buy a clone, buy a clone........
So now its three of everything TF ??????? :lol:
Your gear has to break down often if you need that many as backups, so they cant be any good can they :P
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Reconsidering what i wrote, i dont want to be pushy Tom, i just think its a shame to buy something you arent 100% convinced about its da bomb(or whatever you prefer to call it)......
Buy a clone, buy a clone, buy a clone........
So now its three of everything TF ??????? :lol:
Your gear has to break down often if you need that many as backups, so they cant be any good can they :P
Yeah, I really need to try out a load of stuff but its so hard when shops dont have anything good :lol: I remember playing Tims JCM800ZW at low volume at Music Live a few years ago and even at that quiet level it sounded pretty good to me.
Funny how all my threads on here seem to make me want the total opposite of what I originally asked for - started out as a low volume clean amp and now I want a JCM800 or something :lol: I also really liked the Fender Supersonic head when I heard it live a while ago, it sounded huge through the matching 4x12, even with a strat.
Either way, I wont sell the GH because it sounds great when you get to crank it, like I said just missing out a bit of that upper mid roar but thats probably me just being picky.
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I seem to remember that the postage for a complete head with case was about $150. You can pay $15 to get master vol installed.
I've been asking Nik about installing power scaling and he says he's planning to install them into his amps in the future. I'd watch this space :twisted:
EDIT: Henk, what JCM800 do you have by the way?
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The pre-built Ceriatone '800 2203 clone is only about £425 + postage and any customs charges, and the 2204 £345 + postage and customs. Whats the difference between 2204 and 2203? Theres also the JTM45s, Plexis and 18ws to choose from.
The 2203 is the super lead 100w 'holy grail' jcm800, the 2204 is the 50w version. The 2205 i have has 2 channels and has reverb, its the more versatile and expensive version, ist a 50watter though, compared to a 100watt beast i think its a bit tuned down, not as high gain and a bit darker then the 100w versions IMO.
The MKII JCM/Plexis have the best tone IMO, allthough the jcm's can get close there is always the EL34 nastyness coming trough. Basically the older ones have better clean tone and the newer ones better drive IMO, at least if your more into the vintage rock kind of drive and not the slayer kind of drive the 2203 has. Then again, you will need a master volume if you want to use the amps gain at lower volumes, so that kind of limits the selection i guess, well unless you can pick one up with a master volume mod allready done to it. Saw one on ebay a month ago or so which went for about 250 pounds or so, a MKII master modded, need to run into a deal like that too........
The 18watters have great tone and great drive, but dont sound as big as their big bro's IMO. Or well, better said small tube amps just sound fundamentally different then the biG pHat ones.
The type of tone i still want to get someday is in the old bassman design range though, so if i dont end up with a plexi it will be a bassman head. Just huge headroom and allmost perfectly balanced and neutral cleans, the purists wet dream :lol: .
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The pre-built Ceriatone '800 2203 clone is only about £425 + postage and any customs charges, and the 2204 £345 + postage and customs. Whats the difference between 2204 and 2203? Theres also the JTM45s, Plexis and 18ws to choose from.
2204 = 50w
2203 = 100w
You should have checked out my Marshall thread Tom ;)
Marshall Amp Summary (http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10484)
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Is the 2205 what Schenker used a lot of the time? His tone is amazing on Rock Bottom on the Strangers in the Night live cd :D If you go on here then listen to the 1987 Les Paul heavy clip, that is my ideal tone http://www.proguitar.de/AudioDemo/CompareAmps/CompareAmps.html
I've heard nice tones from Bassmans (bassmen?) as well, if I remember correctly Social Distortion use them a lot and I really like their tone.
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I also really liked the Fender Supersonic head when I heard it live a while ago, it sounded huge through the matching 4x12, even with a strat.
Ow yeah, that one sound very nice. Ive had a Fender Dual showman redknob head and 4x12 cab from the late 80's which i sold not too long ago at a big loss :cry: . It sounded great and i could flip it from 100w to 25w (which only made a tiny difference when i kept using the 4x12 though).
