Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Scotty477 on January 30, 2008, 09:29:48 AM

Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Scotty477 on January 30, 2008, 09:29:48 AM
I bought my Gibson Les Paul (Classic) 8 years ago (from new) after wanting one for about 20 years!

My guitar is rock solid, sounds great and I doubt that I'll ever sell it ....

But...

Given what I know now about other guitars and drawing from experience on a variety of different guitars I've played, I would say that If I were in the same position now as I was 8 years ago, I would possibley not buy a Gibson Les Paul.

Don't get me wrong. I love the one I have but I'm pretty sure ... scratch that .. certain that other - some less expensive - guitars are out there that will perform exactly the same and be of at least similar quality (if not better) than a Gibson LP.

If I was the fanciful, dreamer type I could speculate about going back 8 years in time and stopping myself from buying my LP. Of course my past self (looking much lighter and fitter) would object and quite rightly want me to give him .. erm .. myself an alternative to buying a Gibson Les Paul.

At this point lets fast forward to present day and pose the same question. What alternatives are available to buying a Gibson Les Paul? If you had say .. £1200-£1500 and wanted a Les Paul type guitar (or similar), with a mahogany (not basswood ..  :wink: ) body and neck and a maple cap, what would you go for?

I know what guitar I would select.

It isn't exactly a Les Paul shape but I would buy a Yamaha SG2000, or SG3000. The only difference is that they are double cut, which isn't exactly a problem.

Every one that I've played has been terrific. It doesn't matter if it's new or old, they are just solid and sound great. All the materials and hardware are as per a Gibson LP with the addition of being able to split the pick ups.

That's my view on the subject. The only thing I would add is that going back to the scenario from 8 years ago, my past self will very possibly still buy Gibson. Even after being told that it isn't worth it etc etc

Why?

Because it's a Gibson ..... and that is without a doubt the company's biggest selling point.

What other alternatives would you recommend to a Gibson LP, in order to get that LP tone?
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 09:40:38 AM
Fernandes, either the Ravelle (for a modern shape) or Monterey (for that LP shape) - all mahogany guitars, rosewood boards, good hardware and tone up the wazoo!
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Twinfan on January 30, 2008, 09:42:34 AM
Excellent post.  I'm in almost exactly the same 'place' as you.  I bought a new Gibson LP Standard 10 years ago with some inheritance money.

What would I do today?  Probably buy a used Gibson Historic LP if I wanted to go Gibson, or more likely I'd buy a PRS Singlecut.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 09:44:00 AM
I'd take that PRS Singlecut money and buy TWO Fernandes'. ;)
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: goddamn electric on January 30, 2008, 09:56:14 AM
Im looking to buy a les paul at the moment, why do i want one?because its a gibson les paul, ive always persuaded myself out of buying one in the past and bought guitars more suitable or that i felt were better but ever since i started playing ive gone through phases at least a couple of times a year when i want one, these usually pass but i always end up wanting one again. so ive finally decided i will find one i really like and save myself the trouble of looking for one for months only to stop myself from buying one for another 6 months! i cant justify buying a les paul style single cut without it being a gibson, even if it was a better quality guitar because i'll always end up wanting the real thing aswell.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: jibidy on January 30, 2008, 09:56:32 AM
With that money for a guitar i would get a damn nice ibanez prestige i reckon. As long as i had enough to get some BKP's aswell!
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Scotty477 on January 30, 2008, 10:05:05 AM
Quote from: goddamn electric
Im looking to buy a les paul at the moment, why do i want one?because its a gibson les paul, ive always persuaded myself out of buying one in the past and bought guitars more suitable or that i felt were better but ever since i started playing ive gone through phases at least a couple of times a year when i want one, these usually pass but i always end up wanting one again. so ive finally decided i will find one i really like and save myself the trouble of looking for one for months only to stop myself from buying one for another 6 months! i cant justify buying a les paul style single cut without it being a gibson, even if it was a better quality guitar because i'll always end up wanting the real thing aswell.


