Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Scotty477 on February 03, 2008, 10:55:28 AM
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The new Gibson LP Axcess looks very interesting indeed. Floyd Rose bridge ... contoured body ... upper fret access.
(http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/img/namm/2008/guide/Les-Paul-Axcess-Floyd-Rose.jpg)
http://www.zuitar.com/guitar/102318-Les_Paul_Axcess.html
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The fret access looks the same. I'll never like Les Pauls, me thinks. Only the looks of them.
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If it wasn't for the FR I would like the idea. Where are the springs :? in a hollow cavity that has been structurally designed for its acoustic properties?
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I'd prefer a Neal Schon Les Paul to be honest.
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I can see how the upper fret access is better, but... I'd rather have a tune-o-matic bridge than an FR...
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The fret access looks the same. I'll never like Les Pauls, me thinks. Only the looks of them.
The fret access looks to be far better? The neck joint 'heel' looks to be gone and that area has been contoured.
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I'm not a fan of Floyds, but I think that looks incredibly cool!
The neck joint and beergut-cut look very tidy. Maybe Gibson have finally got some new young elves who know how to work computers, and they've been taking notice of other websites and comments on forums.
If you're reading, Gibson folk, can I have an LP with a thinner body instead of a thick body with swiss-cheese holes in it?
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$%&#ING FINALLY GIBSON GOT WITH THE PROGRAM!
now they need to do the same thing to every other guitar in their lineup.. and add 2 more frets to the Vs
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#$%!& FINALLY GIBSON GOT WITH THE PROGRAM!
now they need to do the same thing to every other guitar in their lineup.. and add 2 more frets to the Vs
+100000
ABSOLUTELY $%&#ING FINALLY!!
Jesus christ - That's gorgeous.
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Vile.
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it may be the sexiest les paul ive seen in a long time
but the floyd cavity + these cavitys that will no doubt be there because its anew gibson
(http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/Chamber_BFG_2007.jpg)
(http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/Chamber_Supreme.jpg)
will make it sound like ass most likely
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these axceess are made at custom so they are not chambered, only the production stuff from the USA plant is chambered. custom is a different shop all together
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plus, thats the bfg.. the most horrendous LP EVER
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fair enough i thought they chambered them all
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nope , the custom stuff is still the same as always
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is it just me or is the floyd recessed, yet the string clamps overhang the route? :?
i don't really like that... floyds are awesome, but they just look wrong on LPs. My opinion, of course.
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Blasphemy. Thou shalt not put a Floyd Rose on a les Paul.
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Now they just have to do exactly the same to the SG, and slap on a Charvel shaped neck *drool*
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PRS should sue them for copying their idea of Singlecut Trem ROFLMAO :P
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PRS should sue them for copying their idea of Singlecut Trem ROFLMAO :P
+1!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
would serve them right.
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I'm sitting Firmly in the "cool - but would be FAR cooler with a regular tune-o-matic, and a real SOLID body" camp
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PRS may be viewing this Gibson with a good deal of apprehension. It would seem to be aimed at a market (single cut, mahogany, 2 x humbucker, trem) where PRS are relatively unchallenged at the moment.
Maybe sueing Gibson isn't such a crazy idea after all :D
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^
ROFLMAO PRS have been there and done that, so discontinued the Singlecut Trem for 2008. Guess they took pity on poor Gibson JK :P
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Gibson Custom Shop
Les Paul Series
Nashville, TN, U.S.A.
Available 2008 to Current
Standard Colors: Iced Tea Burst, Ebony.
Body: Maple Top, Mahogany Back.
Neck: Mahogany.
Fingerboard: Rosewood.
Number of Frets: 22.
Scale Length: 24 ¾ inches.
Options: Set Neck
Plek Machine Dressed Frets And Nut Slots
Single-ply Cream Binding
Acrylic Trapezoid Inlays
"Les Paul Model" On Headstock
Holly Headstock Veneer
ABR-1 Bridge
Lightweight Stopbar Tailpiece
Vintage Tulip Tuning Keys
Aged Nickel Hardware
Cream Pickguard
Amber Top Hat Knobs
2 CTS Pot Volume Controls
2 CTS Pot Tone Controls
3-way Pickup Selector Switch
Original List Price: 4351.00-4704.00
source: http://www.zuitar.com/guitar/102318-Les_Paul_Axcess.html
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Blasphemy. Thou shalt not put a Floyd Rose on a les Paul.