Great tone and everything, but just not for me or well i prefer my JCM, also im used to the Marshall 'hum' and the Fender 'hiss' was really putting me off too, kind of silly i know but anyway.
Fender does have a very different character tonewise though, i like it when its more of the transparent headroomy kind of tone(100 watters), but some Fenders are just plain shallow sounding IMO. The big fender heads do have a pretty nice and mellow fizzy kind of drive which is pretty usefull to break up the cleanness of it, but downright awfull to play it as a dirty amp IMO. Few exeptions though like the pro sonic and the supersonic offcourse.
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Yep I had a Hot Rod deluxe and it was an allright clean amp, but the drive was horrible. I liked it at first but then once I got over that "honeymoon period" I hated it.
http://www.fender.com/products/supersonic/
Listen to "plays itself 2" and the Bassman clips on the sounds, it sounds so good :D Vibrolux sounds way too thin, probably good for Knopfler style cleans though I guess if you're into that.
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the Supersonic is awesome - if only I was richer and a better player I would get one pronto....
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Is the 2205 what Schenker used a lot of the time? His tone is amazing on Rock Bottom on the Strangers in the Night live cd :D If you go on here then listen to the 1987 Les Paul heavy clip, that is my ideal tone http://www.proguitar.de/AudioDemo/CompareAmps/CompareAmps.html
I've heard nice tones from Bassmans (bassmen?) as well, if I remember correctly Social Distortion use them a lot and I really like their tone.
:lol:
A shopkeeper i know is always on about i need to buy his schenker custom V from the 80's, now i know why, but yes my rig has a high schenker content, allthough im not a big fan or anything....
That clip is exactly what my 'dirty' amp channel sounds like when i put it trough my greenback loaded 70's London city cab, this being more my rythm tone. You can get hundreds of tones like these though with different pedals and settings. My old marshall cab sounds better though.... :)
Im offcourse not surpriced that you picked the greenbacked Marshall sound, it just cant be beat! ever!!!!! :wink: :lol: (im kidding offcourse)
The Bassman Baltimore clip on the supersonic sounds great, transparent, headroom, sexey!
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If I had bigger house and no neighbours would get another prosonic......Ceriatone..how much fully built and where from?
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The supersonic wont be cheaper then a clone i think, its 699 pounds at music street UK, and with a whopping 5!!!! x 12ax7 (like a jcm800) its a friggin monster.....
http://www.musicstreet.co.uk/fendersupersonic60wheadblackpepper-p-1527.html?osCsid=606d8a9850f9e2394d5fb664b0aeee50
You still need a 4x12 greenback loaded cab though :lol: (sorry, cant help myself)
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Hush, Henk! You with your Greenback ways! :D
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OKOK, ill leave it for now at least...... :P
You guys will remember what i said though, and the next time you listen to that RAW marshall tone, you know its the the greenbacks talking!
LazyNinja: sorry didnt see the edit at first but i allready answered your question, its a 2205 which is the 50w two seperate channel one with reverb.
I said earlier that the 100w jcm800's have more gain but that appears not to be true, a preamp will distort two powertubes more(and it will break up at lower volumes) than four of them. Still the 100's do have a more powerfull/cutting tone IMO.
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Yeah I noticed it in the other post anyways no worries. I have a 2210 but thinking of selling it. What year is yours? Early ones and later ones of the split channel models are quite different. Pull out V2 and if clean still works then you have an early one. If it doesn't it's one of the later ones. :)
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Dont need to pull out a valve offcourse(really stupid to suggest such a thing), its a T S/N so its from 1985. Its still basically an upgraded 2204, and no it does not have the 'bleed' flaw the 2210 design had in the earlier version. The filtering and power supply structure was changed in '86 i think, the 2205 design was changed after the 2210.
Anyway, this one sounds pretty good to me, would like to have other tubes then the EL34's in it some time, still this one is still stock which makes me hesitate to alter it. For what its worth i dont believe anything written about these marshalls, i have heard better tones coming from a JCM900 HG dual rev after a point to point mod(i think it was called that), so nothing lost. If you have a later 2210 with a cheaper OT(main difference IMO) and such, just replace them with a better one, small cost, big tone!