That's exactly where I was 8 years ago. I can't argue with your position because of that but I would recommend at least comparing some others with a Gibson LP before you buy one  :D
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Gizmo on January 30, 2008, 10:09:46 AM
I love my classic LP too but if i'd been a bit more knowledgable at the time I wouldnt have bought it. I love the rich thick tone of my LP and feel of the neck now it has been ugraded, BD + Mule :wink:

Likewise my Deluxe US strat.  The neck PUP on my strat is so sweet but recently i've been looking at PRS's. I know they cost a lot but the build quality is truely stunning and they're so versatile. Great LP and strat sounds.

Thing is though, its the name gibson and fender and our hero's played them. So even if we'd not bought them we'd prob end up owning one a bit later anyway.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Henk on January 30, 2008, 10:12:32 AM
If i didnt get into the whole Gibson vintage deal because i was totally captivated by a 50's LP i tried and which set the benchmark for anything to follow, i would probably still play something like my Aria Pro II SG model i had back in the beginning, exept for cr@ppy pickups it was genuinely brilliant to play/slap around.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 10:28:47 AM
I'd take my £1500 to a luthier and get him to make me a les paul that can makes people faces explode with one note.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 10:48:01 AM
Quote from: MDV
I'd take my £1500 to a luthier and get him to make me a les paul that can makes people faces explode with one note.


So... a guitar with a shotgun in?
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: goddamn electric on January 30, 2008, 11:03:57 AM
i thought about having a luthier make me a replica of a les paul, logo and all, (in the same way in which slash's main les paul back in the day wasnt a gibson) which would probably cost around the same if not cheaper than buying one of the historics and it would mean i could specify certain preferences. not sure how keen making replicas like that a luthier would be, or if its even legal in the custom guitar market, i'd imagine its not.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Twinfan on January 30, 2008, 11:07:37 AM
:lol:
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 11:12:07 AM
Quote from: goddamn electric
i thought about having a luthier make me a replica of a les paul, logo and all, (in the same way in which slash's main les paul back in the day wasnt a gibson) which would probably cost around the same if not cheaper than buying one of the historics and it would mean i could specify certain preferences. not sure how keen making replicas like that a luthier would be, or if its even legal in the custom guitar market, i'd imagine its not.


I could happily do ALL that apart from the logo, I wouldn't ever want a Fibson.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 30, 2008, 11:15:46 AM
Hmmm....
Well, the SG supreme has a maple cap... :)
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Scotty477 on January 30, 2008, 11:23:36 AM
Quote from: Gizmo


Thing is though, its the name gibson and fender and our hero's played them. So even if we'd not bought them we'd prob end up owning one a bit later anyway.


This is a key point.

Our guitar heroes very often use Gibson or Fender - particularly Classic Rock era/style. My favourite guitar players are Gary Moore, Neil Young, Angus Young, Tony Iommi, Dave Gilmour, Jimi Hendrix and latterly John Mayer. All of these use either Gibson or Fender.

With that in mind, is it any surprise that I have both a Gibson Les Paul and a Fender Stratocaster ? The only real surprise here is that I dont have a Gibson SG - yet.

I don't think I've ever seen any of the above list playing respective alternatives to their Gibsons or Fenders. Gary Moore, using a Tokai Love Rock or a Yamaha SG 2000? Gilmour using a Fernandez or G+L Strat? I haven't seen it but I do know that the tone from the guitars I mentioned will probably play and sound exactly the same as their famous counterparts - and probably cost less.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: MDV on January 30, 2008, 11:25:35 AM
Quote from: Mr Ed
Quote from: MDV
I'd take my £1500 to a luthier and get him to make me a les paul that can makes people faces explode with one note.


So... a guitar with a shotgun in?


 :lol:

Or on it, or at least the facility to carry or conceal one. Yes. That would do nicely.

