Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Henk on January 19, 2008, 03:10:01 PM
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Hey!
There is alot of discussion about pedals and amps on this forum, i found the read below some time ago and i realised i dont like a pedal for the sound it has, just for the way it enhances the sound of my amps. So this thread is about enhancing the sound of your amp, not about putting a pedal in front of it so you will sound like Zakk Wilde or whoever.
Then there are offcourse the clips one can hear online, always sounding great obviously, but do they give a good representation of what the pedal will be like when you plug it into your amp?
Basically a pedal cannot 'sound good' IMVHO, its always a combination of amp and pedal that works or not, which always will be a matter of personal taste. Still there are some guidelines one can discuss.
http://www.legendarytones.com/ttmarsha.html
What do you think about the article?
Kindest regards, Henk
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I just watched a good DVD called 'Fuzz-The sound that changed the world'.
Of course it was about pedals.
Many wise men (many hardened builders and engineers) came to the conclusion that, it's the newest fad. In that before internet forums made booteek and small manufacturers known/popular you would find 'your' amp and 'your' guitar and MAKE MUSIC. Now it seem's many spend more time getting wrapped up in 'gear buying/swapping' in search of a tone that they will not find as A.they don't practice enough to make good music and become proficient to start with and B.there is always someone 'raving' about the newest/latest/greatest that people buy into by reading someones opinion who may have 0 wisdom to write about such things.
In a nutshell. Buy your 'core' things that please 'your' ear, amp/guitar and play the ever loving shitee outta them. Then and only then you MAY be qualified to decide you need a pedal that will give you a certain different sound/tone. Then buy ONE pedal that has a GOOD rep. for doing this and play the ever loving poop outta that to REALLY understand how it does/can work.
I am not nor never have been a pedal whoar. I prefer myself to play. I have gone through several guitars and amps in my 'learning curve' to what MY ears want to hear tonewise as a core. But I DO think/agree that too many nowadays get caught up in this forum/internet thing and the quest for the 'new' thing (whereas in actuality most pedals now are clones of orig. pedals wether hard to find or not and not much revolutionary is being made per se) whereas they may be better honing their skills/personal sound and making music which this is all about in the first place (unless you are simply a 'collector' of course).
Anyway, ya pay ya money and take ya chance etc. but I truly do NOT think ANY pedal/amp/guitar will make anyone play/make music any better, only detract from the learning experience of just 'playing' and learning what you already have. :)
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$%&# Dakine, I agree so much. I used to have quite a large board, with designs on an even larger board. Then I got broke, couldn't buy anything and had to sell other stuff to keep the roof above my head and so on. Stripped back down to four pedals (fuzz, dist, phaser, delay).
12 months on, and guess what...still the same four pedals - out of CHOICE this time.
Now, with some studio time under my belt and some more upcoming, I am considering adding one or two pedals also. Having said that, I'm scared of putting too much on the board! Whatever I'm gonna add, it has to be added with taste and quality!
The idea of making music has become corrupted somewhat by the capitalist/magic pill mindset IMO.
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Hey Willo, long time no see, how ya doin' bud?
Basically, the 'net CAN be a great tool, for research, education, community, BUT is THE BEST for a business!
Back in the day there were no TABS, few books, little anything. People learnt from listening and playing.
Same with gear. They tried it themselves, heard a band or buddy and got an idea then tried it or just did with what they could get.
Now, we have, Look at this! Buy this to sound like XYZ! I will make you play better! Listen to me 'I' know what I am doing! Look who uses this (usually 'product placement').
What I mean is, what happened to Learning and Making Music and Enjoying it?
Not salivating for the latest shiny,XYZ Endorsed, OOH it has more NOBS! cr@p.
I will GAURANTEE I can play on ANY of y'all's rigs here and sound like ME!
Especially the younger guys, don't break ya back/forgo practice/work ya butt off to get the latest/greatest.