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I tried out a 900 dual reverb a while ago, I honestly dont see why they ever get bad rep, it sounded great. Ok so it was shite through the Marshall cab, but through my G12H cab it was awesome, I even liked the clean channel.
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Thats what its about i guess, listen and develop your hearing. Alot is said about the post JCM 2203/2204 production JCM's. I dont really agree with the 'they s@ck because they have no 100% valve cirquits'. There are some good mods made to the late JCM800's and the 900's, offcourse some cost reduction modifications, like the cheap OT, are a shame but can bet corrected IMO. If i remember correctly the modded JCM900 i was talking about had all non tube cirquits replaced with old JMP spec cirquits, greatly improving (clean) tone. Again getting to the bare truth of the matter i think earlier JCM's do have a better clean sound but when you play a RAW distorted kind of sound the later ones are AS good or even better IMVHO.
The only real problem i have with the stock JCM900's(and modern JCM's) is that the cranked sound of it is rather dissapointing IMO, ive heard most of this is due to the cheap OT, so that would be a 'must' to replace if i would get one.
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Dont need to pull out a valve offcourse(really stupid to suggest such a thing), its a T S/N so its from 1985. Its still basically an upgraded 2204, and no it does not have the 'bleed' flaw the 2210 design had in the earlier version. The filtering and power supply structure was changed in '86 i think, the 2205 design was changed after the 2210.
No, it's not a stupid suggestion it's just a sure way of telling which version you have without opening the amp up. It's not very clear when Marshall changed the spec as I've heard of some people with their '84 models with the later spec whilst some with their '86 with earlier spec. I've looked around the net about this amp when I bought it and it seems that none of the 2210 models, early or later are free of the bleed problem. It's just less obvious on the later ones. Apparently, it's to do with the channel switching mechanism which uses transistors.
Early ones - boost bleeds into normal
Later ones - normal bleeds into boost
Now, I know the later 2205s have the same bleed characteristic as the later 2210s (I know because I used to have one). I'm not sure about the early 2205s. I thought they were similar to the early 2210s but from what you say it might not be the same.
A lot of people with later versions pull the v2 out permanently to disable the normal channel for good to prevent the bleeding completely.
Anyway, this one sounds pretty good to me, would like to have other tubes then the EL34's in it some time, still this one is still stock which makes me hesitate to alter it. For what its worth i dont believe anything written about these marshalls, i have heard better tones coming from a JCM900 HG dual rev after a point to point mod(i think it was called that), so nothing lost.
Sorry I didn't follow you there. But if you meant that 2205/2210s have bad rep but you don't agree with them, I agree with you. I think they sound great :) EDIT:I was saying I wanted to sell mine because I want a more vintage voiced Marshall.
If you have a later 2210 with a cheaper OT(main difference IMO) and such, just replace them with a better one, small cost, big tone!
Is this true? I had no idea that the later ones had cheap transformers. They are huge.
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Well actually a 2 channel/one master amp does bleed when the switching is bad, ive heard that alot op early 2205 had their switching diodes(?) changed and some resistors to prevent bleeding, never had any bleed issues but ill check it out again when cranked. It could also be a dodgy channel switch though, at least i think.
Ive found that the 2205 and 2210 schematics were officially changed in 1988, i have read here that there also have been cost reducing alterations in 1985(they changed the 2203 in '86, sorry for the mixup) on the 100w models.
However, during circa 1985, the design of the 100 watt JCM 800 series changed in order to cut costs.
The circa late-1986 2203's, to reduce costs further, incorporated reduced power supply requirements and specifications and was able to eliminate one "pair" of the series-run caps, reducing the number to three filter caps total.
Source: http://www.legendarytones.com/marshallshoppers2.html
If i look at the transformers(not only the OT, the only thing i can see on the outside is that the smallest in the earlier versions is the same silver color and in the later versions is a bit more copper color. Mine also has a label saying T100 on it and the later ones dont have that. I do think most differences would be on the inside though....
I think all transformers were originally drake transformers, but mine have different labels then the later ones, later ones have date stamps on the label.
PS. Try 6550 tubes, theyll sound much more vintage marshall.