Unless your EVH.
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:D
Yes, I know that PRS have discontinued the PRS SC Trem but it's pretty common for companies to discontinue a particular line or model, only to relaunch it in a similar format later.
I fully expect PRS to do the same with the SC Trem.
The other aspects of the Gibson Axcess, that may cause PRS discomfort is the upper fret access and contoured body (beer gut access :D).
If Gibson roll out more LP models with these features, it will almost certainly bite into the PRS market share.
Will that happen ... Who knows? It's all speculation anyway and competition is always good for the customer in the long run.
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^
ROFLMAO PRS have been there and done that, so discontinued the Singlecut Trem for 2008. Guess they took pity on poor Gibson JK :P
haha i forgot about that. if prs reintroduce it, gibson will probably sue them!
actually gibson should probably sue jackson for making guitars with floyds on them. that'd be awesome.
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^
ROFLMAO PRS have been there and done that, so discontinued the Singlecut Trem for 2008. Guess they took pity on poor Gibson JK :P
haha i forgot about that. if prs reintroduce it, gibson will probably sue them!
actually gibson should probably sue jackson for making guitars with floyds on them. that'd be awesome.
LOL :D
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That is like a real hot chick, but then you look closer and she's got a dick.
Perhaps not the best analogy, but it serves the purpose of displaying my dislike for this instrument.
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Blasphemy. Thou shalt not put a Floyd Rose on a les Paul.
Unless your EVH.
As I've said, I'm no Floyd fan, but I've always thought Neal Schon's Floyd-ed LPs looked frosty-cool. Visually, I think it works really well.
That is like a real hot chick, but then you look closer and she's got a dick.
Perhaps not the best analogy, but it serves the purpose of displaying my dislike for this instrument.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Well you could look at it as an unexpected opportunity to try something different... :wink:
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That is like a real hot chick, but then you look closer and she's got a dick.
And your problem is?? PDT_014
Sounds like Xmas when you find a little something extra in your stocking...PDT_003
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That is like a real hot chick, but then you look closer and she's got a dick.
Perhaps not the best analogy, but it serves the purpose of displaying my dislike for this instrument.
LOL PDT_004
Well you could look at it as an unexpected opportunity to try something different... :wink:
You mean he should go for chicks with dicks? :lol:
That is like a real hot chick, but then you look closer and she's got a dick.
Sounds like Xmas when you find a little something extra in your stocking...PDT_003
LOL - I think it's good that we're still talking about guitar, lol.. or are we?
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That is like a real hot chick, but then you look closer and she's got a dick.
And your problem is?? PDT_014
Sounds like Xmas when you find a little something extra in your stocking...PDT_003
+1 xD xD xD
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(see sig)
Hopefully everyone will know who AD is. PDT_006
I demand for a longer signature limit!
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Well you could look at it as an unexpected opportunity to try something different... :wink:
You mean he should go for chicks with dicks? :lol:
Not intentionally perhaps, but one can keep an open mind... :lol:
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Jonny wrote:
Philly Q wrote:
Well you could look at it as an unexpected opportunity to try something different...
You mean he should go for chicks with dicks?
Not intentionally perhaps, but one can keep an open mind...
Its like this one time I borrowed this DVD from a mate....... PDT_039
I'll stop right there...
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Well you could look at it as an unexpected opportunity to try something different... :wink:
You mean he should go for chicks with dicks? :lol:
Not intentionally perhaps, but one can keep an open mind... :lol:
PDT_024 ... LMAO!! PDT_004
Its like this one time I borrowed this DVD from a mate....... PDT_039
I'll stop right there...
I have a feeling it was called: "Chicks and Dicks" but sadly, you thought differently of the title.
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I have a feeling it was called: "Chicks and Dicks" but sadly, you thought differently of the title.
I loaned Twilight & Davey "Baby's got Balls" at last years LGS.. and have I got it back? Damn I miss that movie... :cry:
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I loaned Twilight & Davey "Baby's got Balls" at last years LGS.
That's almost an AC/DC song title.
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I loaned Twilight & Davey "Baby's got Balls" at last years LGS.
That's almost an AC/DC song title.
Holy shitee this is hilarious!
I could imagine for Wembley,
' Tran Stan is the Man! ' :P
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I have a feeling it was called: "Chicks and Dicks" but sadly, you thought differently of the title.