"Enjoy this song. OR ELSE!"
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Scotty477 on January 30, 2008, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Mr Ed
Quote from: goddamn electric
i thought about having a luthier make me a replica of a les paul, logo and all, (in the same way in which slash's main les paul back in the day wasnt a gibson) which would probably cost around the same if not cheaper than buying one of the historics and it would mean i could specify certain preferences. not sure how keen making replicas like that a luthier would be, or if its even legal in the custom guitar market, i'd imagine its not.


I could happily do ALL that apart from the logo, I wouldn't ever want a Fibson.


Or a Gibender?

That just sounds all wrong  :o
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Mr Ed on January 30, 2008, 11:29:43 AM
Quote from: MDV
Quote from: Mr Ed
Quote from: MDV
I'd take my £1500 to a luthier and get him to make me a les paul that can makes people faces explode with one note.


So... a guitar with a shotgun in?


 :lol:

Or on it, or at least the facility to carry or conceal one. Yes. That would do nicely.

"Enjoy this song. OR ELSE!"


That's taking band-audience banter to a new level.

Quote from: Machinehead
Or a Gibender?

That just sounds all wrong  :o


Oh so wrong. Dirty boy.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Philly Q on January 30, 2008, 11:30:43 AM
Quote from: Machinehead
If you had say .. £1200-£1500 and wanted a Les Paul type guitar (or similar), with a mahogany (not basswood ..  ) body and neck and a maple cap, what would you go for?

I personally prefer buying cheaper guitars because there's less guilt factor involved, and I'm not a good enough player to "justify" an expensive guitar like a PRS.

But based on your original question, I'd be highly unlikely to buy a Gibson LP unless I could find a real lightweight, and I don't like the ones with chambered bodies.  A Yamaha SG is a great suggestion, but on the few I've tried I didn't like the neck shapes (very important for me).  A PRS Singlecut (or Singlecut Trem) would be great, but a bit outside the price range.  There's quite a good chance I'd go for a Hamer, they're beautifully made guitars but again I tend not to get on with the necks.

I think on balance I'd have to go the custom route, and get something that looked like an LP, but with a body at least half an inch thinner to reduce the weight, and a more user-friendly neck joint.  And I think I'd get it from our friend Mr Feline.  :)
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Twinfan on January 30, 2008, 11:35:38 AM
Machinehead - I'm a Billy Gibbons fan, and he's used custom built Teles, Explorers etc for years.

Plus he used Tokai LPs too  :)
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: _tom_ on January 30, 2008, 11:35:48 AM
I'd get an Edwards because I've heard almost no bad stuff about them. Either that or a PRS Singlecut but I prefer the traditional LP styling.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: blue on January 30, 2008, 12:36:30 PM
i've always thought i was seperate from the conservative, Luddite mentality of most guitarists.  however, what first got me into the guitar was Slash and, to a lesser extent Steve Clark with their Les Pauls round their knees.

so when i was finally in a position a few years ago to buy that proper, pro level expensive guitar i sat down to work out what i wanted.  it all boiled down to the perfect guitar being a Parker Fly.  i bought a flame topped honeyburst Les Paul.  Go figure.  :roll:

what can you say?  the Les Paul, and others like the Strat, Tele, ES335, White Falcon etc.  are icons of pretty much every genre of music of the last 60 years, and it's very hard to get that out of our heads.  even when we talk about newer guitars, we compare their sounds to them, "yes, that new carbon fibre and aluminium super guitar manages to combine Les Paul grunt with strat like spank".  they are terms of reference and they are at the heart of the music we want to make.

i still want a Parker Fly though. and someday my head will defeat my heart!!  :wink:
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on January 30, 2008, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: MDV
I'd take my £1500 to a luthier and get him to make me a les paul that can makes people faces explode with one note.


You rang...... :P  :twisted:
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: ilÿti on January 30, 2008, 04:15:48 PM
I love my Les Paul. I will never sell it, for a number of reasons. I'm too attached to it and the nicks, dents and scratches, that to me gives it personality, would greatly devaluate it. But what does value really mean when you're not gonna sell it?
That said, I will probably never buy another Gibson.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Dakine on January 30, 2008, 04:21:07 PM
Billy Gibbons is a SERIOUS collector AND has more money than GOD! So plays what he wants :)
Many of his guitars were/are given to him though.
Gibson/Fender and their Custom Shops, PRS, etc. and alot of Bolin. Not seen/heard him play a Tokai but very poss. He used a Houston Texas made Tele recently from Big Tex Guitars (simply as he walked into a local Houston store and saw it there).

