Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: goddamn electric on January 29, 2008, 02:02:57 PM
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Hi Guys, i keep seeing the les paul reissues going on ebay for fairly decent prices and i know that with les pauls you should really try them out before buying them, but im wondering if the custom shop reissues eg r8, r9, r0 are a bit more consistent than the standard production models and it may be worth buying from ebay to save some money.
thanks in advance.
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The Custom Shops are gonna be way more consistent in terms of quality (in theory) because they actually take time to make the instrument rather than just slapping together any old cr@p and scrawling "Gibson" on the headstock.
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All guitars vary in quality with Gibson, there are good and bad examples of each type. I've played cheaper USA Faded Series guitars that were nicer to play than Custom Shop models. The Custom Shop now is more like another production line rather than a true Custom Shop. You can't order special finishes any more (like you used to be able to) for example.
I personally wouldn't spend £1500+ on a guitar without trying it first unless it was for a collection, or seriously underpriced.
Generally the Custom Shop guitars are made from better woods, but there are still average or poor guitars made by them.
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yeah thats what i thought, im just a bit iffy about buying a les paul without playing it, i need to try each model out first to see which one year suits me the most before i even think about it anyway.
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I've read that the R8 has a huge neck, the R9 slightly smaller and the R0 smaller still. I'd love an R0 with a vintage looking plain top :)
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the r9 has the bigger neck , the r8's are pretty much the same but plain topped and a bit cheaper, the r0 has a thin neck
of all of those the 59 is my fave , i have played a few they are pretty consistant
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thats basically what im after! although im interested by the r9's aswell
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I hope you've got plenty of cash if you want an R9 - the upcharge for flamed maple is shocking. It's about £1000 :o
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I bought a custom shop '58 VOS Les Paul off ebay last year and I'm 100% happy that I did. I think I paid £1,500 including the delivery (which took ages because Parcelforce lost it! I ended up picking it up from the local Royal Mail delivery centre and didn't even have to sign for it!!)
The way that I looked at it was that if I decided I didn't like it then I could just stick it back on ebay and make my money back. Sometimes it's good to take a gamble!
It's now got Mule's in it and sounds freakin' sweet!
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i was under the impression that the r9's necks were between the r8 and the r0?
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IMVHO, Gibsons custom shop delivers a pretty consistend build quality, sound quality is a different matter though. I would not ever spend so much cash on something i havent played, however, im not the only one who thinks like this and that will mean you can get a pretty sweet deal on something like that.
Even then, i prefer the early 90's quality LP's, i know a pretty tempting white CS LP custom and for the 1700 pounds it costs its a damn lot of guitar for the money.
And anyway, my early 90's LP standard shreds anything soundwise, so if your more consearned with sound then build quality, just look around when you have the opportunity.
The R9 is an in-between version of the R8 and R0, it has most of the R0 specs but has a '58 neck. Most value for money would be an R8 if all is equal offcourse.
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thanks for the info & opinions guys
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Are you wanting a reissue as an investment, or is it for playing - or both?
Also, I'm not sure if you already own a LP?
If it's purely for playing I would strongly recommend that you spend time looking at other Gibson LP models other than just reissues. Yes the odds are that the reissues should be of better overall quality than a stock production model ... but I'd have some fun checking out a lot of 'normal' ones first.
You never know. You might find one that feels like a perfect fit - with tone to match.
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I personally can't imagine buying any guitar, regardless of the price, without trying it out first. I have bought a couple of guitars at the shop that didn't play right and I had it set up right there on the spot. I mean, why would you buy a guitar witout having it set up? They kind of go together don't they? Despite the fact that some of the online prices are intriguing, it's a real gamble to take IMO. Especially when you are talking about dishing out a large amount of cash.
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I hope you've got plenty of cash if you want an R9 - the upcharge for flamed maple is shocking. It's about £1000 :o
that's ridiculous. I don't mind charging a fair price for something which is more expensive, but that's just sheer profiteering.
The upcharge on my legra for a figured maple top was something like £60. Granted that was around a year ago now, but still.
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I know - it's crazy. £2000ish for an R8, £3000 for an R9 :o
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It's a crazy price .... :?
