Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Scott674 on February 22, 2008, 12:41:06 AM

Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Scott674 on February 22, 2008, 12:41:06 AM
What would you guys suggest for a cheaper :oops:  amp head...  Something with some wicked high gain leads...  Like the poor man's triple rectifier...  In another somewhat similar thread (but not quite), Crazy Joe recommened a Laney.  Do they give a good lead sound?  Paul Gilbert (one of my heroes) likes them a lot... maybe I'll look into them.  

Any other ideas?
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: gwEm on February 22, 2008, 12:42:26 AM
jcm900 or dsl surely - if you can get a good deal.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Dakine on February 22, 2008, 12:53:52 AM
you are in USA so many poss.

What price range? 5150, Rectoverb, Single Recto, heck alot of choices.

More info req.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Scott674 on February 22, 2008, 02:06:55 AM
This look OK?
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/msg/565279085.html
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Dakine on February 22, 2008, 02:35:42 AM
would'nt be my first choice for $900 but then again not gotten enough info. to really make too much of a suggestion.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Scott674 on February 22, 2008, 02:44:30 AM
Not sure what I want myself... I was just doing some "General" amp browsing.  They are all quite expensive, for a decent looking one.  More than I can afford for awhile anyways...  "My amp head" will probably have 2, hopefully 3 channels, like Hunter's Einstein, the triple lead JCM2000, or a Triple Rectifier Solo head...  While I love effects pedals, I'd like be able to plug directly into the amp and rock out.  It's not much of a description, but again, I'm just doing some general looking...
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Dakine on February 22, 2008, 03:04:56 AM
then good luck.

Hunter got rid of Einstein I believe and now has a Shiva (as do I) a Budda and a new Marshall VM.

3 Chan. amps are usuall NOT cheap as more goes into them. IMO going too cheap means bad tone and waste of time. I would more look for dual ch. and use a boost if needed myself.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: opprobrium_9 on February 22, 2008, 05:01:04 AM
Quote from: Dakine
Hunter got rid of Einstein


what WHAT?  when was this?  and WHY didn't he send it to me for free? :twisted:
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: ericsabbath on February 22, 2008, 08:13:47 AM
you can get a carvin legacy for $600
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Mr Ed on February 22, 2008, 08:49:35 AM
Nowt wrong (really) with JCM900's - I wouldn't call them a "poor mans" amp at all.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: indysmith on February 22, 2008, 08:50:48 AM
As a general rule, cheap high gain heads that actually sound nice pretty much don't exist. Always better to save for a Bogner Uberschall or a Framus Cobra or whatever, and by the time yu've saved up yu'll realise that you've grown out of all this metal nonsense, and only really need one channel.
However, if you want instant satisfaction, loads of gain and the boast-factor of ur amp having three channels I don't see what's wrong with those TSLs (other than the tone) :)
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 22, 2008, 12:10:39 PM
Quote from: Eric Hellstyle
you can get a carvin legacy for $600


+1 Carvins are dirt cheap, the V3 is somewhere in the same region, and from what I've heard they're great amps.

Generally high gain is expensive - 3 channels is also expensive. 3 cjhannels, with 3 different EQs is very expensive...

Peavey 5150s, Dual Recs, even Framnus's and Engls can be found 2nd hand at good prices, but you better be good at snapping up bargains.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Philly Q on February 22, 2008, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Always better to save for a Bogner Uberschall or a Framus Cobra or whatever, and by the time yu've saved up yu'll realise that you've grown out of all this metal nonsense, and only really need one channel.

 :lol:  :lol:

Now I'll just sit back and listen out for the mortar attack in reply to that one.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Will on February 22, 2008, 12:26:33 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
Quote from: indysmith
Always better to save for a Bogner Uberschall or a Framus Cobra or whatever, and by the time yu've saved up yu'll realise that you've grown out of all this metal nonsense, and only really need one channel.

 :lol:  :lol:

Now I'll just sit back and listen out for the mortar attack in reply to that one.


Well I agree with Indy anyway. I would much prefer a dynamic single channel amp.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: gwEm on February 22, 2008, 12:40:07 PM
i'll ignore indy's troll ;) though i play metal with a single channel amp myself.