I loaned Twilight & Davey "Baby's got Balls" at last years LGS.. and have I got it back? Damn I miss that movie... :cry:
i swear i sent it back!!
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I have a feeling it was called: "Chicks and Dicks" but sadly, you thought differently of the title.
I loaned Twilight & Davey "Baby's got Balls" at last years LGS.. and have I got it back? Damn I miss that movie... :cry:
i swear i sent it back!!
It got 'lost in the mail' :wink:
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Lost in the mail or lost in the male?
:oops: :lol:
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We should consult Pete Burns about this. :roll: :shock:
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To conclude and coming back on topic, this rather constructive debate has proved if you like LP's with an FR trem, you might as well move to Thailand....
PDT_006
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To conclude and coming back on topic, this rather constructive debate has proved if you like LP's with an FR trem, you might as well move to Thailand....
PDT_006
+1
If you like LPs with an FR trem, you like women with a little extra. PDT_003
Onto the next topic!
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To conclude and coming back on topic, this rather constructive debate has proved if you like LP's with an FR trem, you might as well move to Thailand....
PDT_006
+1
If you like LPs with an FR trem, you like women with a little extra. PDT_003
Onto the next topic!
A lil' more junk in the trunk PDT_028
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I really really really wish Gibson would quit messing with the Les Paul design already.
No! I do not want a Burger King Commemmorative edition Les Paul with a 24kt gold crown embedded in the headstock. 'Cause nothing says "rock and roll" like Burger King. :shock:
No! I do not want a Les Paul that plays .mp3s. Or downloads them.
Instead of messing with perfection, I wish Gibson would focus its energies on making Les Pauls like in the old days, before everything started to suck. Maybe if Gibson could get that right I would consider allowing Henry J to foist his cr@ptastic ideas on the world.
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Instead of messing with perfection, I wish Gibson would focus its energies on making Les Pauls like in the old days, before everything started to suck. Maybe if Gibson could get that right I would consider allowing Henry J to foist his cr@ptastic ideas on the world.
+1
My advice to Gibson would be
1. Dump the R&D team, they are a waste of space...
2. Employ better QC and pay them more!
3. Copy PRS' success in making the best production instruments atm (IMO).
4. Try and go back to the golden years of Gibson instruments.
This is probably a huge oversimplification of issues though, but it would be nice if it could be done.
In the meantime I'll continue to save for my PRS.
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Wow, this thread has taken a weird turn.
I'd rather see Gibson putting straplocks on their guitars than all that so called innovative stuff we don't really need.
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I'd rather see Gibson putting straplocks on their guitars than all that so called innovative stuff we don't really need.
I REALLY can't figure out for the life of me why they don't come with straplocks!
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[My advice to Gibson would be
1. Dump the R&D team, they are a waste of space...
2. Employ better QC and pay them more!
3. Copy PRS' success in making the best production instruments atm (IMO).
4. Try and go back to the golden years of Gibson instruments.
This is probably a huge oversimplification of issues though, but it would be nice if it could be done.
In the meantime I'll continue to save for my PRS.
I have a LP srandard in Trans black, it kicks the cr@p outta my PRS SC TREM the prs looks nicer, but feel and tone wise the gibson wins
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The PRS SC will never match the tone of a Gibson LP but to be fair I don't really think it's meant to. I prefer to think of the SC as a guitar in it's own right, rather than the obvious comparison with Gibson LP's.
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I'd rather see Gibson putting straplocks on their guitars than all that so called innovative stuff we don't really need.
I REALLY can't figure out for the life of me why they don't come with straplocks!
especially when theyre putting them on the 2008 epiphones
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[My advice to Gibson would be
1. Dump the R&D team, they are a waste of space...
2. Employ better QC and pay them more!
3. Copy PRS' success in making the best production instruments atm (IMO).
4. Try and go back to the golden years of Gibson instruments.
This is probably a huge oversimplification of issues though, but it would be nice if it could be done.
In the meantime I'll continue to save for my PRS.
cr@p no one said anything about a PRS SC. If I wanted an LP I would go MIJ.
I have a LP srandard in Trans black, it kicks the cr@p outta my PRS SC TREM the prs looks nicer, but feel and tone wise the gibson wins
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SC=different
SC245 cough cough cough ;)
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SC=different
SC245 cough cough cough ;)
Well it would, wouldn't it? ... lol.