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Gibson are an bloody horrible company. They are just SO up their own arses, and the thing that makes it so damn irritating is that everyone plays along with the old "yeah, gibsons are cool. you get what you pay for" bollucks. I've never played a Gibson, custom shop or otherwise that i liked even nearly as much as my £180 Greco.
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Gibson are an bloody horrible company. They are just SO up their own arses, and the thing that makes it so damn irritating is that everyone plays along with the old "yeah, gibsons are cool. you get what you pay for" bollucks. I've never played a Gibson, custom shop or otherwise that i liked even nearly as much as my £180 Greco.
This reminds me of another thread.
It all changes when you find the right Gibson for you. After that you'll never look back.
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Gibson are an bloody horrible company. They are just SO up their own arses, and the thing that makes it so damn irritating is that everyone plays along with the old "yeah, gibsons are cool. you get what you pay for" bollucks. I've never played a Gibson, custom shop or otherwise that i liked even nearly as much as my £180 Greco.
This reminds me of another thread.
It all changes when you find the right Gibson for you. After that you'll never look back.
Indeed. I can see how it would!
I'm not actually putting down their guitars at all, as a few I've played have been of reasonable quality. It's just their arrogance and bad business ethics that annoy me.
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Gibson are an bloody horrible company. They are just SO up their own arses, and the thing that makes it so damn irritating is that everyone plays along with the old "yeah, gibsons are cool. you get what you pay for" bollucks. I've never played a Gibson, custom shop or otherwise that i liked even nearly as much as my £180 Greco.
This reminds me of another thread.
It all changes when you find the right Gibson for you. After that you'll never look back.
Indeed. I can see how it would!
I'm not actually putting down their guitars at all, as a few I've played have been of reasonable quality. It's just their arrogance and bad business ethics that annoy me.
That I agree with - particularly the bad business side. Perhaps this merger will sort them out in that respect.
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Double post....
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The custom shop guitars are now set up using that PLEK thingummy. Don't know that much about it other than it's done with a computer, but I can say that the setup on my guitar was perfect out of the box - low action with no hint of frett buzz anywhere on the neck.
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The custom shop guitars are now set up using that PLEK thingummy. Don't know that much about it other than it's done with a computer, but I can say that the setup on my guitar was perfect out of the box - low action with no hint of frett buzz anywhere on the neck.
that's very cool 8)
i gotta get me one of thems PLEK machines
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There is definately alot to be said about build quality, often underestimated i think on this forum.
The build quality of my 70's customs is par to none in their pricerange IMO, sure there are better ones, and even my LP standard sounds better, but playing those zoo LP's is just such a joy.
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It is still possible for custom shop guitars not to be up to scratch though. A friend of my father bought a Custom Shop Jimmy Page LP last year, and when he took it to the tech for a quick check a few days after buying it, there was a kink in the neck around the fifth fret. Curable, but it shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Whether or not this was Gibson's fault or the fault of a guy in the store thinking he knew how to set something up is, of course, open to question.
It's not just Gibson either. The same friend (he's a bit of a collector) bought a Fender Custom Shop 50s reissue Strat, which needed 60 quids-worth of fret levelling done to bring it up to scratch.
It's definitely worth trying things first, or if you can't, having a rock solid returns agreement.
I do agree about Gibson's current business practices - it puts me off their guitars more than any concerns about build quality. I'd rather have a PRS, Feline, Rob Williams or Nathan Sheppard guitar for the money.
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I'd rather have MIJ or PRS to be fair.
Modern day Gibson really suck @ss.
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By all accounts, the 70s ones made by Norlin aren't great either. Pancake bodies anyone?
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I love Gibson, I love to slag Gibson, or more accurately, I have a love-hate relationship with Gibson and Gibson guitars.
Since the Elder Days, even back in the mists of time when Gibson archtops were carved by the hands of actual elves, Gibson has had inconsistent QC. That includes pre-war models, classic '50's Lesters, you name it. At times, the problem has been less pronounced, but it has always been there.
At the same time, Gibson has made some ethereal instruments at all times in its history. Even during the worst of the bad old Norlin days, you could play some Gibson guitars and immediately hear the old elven magic. Others required a little work to bring out the music that was in them, and others plain stunk.