3 channels does seem overkill - two I can understand. if i was poor and needed a gainy valve amp for gigging I'd look at second hand Laney GH50L, JCM900 and DSL. With some spare money, maybe I'd pimp it a bit (JJ valves, NOS V1, speakers) later. evidently no one agrees with me though ;) i suppose it depends if you mean 'Metal' or 'MEEEETTTAAAAALLLLL!!!!!!!!!!'.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: _tom_ on February 22, 2008, 12:44:17 PM
GH50L with a boost. I agree with indy though :D
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: gwEm on February 22, 2008, 12:50:03 PM
Quote
GH50L with a boost. I agree with indy though

Ok, I will reply to indy's troll...

Quote
...by the time yu've saved up yu'll realise that you've grown out of all this metal nonsense...


When LOSERS say its over with, we know that its a LIE!!
The GODS made heavy metal, and its never gonna DIE!!!!!!
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: jibidy on February 22, 2008, 01:10:26 PM
Quote from: gwEm
When LOSERS say its over with, we know that its a LIE!!
The GODS made heavy metal, and its never gonna DIE!!!!!!


Lame. lol
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: silentrage on February 22, 2008, 01:15:49 PM
Quote from: gwEm
Quote
GH50L with a boost. I agree with indy though

Ok, I will reply to indy's troll...

Quote
...by the time yu've saved up yu'll realise that you've grown out of all this metal nonsense...


When LOSERS say its over with, we know that its a LIE!!
The GODS made heavy metal, and its never gonna DIE!!!!!!


classic.
reminds me of Priests ripper years, hehe.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: indysmith on February 22, 2008, 01:17:35 PM
Well it seems that i should know better than to confront the metal fraternity on this forum :lol:
*cowers behind his little single-channel combo*
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 22, 2008, 01:21:28 PM
Quote
When LOSERS say its over with, we know that its a LIE!!
The GODS made heavy metal, and its never gonna DIE!!!!!!


 :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: gwEm on February 22, 2008, 01:37:21 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Well it seems that i should know better than to confront the metal fraternity on this forum :lol:
*cowers behind his little single-channel combo*


Thats quite alright ;) We should have known despite your Super Strat, Nailbombs and JCM800 - Indy by name, Indie by nature.

I hope you enjoy gazing at your shoes and strumming obscure chords :)

(lyrics by Man O' War incase anyone thought they were mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hgfVbixQlg)
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Spitfire on February 22, 2008, 01:54:40 PM
if you play metal in america, and dont care too much about cleans... go for a used 5150 off ebay..

or a 5150II and u can get half decent cleans then... they are brilliant for the price...
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: silentrage on February 22, 2008, 02:49:00 PM
correct me if I'm wrong but if you're REAL poor then you probably don't want a tube amp?
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: indysmith on February 22, 2008, 02:58:49 PM
Quote from: silentrage
correct me if I'm wrong but if you're REAL poor then you probably don't want a tube amp?

correct me if i'm wrong, but Scott can clearly afford a computer and the internet, aswell as guitars. He's clearly not "REAL poor" :P

Back on topic Scott; if you really want to get a high gain amp for not a lot of money, i reckon a JCM900 would be your best bet for sure.
However, I maintain that you'd be better off saving for a Bogner or a Framus.
5150s some people love, some people hate; they've got a lot of brutal gain (much of it thoroughly unusable), but not that much tone to speak of :/
The laney GH50L is a great amp (from my limited experience of it), but probably not what you're looking for if you're a true high-gain lover (in the classic sense). It's far more rock than metal orientated.
TSLs are rubbish, fizzy horrible thin cr@p IMO. DSLs are better, and reportedly have more gain (although I never really dialed that much in when i tried it out) so might be more suitable for you, but they're still not great amps - still kind of thin and fizzy.
ENGLs are always a good bet for high-gain, you can't really go wrong for high gain unless you buy the classic or something :roll: they can also be had for reasonable prices second hand as someone has already said so that might be worth checking out (screamer in particular).
...and I'm going to assume you know about all the more expensive amps, as you've probably spent as many hours drooling over them and reading about them, and going to shops to try them as we all have :D
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: silentrage on February 22, 2008, 03:01:12 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Quote from: silentrage
correct me if I'm wrong but if you're REAL poor then you probably don't want a tube amp?

correct me if i'm wrong, but Scott can clearly afford a computer and the internet, aswell as guitars. He's clearly not "REAL poor" :P
\:D