It WILL come, do ya OWN thing and inovate don't immitate and HAVE FUN MAKING MUSIC. Tweak/Dream/Lust less and just Make Noise :)
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In that before internet forums made booteek and small manufacturers known/popular you would find 'your' amp and 'your' guitar and MAKE MUSIC.
amen.
I never buy gear. Ever. In fact, despite having played the guitar for the last 20+ years, and doing OK financially, I own 2 guitars (Charvel and Simon & Patrick (not including a piece of shite bass that I picked up for about £30 on Ebay...)), a pretty decent vintage Orange head, a Marshall 4x12, a DigiTech effect/amp modelling pedal, a Blackstar HT Dual, and a clone of an OD250 that I bought online and built myself.
I don't know if it's just that I'm lazy, but I've always been someone that is happy with whatever tone I'm using. If someone gave me a cr@p little Strat copy and a nasty trannie practice amp I'd just sit there and pluck away I think...
GAS is a term that I've recently been introduced to on this forum, and I think that we can get too caught up in the process... I think that there's a lot to be said for finding a sound and making it your own.
So endeth the sermon.
Mark.
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OK, I'll bite.
I'm a well known GAS-aholic. Half the fun of "guitar playing" to me is finding/trying/buying/selling gear. It's a lifestyle thing to me, not just a way to make music. I'll never be a full time musician, so this "lifestyle" is my hobby.
Just because I'm different to you, it doesn't make me less of a guitarist ;)
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Half the fun of "guitar playing" to me is finding/trying/buying/selling gear.
I guess that's what I don't have. Never really like buying stuff, myself. Hate parting with money!
Viva la difference, I say!
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Did'nt say anyone would be more of a guitarist or musician by not buying/lusting/swapping stuff.
I do believe that more time learning how what we have works, rather than getting somthing and 'fiddling' and thinking 'nah, need somthing else' feeds the business game.
This was in NO WAY a slight or taunt or dig so if anyone takes it this way (after this post) then that is YOUR fault/failing.
I am simply stating that in MY and many's opinion that MUSIC is getting lost in the more fashionable buying/trading/lusting after NEW/touted/shiny gear.
You of all people Dave seem to know this. Are'nt you the one who has had amps made for you? Thus getting YOUR tone rather than relying on heresay/marketing and those that want to make money from people?
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I have matey and I've arrived at that point after a LONG time of buying/selling/playing lots of gear. I've really enjoyed the journey, and that to me is the fun of this thing we call gutar playing :) By trying LOADS of stuff out that's how I've arrived at where I am now.
I wasn't taking your posts as a dig at anyone, and the "less of a guitarist" comment wasn't meant to stir up trouble. I was just saying we have different opinions on stuff. I think you get your point across really well and I can see where you're coming from for sure. Sometimes change for change's sake can be a good and inspiring thing too though can't it?
I've always been fascinated with the gear people use as well as the music they make. Same with my other hobby of motorbikes and bike racing. As well as who can ride the best, I really enjoy learning about the underlying technical specs of their machines.
Vive la difference!
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Dave,
basically, I was shocked at the honesty of the pedal makers in the DVD. Even they knew the net and forum's had suddenly sent them from hobbyists making pedals for themselves and friends to sometimes cult status. This ends in ,at times, waiting lists and also pedals making higher prices used on Ebay than new as 'some' people cannot wait to have 'the latest thing'. Along with this, interesting to me, was many admitted they were just tweaking/being a hobbyist and were not inventing anything new/revolutionary thus were perplexed at their new found celeb/booteek status.
What I took from it was/is that the 'business' angle of this whole thing is almost overtaking the actual point of 'making music'.
If one collects or is even aiming to make money then thats one thing, but to obsess more on 'the NEW pedal' more than what you CAN do with what you have is self-defeating.
We, in my opinion, in the Western World live in an increasingly 'throw away' society. Why not (which is what most of these pedal makers did at the start) learn somthing about what we use or take what we have to someone qualified to modify what we have instead of often selling at a loss and buying somthing else.