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I played a Sessionette 75 watt MOSFET amp when I was in halls last year. I never played it very loud but so long as it's the afternoon nobody will complain really at university.
You're not the only person who will be noisy. There'll be musicians with more traditional instruments who can't control volume when they practice and people who insist on blasting their music 24/7. I did find that the walls were better soundproofed than I expected, you might want to experiment and see the volume you have to reach before people can hear you outside the room, and then how loud you can go before it becomes objectionable. One instrument that this doesn't apply to is normal acoustic drums. They will not survive in a university environment as I have seen first-hand.
I never had anybody complain about the volume of my guitar, on the contrary, I got a few people who were interested in learning. Even better, when I was staying with my ex-girlfriend in Cardiff University's halls for a week having bought a *deep breath* Squier Master Series Chambered Mahogany Telecaster I borrowed an amp from a friend of her's to keep myself busy during the day time and as a result met some guitarists to hang out with who overheard my playing and knocked on the window.
I'm staying in a house this year where I've converted the basement from "dark-hellish-tip" to a carpeted, lit practice room (a friend I live with has an electric drum kit with a special amp for it down there too). In my room I have an Epiphone Valve Junior amp that cost me £120. It gives very good cleans. I've also made a lightbulb attenuator for it so I can get it into crunch at a lower volume.
Sorry if there are lots of typos etc. in the above, I did it on my girlfriend's macbook pro and it has an annoying keyboard.
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Lightbulb attenuator?
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It's basically a jack socket soldered to two lightbulbs in parallel soldered to another jack socket with a bypass switch. It goes between the speaker out of the amp and the speaker. The lighbulbs have a variable resistance depending on how much current is running through them so they act a bit like a compressor. Also, the lightbulbs light and flash in time with your playing. Quite fun.
EDIT: I should add that they're little lightbulbs, 7 volt I think.
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Ohh man i just hate this, but anyway i ended up taking my amp apart last night just to find out how and what.
It seems they changed the switching (and some other stuff i cant figure out) judging from the schematics and the soldering. It seems like they put the switching in the beginning of the schematic and relayed the clean channel instead of the other way around.
The only thing i can hear is the gain channel set at low volume getting the hotter power stage from a cranked clean channel when the gain channel is set very low. When i crank both you cant hear any difference or bleed. The clean channel pretty much sounds the same regardless of the gain channel being cranked, dont see any difference on the power tube glow intensity either.
Actually it sound really good, like a build in attenuator, allthough it is a bit noisier then when both are set at low volume. I did check the power tubes and they do glow a bit more intense with the clean channel cranked.
The master volume pot seems to be replaced with a different one then stock too, not sure though but its alot larger then the other volume pots at least.
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Heard a band last night using Laney VC amps and they sounded great for medium gain, so am now thinking about getting a VC15 and some kind of attenuator. The lightbulb attenuator sounds interesting, do you have a diagram/picture of it and is it possible to make one suitable for 15w amps?
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Errrrr, are there any Laney's suitable for high gain??????
I always though they sounded fairly like marshall head but then a bit thicker and with a bit more low end basically.
If you have a 50watt head it wont sound much different then a 15 watt. Actually the 15w VC sounds very bland IMO.
Just try this, volumes at 3, gain just over noon(find 'dirty rock' sweet spot but definately not past 3 oclock), eq at B-noon, M-1 oclock, H-2 oclock. At this setting the preamp gets a sweet edgy tone, quite dirty but then..... Put a booster in front (just some basic od pedal is fine, distortion works differently though), volume at 2-3 oclock and gain at about 8-9 oclock st start with. Now when you kick in the booster the amp goes from a nice edgy dirt to nicely saturated drive, open up the gain/volume a bit to find the right amount of gain. Could be you need to cut a bit on the lows bit if i remember correctly it worked fine on the laney combo i tried,
This pretty much works on any 50w marshall type amp, if it doesnt like the teets your doing something wrong!!! :lol: :wink:
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The GH has loads of gain if you want it. With a booster to tighten up the low end its great for metal if thats what you're into. Will try out the GH on clean with a booster when I get home next, I'm thinking of making a BYOC Screamer clone.