If you copy a LP design and make it of the same high quality materials that an LP is made of, then it's going to sound like a LP.
It can't really be avoided to be honest.
On a side note I had a nice drool to myself over these pics of PRS's. Some beautiful guitars there.
http://www.peachideas.com/acatalog/Peach_Online_Shop__PRS_Guitars__New_lower_prices_and_available_online_16.html
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I'm going to get a Custom 24 if it's the last thing that I DO!
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On a side note I had a nice drool to myself over these pics of PRS's. Some beautiful guitars there.
http://www.peachideas.com/acatalog/Peach_Online_Shop__PRS_Guitars__New_lower_prices_and_available_online_16.html
I'd be sorely tempted to take the plunge now on one of those Miras if they didn't all have Wide Thin necks.
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On a side note I had a nice drool to myself over these pics of PRS's. Some beautiful guitars there.
http://www.peachideas.com/acatalog/Peach_Online_Shop__PRS_Guitars__New_lower_prices_and_available_online_16.html
I'd be sorely tempted to take the plunge now on one of those Miras if they didn't all have Wide Thin necks.
Not a fan of WT necks? What are you hoping for?
(http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/key/cabinet/itemimg11/img55294245.jpg)
So beautiful.. PDT_028
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Not a fan of WT necks? What are you hoping for?
No, can't stand thin necks at all, which is one reason why I have no Ibanez guitars (for example).
The Mira also comes with a Regular neck (which is a slightly narrower version of the Wide Fat, as I understand it). Shops seem to generally stock PRS with WT necks more than the other shapes - which puts my wallet at less risk, I suppose. :?
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There are so many new Gibsons that look so robot-like in my opinion. It's quite sad. I guess it's their new image.
Anway, I'd say go for the Carvin California Single. It will be made available with a plain top soon.
https://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/index.php?model=cs6
Thinner, contoured body with nocheese holes. Long tenon neck, and carvin usual many ridiculous options. Yes, you can have a floyd rose if you want.
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Not a fan of WT necks? What are you hoping for?
No, can't stand thin necks at all, which is one reason why I have no Ibanez guitars (for example).
The Mira also comes with a Regular neck (which is a slightly narrower version of the Wide Fat, as I understand it). Shops seem to generally stock PRS with WT necks more than the other shapes - which puts my wallet at less risk, I suppose. :?
You can always go to a shop dealer and ask for them to contact PRS to have a regular neck Mira, I'm sure it won't cost anymore but it'll take longer. That's what I'm going to try and do for a Custom 24, only that I want a certain color, lol..
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You can always go to a shop dealer and ask for them to contact PRS to have a regular neck Mira, I'm sure it won't cost anymore but it'll take longer. That's what I'm going to try and do for a Custom 24, only that I want a certain color, lol..
I wouldn't want to do a special order on something as expensive as a PRS. If it happens to be a dud (and even PRS must make the odd dud) you're stuck with it, or at the very least lose your deposit.
No, I'll wait until I find one I like. Guitar Village have one with a regular neck in stock now, but it's black and I'd prefer a different colour. :)
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I desperately want to play a Mira.
I want one too. But I'd have to be happy with the neck too.
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Instead of messing with perfection, I wish Gibson would focus its energies on making Les Pauls like in the old days, before everything started to suck. Maybe if Gibson could get that right I would consider allowing Henry J to foist his cr@ptastic ideas on the world.
+1
My advice to Gibson would be
1. Dump the R&D team, they are a waste of space...
2. Employ better QC and pay them more!
3. Copy PRS' success in making the best production instruments atm (IMO).
4. Try and go back to the golden years of Gibson instruments.
This is probably a huge oversimplification of issues though, but it would be nice if it could be done.
In the meantime I'll continue to save for my PRS.
No lie, Holmes, although I do not share your enthusiasm for PRS.
The problem is that I suspect that Gibson is making too much money on what it is doing now. The Gibson target demographic (middle-aged white men with cash to spend and a desire to re-live their youth) does not appear to be sated, even though Gibson keeps coming out with increasingly dubious concepts.
Here's a question: what was the last original good guitar Gibson has made? I am thinking the Firebird in the early 1960's. After that, Gibson has either tried (with varying degrees of success) to replicate old favorites (numerous LP reissues); followed trends (the Gibson M series shredder guitars of the mid-1980's); or produced utter cr@p (that "robot guitar," anyone?).
