Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: silentrage on February 12, 2008, 07:07:01 AM
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So I was sitting here one day dreaming about getting some BKPs when I get a job, and I decided to put down all the tones I would want out of one guitar.
The list got kind of large and the idea of putting 3 BKP buckers into 1 guitar naturally came to me.
So, is it possible? Would there be any side effects?
Has anyone DONE it?
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I have three BKP in my Greco Les paul Custom and my fenix cusom telecaster.
The greco has two rebell yells and a emerald in the middle, i can coil tap all three, the combinationas are truly awesome.
My tele has a riff raff in the bridge; stormy monday in the middle and mule in the neck - that too sounds pretty damn good.
Only problem will come from either your playing style; which may mean the middle pickup gets in the way; or switching between the inumberable different combinations of sounds available via push pulls (my greco) and a shed load of additional switches (my tele)
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I have three BKP in my Greco Les paul Custom and my fenix cusom telecaster.
The greco has two rebell yells and a emerald in the middle, i can coil tap all three, the combinationas are truly awesome.
My tele has a riff raff in the bridge; stormy monday in the middle and mule in the neck - that too sounds pretty damn good.
Only problem will come from either your playing style; which may mean the middle pickup gets in the way; or switching between the inumberable different combinations of sounds available via push pulls (my greco) and a shed load of additional switches (my tele)
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Interesting.
By coil tap do you mean coil split?
How many switch positions would you need for that setup?
I'm assuming Neck, Neck+Mid, Mid, Mid+Bridge, and Bridge?
can you do neck+bridge?
Is it possible to get nice cleans ?
Do the pups interfere with each other or does the shielding prevent that completely?
and lastly, since BKPs are notoriously tight, would that mean you could do rhythm with any 1 of the 3?
In my experience the neck pup usually sounds muddier than the bridge and is suitable for leads mostly.
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Sorry yes coil split.
Neither guitar has or needs any shielding at all.
All my guitars are wired to volume only so for telecaster i have six switches (bare in mind this is my studio guitar) And one master volume.
Each switch turns the coil off/par/series.
So combinations are endless.
With the les paul the most interesting tones come from mixing a single at the bridge; with a single at the neck and a the full humbucker in the middle.
All I can say is that all the cleans are great cause they are all BKP and alnicos.
Experimentation is the key.
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I want to see pics of this tele. It sounds VERY sexy.
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ITs my frankenbaby.
Like trigger I have replaced both the neck and body several times, so i have sod all idea of what you'd call it.
Its in pieces at the moment cause Ive just done a resprey (gone from black/blue/white stripes to orange with black stripes)
Will get some pics up when its all back together.
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TBH youre probably better off going with HSH or HH with splits and parralel switching.
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pics and some demos would be cool :)
Is there nothing BKPs can't do?!?!?!?
since you have been playing around with the tri-bucker setup,
could you please shed some light on what I'm planning?
I'm thinking a CS neck, ceramic Nailbomb Mid and Ceramic(possibly alnic) Warpig bridge.
I'm attemping to get a wide range of tones here.
Cleans I'm not too picky about what flavor, as long as they sound good.
Touch - good warm and smooth gain for 2 handed tapping, ie. Broderick, Adam Fulara.
Nice and fat blues / rock n roll tones, like GnR / snakepit, Blue Saraceno, Extreme
80s rock/shred tones ala Becker, Nuno, Gilbert, Kotzen, Joey Tafolla.
(I don't necessarily mean the tones these guys had back then, some of them have improved quitea bit :)
Some real heavy hardrock BLS / Wylde type sounds with all the extreme harmonic pinches.
Heavy, Tight, Crisp and cold distortions for 7 string, think Petrucci's Awake album and some of his tones in general.
Metal of all kinds, including the brewtals. Old and new megadeth (esp sleepwalker) , Priest, Lamb of God, maybe Rammstein.
I'd really like to nail some of the monster European powermetal sounds as well, I love Primal Fear's sound.
I hope I'm not forgetting anything here, but that should cover a lot of it.
