Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 12:10:55 AM

Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 12:10:55 AM
Normally, I can't bring myself to think about shelling that much cash on a single pickup (or a pair, whatevs) but lately I'm getting less and less happy with my Fernandes Ravelle.

Not the instrument itself, it's perfection for me - mahogany body, nicely weighted, mahogany neck, rosewood board, 5A grade flamed maple top, grover tuners and TOM bridge. Pair of Duncans - JB in the bridge and a Jazz in the neck.

Playing through a nice board of pedals into a JCM900 4100 head (running at 50W) through a 1936 2x12 with a pair of V30's in.

Now, they have ALWAYS been fine for me but since I got my amp retubed, everythings gone a little off-centre. The sound was always balanced for me - the trebley pickups, the bassy bodywood and the middy amp worked well together but now the overall sound is WAY more trebley and its sounding pretty thin. When I plug my Strat in (with Lace Sensors in) it all clicks, it sounds "me" but when I use the Ravelle I find myself needing to twiddle the knobs (heh) to see if I can correct it.

I'm happy with the guitar and amp. I think the easiest link to repair is the pickups.

So, the JB is quite a hot pickup at 16K, T8:M6:B5 and features an alnico 5 magnet... what would the natural BKP replacement be?

I play alternative rock, grunge influenced and I use a high gain amp so something quite hot seems appropriate but I want a fuller sound. I'm more concerned with the bridge at first although, natch, a pair would be better...

Holydiver? Cold Sweat? Miracle Man?

I kinda have trouble choosing from the website because I find the EQ-examples that SD and Dimarzio give to be really helpful. Any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated... maybe someone who has a similar setup like a mahog/mahog/rosewood guitar into a high gain amp?

 8)
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Will on January 30, 2008, 12:31:00 AM
I would try HD, I have been meaning to put mine in my LP actually, if I have free time in the near future, I shall try and do it in time to comment
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: _tom_ on January 30, 2008, 01:09:38 AM
I think I read somewhere that the Rebel Yell and the newest version of the Holy Diver are based around the JB. I think the Holy Diver is meant to be the fattest/warmest of the two so I guess if you want to thicken up your guitar thats the way forwards. Of course in a Les Paul style guitar Mules always sound good, but I guess you want more output.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 01:54:09 AM
I've found Nailbombs are awesome for alt rock type stuff.

That said, having a high gain amp surely means that you can sacrifice a little output and get the added sensitivity and clarity of lower-output pickups... Worth a thought, though until I get my VHII in the next couple of days, I'm a stranger to the more vintage BKs.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: ericsabbath on January 30, 2008, 07:47:01 AM
holy diver or nailbomb

what tubes did you install?
you could try JJ tubes in the preamp to darken up the amp (they have more gain too)
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: _tom_
I think I read somewhere that the Rebel Yell and the newest version of the Holy Diver are based around the JB. I think the Holy Diver is meant to be the fattest/warmest of the two so I guess if you want to thicken up your guitar thats the way forwards. Of course in a Les Paul style guitar Mules always sound good, but I guess you want more output.


Both of those interest me, a lot. And yarg, I'm a gain whore so I need more output, heh.

Quote from: Nolly
I've found Nailbombs are awesome for alt rock type stuff.

That said, having a high gain amp surely means that you can sacrifice a little output and get the added sensitivity and clarity of lower-output pickups... Worth a thought, though until I get my VHII in the next couple of days, I'm a stranger to the more vintage BKs.


Nailbomb, eh? Good overdriven AND clean? Not muddy?

Quote from: Eric Hellstyle
holy diver or nailbomb

what tubes did you install?
you could try JJ tubes in the preamp to darken up the amp (they have more gain too)


*chalks up one more vote for each of them*

I just went with what the amp already had in as standard - Sovtek ECC83's in the pre-amp and 5881's in the power-amp. I do wanna get JJ's in there at some point but I'm too bloody broke at the mo.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 08:57:32 AM
Quote from: Mr Ed
Nailbomb, eh? Good overdriven AND clean? Not muddy?


Yep! Probably the most versatile of the contemporary BKs.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: badgermark on January 30, 2008, 09:00:32 AM
I vote HD, as usual...

Mine is the 16k Alnico version, and it's so freaking awesome. Lovely clean tones too. Seriously good clean actually. Not as dark as some people describe it though, then again I used mine in a Strat, dunno how mahogany would affect it.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: Nolly
Quote from: Mr Ed
Nailbomb, eh? Good overdriven AND clean? Not muddy?


Yep! Probably the most versatile of the contemporary BKs.


Hmmmmm, cheers. I think the Nailbomb (maybe with a Cold Sweat neck?) has taken the lead.

ALSO, additional question, would the pickup being covered make a difference? I read somewhere once that covers apparently round off the treble a little?
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 09:15:45 AM
Yes, thats right. Covered pickups are just a little, tiny bit less sharp.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 09:17:50 AM
I wonders if maybe a covered Nailbomb and an uncovered Cold Sweat would be a boneriffic combo... or is it really not that noticeable or make that much of a difference?
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 09:21:00 AM
If you dont play covered and uncovered of the same type one after the other you wont notice.