I have a computer and internet and can't afford to buy strings too often atm, so... yeah...
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: kellar on February 22, 2008, 03:26:37 PM
Well said IndySMith.
I think it would be to your advantage to look for a dynamic and versatile amp that will get you close to anywhere you need to go then to look for an amp that is going to get you that metal/high gain sound.
At some point, you will enjoy playing other styles and with a high gain amp you may find yourself looking for something else soon.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Roobubba on February 22, 2008, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Quote from: silentrage
correct me if I'm wrong but if you're REAL poor then you probably don't want a tube amp?

correct me if i'm wrong, but Scott can clearly afford a computer and the internet, aswell as guitars. He's clearly not "REAL poor" :P



OK,

he could be using an internet cafe and have borrowed a guitar from a mate :)

And I'm not even going to rise to your previous comment ;)

Roo
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Scott674 on February 22, 2008, 10:34:07 PM
Woah... It looks like I fired up some of you...  Didn't mean to cause a fuss over it all...  I'm not homeless or anything, and certianly could bank up two or three thousand to drop on a nice rig, though it would take some extra time and will power...  But at the moment, if I've got a couple thousand laying around, it's going to bills...  I could justify spending somewhere under $1000 though...  $700, $800...  But as I said in the beginning, Mostly I was just doing some general amp browsing online. Trying to learn a little bit about amps.

...because...

 :oops: I actually don't know that much about amps...  The guitar shop I go to is a big retail chain, they carry all the big names only... Marshall, Fender, Line 6, Crate, etc...   I've never heard of a bogner or a Diezel until I started to read here at the BKP forums...  And even the nice amps at guitar center, I've never really played them.  I always figured "Oh, I'll never be able to afford that"  or  "I'm not that good a player" or something (I guess I'm kinda shy/self concious about my playing... I don't like other's to hear me since I'm not very good).  So basically, I've never plugged into the rectifier, or any of the Marshalls...  I've always played the cr@ppy Line 6 becaue it's what I have at home.  I've recently found a botique shop in my area, they carry some nice stuff like Dr. Z, Matchless I think, but I haven't played them either.  I have played 1 nice amp though...  they had a EVH 5150 and it was amazing.  Absolutely fantastic.  

And all of this makes me feel silly for being here too...  I don't know that much about tone, I'm not that great of a guitar player, why would I even need pickups of BKP quality?  

So I guess I've spilled my beans... I'm a wannabe!!! I don't know much. I'm learning still, but I think I've found the right place to do it--right here.  You guys have been great!

It's just so overwhealming... so many different heads, cabs, pickups, guitars, effects... but I appreciate the input and have something to go off of now.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 22, 2008, 10:49:57 PM
Don't be silly!

There's no level of skill where you're allowed to have BKPs or not.

If you have a fascination for gear, then by all means go for it!

If you can afford an amp, and want an amp, then you should go and buy one!
 
And if anyone in Guitar Center gives any funny looks - Swear at them!!!
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Scott674 on February 22, 2008, 11:01:18 PM
Lol thanks Noodle...
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Philly Q on February 22, 2008, 11:23:44 PM
Quote from: noodleplugerine
Don't be silly!

There's no level of skill where you're allowed to have BKPs or not.

If you have a fascination for gear, then by all means go for it!

If you can afford an amp, and want an amp, then you should go and buy one!
 
And if anyone in Guitar Center gives any funny looks - Swear at them!!!

Totally agree!

I feel just the same as you, Scott.  I'm too self-conscious to try out amps in shops too.  The only reason I feel confident trying out guitars (unplugged or at low volume!) is that nowadays the sales staff are more polite/respectful to me.  One of the few benefits of middle age - you look like you might have the money to actually buy something.  :wink:
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Scott674 on February 22, 2008, 11:52:50 PM
Well what do ya know... guess what shows up on craigslist today!

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/msg/582982682.html

Even second hand though, still way too expensive.

Is craigslist popular in the UK?
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: the_bleeding on February 23, 2008, 01:06:19 AM
man honestly, try stuff before you buy it and see what yo uthink. You could buy an amp off the internet and have it turn out completely different than what you thought, OR you could find something in a shop that sings to you.

Trying is surefire insurance that you'll know (and hopefully like) whats comin out. See, that was my problem, i got a 6100lm off webay andd was like "why the hell did i buy this" for the first number of months... until i picked up an od808 and a nicer guitar with nicer pickups.

But still, that first initial regret can be agonizing. Thank god my expectations were low after my previous line6 spider II.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Dakine on February 23, 2008, 01:13:45 AM
Craiglist has'nt seemed to have taken off in UK like US.