Anyway, NOT in any way suggesting how anyone spends their time or money but in this age of Randy Rhodes Sig. Amps, Zakk Wylde Sig. pedals, he uses this and endorses that, why not get ya OWN thing going which is often more satisfying and cheaper to boot :)
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Cheers guys,
Thats the basic problem nowadays, that it is promoted to just buy a new rig if your unhappy with the sound of yours. And in this process never really learning how to work with the amp you have.
What im basically trying to say here is that with the right tools anyone can CREATE so much more of what they have in their heads.
See the irony here? Modern marketing strategies are basically sucking the creative process out of the music, you actually 'need' to buy more and more just to keep on going.
Twinfan, like me for that matter, made it a hobby to trade stuff. I started this when i was playing constantly anyway and took some stuff friends needed but couldnt get because they had no car or whatever. Im talking early 90's here and compared to these days most shops had a Fender and a couple of Hondo's so i needed to go to a mayor city to get something decent. And without the internet everything was about trading stuff with eachother and this way getting your gear together. Also the used market was focussed around shops unlike nowadays where everyone is selling and buying on the net, big difference.
So there you go, ive tried soooooo many things i cant even remember half of it, but what are the keepers, a couple of old guitars, a good amp and a few pedals.
The weird thing is however, back when i only had a really cr@ppy guitar, an amp loud enough to gig and a couple of pedals i was playing the best stuff, having the best musical ideas and getting it right with a few tweaks every time i switched on my amp.
Even getting weirder, looking at what the 'great guitarists' used to get their tone, its actually all a fluke, some OD pedal, a GOOD amp and a nice 'customized on a few practical issues' guitar. So we should know getting great tone is just in the fingers........
So there if your unhappy with your tone, or actually your playing, fire yourself up and just play till your arms fall off, and all will be fine eventually :guitar4: .
Greetings and thanks for the interest,
Henk
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An interesting discussion, with some good points raised.
I firmly believe that I have two different hobbies involving the guitar. Firstly I am a guitarist, I play the guitar. I've played for over 20 years. Often it is great just to make music with the gear that you have. Sometimes I feel musically inspired by a new piece of kit, or a pedal or something. It actually inspires me to play better, and sometimes different music.
Secondly, I am a tone-seeker (a "gear head" - whatever you want to call it !). it's definately a different hobby than being a guitarist. I love trying new gear, especially amps !! I get a huge amount of enjoyment scouring the www for info about all sorts of guitar gear.
Not all guitarists are gearheads, and not all guitar gearheads are guitarists (believe me I've met some). Neither one is better than the other, just different.
Alan
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I never buy gear. Ever.
I own ... a Blackstar HT Dual
Hey Mark,
Hmmm. The Blackstars haven't been around long. Did that one just materialise in your house ?? :wink: :lol:
Alan
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I don't own a single pedal. Which I suppose is quite blasphemous - ha..
And the whole buying stuff I'm into that, more on the guitar side, but I'd sell a guitar or two things to improve my amp.
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OK, I'll bite.
I'm a well known GAS-aholic. Half the fun of "guitar playing" to me is finding/trying/buying/selling gear. It's a lifestyle thing to me, not just a way to make music. I'll never be a full time musician, so this "lifestyle" is my hobby.
Just because I'm different to you, it doesn't make me less of a guitarist ;)
Yep, I enjoy talking about and buying new gear just as much as playing the guitar, but I seem to spend more time talking about it than actually playing at the minute as can probably be seen from my stupidly high post count :oops: Though, I think I've come to a conclusion and wont be buying much more gear for a while (after Twinfans Pearl LP of course:)) - I love Les Pauls so I'm just sticking to them as I know its a tone and feel I get on with. Had a strat for a few months but didnt get on with it and when I was playing it was always worrying about the feel and tone of it but now can just concentrate more on the playing (well, unless the new guitar needs BKPs :roll: ).
