Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Scotty477 on January 21, 2008, 01:28:29 PM
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Further to a thread I made recently, Im looking for opinions on users of small valve amps.
My remit is this;
1. It's for home use only. Practice and recording. If I get myself into a gigging rock/blues band I'll get something bigger if and when that happens.
2. I play a Gibson LP Classic, with BKP Emerald pup's.
3. Price range. Ideally not over £500 - preferrably less :wink:
4. My preferred style of play is Classic Rock/Blues.
5. Size. I'm constrained by storage space at the moment, so ideally the width doesnt exceed 59 cms. This basically means a single speaker amp I guess.
6. This is the stickler ... The ability to be used at house volume without losing too much tone. I could buy an attenuator but then I'm adding on £200, which I would rather spend on the amp.
So far I have looked at and had to discard the following amps;
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 112 (Great up loud but lost a lot at house volume)
Peavey Windsor studio (Reports of lack of clean channel.)
The amps that I'm going to have a look at this week are as follows;
Fender Super Champ XD
Fender Princeton
Peavey Valve King 112
Peavey Classic 30
Laney VC 30
Marshall DSL 201/401
Koch Studiotone (if I can find one in Glasgow)
That's about it really. If you use or have used an amp that fits the bill I'd appreciate your views.
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Do not get a HRDx if you want to play at reasonable volumes, I had one and it only does 3 volumes - too quiet and thin, loud, or too loud :lol: I heard changing the pot to an audio taper (apparently they use log or something?) makes it better but I never bothered trying it as I'd probably end up getting a bad shock or something. It also only really does cleans, the overdrives on it are pretty bad so you'd need a pedal really. Not a terrible amp, has nice cleans and reverb, but the volume thing was just too annoying for me so I got rid of it. I used it with a Keeley Rat and Marshall Guvnor 2 and got some allright tones but as I mostly play with some dirt I got an amp that does those kinda tones better.
Heard a Laney VC30 2x12 at a gig the other week and it sounded good to me. Apparently the Peavey C30s are really good and I've heard some awesome clips of them, so may be worth checking out. This clips pretty good, though a bit more gain than I'd use- http://www.thewindtunnel.com/Songs/Dearest%20Valentine.mp3
edit - Just realised you'd allready discarded the hrdx :oops:
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Cornford Harlequin- 2nd hand
Orange Tiny terror and 1 X12 cab
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I really know bugger all about amps so feel free to ignore me, but I'm surprised you haven't got the Orange Tiny Terror or Matamp Minimat/Little Rock on your list.
I haven't tried one, but I really like the look of the Koch Studiotone (mostly on aesthetics, I must admit).
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In my experience:
1) Orange Tiny Terror and 1x12 - just about on budget and it has a good master volume. Best for overdrive, not so great for cleans.
2) Matamp Minimat II - good basic tone with a built in attenuator. Could push the budget a little unless you can get a cheap 1x12. Great clean and crunchy tone, you'd need pedals for more dirt.
I'd avoid the Epiphone Valve Junior and similar amps. They really need plenty of mods to sound good enough for home recording.
Best option maybe the Laney Lionheart 1x12 combo at £499 - I've played the big brother and it sounded nice:
http://www.laney.co.uk/show_spec.php?prod=l5t-112
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Classic 30, although the 50 has noticeably more clean headroom.
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I disagree about the Epiphone Valve Junior. Unless you are talking about the combo. I would avoid the 5 watt combo, very boxy sound. I own the head and cabinet version though and love it. A little dark, although I don't mind it. I get a nice bluesy tone with humbuckers. And, there are plenty of very inexpensive mods out there to brighten things up if you need. Also, it is quite loud for a 5 watt but sounds good at room levels. But that's just my opinion.
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Yep, I was talking about the combo - sorry, should have made that clear. It IS boxy sounding. OK for low volume practice but not for recording, even with lots of mods.