As for Les Pauls. I look at it in a cpl. different ways.

Firstly, Mercedes makes a darn fine automobile but still have the likes of Brabus and AMG tweak/rebuild them.
That said a guitar like a PRS could be viewed as such.
Also, the LP is Iconic. Now, if players were not stuck on that maybe some 'forward thinking' would be more apparent with 'newer' designs/tweaks of the same type? A GOOD Les Paul is somthing to behold but I had to look loooooooooong and haaaaaaaaaaard for mine. Pretty much everything can be improved upon and recently I have much respect/love for my PRS Singlecuts. The style is the same but the lil things (like AMG do to the merc) are immense, like neck joint, overall QC, materials etc. Not saying one is better than another BUT I have found without question that EVERY PRS I have played/picked up is very consistant which is more than I can say for Gibson.

As for custom, it's THE way to go. Ya get a guitar made with the materials/finish YOU want and tailored for YOU! Only downside as it were is that it May cost more for this luxury and also (I always keep this in my mind as was brought up this way, with cars) the resale can be terrible as it WAS made for a single person who's idea's are obviously their own and may not conform to others.

Japan, as they did with the automotive industry, has taken a design and copied/improved it in such a way to make tremendous instruments that are as good as (if not better) than the original save 'that name' and offer great vfm.

Again, ya pay ya money and take ya choice  :D
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: dave_mc on January 30, 2008, 05:34:50 PM
Quote from: MDV
I'd take my £1500 to a luthier and get him to make me a les paul that can makes people faces explode with one note.


+1

Or more likely, since i'm more of an 80's guy and prefer things with floyd roses, would buy an edwards or tokai around £500, so that I could put the other £1000 towards something else. If my main music style called for a LP, though, i'd spend the £1500 on it. I'm certainly not saying those of you who would aren't justified in doing so. :)
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: the_bleeding on January 30, 2008, 05:38:57 PM
LP replacement?

well of course my eastwood is just that, but with double cut.
i also like the schecter tempest customs
and fernandes (duh), those are sweet guitars.
and right now my mockingbird special, theres nothing like that mahogany body and neck paired with an ebony fretboard. Its much brighter than my eastwood. My eastwood is a very mellow guitar compared to my mockingbird.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: noodleplugerine on January 30, 2008, 06:16:46 PM
ESP Eclipse.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: PoshCollins on January 30, 2008, 09:14:44 PM
Steve Steven's main white Les Paul with the Rebel yells.  8)
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: shaman on January 31, 2008, 03:38:56 AM
first and foremost, I am A LP fan...guitar and all...but another reason I dig them is the resale value!!!I have owned a few in my time, and I have either recaptured my $$ OR made a few extra....and that , over the years, has helped fuel my G.A.S.-I LOVE Carvin guitars...necks are killer....but try and sell one...not the same-so, that has an effect on my purchases
-however, Gib has gone more and more corporate over the years-no more Custom Shop orders anymore(at east for us lefties...) :(
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: keano on January 31, 2008, 07:21:50 AM
I own 3 LPs and a Goldtop like you and I still want more. I freaking love them. Now to add to the bunch I would get a PRS, or Ibanez, I got a Fender strat and wouldn't mind getting another.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Catalyst77 on January 31, 2008, 09:36:32 AM
I'm lucky!

I was on the verge of buying a £1700 1982 les paul custom silverburst last year (would have taken me a few years to pay that one off!).

Instead after a rather lenghtly debate on this forum I paid £210 for a black 1981 Greco Les paul custom mint series.