I've only tried a VC30, it sounded good to me. Apparently they're greatly improved with a speaker change though, the stock ones arent meant to be amazing.
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Yeah i know it can be done,
http://www.myspace.com/consumingimpulse
But not many do it this well..... (marshall though not laney)
Anyway, ive tried but i guess youve given up on your amp, still a shame though since i think amps are basically very similar, just need a good tweakin', well that and a cab with greenbacks offcourse :P
PS: at least listen Twisted truth :twisted:
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Well I'll give it a go, I actually quite like the cleans I get from the GH. Would try a blackstar pedal out but theyre quite expensive and I dont know anywhere locally that sells them.
edit - just listening to Pestilence now, not a bad tone but really thin, typical thrash style sound though. Listen to the You Could be Mine cover in the link in my sig, I love the recorded tone I got for rock, slightly fizzy/high gain (master was only on 1, which is still too loud for playing at home for more than 10 minutes) but I like it :)
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The cleans are the hardest to get right because one cant do much to the power amp part, the preamp can be made to sound like you want usually. The blackstar is the most versatile stompbox ive had, the ISF voicing makes it sound totally different with a nodge. It sounds quite alot like a marshall preamp, at least the dist version does, i would try them out before you buy one because there is a subtle difference between them you have to hear to make your mind up IMO. I do think either dist or dual would be great though. I do think the dist i have sounds best on the clean channel though, it does sound impressive on the gain channel too, but a normal stombox is less noisy and is tighter sounding IMO.
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edit - just listening to Pestilence now, not a bad tone but really thin, typical thrash style sound though. Listen to the You Could be Mine cover in the link in my sig, I love the recorded tone I got for rock, slightly fizzy/high gain (master was only on 1, which is still too loud for playing at home for more than 10 minutes) but I like it :)
IMVHO trying to get a big fat distortion tone out of the usual vintage-y Marshall kind of amp results in a pit full of poo, youll be better off with a modern amp then IMO. Ive played metal on my marshall, but allways just used the clean channel with a nice pile of stacked drive stages.
Your rock tone is very close to a 90's heavy metal tone IMO, heavy metal has a bit more compressed/sustained/boosted highs i think though. I dont think you would get that kind of saturation out of a 15w head.
Just try some lower amps settings, maybe it will sound a bit thinner but i highly doubt it will sound very bad all off a sudden.
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The only thing is with the master under 1 its really fizzy and thin, not pushing the speakers enough I guess. Same happened when using a hotplate with the GH, though the Hotplate did wonders for my HRDx. Maybe with a 1x12 itd be a bit better though.
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Im kind off getting confused here, so you have a gh 50 or 100L? And using a 2x12 with the channel vol crancked and the master on 1 it is too loud?
If your folks are that strict about noise i would definately take the rig to uni, i make more noise than that acoustically :lol:
In general i fill the house up to a nice 'shopping mall' background volume, which is pretty much cranked halfway, or play at loud TV volume at which i sit in front of the amp.
Anyway, i dont crank the channel volume, i only push the preamp into sounding like it. Master is pretty much at 2-3 (8-9 oclock) then, same as the channel vol.
I also dont mind the sound being a bit thinner, it just is like that and i know what it sounds like when cranked anyway so.....
The 2205 is a very good recording volume amp though, sounds strange maybe but it is.
If you have the 100w version you can simply take it down to 50 watts which would make some difference.
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Sorry, I have a GH50L and a 2x12 with G12Hs in it. It has controls for preamp gain and an overall master volume. Above 1 its way too loud for home use, my parents just tolerate it but can tell its annoying :lol: Dont think I am going to be getting a new amp now anyway, as I'm likely to be buying twinfans Pearl LP copy, unless someone else beats me to it :)
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Ah ok, i couldnt care less if my parents found my playing annoying actually :oops:
Anyway, now im pretty sure you must join a band, even if its only to crank that amp!
I think i know what it is, if you put a 50w head trough 60w worth speakers you are driving them really hard, my bluesbreaker combo is also louder then my JCM rig at the same volume. Im not sure but thats the only thing i can think of.