Actually, the more I think about it, even if the elves could be sweet-talked back to work at the Gibson plant, Henry J's ideas should still never see the light of day.
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The Gibson target demographic (middle-aged white men with cash to spend and a desire to re-live their youth)
Careful! That sounds uncomfortably like me. :wink:
Although to be honest, my youth was just as dull as my life now, so I'm not sure I'd want to re-live it. I was a bit slimmer and healthier, I suppose. :?
Here's a question: what was the last original good guitar Gibson has made?
The Nighthawk series had potential, if they hadn't used such idiosyncratic pickups. And to be fair to the M series, it was actually a bit different from everybody else's shred guitars - but they messed up the aesthetics.
But then most companies stick to a limited number of tried and tested basic shapes (Fender, PRS) - it's only the details that differ. In that sense, I don't think Gibson are much more guilty than anyone else - unfortunately they seem to concentrate on short-lived gimmicks and silly cosmetics (SG GT anyone?) rather than fine-tuning the basic designs and standards of production.
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Although to be honest, my youth was just as dull as my life now, so I'm not sure I'd want to re-live it. I was a bit slimmer and healthier, I suppose. :?
Great let's FINALLY get back on Topic...
Phily, old chap... do you fancy a trip to Bangkok? Hmm we can go wild in our middle age and meet some "ladies"... :wink:
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Phily, old chap... do you fancy a trip to Bangkok? Hmm we can go wild in our middle age and meet some "ladies"... :wink:
You could be right Dave m'boy, better late than never...
....but it does conjure up unfortunate images of those ITV2 documentaries about sex tourists. They all seem to look like Arthur C Clarke.
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/clarke.jpg)
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i sometimes wonder about this forum...
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Good lord...
I remember growing up watching Arthur C Clarke's "Mysterious World" on ITV?
That show used to freak the hell outta me...
Thank God I still turned out to be a well adjusted individual....:roll:
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i sometimes wonder about this forum...
Wonder or worry?
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Here's a question: what was the last original good guitar Gibson has made?
The Nighthawk series had potential, if they hadn't used such idiosyncratic pickups. And to be fair to the M series, it was actually a bit different from everybody else's shred guitars - but they messed up the aesthetics.
But then most companies stick to a limited number of tried and tested basic shapes (Fender, PRS) - it's only the details that differ. In that sense, I don't think Gibson are much more guilty than anyone else - unfortunately they seem to concentrate on short-lived gimmicks and silly cosmetics (SG GT anyone?) rather than fine-tuning the basic designs and standards of production.
You're right - a lot of Gibson designs had potential, but the details were flaky (the Nighthawks) or others were already doing the same thing better (the M series).
I am not so much interested in shapes, though, so much as concepts. A Jackson Soloist has a shape based on the Stratocaster, but it is a very different guitar.
The Les Paul Studio isn't a bad guitar, and it fits a certain market segment better than its predecessors (the L-6S, "The Paul", etc.) did but I am not sure how much any of these guitars really represent new ideas.
Then again, the superstrats (to give one example) evolved gradually as well. It's not like Grover and Wayne got together one day in 1975 and decided to produce a totally new kind of Strat, just as soon as someone would invent a practical locking trem.
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Personally I don't have a problem with Gibson experimenting with things like Floyd Rose trems and contoured bodies etc.
As long as they continue to make the models that they do, then there is no issue.
It was mentioned in this thread that Gibson should give up development and concentrate on quality control.
I'm pretty certain that the Research and Development and Quality Control departments at Gibson will have no crossover budget and will have very little to do with one another. Whilst QC should be tweaked it's vitally important to continue to develop as a company - no matter what that company is.
I'm all for Gibson continuing to go for new ideas. What I would like to see is an entirely new model aimed at the single coil Strat market. I know Gibson do a single coil SG but it would be interesting to see Gibson's take on a Strat based shape.