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If you checked out the Fender Hot Rod Dlx and liked - why not look at the Blues Junior - it is a hot rod series and with master and volume so you can get some decent valve crunch at lowish volumes. It can also get loud.
Needs the BillM mods to bring it out fully, though - easy to do, if a little difficult to take the PCB out.
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COnsider a secondhand Cornford Harlequin. These are truly professional, handwired, wonderful amps and in a different class to anything else that has been mentioned. £650 new. I'm sure you could pick up a used one for under £500 if you kept a eye out on ebay. It would not really depreciate either.
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Not on your list but IMO 'your' cup of tea is the Blues deluxe 1x12 tweedy.
I see them used by pop guitarists often and they sound great for that purpose.
I know im guessing what would be a good amp for you, so ill add an artist myspace page so you can get a better idea.
Probably stock speaker was replaced though.....
http://www.myspace.com/guitarwoody
Hes also on youtube, but not in a band kind of setting, though that was important though.....
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At that pricepoint I would seriously look at a Matamp Minimat II head or combo.
Awesome amp, custom options, trip to the factory - happy days.
Just get a nice booster for heavier drive, if you need it.
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Classic 30, although the 50 has noticeably more clean headroom.
Yes, the Classic 30 is certainly worth a try. I use a Classic 20 at home and once spent some time with a local session guitarist that used his Classic 30 all the time. I liked the flexibility that the extra 10 watts and reverb gave him, whilst still being very portable. he could dial in a good range of sounds too. I only wish that I had known of the Classic 30 before I bought the 20, but hey that's life !
Of course now, we have the age of the small valve modelling amps too, and I would be interested in trying out the current range of Fender Champs e.t.c. if starting again.
:D
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I haven't tried one, but I really like the look of the Koch Studiotone (mostly on aesthetics, I must admit).
you like the aesthetics of a koch? :oops:
sorry. seriously, though, might as well add a laney lionheart 5 watter to your list, but it's pretty expensive for a 5-watter...
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Thanks for the responses. I'll respnd to those shorlty.
I went into Sound Control Glasgow this afternoon and tried out 4 amps (all I had time for).
I was given a 2007 Gibson LP Std - 60 with Burstbucker V pups to use.
First up was the Peavey Valve King 112.
It had a pretty straightforward clean sound to it and when put to the OD chan it growled away nicely, but with a markedly, thick deep voice. My attempts to get more top end didn't work, which perplexed me a bit.
All in it was pretty good and the sales guy seemed keen to sell me it for a 'good deal' £279 - which is a damn good price to be fair.
It was a good start and it impressed me.
Next up was an amp that wasn't on the list - Fender Vibro Champ XD
This had a very flat tone, compared to the Valve King but with decent preset sounds. It wasn't for me ... which I suppose rules out the Super Champ as well, seeing as it's the same build
Next was another not on my original list - the Sound City SC-40C combo.
This was very different from the Valve King. It had a nice wide open feel but it was slightly fizzy when the gain was pushed. IMHO it would be great for punk but not for Rock/Blues and not for me.
Last up - Marshall DSL 401.
This absolutely rocked! In OD1 It growled. It sparkled. It just sounded wonderful - and it made the LP come alive. Then I pressed the OD2 chan switch and it went into orbit.
It didn't have the deep crunch of the valve King - which surprised me a bit but it did have the edge on upper and mid tone.
That was all I had time for but I'm going back tomorrow with my Emerald LP to try the Valve King, DSL 401 and a few others they have. I saw a Tiny Terror in the corner and I'm sure I saw a Blues Deluxe as well.
I'll also have a go at the Peavey Classic 30, Laney AC 30 and perhaps a Marshall TSL 601, although it's slightly over budget.
In response to the suggestions made ... The Cornford Harlequin may be just too big for my storage constraint but I want to hear one anyway :D
Matamp I know nothing about tbh and again, I want to hear one.
Ah well ... I'll have to work harder and try out more amps.