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Yeah, thats probably it. Even playing in the old cover band, the loudest it needed to be was master on 2, so its not like I'm ever running it on 10 to push the speakers all the way. Still trying to find some people to play with, no luck so far :(
btw, I finally found a really good Minimat clip - http://www.matamp.co.nz/audio/minimat/6V6-MiniMat.mp3
Thats with a G12H as well, there are clips of it on that site with a Celestion Hot-100 and they suck. Theres a clip of it through a G12M25 and its not bad, but much thinner than the G12H. The dirty tone halfway through sounds awesome for ACDC type stuff :D I understand they're making a new minimat, sounds interesting :)
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Check out the Epiphone Valve Junior, stack version(not the combo). 5 watt tube that sounds nice clean at low volumes but can also get damn loud. I have it and love it. There are also about a million mod packages out there for it, it will give you something to do if you feel like changing something. Very affordable for a tube amp.
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Yeah, thats probably it. Even playing in the old cover band, the loudest it needed to be was master on 2, so its not like I'm ever running it on 10 to push the speakers all the way. Still trying to find some people to play with, no luck so far :(
btw, I finally found a really good Minimat clip - http://www.matamp.co.nz/audio/minimat/6V6-MiniMat.mp3
Thats with a G12H as well, there are clips of it on that site with a Celestion Hot-100 and they suck. Theres a clip of it through a G12M25 and its not bad, but much thinner than the G12H. The dirty tone halfway through sounds awesome for ACDC type stuff :D I understand they're making a new minimat, sounds interesting :)
Just keep looking, will work out fine.....
Well the flat eq isnt the best setting for the greenbacks, but if you ask me the greenback track b!tchsl@ps all the other tracks, just listen to the mellow intro, great expression IMO, but agreed its a matter of taste offcourse.
Anyway, the thing i have against low wattage amps is that a higher wattage amp can do a low W amps sound but a low W amp can never get the saturation and sheer PHAT a high W amp can. That AND the fact that i think playing one amp allmost exclusively generates the best progress, changing gear alot usually didnt help me along at least.
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Yeah, true. Like I said, if I'm buying twinfans LP then I wont be getting another amp for some time anyway so this thread is kinda redundant now, other than being a huge discussion about amps which has just given me more gas :lol:
I just remembered I have a Kustom KGA65 solid state amp in the attic actually I might get dad to bring that down for me to have a go on. I remember it sounding allright last time I used it, the clean is way bright but the distortion channel wasnt too bad. Twas just loud enough for playing in a band as well and its light so if I get any band going this will suffice to start with!
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Just to say that I tried one of those little 5 watt fenders today (the Vibro Champ XD) and it was excellent on the clean(ish) settings, it was very fender.
With a tele it twanged, and with a LP type it was pretty good too. The digital reverb sounded pretty good (not was warm as a spring but nice none the less).
The voicing control for higher gain settings where ok (certainly better than the average line6 sh1t), but nowhere as much fun as the fender tone, just heading into breakup. There is also an excellent compressed country style setting (which surprised me as I usually hate the cliched country tones)
BTW it is more than loud enough.
At 180 quid I liked it, but preferred my Blues Jr a little more than the Champ
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...but the Blues Junior is a very underrated amp - not really Fender at all in its range.
Kilby - have you done the BillM mods - I finished them today and with an Eminence Texas Heat as a speaker its a killer.
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...but the Blues Junior is a very underrated amp - not really Fender at all in its range.
Kilby - have you done the BillM mods - I finished them today and with an Eminence Texas Heat as a speaker its a killer.
It's a totally forgotten amp as far as I am concerned. I once heard the Blues Jr users referred to as the Blues Jr Mafia a few years ago. It gives a great blues tone with my strat (ain't got the strat any more), and gives an amazing light overdrive Beatles tone with the Ric
I havn't modded it yet as the ZVex Nano has almost totally replaced it, though I am looking at a small attenuator to rehabilitate it for home use (as it is loud for home use)
I have was going to do the BillM mods but 3 years in London prevented that, and integration back into family life has removed most of my time for FX & Amp modding (for a while)
Though straight out of the box it does a great job, a valve change (either for more cleans, or more dirt) can delay the day you decide that it really does need a new speaker & some mods.