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The Gibson target demographic (middle-aged white men with cash to spend and a desire to re-live their youth) does not appear to be sated, even though Gibson keeps coming out with increasingly dubious concepts.
shite! I thought I bought mine because I've always loved music and playing guitars :cry:
Les Paul and two SGs for sale - anyone? Can I keep my Fenders and Ibanez :lol:
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Les Paul and two SGs for sale - anyone? Can I keep my Fenders and Ibanez :lol:
I dunno... show us pictures so we can see if we want to buy them! :wink:
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The Gibson target demographic (middle-aged white men with cash to spend and a desire to re-live their youth) does not appear to be sated, even though Gibson keeps coming out with increasingly dubious concepts.
shitee! I thought I bought mine because I've always loved music and playing guitars :cry:
Les Paul and two SGs for sale - anyone? Can I keep my Fenders and Ibanez :lol:
Me as well ... and all this time I just thought I wanted a Gibson Les Paul, since I was a teenager, because of it's awesome tone and rock solid build.
I mean how wrong was I ? .... :D
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Les Paul and two SGs for sale - anyone? Can I keep my Fenders and Ibanez :lol:
I dunno... show us pictures so we can see if we want to buy them! :wink:
Nah .... on second thoughts might keep them. Perhaps we could form a power trio with Dave or Philking.......
How about "Gerry and the Hat Tricks"...we could then condense this down on the album to "The Geriatrics" :band4:
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Les Paul and two SGs for sale - anyone? Can I keep my Fenders and Ibanez :lol:
I dunno... show us pictures so we can see if we want to buy them! :wink:
Nah .... on second thoughts might keep them. Perhaps we could form a power trio with Dave or Philking.......
How about "Gerry and the Hat Tricks"...we could then condense this down on the album to "The Geriatrics" :band4:
:lol: Dunno how Dave would take that, he's a mere boy compared to us lot, I think! :lol: Maybe Steve (Mr 38th) on bass?
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Maybe Steve (Mr 38th) on bass?
Good call - we could then make a quartet and call ourselves "Four Way Switch" :band1: :guitar4:
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Maybe Steve (Mr 38th) on bass?
Good call - we could then make a quartet and call ourselves "Four Way Switch" :band1: :guitar4:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Maybe Steve (Mr 38th) on bass?
Good call - we could then make a quartet and call ourselves "Four Way Switch" :band1: :guitar4:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Press Statement (for immediate release)
Due to pre-emptive creative differences and a certain band member's ongoing battle with Sanatogen addiction.
I wish to announce that I will no longer be associated with the mature beat combo - "Four Way Switch".
Please look for my upcoming solo release "The Volume Knob"
Thank you to my fans for your support in these difficult times.
Sincerly Dave
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The Gibson target demographic (middle-aged white men with cash to spend and a desire to re-live their youth) does not appear to be sated, even though Gibson keeps coming out with increasingly dubious concepts.
shitee! I thought I bought mine because I've always loved music and playing guitars :cry:
Les Paul and two SGs for sale - anyone? Can I keep my Fenders and Ibanez :lol:
Hey, I like and play Gibsons as well. I will probably buy another one soon.
All the same, you and I are just not typical Gibson buyers. Go to a Gibson messageboard and the median age is about 50.
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Personally I don't have a problem with Gibson experimenting with things like Floyd Rose trems and contoured bodies etc.
As long as they continue to make the models that they do, then there is no issue.
It was mentioned in this thread that Gibson should give up development and concentrate on quality control.
I'm pretty certain that the Research and Development and Quality Control departments at Gibson will have no crossover budget and will have very little to do with one another. Whilst QC should be tweaked it's vitally important to continue to develop as a company - no matter what that company is.
I'm all for Gibson continuing to go for new ideas. What I would like to see is an entirely new model aimed at the single coil Strat market. I know Gibson do a single coil SG but it would be interesting to see Gibson's take on a Strat based shape.
See, I would suggest that Gibson should stick with what it is (was) good at, for the time being, rather than try to be all things to all guitarists. We already have a Strat; we don't need another one.
Another way to put it - overextension and overexpansion have been the death of many a great company.
While the R&D and QC budgets probably don't overlap, Gibson should fix itself and its problems and only then consider expanding into other models that will also need fixing.
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thing is, Gibson don't see themselves as having problems. they sell their guitars by the boatload and every overpriced "limited edition" (fender too) sells out immediately.
it's only a small minority of people that think their QC stinks. read the reviews on Harmony Central, how many times do you see the words, "hey, it's a Gibson, it's rock solid!"
truth is, the majority of guitar buyers would see little difference in quality between a Gibson Les Paul, a PRS single cut and an Epiphone Les Paul. but they've heard of Gibson! and their hero plays one.