In general, Gibson today reflects the character of its management. Greedy, grasping, poor dealer relations, outrageous prices, cr@ptastic service, and guitars marketed to yuppies rather than musicians.
Gibson still has QC problems, all the way from the lowliest budget range up through the most expensive one-off super limited edition we really mean it this time custom shop heritage commemorative models. The largely hand made Custom Shop models are even more inconsistent, in my experience, probably because they are hand made. The same goes double for limited editions.
A good Gibson, however, is still a joy to play and to hear, and those guitars are still being made, in spite of management's best efforts to bar the Noldor from the factory. Because Gibsons keep their value so well, I would not worry about buying a sought-after model from a reliable source on the internet. If you don't like the guitar, you can always sell it for about what you paid for it.
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Excellent post Prawnik and right on the money. Particularly the elven parts. I often wondered how Gibby's were actually made :D
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Gibson went downhill when they stopped winding their pickups with unicorn hair and potting them in virgins blood, IMO.
Somewhere round 1990.
They were totally screwed when the elves moved to Japan, too.
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Rumour has it that the Elves refused to leave Kalamazoo as they liked the name better than Nashville (which has Dwarven overtones) and are still there to this very day.
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Yeah, and you know that if the Dark Lord Henry Juszkiewicz (CEO of the new and not-so-improved Gibson) ever catches wind that his secret is out, he'll make Gibson employees dress up in elf-costumes on the shop floor, complete with hats and pointy shoes with bells.
Then there will be a splashy press release about how the elves have come back to work in the salt mine.
At the same time, Gibson will raise prices.
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Indeed. I can see how it would!
I'm not actually putting down their guitars at all, as a few I've played have been of reasonable quality. It's just their arrogance and bad business ethics that annoy me.
i'd agree there. Most gibsons i've tried have been decent to good. Just I expect more than "decent to good" for £1500. :evil: Decent to good means around £300-£400 IMO. even at UK prices. :lol:
I know - it's crazy. £2000ish for an R8, £3000 for an R9 :o
and the only difference is the figured top? :evil:
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I know - it's crazy. £2000ish for an R8, £3000 for an R9 :o
and the only difference is the figured top? :evil:
Then again, I was reading today that PRS charge an extra £300 for bird inlays. And the only additional cost to them is a few more minutes on the CNC router and some bits of abalone shell (must admit I have no idea how much abalone costs).
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i have no idea either but i'm guessing it's not £300. :lol:
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It's not. Well, you could buy £300 worth, but that's not exactly the point.
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Indeed. I can see how it would!
I'm not actually putting down their guitars at all, as a few I've played have been of reasonable quality. It's just their arrogance and bad business ethics that annoy me.
i'd agree there. Most gibsons i've tried have been decent to good. Just I expect more than "decent to good" for £1500. :evil: Decent to good means around £300-£400 IMO. even at UK prices. :lol:
I know - it's crazy. £2000ish for an R8, £3000 for an R9 :o
and the only difference is the figured top? :evil:
I paid £800 for POOR...sold pretty quickly.
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Rumour has it that the Elves refused to leave Kalamazoo as they liked the name better than Nashville (which has Dwarven overtones) and are still there to this very day.
Zoo gibsons are the shanizzle of elven craftmanship, allthough some elves remained at Kalamazoo and continued under a different brandname, the big Mojo elf had left and there was noone to do the magic shanizzle incantation anymore...... :cry: :roll:
The Nashville dwarves are lumberjacks...... :lol:
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It's not. Well, you could buy £300 worth, but that's not exactly the point.
yeah i know, lol. i mean the amount they'd need for the inlays on one guitar. :lol:
I paid £800 for POOR...sold pretty quickly.
dang, what'd you buy?
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maybe Elvis was one of them Elves........
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I might be wrong on this, but if PRS can get punters to pay £300 quid for "Birds", fair play to them. That kind of pointless decoration just irritates me.
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I might be wrong on this, but if PRS can get punters to pay £300 quid for "Birds", fair play to them.
Oh yeah, I agree - I wouldn't pay for them, but people obviously will.