I was thinking of some of those Webber hemp speakers for it.
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I'd go with a Peavey Classic 30, or a Fender Blues Jr.... or maybe an old Fender Champ just for retroness of it, and bonus points for that if you have a friend named Joe whose garage you jam in.
I've played some Les Pauls through Fender Blues Jrs.... great sound.
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How loud are the Blues Jrs though?
Tbh right now I'm just thinking about getting a Pod XT or Pocket Pod and putting up with that - have a V-Amp 2 but it no longer stores my presets and I just want a change really, plus Line 6 stuff apparently sounds better.
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The Blues Junior is a 15 watt tube amp and it is pretty damn loud. I have played it quite a few times, lovely sound. I really like it, crisp and clean and not a bad reverb channel. I also like the fat switch, which really thickens up your tone nicely. Good amp for the money.
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pod stuff ain't bad but the vox tonelabs..are better if you have the cash or the boss stuff
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How loud are the Blues Jrs though?
With 15 watts of valve power it can go pretty loud, though it does sound pretty good at low volumes as you have the gain / master volumes to play with (an l-pad (or a lightbulb) attenuator can work wonders too).
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BJrs are loud (you can gig a small room with them) but the separate master and volume (which should be called gain) means that you can get most loud tones at bedroom levels by turning the master to max and the volume to low for clean or vice versa for lows.
To make it a really good amp you need to do about £20 worth of mods (they are: change the tone capacitors for orange drops, reset the bias resistor, put another capacitor in the power supply can and a jumper lead in the middle control) - the mods are easy for anyone who can do a Monte Allums pedal mod: no drilling or cutting new circuits required - type BillM into google for the mods.
Its clearly not a booteek amp though and has an EL84 power base so it like a Fender version of the AC15.
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oops Kilby beat me to it . . .
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BJrs are loud (you can gig a small room with them) but the separate master and volume (which should be called gain) means that you can get most loud tones at bedroom levels by turning the master to max and the volume to low for clean or vice versa for lows.
To make it a really good amp you need to do about £20 worth of mods (they are: change the tone capacitors for orange drops, reset the bias resistor, put another capacitor in the power supply can and a jumper lead in the middle control) - the mods are easy for anyone who can do a Monte Allums pedal mod: no drilling or cutting new circuits required - type BillM into google for the mods.
Its clearly not a booteek amp though and has an EL84 power base so it like a Fender version of the AC15.
Is there a risk of me shocking myself and dying whilst performing these mods? I really like the sound of the Blues Jr with fuzzface in this video - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YpaT_S7cEis
Fender version of the AC15 eh? I like the sound of Voxes so this has interested me now :) Is the stock speaker good enough or does it need changing out for something better?
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Shocking, oh yes so ALWAYS DRAIN THE CAPACITORS FIRST - the hard part is taking the PCB out for the tone mods - it requires lots of patience -
I have a tweed Bjr - so I never had a stock speaker (Jensen C12N instead) but on the FDP people think either the Eminence Texas Heat or the G12H are the best upgrades. I run mine through a Texas Heat or 2x12 with Classic Leads most of the time.
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If your going the BJ way, which have alot better clean then a superchamp IMO, get a USA made one used. They are not only better made, but will keep value alot better since everyone wants an USA made. You wont have any problem finding one used if you have a bit of patience or dont mind traveling a bit.....
The Blues deluxe is still alot better though IMHO, and only costs a wee bit more used....
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The Blues Jr stock speaker is ok, I do have a link somewhere for a load of mods, and also comparasons using different valves and speakers.
I will try and dig the link out as I think it is on the pendrive that has decided to hide on me.
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Look at these for the basics:
http://home.comcast.net/~machrone/bluesjunior.htm
I would add I don't agree that USA BJrs are better made than the Mexican run - as a US product they keep their value; but they are the old green pcb amps that were too dark, had defective reverb circuitry and some issues with the fat switch.
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Have decided to build my own(from a kit) a 6v6 5watt amp(head)