No rest for the wicked :wink:
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yeah, i thougt the VK sounded nicer with single coils to be honest.
i'd have thought the dsl (and tsl) would be too modern for rock and blues, but obviously preference and all that.
i'd definitely try the classic 30 and laney vc30 (maybe even the lionheart if you're willing to stretch that far) for rock and blues...i'd say they're much nicer than the jcm2000's for more vintage tones...
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The VK would have sounded nice with a Strat I think. I'm pretty sure the Emeralds won't go with the thick crunch it has but I'm salivating at the thought of the DSL with the Emeralds.
The DSL was brighter but when I say Blues, I really mean Rock Blues - Gary Moore style etc. I can see how my just stating Blues may have been misleading.
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I've got an Epi Valve Junior head on the way and a Mercury Magnetics transformer upgrade - gonna be interesting to see how much I can squeeze out of this circuit.
8)
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I haven't tried one, but I really like the look of the Koch Studiotone (mostly on aesthetics, I must admit).
you like the aesthetics of a koch? :oops:
Yeah, I know, not my usual exquisite good taste. :wink:
I just like the Studiotone head because it's so tiny and relatively simple (but still with quite comprehensive features). I really dislike big amps. Good things come in small packages....
.... as I keep trying to convince myself. :|
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I like the Classic 30 or Classic 50s quite a bit, and the Fender Blues Jr isn't bad either, or the Deluxe or Deville depending on what size you want.
New Laneys sound good from soundclips and are a favorite here but I haven't played a newer Laney (not much of a fan of the older ones), so I can't say.
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The Classic 30 and hopefully a Laney 30 is on the menu today.
The Cornford Harlequin gets quite extraordinary praise on the net, so I'd love to track one down - just to hear it.
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Cornfords have that modern, compressed, saturated sound. I've played thorugh a Hellcat so that's my point of reference. If you like that tone, they do it very well.
Personally I prefer the big, open, 'early Marshall' tone so they do nothing for me!
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Personally I prefer the big, open, 'early Marshall' tone so they do nothing for me!
:lol: 8)
Wise words....
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Hmmm. I may struggle with the Cornford then.
I'm looking for a growly, open tone with plenty of midrange punch. I'm pretty certain the Emeralds will give a lighter sounding amp plenty of bottom end, which is why I'm looking forward to getting my LP through a Marshall DSL 401.
In my head, at least, the Emeralds and the DSL make a good combo. I'll find out later today :D
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The Cornford Harlequin is a great 'blank canvas' of an amp and is easily capable of 'open, big sounding grind' as well as it does modern more compressed tones. The only aspect I didn't like about mine was the V30 speaker and so changed it out for a GM20 greenback.
Depending on your set up, guitar/pickups and not forgetting yer fingers it'll do Marshall-esque thro to smooth Soldano tones.
At the end of the day try as many amps in your price range and judge for yourself. Here's two clips that both use the Harly- one fairly competent player and one very good player.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i1TH2VW4Ddc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7bf2gMyubD4
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mmm kinda liked the first one
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Seriously check out the Tiny Terror. I'm gigging it tonight (barfly- 8pm plug plug) with some BKP and I'm super duper excited. Gives a great growl, and the cleans are nice. Shut up all you TT clean haters. It's awesome.
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I liked the Harlequin tone in the first clip, however i dont believe this amp can be versatile enough for my needs.
Probably any amp that gets sold will sound good at some setting, but if your not into a 1-tone kind of deal i think considering something more versatile, like the DSL combo, would be alot smarter. And by the way that Harlequin tone is HUGE for such a small amp, but fairly standard on my JCM.
Replacing the speaker on a DSL combo should be taken into account IMO, the stock one is pretty cheap IMO.
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Shut up all you TT clean haters. It's awesome.
Try and get a loud clean - no chance! ;)
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Shut up all you TT clean haters. It's awesome.