Chime in please, all you tone gurus :)
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Richie Sambora had a guitar with 3 HBs. Is it now called the Jersey star or something?
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pics and some demos would be cool :)
Is there nothing BKPs can't do?!?!?!?
since you have been playing around with the tri-bucker setup,
could you please shed some light on what I'm planning?
I'm thinking a CS neck, ceramic Nailbomb Mid and Ceramic(possibly alnic) Warpig bridge.
I'm attemping to get a wide range of tones here.
Cleans I'm not too picky about what flavor, as long as they sound good.
Touch - good warm and smooth gain for 2 handed tapping, ie. Broderick, Adam Fulara.
Nice and fat blues / rock n roll tones, like GnR / snakepit, Blue Saraceno, Extreme
80s rock/shred tones ala Becker, Nuno, Gilbert, Kotzen, Joey Tafolla.
(I don't necessarily mean the tones these guys had back then, some of them have improved quitea bit :)
Some real heavy hardrock BLS / Wylde type sounds with all the extreme harmonic pinches.
Heavy, Tight, Crisp and cold distortions for 7 string, think Petrucci's Awake album and some of his tones in general.
Metal of all kinds, including the brewtals. Old and new megadeth (esp sleepwalker) , Priest, Lamb of God, maybe Rammstein.
I'd really like to nail some of the monster European powermetal sounds as well, I love Primal Fear's sound.
I hope I'm not forgetting anything here, but that should cover a lot of it.
Chime in please, all you tone gurus :)
I still thick HHH is overcomplicating it.
You could get what youre after here with a nailbomb or abraxis or cold sweat neck and a nailbomb or A5 warpig, or maybe even crawler bridge, with further variety in sounds from parralel and splitting.
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pics and some demos would be cool :)
Is there nothing BKPs can't do?!?!?!?
since you have been playing around with the tri-bucker setup,
could you please shed some light on what I'm planning?
I'm thinking a CS neck, ceramic Nailbomb Mid and Ceramic(possibly alnic) Warpig bridge.
I'm attemping to get a wide range of tones here.
Cleans I'm not too picky about what flavor, as long as they sound good.
Touch - good warm and smooth gain for 2 handed tapping, ie. Broderick, Adam Fulara.
Nice and fat blues / rock n roll tones, like GnR / snakepit, Blue Saraceno, Extreme
80s rock/shred tones ala Becker, Nuno, Gilbert, Kotzen, Joey Tafolla.
(I don't necessarily mean the tones these guys had back then, some of them have improved quitea bit :)
Some real heavy hardrock BLS / Wylde type sounds with all the extreme harmonic pinches.
Heavy, Tight, Crisp and cold distortions for 7 string, think Petrucci's Awake album and some of his tones in general.
Metal of all kinds, including the brewtals. Old and new megadeth (esp sleepwalker) , Priest, Lamb of God, maybe Rammstein.
I'd really like to nail some of the monster European powermetal sounds as well, I love Primal Fear's sound.
I hope I'm not forgetting anything here, but that should cover a lot of it.
Chime in please, all you tone gurus :)
I still thick HHH is overcomplicating it.
You could get what youre after here with a nailbomb or abraxis or cold sweat neck and a nailbomb or A5 warpig, or maybe even crawler bridge, with further variety in sounds from parralel and splitting.
sorry I didn't see your post when I was typing all this.
Wow I know some of the BKPs are very versatile but I didn't expect them to be THIS versatile.
Maybe it is overcomplicating then... but if there are no draw backs then the amount of possibilities beyond what I listed above with HHH can't hurt, right?
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I dont know what harm it could do, other than that I've heard that 3hb guitars can sound more compressed because the magnetic fields are crushed together. I dont know how true that is though.
Some BKs are astoundingly versatile. Crawlers, nailboms, abraxis's (abraxii?), VHII's, cold sweats, all have different strengths, but are very, very versatile.
Hell, you can even use a warpig for blues and rock and its pretty convincing.