It is like the best guitar I have ever touched in my life!  When I took it to my luthier (lazy i know) to have a set of rebell yells put in he was creaming himself - it really is that good.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Prawnik on January 31, 2008, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: goddamn electric
i thought about having a luthier make me a replica of a les paul, logo and all, (in the same way in which slash's main les paul back in the day wasnt a gibson) which would probably cost around the same if not cheaper than buying one of the historics and it would mean i could specify certain preferences. not sure how keen making replicas like that a luthier would be, or if its even legal in the custom guitar market, i'd imagine its not.


The short answer: it depends on the luthier.  

Legality depends on where you are and whether you are trying to pass the guitar off as the real thing.  

Full disclosure: I do this sort of thing for sport, but with Fenders.  I know some people who might be able to make you a Gibson, but it won't be cheap.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Catalyst77 on January 31, 2008, 12:59:38 PM
Quote from: Prawnik


Full disclosure: I do this sort of thing for sport, but with Fenders.  I know some people who might be able to make you a Gibson, but it won't be cheap.



You'll be lucky to get any change out of £2000
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: dave_mc on January 31, 2008, 05:27:29 PM
Quote from: Twinfan
Machinehead - I'm a Billy Gibbons fan, and he's used custom built Teles, Explorers etc for years.

Plus he used Tokai LPs too  :)


true. see below...

Quote from: Machinehead
This is a key point.

Our guitar heroes very often use Gibson or Fender - particularly Classic Rock era/style. My favourite guitar players are Gary Moore, Neil Young, Angus Young, Tony Iommi, Dave Gilmour, Jimi Hendrix and latterly John Mayer. All of these use either Gibson or Fender.

With that in mind, is it any surprise that I have both a Gibson Les Paul and a Fender Stratocaster ? The only real surprise here is that I dont have a Gibson SG - yet.

I don't think I've ever seen any of the above list playing respective alternatives to their Gibsons or Fenders. Gary Moore, using a Tokai Love Rock or a Yamaha SG 2000? Gilmour using a Fernandez or G+L Strat? I haven't seen it but I do know that the tone from the guitars I mentioned will probably play and sound exactly the same as their famous counterparts - and probably cost less.


http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/ads/marshall-ad.jpg

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/frehley_tokai_ad.jpg

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/ads/tokai_is_here.jpg

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/catalogs/tokai_85-86_electric_front.jpg

:D
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Alex on January 31, 2008, 06:05:14 PM
Well i really love my ESP, but I also have to admit that there were reasons other than sound for me to buy.

For one thing, it was cheaper than a Gibson, especially considering I wanted an ebony fretboard model. But the big reason is that my back hurts significantly with guitar over 4 kg. I had an cheaper LesPaul copy and a BC Rich Warlock, both weighed a bit over 4kg and it was just not fun for me.

I still would like to maybe get a Tokai LesPaul and pimp it with some Bareknuckles. Or a Flying V, if I can't get a light Tokai.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/IMGP0060.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/IMGP0065.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/IMGP0069.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/IMGP0062.jpg)

I hope you don't mind the pictures, I just had the links here. I can remove them if it clogs up the thread, but I always like to post pics, haha.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: noodleplugerine on January 31, 2008, 06:06:24 PM
They are just... SOOOO Lovely.

Sound great.

Play Great.

LOOK GREAT.

Best Singlecut on the market imo.
Title: Gibson Les Paul: An alternative view.
Post by: Henk on January 31, 2008, 06:31:14 PM
I have been thinking this over, and the only alternative i can think off, apart from having a guitar custom made or getting a high end old LP, the only alternative would be to find that 1 and only true 'Me' guitar.

Actually i think that is what i have been searching for and since it is not something that involves looks but just a 'familiar feel and tone' if that at all sounds understandable. I have this the most with gibson LP guitars, still there is allways that 'but' which makes me search on.

This has nothing to do with the price or model, just with my own weird way of communicating musically.

The whole idea of putting a guitar together myself becomes more appealing the longer i think about it though, but somehow i never took that step because i fear it would be a great dissappointment. Still i hear alot of friends here saying its the best thing they ever did.....