Try and get a loud clean - no chance! ;)
I found having the master up at full and the gain at 4ish gives a great clean tone :P and it can be heard over our drummer. Suck it . :P
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You've got a girly drummer then ;)
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You've got a girly drummer then ;)
I wouldn't say that to his face... He is a hairy beast.
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I'll say anything to anybody over the 'net :lol:
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You should really check out Swart amps range. I've had their Space Tone 6V6 SE for about a year now and couldn't be happier! It may be a little over your budget but is well worth considering. I would only consider selling mine to get another model! Check out the clips: www.swartamps.com 8)
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I've got an Epi Valve Junior head on the way and a Mercury Magnetics transformer upgrade - gonna be interesting to see how much I can squeeze out of this circuit.
8)
HTH - Can you keep us in the loop about this, I'm most interested.
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Last up - Marshall DSL 401.
Its really interesting to see what you thought about the Marshall.
I was set on buying one and then I tried it and it sounded very very fizzy and poor...
I used an LP too!
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You should really check out Swart amps range. I've had their Space Tone 6V6 SE for about a year now and couldn't be happier! It may be a little over your budget but is well worth considering. I would only consider selling mine to get another model! Check out the clips: www.swartamps.com 8)
..but where near the Uk stocks them....they do sound sweet though
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Last up - Marshall DSL 401.
Its really interesting to see what you thought about the Marshall.
I was set on buying one and then I tried it and it sounded very very fizzy and poor...
I used an LP too!
I found it bright but not fizzy - well to my ears anyway.
I didn't get a chance to get my LP into the store today to see how Emeralds matched up with the DSL but I'm quite certain they have a warmer, darker and more punchy tone than the Burstbucker V's that the LP I was using yesterday had.
I'm assuming that will pull back some off the brightness that I hear - or fizzyness if you like :D
The trick is just how far it's pulled back.
I'll keep you posted on that.
To Canadian Steve -
The Swart's sound nice but a little too Blues based, maybe? I'm certainly not knocking them though. If I was into purley Blues I'd be after one. The clips are excellent
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..but where near the Uk stocks them....they do sound sweet though
I ordered mine direct from Michael Swart and had it modded for use in the UK.
To Canadian Steve -
The Swart's sound nice but a little too Blues based, maybe? I'm certainly not knocking them though. If I was into purley Blues I'd be after one. The clips are excellent
They are quite vintage sounding (if that makes sense!) but I don't mainly play blues myself - musical tastes being Sonic Youth, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins, etc. I sold a Traynor 50 watt 2 channel amp with loads of features and reverb for this little 5 watt 1 channel amp and I couldn't be happier. For a bedroom/recording amp I would recommend going for an amp around 1-10 Watts.
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Last up - Marshall DSL 401.
Its really interesting to see what you thought about the Marshall.
I was set on buying one and then I tried it and it sounded very very fizzy and poor...
I used an LP too!
I found it bright but not fizzy - well to my ears anyway.
I didn't get a chance to get my LP into the store today to see how Emeralds matched up with the DSL but I'm quite certain they have a warmer, darker and more punchy tone than the Burstbucker V's that the LP I was using yesterday had.
I'm assuming that will pull back some off the brightness that I hear - or fizzyness if you like :D
The trick is just how far it's pulled back.
I'll keep you posted on that.
To Canadian Steve -
The Swart's sound nice but a little too Blues based, maybe? I'm certainly not knocking them though. If I was into purley Blues I'd be after one. The clips are excellent
The DSL's can sound really fizzy, however I recently changed the speakers in my DSL100 and it really solved this problem now they've broken in abit. It sounds great now, so I'd definately advise a change of speakers if you do decide to get a DSL.
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A V30 would be the way for the DSL combo IMO.
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Have decided to build my own(from a kit) a 6v6 5watt amp(head)
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Have decided to build my own(from a kit) a 6v6 5watt amp(head)
Nice, where did you get the kit from?
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Ok ... Here's the verdict.
I went to 2 stores this afternoon and tried out several amps with my Emerald LP.