Tap them, split them and wire them in series and the versatility goes through the roof. Even on the flame-throwers (and espeically on the med-high output A5s). Throw in a middle SC, push-pulls and a 4-pole 5-way and you can configure a guitar to do pretty much anything with the right choice of BKs.
basically, I'm just saying I dont think theres a reason to leap to HHH. Unless you have your heart set on it.
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Well, considering what you said, the only reason to go HHH now would be for the visual factor seeing as tone-wise it's pretty much overkill? hehe.
What about tone temperature?
In the clips I've heard so far some pickups sound distinctively cool/dark, such as the CS and CWP, and some sound much hotter, like MM and mule.
Some seem to vary depending on other gears, Nailbomb comes to mind.
So is that mostly determined by the pickup or the amp?
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All sorts of things
You have to remember when listing to clips, youre hearing the entire signal chain.
The pickups, in my experience, are very sensitive to the guitar they're in, then theres, as you say, the amp or modeller, the mic, mic placement, room, pre-amps, cables. Then there are different settings and playing styles to consider.
Theres all sorts of stuff in there.
In my opinion if its amped and miced up then the amp and its settings (including the volume) dominates the tone, the mic, mic placement and speaker each have a similar magnitude of effect as the pickup does (except in gain levels, but then theres the amp gain to consider).
Direct comparisons with the same chain are the best. You can understand the relative differences of the pickups then.
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I have to completely disagree with the 3 humbuckers only being for looks. I have 15 guitars of which two have 3 humbuckers. Ive moved the pickups between the 2 humber and 3 humbucker guitars and never noticed a detrimental effect of having three next to each other.
it all depends what your'e after.
99% of people can get any sound they are after from 2 pickups and you may well be one of those people. But if you want to explore the tonal landscape adding a third pickup can make a MASSSIVE difference to the range of tones available. - especially if you mix and match the pickups!
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OK, let me put it this way:
Name a tone that you require that was done/can only be done with a middle HB.
I dont doubt that there are more sounds in a 3HB guitar than a 2HB. It has to have more!!
But theres a big difference between screwing around with pickup combinations and going "Ooooh, the south pole of the middle pickup in series, out of phase with the north pole of the neck pickup sounds cool!", which a 3HB guitar is a playground for, and having specific tones in your mind that you want to achieve and going for a 3HB guitar to do it.
I think you can get a very good approximation of all of what you want (provided you have the right amp for the job: Engl invader or something equally versatile) with HH or HSH.
I think that putting a HB in the middle, with the different vibration profile of the string there, will certainly give new and fun sounds, but you may well find yourself moving away from the sounds you want: nearly all of which are neck/bridge HBs or singles: calling, therefore, IMO, for faily powerfull pickups in HH with coil splits, and paralel wiring for softer tones.
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Ultimately my (cop out, but do it!) advice is:
Take your list of sounds you want: give it to Tim with a blank slate for the pickup configuration (Make it explicit that youre willing for it to be anything, including HHH, but it doesnt have to be) and see what he says.
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I think its fair to say that no ones the same; hence this conversation.
However; with the greatest respect; if Tim or anyone else knew all the sounds possible usuable or otherwise and was able to accurately identify any combination of sounds either in your head real or as yet to be discovered I would never pick up a guitar again!
What if Peter Green had just tuned around and said oh well im sure with a tweaking of the eq and decent set of pups i'll be ok
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I think its fair to say that no ones the same; hence this conversation.
However; with the greatest respect; if Tim or anyone else knew all the sounds possible usuable or otherwise and was able to accurately identify any combination of sounds either in your head real or as yet to be discovered I would never pick up a guitar again!
What if Peter Green had just tuned around and said oh well im sure with a tweaking of the eq and decent set of pups i'll be ok
Well, of course. I screw around with different wiring ideas adn pickups to get sounds in my head or pleasant suprises. I'm just saying that, while there may well be fun tones to be had in HHH, I dont think the OP needs it.
It'll make the guitar easier to find (and easier to find a good on eat that!) at least
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I think its fair to say that no ones the same; hence this conversation.
