Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: PeteyG on February 18, 2008, 12:31:40 AM
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So I'm looking at ordering my first Custom guitar at the end of summer, and as I like to do, I'm planning what I'm gonna have done now, so that by the time it comes to it, I'm 100% certain of what I'm gonna have. So basically I would just like to have all of your lovely selves to help me narrow down my options, I have a pretty set idea, but I'm still unsure, due to my inexperience in this kind of thing.
So you can get an idea of what kind of sound I'm primarily going for listen to this guy Paul Ortiz (he's amazing), otherwise, I play primarily techy metal, but am looking for a nice warm sounding tone, yet crisp attack and not overly harsh.
Ok so it's a Ran, 27" scale 7 string guitar that I'm ordering, super strat kind of shape.
Neck Thru Body & Carved Top
Body Material: Swamp Ash
Top Wood: Flame Maple 1/8" thick.
Body binding on top but not bottom.
For pickups I'm getting BKPs, humbucker in the bridge, and humbucker in the middle, nothing in the neck.
Neck Material: Maple 3P
Fingerboard Material: Ebony
That's the basic info I'm thinking of at the moment anyway. Anyone got any opinions on options which could be better for me?
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So I'm looking at ordering my first Custom guitar at the end of summer, and as I like to do, I'm planning what I'm gonna have done now, so that by the time it comes to it, I'm 100% certain of what I'm gonna have. So basically I would just like to have all of your lovely selves to help me narrow down my options, I have a pretty set idea, but I'm still unsure, due to my inexperience in this kind of thing.
So you can get an idea of what kind of sound I'm primarily going for listen to this guy Paul Ortiz (he's amazing), otherwise, I play primarily techy metal, but am looking for a nice warm sounding tone, yet crisp attack and not overly harsh.
Ok so it's a Ran, 27" scale 7 string guitar that I'm ordering, super strat kind of shape.
Neck Thru Body & Carved Top
Body Material: Swamp Ash
Top Wood: Flame Maple 1/8" thick.
Body binding on top but not bottom.
For pickups I'm getting BKPs, humbucker in the bridge, and humbucker in the middle, nothing in the neck.
Neck Material: Maple 3P
Fingerboard Material: Ebony
That's the basic info I'm thinking of at the moment anyway. Anyone got any opinions on options which could be better for me?
If you want a warm sound, I wouldn't go for Maple in Ash, I'd go for some Mahogany somewhere or other.
How much does this all come to anyway?
And what finish are you getting on this baby? :D
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Yeah this was stuff I put together a few weeks back when I was talking to Dariusz at Ran, I'm thinking of a mahogany carved top on a Swamp Ash body at the moment.
As for finish I'm unsure, it's gonna be the same kind of gradient/burst idea as this...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/omnium_gatherum/a1.jpg)
but not to silver, I'm thinking either to a deep red or a deep blue, probably the red.
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OH MY GOD I JUST CAME
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OH MY GOD I JUST CAME
+ over 9000
ash, maple, maple neck and ebony board is guna be BRIIIGHHHTTT
i'd personally try to break it up a little... maybe do the 5 piece map/mahog neck they have, and/or a mahogany body.
Personally, i'd get both of those features because even then, a maple cap, part maple neck and ebony board will be fairly bright.
now, for other features....
tuners: doesn't matter. Locking tuners are faster to tune, regular ones are regular...
Bridge, i'd do tune-o-matic and string-thru. Sustains SOOO well.
Pickup rings: none, direct mounted pickups have better sustain and mesh with the tonewood more.
For nut, i'd go with bone. Graphite wears down and brass is heavy and in some cases can absorb sustain :(
as for cosmetics (inlays, paint, bindings etc) and controls i can't comment because tyhats ALLLL you.
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OH MY GOD I JUST CAME
+ over 9000
ash, maple, maple neck and ebony board is guna be BRIIIGHHHTTT
i'd personally try to break it up a little... maybe do the 5 piece map/mahog neck they have, and/or a mahogany body.
Personally, i'd get both of those features because even then, a maple cap, part maple neck and ebony board will be fairly bright.
now, for other features....
tuners: doesn't matter. Locking tuners are faster to tune, regular ones are regular...
Bridge, i'd do tune-o-matic and string-thru. Sustains SOOO well.
Pickup rings: none, direct mounted pickups have better sustain and mesh with the tonewood more.
For nut, i'd go with bone. Graphite wears down and brass is heavy and in some cases can absorb sustain :(
as for cosmetics (inlays, paint, bindings etc) and controls i can't comment because tyhats ALLLL you.
All of the above except an Earvana nut instead of a bone nut.
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It's worth noting that Pete is talking about swamp ash rather than hard ash. From what I've heard, and from speaking to Doug at Blackmachine, they are two very different woods. Apparently swamp ash is quite middy and fat sounding, as well as being very clear.
I do think that a 5-piece neck is a good idea; it might be worth looking into woods such as rosewood, mahogany and wenge for the fillets.
And +1 on the locking tuners, tune-o-matic, and Earvana nut too.
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For warm and fat I'd make the body koa
To keep it clear and let it sing have a maple/mahogany through (bear in mind that most of the tone is from the neck. I'd say koa in the neck, too, but I dont know how well suited it is to it).