As for pedals, I only use a V847, tuner and an eq (in the fx loop for lead boosts), occasionally an overdrive or fuzz if I want a different sound.
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GAS dictates you'll have to get pickups for the Pearl LP Tom. I reckon a set of Rebel Yells would sound awesome ;)
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I actually have a Rebel Yell bridge I can stick in, I didnt like the sound of the RY in my strat or Charvel though. In the Charvel was fizzy for lack of a better description, and the strat was a bit too nasal sounding. Was thinking if its a fairly thick/dark guitar then VHIIs would work well.
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Sounds ideal!
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One of the things I would say ( and I have said this before) is that the quest for tone,often the most obsessive thing that many of us are subject tois tempered by the fact that just when you think tha you have "the tone" you start getting used to it and it begins to pale and so the quest continues anew.As there seems to be an endless supply of new gizmos to tempt us all, we can perhaps be forgiven for the attacks of GAS that we are all subject to. Those who buy more gear instead of improving their technique are deluding themselves of course but if they have the cash, then good luck to them. Pedals are a good way that some people (including me at times it has to be conceded)can mask a sloppy technique but equally they send you off in a new direction and inspire you to go where you might not otherwise have gone. Thems my thoughts.
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I agree with Dakine there, don't neccesarily practice it though. Don't think I buy as much as others but certainly more than the people around me.
I am happy with Guitar, OD, EQ and amp. I don't fiddle with the amps EQ much at all, the EQ just smooths it out, and lets me change the basic amp EQ whenever I feel like it.
I don't like the word tone for some reason neither :? Just like to say that I like that SOUND :P
Could it be argued that to get anywhere in the music business now that it is neccesary to buy all this stuff and be a GAS a holic, to compete with the other bands seeking the same fame? (not my opinion, just a perspective)
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Do you guys have this sometimes?
When i play one of my guitars with a certain pedal alot for a couple of weeks, my other stuff just sounds like utter sh!t, but when i switch and get trough the first 'getting used to the differences' and 'tune myself' back into its sound its all just perfect again...
The though of just dumping all to get one guitar/rig has been crossing my mind often, to pretty much force myself to improve on a personal level instead of just switching gear when it becomes a drag.
Or am i just getting old and have a problem adjusting?
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One of the things I would say ( and I have said this before) is that the quest for tone,often the most obsessive thing that many of us are subject tois tempered by the fact that just when you think tha you have "the tone" you start getting used to it and it begins to pale and so the quest continues anew.As there seems to be an endless supply of new gizmos to tempt us all, we can perhaps be forgiven for the attacks of GAS that we are all subject to. Those who buy more gear instead of improving their technique are deluding themselves of course but if they have the cash, then good luck to them. Pedals are a good way that some people (including me at times it has to be conceded)can mask a sloppy technique but equally they send you off in a new direction and inspire you to go where you might not otherwise have gone. Thems my thoughts.
I agree Mr.38th
I'd rather have'em and not use them then to be in a situation where I just can't capture the sound I'm after unless I pass the the signal through my *^%# brand pedal of the moment. I just find my noodles are much more tasty after dipping in the pedel pool for awhile.
But I am a life long student, never a master.
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Hey Mark,
Hmmm. The Blackstars haven't been around long. Did that one just materialise in your house ??
It's a fair cop - I'm just talking shitee again... :(
Actually, the whole BKP thing has gotten me back into tone, and playing with sounds. The installation of 2 Nailbombs into my Charvel opened my ears so much, I had to ditch the sterile but functional multiFX box, and I've been secretly buying kit and hiding it from my wife for a couple of months now...
I remember reading an editorial by Neville Martin (I think) years ago when he was running Guitarist, and he said somthing along the lines of - every now and then you should buy SOMETHING. It makes you re-evaluate your tone, shakes things up a little.
I don't think that's a bad idea at all.
Mark.