However; with the greatest respect; if Tim or anyone else knew all the sounds possible usuable or otherwise and was able to accurately identify any combination of sounds either in your head real or as yet to be discovered I would never pick up a guitar again!
What if Peter Green had just tuned around and said oh well im sure with a tweaking of the eq and decent set of pups i'll be ok
Well, of course. I screw around with different wiring ideas adn pickups to get sounds in my head or pleasant suprises. I'm just saying that, while there may well be fun tones to be had in HHH, I dont think the OP needs it.
It'll make the guitar easier to find (and easier to find a good on eat that!) at least
Well theres always this:
http://www.rocknrollweekend.com/Mr.Horsepower.htm
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I think its fair to say that no ones the same; hence this conversation.
However; with the greatest respect; if Tim or anyone else knew all the sounds possible usuable or otherwise and was able to accurately identify any combination of sounds either in your head real or as yet to be discovered I would never pick up a guitar again!
What if Peter Green had just tuned around and said oh well im sure with a tweaking of the eq and decent set of pups i'll be ok
Well, of course. I screw around with different wiring ideas adn pickups to get sounds in my head or pleasant suprises. I'm just saying that, while there may well be fun tones to be had in HHH, I dont think the OP needs it.
It'll make the guitar easier to find (and easier to find a good on eat that!) at least
Well theres always this:
http://www.rocknrollweekend.com/Mr.Horsepower.htm
:lol:
I love it that "Its got the notes on"
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I think its fair to say that no ones the same; hence this conversation.
However; with the greatest respect; if Tim or anyone else knew all the sounds possible usuable or otherwise and was able to accurately identify any combination of sounds either in your head real or as yet to be discovered I would never pick up a guitar again!
What if Peter Green had just tuned around and said oh well im sure with a tweaking of the eq and decent set of pups i'll be ok
Well, of course. I screw around with different wiring ideas adn pickups to get sounds in my head or pleasant suprises. I'm just saying that, while there may well be fun tones to be had in HHH, I dont think the OP needs it.
It'll make the guitar easier to find (and easier to find a good on eat that!) at least
Well theres always this:
http://www.rocknrollweekend.com/Mr.Horsepower.htm
:lol:
I love it that "Its got the notes on"
lol, that's what those were.
well MDV and Ben thanks very much for the advice, I will see what Tim says when I actually put in the order. :)
and uh, I just noticed MDV you're the guy that ordered this very unique guitar from Legra, the one with the 5 piece neck and heavy swamp ash body. It's actually kinda what I would want in terms of tonal qualities, very heavy bass with tons of clarity. Coincidentally I chose CS and CWP for it too.
Have you got any clips recorded with that guitar by any chance?
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I think its fair to say that no ones the same; hence this conversation.
However; with the greatest respect; if Tim or anyone else knew all the sounds possible usuable or otherwise and was able to accurately identify any combination of sounds either in your head real or as yet to be discovered I would never pick up a guitar again!
What if Peter Green had just tuned around and said oh well im sure with a tweaking of the eq and decent set of pups i'll be ok
Well, of course. I screw around with different wiring ideas adn pickups to get sounds in my head or pleasant suprises. I'm just saying that, while there may well be fun tones to be had in HHH, I dont think the OP needs it.
It'll make the guitar easier to find (and easier to find a good on eat that!) at least
Well theres always this:
http://www.rocknrollweekend.com/Mr.Horsepower.htm
:lol:
I love it that "Its got the notes on"
lol, that's what those were.
well MDV and Ben thanks very much for the advice, I will see what Tim says when I actually put in the order. :)
and uh, I just noticed MDV you're the guy that ordered this very unique guitar from Legra, the one with the 5 piece neck and heavy swamp ash body. It's actually kinda what I would want in terms of tonal qualities, very heavy bass with tons of clarity. Coincidentally I chose CS and CWP for it too.
Have you got any clips recorded with that guitar by any chance?
I have but they dont do it any justice at all (due to my inabitlity to record things well).