Rosewood board, obviously.
Just my 2p
I aint no luthier (I just learned a bit about woods, mainly from choosing them for my custom and therefore talking with a luthier (bob johnson @ legra: outstanding and outstandingly knowledgable bloke))
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^ i'd echo that (other than koa... have no experience with koa). mahogany and maple in the neck gives a good balance of warmth and tightness. though if you aren't going with a floyd, that'll undoubtedly change things a lot too. :) EDIT: i ain't no luthier either. :lol:
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i find it really interesting that theres more people suggesting rosewood boards here. I'm so used to everybody just screaming EBONY EBONY all the time hahahha.
I have a guitar with each board. (Both are mahog body/neck and maple top) and the ebony boarded one is much brighter. I also like its amplified tone alot more... but thats because my rosewood gitter has baaaaad pickups.
Also, i find ebony to be alot faster playing, its almost slippery. Lots of fun, but then again the rosewood board resonates better... might have to do with the type of mahogany though, because one is alot heavier and dense feeling.
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ebony's really nice, but as you say, a bit brighter. at least it seems like that. :)
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Yeah, I think ebony has a bit of a scream to it. Its got a sharp high end.
Rosewood is warmer and smoother.
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agreed. :)
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:D I would advice against having a Bridge, Middle no Neck P/U configuration. I cant see that this will create much tonal difference or sound difference between the 2 P/U`s to make it worth while. And you will need to be aware of a certain reality [ gulp ! ] There may come a time no matter what you think now today but a time in the future when you may have to or need to or just decide to sell this guitar. How many players will want a 2 P/U guitar with no Neck P/U ?
This will dramatically decrease your market and the value of the instrument. As for what woods, if you`ve played other guitars what ones did you like ? What were they made of ? what pots were in them ? What fret wire did they have that you felt confortable with ? As someone who has a custom made guitar [ Feline - Preacher] its very easy to get it wrong and end up with a well made guitar you actually dont like so take your time do your research correctly dont let others choose your woods inc members of this forum and try as many different guitars out as possible to help you narrow down the wide number of choices so that you`ll end up with a guitar you`ll actually like playing and will want to play. Go into guitar shops and try out different guitars so you can here the tones of the wood use clean sounds or slightly gainy sounds nothing to harse or it`ll disguise the tone of the woods and be aware that the P/U`s play a huge part in the sound of an instrument as well as the woods so think carefully about what P/U`s you want to get.
:D 8)
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My reasons for going with a pickup placement I've mentioned is purely because it's a pickup placement I like, I've played extensively on guitars with this kind of pickup placement and the varying in tone that I do get, I quite simply prefer to that of a neck pickup. And by the by, I'm never selling any of my guitars, I'll happily sell amps, I'll happily sell my body to the highest bidder before selling my guitars, it's simply something that'll never happen, as much as you feel it might ;)
And I'm not letting anyone here choose my woods for me, I'm just looking to hear from other peoples' experiences with the various woods and hearing what their opinions on them are so that I can get a chance to atleast learn about the basic tonal qualities of them all.
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My personal opinion on the guitars config is:
GET WHAT YOU@LL BE HAPPY WITH.
Dont think about selling it on when youre buying it. Asside from anything else, you wont be the only person that'll like it: you would find a buyer eventually.
In the mean time you dont want to be sitting there playing a guitar thinking "I wonder what it wouldve sounded like if I got what I really wanted???"!!!
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Get what YOU want, not what some prospective buyer wants.
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I agree, if you get what may nab you a slightly higher price, you probably increase the chances of having to sell on later. if you aren't going to sell on, resale value doesn't matter. (though of course you never know if you may be forced to sell on, which can be a shame)
of course, you probably don't want to order one with giant hannah montana (or whatever she's called) custom graphics on it or something.
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:D Dont get me wrong here guys.
Nobody gets a custom build with the intention of selling it on at some point, me included. I`m just making you aware that you never know whats around the corner. As it goes i really liked the look of the guitar you put up it looks great. As for the woods debate. There were more & more people chipping in with suggestions it was starting to run round in circles !
Check out the Warmoth site theres a great bit on it about woods telling you what you need to know. Also talk to your builder. Be honest about what you want he will have a much better idea. There are some great guys on these boards here Bob Johnson, Johnathon Law-[Feline] both Luthiers will give advice if you ask, just PM them. As for custom graphics or paint jobs i personnally disagree, i think anything that helps your guitar look distinctive and good is allways a good idea, but thats a personal opinion. As for P/U choice.Your right of course its your guitar & your paying for it so get what you want and that you`ll be happy with. But like i said be carefull dont rush because your getting excited, its easy to get it wrong. Every player i know that had a custom build ended up selling it as they realised they`d got it wrong.
:D 8)
http://www.warmoth.com/
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:D Dont get me wrong here guys.
Nobody gets a custom build with the intention of selling it on at some point, me included. I`m just making you aware that you never know whats around the corner. As it goes i really liked the look of the guitar you put up it looks great. As for the woods debate. There were more & more people chipping in with suggestions it was starting to run round in circles !