The amps tried were in this order:
Marshall DSL401
The Emeralds took a good bit of the brightness off the tone and added depth and even more warmth. It was night and day compared to the Burstbucker V LP I used on Monday. The Classic Rock tone was fantastic but it struggled at the clean tone a bit.
Peavey Classic 30
Very authentic Clean and Bluesey tone. Very smooth and warm. A classic Rock tone could be produced by putting the gain to 10 (out of 12). This tone was warm with a subtle bite. The only problem with this amp was the boost channel. When selected it boosts almost everything ... bass, mid even reverb. Everything except top end - which it seems to miss out completely.
This causes the boost tone to sound fat and muffled, even at loud volume and would be unusable for me. I got the sales guy to have a look and he couldn't understand why the treble wasn't boosted along with everything else. I tried a second Classic 30 at the sales guy suggestion - with the same result. A shame, as this spoiled a good amp imho.
Peavey Valve King 112
Much the same as Monday. No matter what I did I couldn't dial in a tone that went anywhere near the top end. Don't get me wrong, the Clean was good and the crunch I did get was OK as well ... but because the amp won't produce a tone with a bit more top end, it was sounding a bit tired.
Again the sales guy had a look and even tried anothe LP ... with the same result. He tried putting treble full and no bass ... no effect. Perhaps the amp was faulty, I don't know. He didn't have another to test.
By this point I was getting pissed off :evil:
The sales guy suggested that Vox would give me the same problem as the Valve King and then plugged me into a ...
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 112
I mentioned that I had tried one before but found it too loud. He responded that he has one and records in the house with it .. and gigs with it. It could have been sales talk but I tend to believe him.
Anyway, he fired it up and dialed in a Classic Rock tone in the drive channel, set at just above house level.
The guitar instantly came alive, growling and crackling away when I played a few riffs. The tone was astonishing. Ultra clean but dirty at the same time - and almost organic and glassy :o The 6L6 valves clearly agreed with an LP fitted with Emerald pups.
This was far better than I remembered the previous HRDX 112 I played. The clean chan was simply stunning and the more drive channel could be fiddled with to produce awesome solo sounds - in all 3 settings on my LP.
Volume wasn't an issue. The sales guy got the volume down to lowish level - with almost no loss of tone that I could detect.
At £549 (Sound Control price) it was a tad over my budget but I'm sure I'll be able to get a lower price somewhere.
The only other amp I tried was an all tube Line 6 Bognor 112, which was very like my Roland Cube 30, to be honest. Not for me.
So there we have it. My search is at an end - I think :wink:
I know I haven't tried half of the amps suggested in this thread but I probably won't be able to find some of those in Glasgow at any rate.
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You should really check out Swart amps range. I've had their Space Tone 6V6 SE for about a year now and couldn't be happier! It may be a little over your budget but is well worth considering. I would only consider selling mine to get another model! Check out the clips: www.swartamps.com 8)
Woah!Congrats,Steve 8) .I love their sound.Fantastic amp but very expensive,i think.Would love to have one... :(
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Seriously try out the Tiny Terror. I gigged mine last night and it coped admirably. Excellent home tone too, the 7/15 watt switch is amazing.
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Seriously try out the Tiny Terror. I gigged mine last night and it coped admirably. Excellent home tone too, the 7/15 watt switch is amazing.
I actually forgot about the TT. Sound Control have one tucked away in a corner. I'll give it a listen later.
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they are great amps the TT's
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The Cornford Harlequin gets quite extraordinary praise on the net, so I'd love to track one down - just to hear it.
Not that local to you I'm afraid, but one up for sale at £399:
http://www.coda-music.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=170&products_id=3063
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Looks like a decent price but it is a bit out of the way :)
I've managed to source a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 112 in Glasgow for £350, apparently in mint condition.
I'll have a look at it tomorrow.
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I don't know if anybody has tried the Cornford Carrera?It seems much more versatile than the Harlequin...but quite expensive too.