Its like moving the prescence control from 6, say, to 5.5.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 09:22:41 AM
Ah gotcha, thanks for that. Most helpful indeed. :)
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 09:25:22 AM
Covers only make a very subtle difference, it's definitely there, but not something worth obsessing over.
Not so sure on the Cold Sweat. The Nailbomb neck is an amazing pickup, sweeter sounding that the CS, more PAF-y with very fluid and defined lead tones.

You really should run any decision past Tim, he is undoubtedly the man to ask. He always gives stellar advice, and I've never heard of anyone less than thrilled with his recommended pickup.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 09:42:37 AM
Quote from: Nolly
Covers only make a very subtle difference, it's definitely there, but not something worth obsessing over.
Not so sure on the Cold Sweat. The Nailbomb neck is an amazing pickup, sweeter sounding that the CS, more PAF-y with very fluid and defined lead tones.

You really should run any decision past Tim, he is undoubtedly the man to ask. He always gives stellar advice, and I've never heard of anyone less than thrilled with his recommended pickup.


Already done matey ;) I was too tired to email him last night but I did it first thing this morning. And yeah, upon reflection, I think the ceramic in the CS might be a little much for me. I'm thinking an open calibrated (zebra) set of Nailbomb's might be in order - zebra for the bridge and reverse zebra for the neck.

And thanks everyone, a lot, for your advice. Tis appreciated.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 09:47:06 AM
No probs mate.

I don't think Tim puts ceramic magnets in any of his neck pickups. The calibrated neck pickup can be very different to the bridge of the same model.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 09:48:54 AM
Quite welcome

May the metal be with you.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 09:56:44 AM
May the alternative-90's-grunge-influenced-rock be with me.  :wink:
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 10:00:47 AM
You've gone over to the dark side  :o

There is still metal in you. I can feel it.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 10:07:24 AM
There's metal in me, fo sho, always has been... I'm just not good enough to play it properly, haha.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 10:12:33 AM
Get a bit of chugging in on the nailbombs and you'll come back to the light side  8)

Oh, nolly: the painkiller neck is ceramic. And quite superb it is too.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Twinfan on January 30, 2008, 10:13:40 AM
Quote from: Eric Hellstyle
what tubes did you install?
you could try JJ tubes in the preamp to darken up the amp (they have more gain too)


I don't find JJs darker in my amps - they're clear and bright to me.  It may depend on the amp circuit????
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 10:16:37 AM
Quote from: MDV
Oh, nolly: the painkiller neck is ceramic. And quite superb it is too.

Thought that might be the case. I'll have to try me one of those sometime then!
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: gwEm on January 30, 2008, 10:27:21 AM
covers may only make a subtle difference to the treble, but i think they make a much less subtle reduction in background noise.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 10:49:20 AM
Quote from: gwEm
covers may only make a subtle difference to the treble, but i think they make a much less subtle reduction in background noise.


What's that you say? Covers could reduce hum and shiz a little?

I think I'd get uncovered, I quite fancy it now I've said it. :D
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 11:03:01 AM
Forget "now I've said it"... more like now I've SEEN it thanks to a quick chop-shop cut and paste job!

(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2153/ravellewithzebrastc5.gif)

*pees a little with glee*
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 11:14:51 AM
That guitar is horrible.

Give it to me and I'll see that its disposed of correctly






































 8)
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: gwEm on January 30, 2008, 11:17:32 AM
Quote from: Mr Ed
Quote from: gwEm
covers may only make a subtle difference to the treble, but i think they make a much less subtle reduction in background noise.


What's that you say? Covers could reduce hum and shiz a little?

I think I'd get uncovered, I quite fancy it now I've said it. :D


not /could/... they /do/ :) particularly with humbucker sized P90s

anyway, i dont think the improvement is enough to make up for the look of uncovered pickups (obviously in the case that uncovered 'fit' to the style of the guitar). i reckon that zebra coiled picture you posted looks great.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 11:19:38 AM
That guitar looks awesome. Personally, I'd choose to have the zebras the other way around though.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: MDV
8)


Oh alright then, you'll just need to pry it from my cold, dead hand first.  :lol:
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 11:22:45 AM
Quote from: Mr Ed
Quote from: MDV
8)


Oh alright then, you'll just need to pry it from my cold, dead hand first.  :lol:


Just wait till my shotgun LP is finished....... :shock:
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: Nolly
That guitar looks awesome. Personally, I'd choose to have the zebras the other way around though.


Hrmmmm, let's see:

1. Zebra at the bridge and reverse zebra at the neck...

(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2153/ravellewithzebrastc5.gif)

or

2. Reverse zebra at the bridge and zebra at the neck...

(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5223/ravellewithreversedzebrzt9.gif)

Hell, I'm bored so I might even do a poll... ;)

Quote from: MDV
Quote from: Mr Ed
Quote from: MDV
8)


Oh alright then, you'll just need to pry it from my cold, dead hand first.  :lol:


Just wait till my shotgun LP is finished....... :shock:


UH OH SPAGHETTI-O'S!!!
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 11:27:17 AM
I think nolly's right. I prefer the second one.