Like the £10,000 (or whatever) for a Private Stock guitar discussed earlier, there doesn't need to be a justification for the price, it's a simple matter of "how much are people prepared to pay?".
It's a bit like the well-worn debate over whether Premier League footballers "earn" £50K a week. It's irrelevant whether they do or not, it's dictated by market forces - they're "worth" what their clubs are prepared to pay them.
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I might be wrong on this, but if PRS can get punters to pay £300 quid for "Birds", fair play to them.
Oh yeah, I agree - I wouldn't pay for them, but people obviously will.
Like the £10,000 (or whatever) for a Private Stock guitar discussed earlier, there doesn't need to be a justification for the price, it's a simple matter of "how much are people prepared to pay?".
It's a bit like the well-worn debate over whether Premier League footballers "earn" £50K a week. It's irrelevant whether they do or not, it's dictated by market forces - they're "worth" what their clubs are prepared to pay them.
Exactly!
However, if looked after a guitar may (like a famous violin) appreciate, whereas a footballer withers with drink and drugs :)
And a guitar does NOT come with a hideously tacky wife :P
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However, if looked after a guitar may (like a famous violin) appreciate, whereas a footballer withers with drink and drugs :)
And a guitar does NOT come with a hideously tacky wife :P
...or a gigantic new-build Cheshire mansion with a cheesy "Roman spa" indoor pool, an enormous never-used kitchen, 50-inch plasma screens in every room and four gas-guzzling SUVs parked in the stupidly wide drive.
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Sorry to pimp my own point, but I want to see the Tennessee rednecks working the Gibson plant forced to dress up in elfsuits at pain of losing their jobs. I want the video on YouTube.
The inevitable price increase, not so much.
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I might be wrong on this, but if PRS can get punters to pay £300 quid for "Birds", fair play to them.
Oh yeah, I agree - I wouldn't pay for them, but people obviously will.
Like the £10,000 (or whatever) for a Private Stock guitar discussed earlier, there doesn't need to be a justification for the price, it's a simple matter of "how much are people prepared to pay?".
It's a bit like the well-worn debate over whether Premier League footballers "earn" £50K a week. It's irrelevant whether they do or not, it's dictated by market forces - they're "worth" what their clubs are prepared to pay them.
I disagree. I might be willing (for sake of agument) to pay, say, £50 for the inlays, but not £300. The idiots inflating the prices are inflating the prices for everyone.
and it's not like the non-fancy-inlay PRSs are dirt cheap.
I guess i just disagree with the paradigm of capitalism which says you can charge what you can get away with... seems to be rewarding chancers to me.
i know (if i could make guitars lol) that i wouldn't have the neck on me to ask £300 for bird inlays, or £1000 for a fancier maple top when i know how much they're actually worth. i just don't see why we should be rewarding people who do have the audacity to do so.
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I guess i just disagree with the paradigm of capitalism which says you can charge what you can get away with... seems to be rewarding chancers to me.
I agree, Dave. I wasn't arguing the case in favour of over-inflated prices and over-inflated incomes.
Just saying that's the way it is.
There are people in the world who will happily pay more for something as some kind of status symbol. I remember watching a programme about "Britain's Richest People" (you know, one of those trashy ITV2 things). There was some orange-skinned, steroid-abusing tw@t who only dated glamour models, had the only Black American Express card in England (or something), had a watch identical to David Beckham's (or George Clooney's, or somebody's)... but with extra diamonds. Etc, etc.
Anyway, at one point this clown went to his tailor's to get a suit made. They had some material with pinstripes made of real gold, but when they told him the price he just looked dismayed asked if they had something more expensive! :roll:
And that's the sort of person who pays £300 for his bird inlays and £1,000 for an extra "A" on the grade of his maple top. Probably.
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Philly/Dave, although I wholeheartedly agree with you for the most part I would like to interject somthing else.
Being brought up in the family/family biz that I was I ALWAYS consider resale.
With this in mind, most people 'expect' a PRS to have birds (signature really). So this obviously helps resale. Also, although the MSRP is 300 sheckles that does not translate to price paid in my exp., just another take on what can be viewed as 'pricey and useless upgrades'.