As for try before buy, excellent advice, BUT, it's bloody hard to find a store where this can be done satisfactorally.
I mean a store that has a closed off 'amp room' where you can hear what you are playing and NOT the bloody 'Green Day' thrash 11yo!
That said, do NOT be embarresed to ask a store member who knows about guitar to play/put an amp through it's paces for you. Most will be more than happy to help as they ARE salespeople :)
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Johnny Mac on February 23, 2008, 07:54:52 AM
Quote from: noodleplugerine
Quote from: Eric Hellstyle
you can get a carvin legacy for $600


+1 Carvins are dirt cheap, the V3 is somewhere in the same region, and from what I've heard they're great amps.

Generally high gain is expensive - 3 channels is also expensive. 3 cjhannels, with 3 different EQs is very expensive...

Peavey 5150s, Dual Recs, even Framnus's and Engls can be found 2nd hand at good prices, but you better be good at snapping up bargains.


I read somewhere that Carvin's are cheap and nasty inside, not sure if it's true.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Johnny Mac on February 23, 2008, 08:05:46 AM
Quote from: noodleplugerine
Don't be silly!

There's no level of skill where you're allowed to have BKPs or not.



Exactly, Indys still learning how to do a major bar chord and look at all the gear he has!  :wink:  :P
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: MrBump on February 23, 2008, 08:08:53 AM
Quote
And if anyone in Guitar Center gives any funny looks - Swear at them!!!


Ha, ha, ha!!!

Rock n Roll!

Personally I wouldn't worry to much about buying stuff online, although amps are heavy and expensive deals.  The thing is, what you can buy online you can also sell on line - you'll probably lose a little money, but as it was said earlier, finding a store that has EVERYTING that you want to try?  That could take you YEARS to find!!!

Also, and this might make me a litle unpopular, why not try to get higher gain in different ways?  A cheap but loud Marshall with a decent pedal in front wil probably give you what you want, and might help you to sound a little different to the rest of the mosh-pit...  That's what they did in the olden days...

 :twisted:

Mark.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Stevepage on February 23, 2008, 09:38:00 AM
dude look at this

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~name~Bugera-6260~ID~6051.asp

It's surposed to be a clone of the 5150. But I've heard clips of it and it sounds clearer and tighter than the 5150. and just look at that price  :o   these things seem to be well made too.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Will on February 23, 2008, 11:55:59 AM
Single channel with a Blackstar Dual or the like maybe? Twinfan is a user of this i believe
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Scott674 on February 24, 2008, 07:38:42 AM
I like the look of that Bugera...  Excellent price tag on it.  This may be the one...
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Nolly on February 24, 2008, 09:49:18 AM
Those Bugeras are supposed to be great.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: indysmith on February 24, 2008, 10:13:23 AM
Quote from: Johnny Mac
Quote from: noodleplugerine
Don't be silly!

There's no level of skill where you're allowed to have BKPs or not.



Exactly, Indys still learning how to do a major bar chord and look at all the gear he has!  :wink:  :P

LOL- Truer than I'd like to admit :P
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: silentrage on February 24, 2008, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: Nolly
Those Bugeras are supposed to be great.


Its price suggests "glass cannon" to me.
It probably sounds great, but might not be that reliable or long lasting,
just a guess.

If that's not the case then I know what I'll be buying soon. :)
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Nolly on February 24, 2008, 11:31:13 AM
From what I've read, its cheap price is due to the lower overheads by using Behringer as their distributor, rather than the use of cheap components. The amp itself is a clone of a 5150/6505, and apparently sounds identical if not a teeny bit better.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: silentrage on February 24, 2008, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nolly
From what I've read, its cheap price is due to the lower overheads by using Behringer as their distributor, rather than the use of cheap components. The amp itself is a clone of a 5150/6505, and apparently sounds identical if not a teeny bit better.


If that's true then... I think i just got GAS :(

I hear it even has better cleans ??  :D
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Stevepage on February 24, 2008, 04:44:01 PM
Yeah it does apparently. Hopefully I'll be able to try one out soon, I really want to see what it can do for me.
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: Davey on February 24, 2008, 04:50:00 PM
2nd hand laney. no better deals to be had than a GH50L or LH50R for 400€
add a couple of pedals in front and you're in tone heaven
Title: Poor man's high gain lead amp
Post by: cjpmmd on February 25, 2008, 02:56:38 AM
+1 for secondhand Laney, esp. the older AOR heads.  They've served me well in times past.