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All the same, you and I are just not typical Gibson buyers. Go to a Gibson messageboard and the median age is about 50.
Hey, we all get older! :) I'm closer to 50 than I am to... youth. And Tellboy's no spring chicken! :wink:
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thing is, Gibson don't see themselves as having problems. they sell their guitars by the boatload and every overpriced "limited edition" (fender too) sells out immediately.
it's only a small minority of people that think their QC stinks. read the reviews on Harmony Central, how many times do you see the words, "hey, it's a Gibson, it's rock solid!"
truth is, the majority of guitar buyers would see little difference in quality between a Gibson Les Paul, a PRS single cut and an Epiphone Les Paul. but they've heard of Gibson! and their hero plays one.
These are excellent points.
I said this before but it's worth repeating. The vast majority of Gibsons that roll off the production line will be 100% in terms of finish, build and setup. Yes there are some that could be better and that's something that Gibson really should put right.
I played several Gibson LP's in January, whilst I was trying out amps. Each one had an immaculate finish. They were setup correctly (not by the store) and they sounded tremendous. I think it was 9 different ones that I played. Some were Standards, some were Classics and one was a faded honey burst (50's neck) which was awesome.
To be absolutely honest I would have been happy to take home any one of them as they were.
I would agree that Gibson QC was pretty ropey when I was looking for one in 2000. The same thing can't be said in 2008, from my experience.
Perhaps we should take stock of things and actually try a few new Gibsons, rather than roll out the (admitidly deserved) jibes at the QC issues from years gone by.
What we need is reports on new Gibsons, maybe in a new thread.
You'll have to excuse me now ..... I'm off to the store to play that honey burst again :D
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thing is the UK can fit into Texas (just one state in US) TWICE, ergo think of amount of Les Pauls in stores there compared to here. Simple math and equations. THERE are MANY dud Gibsons still now.
Apart from that, NO-ONE should have to shell out about two grand for somthing that needs to go to a repair shop (luthier) before it's in excellent working order.
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thing is the UK can fit into Texas (just one state in US) TWICE, ergo think of amount of Les Pauls in stores there compared to here. Simple math and equations.
'Tis true, but remember the population of the UK is about 3 times that of Texas. Not sure about the comparative numbers of Les Pauls per head of population, of course...
And the population of the USA as a whole is only 5 times that of the UK. I'm not sure what that proves, if anything, but thought I'd mention it.
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what all twas getting at Philly is I can put my hands on over 60+ LP's within a 45min drive here.
I am NOT a LP hater (as most now I OWN one) but I AM a lazy/money grabbing/rest on past laurels/lets fleece people on past glories hater ;)
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what all twas getting at Philly is I can put my hands on over 60+ LP's within a 45min drive here.
Which I guess shows Texas does win on Les Pauls per head of population! :lol:
I could probably match that 60+ LPs, as it happens, but only because I'm a 10-minute walk from Denmark Street! I doubt the same would be true in the rest of the UK.
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within 45 minutes drive, i reckon i could lay my hands on, um, four! :roll:
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thing is the UK can fit into Texas (just one state in US) TWICE, ergo think of amount of Les Pauls in stores there compared to here. Simple math and equations. THERE are MANY dud Gibsons still now.
Apart from that, NO-ONE should have to shell out about two grand for somthing that needs to go to a repair shop (luthier) before it's in excellent working order.
I think you missed the entire point of my post. Have another read :wink:
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nope, think got it right.
You were saying QC is better these days when trying many. I say it's better than mid 90's but still cr@p in general for such an expensive instrument.
When I go to a music store I genrally pick up an LP guitar, usually Gibson as PRS SC are not everywhere. That said, IMO, most are awful compared to many instruments (esp. at price range) inc. finish, frets/ends,and general QC. Basically I am saying IMO Gibson have loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go in QC even now as I get to play a vast cross section of LP's locally.
Again, I own a LP BUT do NOT condone what the company seem's to be doing. I feel same way about Ford/Chevy/Dodge etc. etc. and drive a Toyota.
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Your close but not quite there. I wouldn't call 9 that many. It was the ratio of good to bad/not so good I was highlighting - and what surprised me tbh.
Of the 9 I played they were all spot on. Absolutely spot on I mean.