Its gonna be a 12 guage 12 string. And it aint nuthin' to fuk wid'.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 11:30:31 AM
12 gauge 12 string with gauge 12 strings on it!!
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 11:35:07 AM
Quote from: Mr Ed
12 gauge 12 string with gauge 12 strings on it!!


Oh yes. Now we're talking.
 :twisted:  :twisted:
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Lazy_McDoesnothing on January 30, 2008, 11:44:12 AM
With the metal part of shotgun shells for knobs and a trigger for the pickup selector.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 12:04:57 PM
Quote from: MDV
I think nolly's right. I prefer the second one.

Its gonna be a 12 guage 12 string. And it aint nuthin' to fuk wid'.


Yep, I'm sticking with my original call. Cream on the outsides is the way to go.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 12:09:35 PM
And a barrel for a truss rod, firing mechanism for a neck pickup and it loads in the electronics cavity and it fires whenever you compound bend with vibrato on the high e's on 22nd fret.

Aim it at hecklers or the bassist, whoever you need least at that particular moment.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Lazy_McDoesnothing on January 30, 2008, 12:24:19 PM
This reminds me of that movie The Bodyguard where there was a video camera that had a gun inside of it or something.  Keep up this talk and I'll have to call Kevin Costner for protection.  And after he takes a bullet for me I'll get on stage with the talkbox and sing IIIIEEEIIIIIIIEEEEIIIIIII WILL ALWAYS LOVE....YOU!!!!!  Then we can have a 40min jam and you can just shoot me now as this is getting out of hand.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 12:26:53 PM
Y'know thats quite a realistic scenario, because if I saw kevin coster I WOULD shoot him. While screaming "THAT WAS FOR WATERWORLD!"

Then "I-EEEEEEEE-IIIII WILL ALWAYS HAAAAATE COSTEEEEEEEEERR"
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 12:39:59 PM
I'm seeing the appeal of having the cream on the outside.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: PhilKing on January 30, 2008, 01:41:29 PM
Just to let you know the CS is neck DC8.3K Alnico V.  Also the both pickups are either zebra or reverse zebra in your pictures.  The neck and the bridge are the same, the designation applies to which coil is cream.  In zebra the screw coil is cream, in reverse zebra the slug coil is cream.  Since humbuckers are usually mounted with the screw coil to the bridge and neck, the pickups are effectively reversed when you mount them.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 01:46:48 PM
Unless you ask for them to be reversed in the build.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 01:52:39 PM
Oh, so I'd need to buy either both zebra or both reversed zebra?!

Which would it be to have the cream on the outside? Just normal zebra it seems.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 01:55:31 PM
Yeah.

I think so anyway.

Just order whatever one it is, and the screws will be in the right places.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
Just put in the comment box that you want want cream on the outside coils, Tim will know what you mean I'm sure.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Doog on January 30, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
yeah cream outside coils = normal zebra
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 08:57:03 PM
Wickedy.

Now, to hear what Tim has to say when he replies...
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 09:22:49 PM
Haha Tim must be psychic, replied a few moments ago and he agrees that a Nailbomb is the best thing - similar output to a JB but with slightly more bass and mids and an overall more organic sound.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Nolly on January 30, 2008, 10:09:32 PM
Yep I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the NBs.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 11:38:26 PM
Now all I need is the frigging money... seeing as this is something I NEED I'm gonna have to be skint for a little bit and throw £20-30 aside each week and hopefully get 'em as soon as poss.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on January 31, 2008, 01:31:05 PM
BKP's are definitely worth the money. You won't be dissapointed :D
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Scott674 on February 12, 2008, 04:53:01 AM
I like the creams on the inside...  I think it looks "Tighter" as the creams jump out at you over the blacks.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: JamesHealey on February 13, 2008, 08:01:09 AM
sounds to me like the culprit is your tubes and who ever installed them probably didn't bias them as hot as before..

hotter = fat and bloomy sounding.
colder = more agressive and thinner.

try stick with the original brand of tubes and find out what kind of bias your ears like, I like about 60% dissapation on my marshalls which is quite hot but not as hot as most who go as high as 70% which is the limit.

As for bkps, i'll leave everyone else to suggest that.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Mr Ed on February 14, 2008, 11:51:30 AM
Quote from: JamesHealey
sounds to me like the culprit is your tubes and who ever installed them probably didn't bias them as hot as before..

hotter = fat and bloomy sounding.
colder = more agressive and thinner.

try stick with the original brand of tubes and find out what kind of bias your ears like, I like about 60% dissapation on my marshalls which is quite hot but not as hot as most who go as high as 70% which is the limit.


It does have the same tubes in and the guy told me it was biased at about 50%, same as it always has done.

As the weeks have gone on, the sound has mellowed out a lot more and sounds more "normal" as the tubes have been broken in but I still really do fancy upgrading the pickups. The more I think about it, the more I realise it's worthwhile.
Title: I'm reeeally considering a BKP for the first time ever...
Post by: Yamhammer on March 28, 2008, 08:08:07 AM
The neck pickups are stunning!