Check out the Warmoth site theres a great bit on it about woods telling you what you need to know. Also talk to your builder. Be honest about what you want he will have a much better idea. There are some great guys on these boards here Bob Johnson, Johnathon Law-[Feline] both Luthiers will give advice if you ask, just PM them. As for custom graphics or paint jobs i personnally disagree, i think anything that helps your guitar look distinctive and good is allways a good idea, but thats a personal opinion. As for P/U choice.Your right of course its your guitar & your paying for it so get what you want and that you`ll be happy with. But like i said be carefull dont rush because your getting excited, its easy to get it wrong. Every player i know that had a custom build ended up selling it as they realised they`d got it wrong.
:D 8)
http://www.warmoth.com/
Don't forget Wez!
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:D Yes or absolutly right ! Sorry Wez :wink:
:D 8)
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arh dont worry, bob and jonathan have both been doing this a lot longer than me!!!
the best thing is to have a good idea of what exactly you want and why you want it and be willing to investigate other ideas any luthier may give you.
i would do it with a maple through neck and swamp ash wings like the original post and i would stick with the ebony board (or my favorite - ziracote) because although its not a combo i would do on a nomral guitar the extra clarity (some would say brightness) from the maple and ebony will help a lot with the low notes on a 27" scale 7 string - i'm guessing this things gonna spend most of its life detuned. i would also consider making it fanned fret - possibly 27 1/2 on the bass and 26 on the treble.
one thing i did notice on the spec - you say 1/8" maple top and you also say carved top. a traditional carve needs a lot more maple than that and will add a bit more mapleyness to the sound. 1/8" is thin enough that it wont influence the sound to much. with a thicker maple cap needed for the carve i would consider adding something like mahogany to the neck sandwich - really depends if the maple goes over the neck section. if its just a cap on the wings with the neck section still visable its less of an issue
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:D Dont get me wrong here guys.
Nobody gets a custom build with the intention of selling it on at some point, me included. I`m just making you aware that you never know whats around the corner. As it goes i really liked the look of the guitar you put up it looks great. As for the woods debate. There were more & more people chipping in with suggestions it was starting to run round in circles !
agreed :)
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It'll generally stick in a pretty standard 7 string tuning to be fair, I like detuning my sixers to a somewhat ridiculous amount, but I'd stick to keeping it pretty standard on a 7 :)
Yeah the brightness in the neck is what I was hoping to use to counteract the otherwise very low end of a 27" scale instrument. I'm glad there are some luthiers on a forum like this, willing to give up their experiences to humble know nothing guys like myself, hah.
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Personally I would look at finding a luthier that you'll be happy to work with first. Then flop out some money and start discussing it with them.
Chances are that they'll be able to advise you far better than a load of blokes off a forum. I know that the blokes here are very knowledgable, but it's easy to end up with unsolicited info. Chances are that they've come across this, or something like this before.
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they'd be much better than me anyway. :lol:
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It's worth noting that Pete is talking about swamp ash rather than hard ash. From what I've heard, and from speaking to Doug at Blackmachine, they are two very different woods. Apparently swamp ash is quite middy and fat sounding, as well as being very clear.
I agree with Nolly, I have a Custom Strat with a Swamp Ash body and a Maple/Maple neck - not nearly as bright as I was expecting, sustains for days and has a nice fat sound, especially considering its loaded with single coils.
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It's worth noting that Pete is talking about swamp ash rather than hard ash. From what I've heard, and from speaking to Doug at Blackmachine, they are two very different woods. Apparently swamp ash is quite middy and fat sounding, as well as being very clear.
I agree with Nolly, I have a Custom Strat with a Swamp Ash body and a Maple/Maple neck - not nearly as bright as I was expecting, sustains for days and has a nice fat sound, especially considering its loaded with single coils.
oh yeah, completely different things. but then swamp ash and swamp ash can be completely different as well... swamp ash is a label that suddenly increases the price of ash astronomically and there is no set method of grading it. Is it swamp ash because its grown in a swamp or is it swamp ash because its light!!! .... or is it really being sold as swamp ash because the person selling it knows they can charge a hell of a lot more for it if they add swamp to the start
generally with all reputable wood suppliers it comes down to weight. swamp ash is lighter because its grown in a wet area so the tree contains more water. when the wood is dry it has more air space that regular ash. This is why it can have huge pores and be a pain to finish and also dents easily. I have had some swamp ash that was as light as balsa but it can be a lot heavier and still be called swamp ash. Tonally it is a lot warmer than the baseball bat ash, but then i made a guitar out of that and it wasnt unpleasant... certainly quite a bright guitar and i had to make it thinner to get the weight to normal, but nice in its own way.
so basically ash varies from incredibly light to quite heavy. 10-15 years ago it was all just called ash and most places selling wood didnt want the stuff that went on to become 'swamp' ash because they thought it was a PITA.. dents easier and harder to finish are not the best qualities in a wood. then some bright spark used this cheap disposable wood for a guitar, some marketing mojo happened and we all want it :wink:
good swamp ash is truly excellent despite the extra problems in workability.. trust the luthier to get you a good bit