When I last did that in a short space of time (back in 2000) I think I only got 4 or 5 out of around 15 (ish) that were what I would expect a Gibson or any high end guitar to be like.
I'm tempted to out and play the rest of the new Gibson LP's in my city, which at a very rough guess would be around .... maybe 35-40 guitars - which I could get to within 20 mins.
What I was suggesting was for people to draw a line at the end of 2007 and see what Gibson are putting out now - and perhaps report in a thread here. It would be interesting to see the responses.
Maybe I just got lucky with the ones I played.
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I'm a 10-minute walk from Denmark Street!
:o Lucky so and so...
Or should that be unlucky..... :? :lol: :wink:
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I'm a 10-minute walk from Denmark Street!
:o Lucky so and so...
Or should that be unlucky..... :? :lol: :wink:
To be honest, it's fine for just wandering around looking at guitars generally - but if you want a particular guitar, in a particular colour, there's almost NO chance that any of the shops will have one. And if by some miracle they do, it'll be £300 more expensive than Coda, or Peter Cook's, or Machinehead - or Thomann for that matter.
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^ yeah. i thought denmark street kicked ass for trying guitars/pedals.
not so good if you wanted to buy, or wanted amps (even trying was awkward in some of the shops if the shop guy thought you weren't going to hand ovre £1000 within 15 seconds of trying the thing...)
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The Les Pauls I have looked at recently in Mansons (Exeter) seem to be very good but a lot of that could be down to the shop setting them up and perhaps cherry picking. Although I have always been a LP fan I would not buy one 'straight of the box' especially the price they are now.
P.S.
Due to pre-emptive creative differences and a certain band member's ongoing battle with Sanatogen addiction.
I'm OK now Dave - I just realised you're supposed to drink it and not snort it :?
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I share Dave's perception of Denmark Street. Lots of selection, but unless you are dying to buy right now and price is no object, don't bother.
Anyway, Machinehead, hie thyself over unto the Les Paul Forum. They also roast Gibson pretty bad over recent QC problems; it's not just us. Thing is, when Gibsons are good, they're really really good.
In fact, Gibson Les Pauls sold in the Japanese market (at least Historic models) command a significant premium back in the US over the exact same models and years. This is not because of the exotic-looking hang-tags.
This is because Gibson's exclusive Japanese distributor (Yamano Guitars) demanded, paid for, and got the right to pick out choice specimens from Gibson's output. Yamano only wanted the best looking, playing, and sounding Gibsons, especially considering prices in Japan and the reverence many there have for Gibson.
Unfortunately, Gibson terminated its relationship with Yamano as of this year.
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I'm on the LP Forum but tbh I prefer to post here. Some members can be very .... erm .... fixated on their rear end about Les Pauls :D
It's the same there though. The QC issue is retrospective - and Gibson do indeed deserve to get panned for sins of the past.
I'm suggesting that maybe Gibson have tweaked something on new guitars coming out of their plants - in relation to QC.
I agree that I still wouldn't buy a Gibson without seeing it first, but I'm basing that on previous experience outlined in my posts in this thread.
You say you've noticed an improvement recently in Gibsons as well. It may well be that shop is setting them up but again from experience some Gibsons from years back were way beyond the help of a simple setup.
Time will tell on this issue but it's interesting to see what happens.
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I'm on the LP Forum but tbh I prefer to post here. Some members can be very .... erm .... fixated on their rear end about Les Pauls :D
It's the same there though. The QC issue is retrospective - and Gibson do indeed deserve to get panned for sins of the past.
I'm suggesting that maybe Gibson have tweaked something on new guitars coming out of their plants - in relation to QC.
I agree that I still wouldn't buy a Gibson without seeing it first, but I'm basing that on previous experience outlined in my posts in this thread.
You say you've noticed an improvement recently in Gibsons as well. It may well be that shop is setting them up but again from experience some Gibsons from years back were way beyond the help of a simple setup.
Time will tell on this issue but it's interesting to see what happens.
yeah, the LPF members do tend towards monomania. That makes them useful but sometimes tiresome.
I don't remember saying Gibson QC has improved lately. I thought it was always spotty.
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Ah sorry Prawnik, I got my posts intermingled. It was Telboy that reported an improvement in LP QC.
The Les Pauls I have looked at recently in Mansons (Exeter) seem to be very good but a lot of that could be down to the shop setting them up and perhaps cherry picking.