Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: MDV on February 23, 2008, 03:01:36 PM

Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: MDV on February 23, 2008, 03:01:36 PM
What the hells all the fuss about?

I wouldnt pay more than £300 for that. Shoddy neck join, un-resonant, thin sound generally cheap feeling.

Asking price was 1500  :?

The only thing it had going for it was its OFR, but I couldnt care less about that anyway.

Anyone had any better experiences? (Asside from Adam duckerwits or whatever his surname is out of KSE).

Is this typical?

Did I just get a bad example?
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: sambo on February 23, 2008, 03:05:04 PM
I know that Soilwork (reasonably big scandinavian metal band) use them too.

Interesting you didn't find it to be very good. Admittedly, I haven't researched a great deal about them (and never played one), but all that I HAVE heard about them has been very positive.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Stevepage on February 23, 2008, 03:05:47 PM
Wasn't too keen on the Horus I played. thin sounding bridge pickup, the neck was finished in what I can only describe as 'plasticy' and the overall sound wasn't fantastic that people make out they are. I'd rather have a USA Jackson for the money you have to pay.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 23, 2008, 03:39:34 PM
Mnemic use them too.

I heard they were superb - Suprised you disliked it so much :o

I thought they were Schallers not OFRs?
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Johnny Mac on February 23, 2008, 03:44:27 PM
1500 quid is Feline money, there is no substitute.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Crazy_Joe on February 23, 2008, 03:48:02 PM
I had the exact same experience, it was mushy and thin sounding (worst guitar sound i have ever heard) and i'd much rather go play my jap Ibanez.

It's my mates and it's still at my house (i was restringing it for him but he never took it back haha). It feels good but the sound is shocking and i wouldn't pay more than £300 for it either.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: MDV on February 23, 2008, 03:58:10 PM
Quote from: Johnny Mac
1500 quid is Feline money, there is no substitute.


Hell yeah!!!

My legra cost less than that and sh!ts on it from a GREAT height.

So does my custom dean

So does my MIJ Jackson (best MIJ at the time, but still)

I mean Optimus H Christ, in build quality and acoustic tone my RG7321 is better  :?

*Still really confused why anyone spending more than £1000 on a guitar wouldnt get Bob, Jon, Wez or someone similar to build them one*
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Johnny Mac on February 23, 2008, 04:15:04 PM
Quote from: MDV
Quote from: Johnny Mac
1500 quid is Feline money, there is no substitute.


Hell yeah!!!

My legra cost less than that and sh!ts on it from a GREAT height.

So does my custom dean

So does my MIJ Jackson (best MIJ at the time, but still)

I mean Optimus H Christ, in build quality and acoustic tone my RG7321 is better  :?

*Still really confused why anyone spending more than £1000 on a guitar wouldnt get Bob, Jon, Wez or someone similar to build them one*


 :lol: As we say down here ' Ya know what I mean!' or 'Innit' but to be frank I don't but do feel like it here!  :lol:  I was thinking when I read your post on it you must be taking your benchmark from your Legra from Bob. I bet my 20 year old Charvel would sound and play better too but it has been pimped by the pimp meister.

Don't believe all that hype and marketing. Less is more.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 23, 2008, 04:40:03 PM
Not everyone wants to wait months for a custom I guess.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: dave_mc on February 23, 2008, 05:19:05 PM
I thought the one I tried was nice, if it were about £600-£700 (and yeah, it had a schaller). I.e. the price it'd go for in Japan.

£1500? Have a titter of wit, as they'd say over here.  :lol:

I played a tyler, huber and suhr next to the caparison, and each of those annihilated the caparison (and were about twice the price of the caparison). And I'd rather have my legra than any of those three. The fact it was half the price of those three...

I'd agree with your final comment, Mark. Generally speaking, I'll only buy an off-the-shelf guitar if it's under about £500 (and kick-ass, e.g. MIJ Fender/Gibbo copies, or second-hand eggles etc.). Any more (unless it's, say, neck-thru or something, where I'd maybe stretch another hundred or two), and as you say, you might as well go legra (or other custom). Longer wait, but better guitar, and exactly what you want.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Johnny Mac on February 23, 2008, 07:11:30 PM
Quote from: noodleplugerine
Not everyone wants to wait months for a custom I guess.


All good things come to those who wait.  :)
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Lew on April 24, 2008, 03:25:48 PM
pre 06 non artist Capa's can be pretty bad and some are down right shitety, the ones made after 06 however- are different beasts all together.

Actually owning several Hamers and Suhr's, first hand the Capa's are up there.  Guitarist did a fair review of the Deli in april's mag

For the most part they are made for modern metal.  I just ordered  a Crawler/Mothers milk H-S-S set for my Capa  :twisted:
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: opprobrium_9 on April 24, 2008, 05:19:01 PM
Quote from: Johnny Mac
1500 quid is Feline money, there is no substitute.


Hails to that!  :D
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: ilÿti on April 24, 2008, 09:56:56 PM
Yes and if you don't have that kind of money, get a Carvin. Haven't heard bad things about their custom shop.

Maybe Caparison is pretty biased about who they send their gear to. Mathias IA Ekhlund isn't exactly someone I'd expect to be fooled into playing shoddy gear.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: maverickf1jockey on April 24, 2008, 10:05:52 PM
Quote from: ilyti
Mathias IA Ekhlund isn't exactly someone I'd expect to be fooled into playing shoddy gear.

This is the same Mattias IA Eklundh who recorded his earlier Freak Kitchen albums with really cheap, shoddy guitars, a transitor bass amp (which he claims had a bird's nest in it) and a soviet-built distortion pedal?
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: ilÿti on April 24, 2008, 10:15:35 PM
Yes. The same Mattias Eklundh that used to be poor but can now play any piece of gear he wants.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Lew on April 24, 2008, 11:02:19 PM
Guitar snobbery is one thing but elitism is a whole new ball game!

A good guitar tone on a reccord has substantially more to do with a good producer behind you in the studio who knows how to record a live guitar  and the player being on the ball than what brand guitar is being used.

As I have previously said, if you look at who uses Caparison you will see it is 90% modern metal, like The Absence/Symphony X/Soilwork/KSE.
 
Live these guys want and need something that can give them that sound.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: robbo on April 26, 2008, 12:41:07 PM
I for one do not like caparison's pickups one bit, so can't stand their stock sound, but i am a pretty big caparison fan.  Plus i'm really into a lot of the sponge finishes.

They don't touch the ESP customshop, but they're at least on par with their standard series, and cheaper too (at least where i am)

oh and im a rock boy, through and through.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: PoshCollins on April 26, 2008, 02:27:09 PM
I'd rather have a Korean Ibanez anyday considering I'm an MIJ snob pretty much :P :P
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: noodleplugerine on April 26, 2008, 02:45:06 PM
Anyone know a japanese website that sells caparisons and exports?

None on Ishibashi, was wondering about the price of a TATII.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: MDV on April 26, 2008, 03:13:48 PM
Curse you threadnomancy!

I havent played a different one since, so I have nothing to add.

Only to emphasise that the neck join looked like it was chiselled out by a C-grade GSCE technology student. I couldnt believe that neck join

I wonder if anyone actually bought it  :o
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: PoshCollins on April 26, 2008, 05:02:09 PM
Quote from: MDV
Curse you threadnomancy!

I havent played a different one since, so I have nothing to add.

Only to emphasise that the neck join looked like it was chiselled out by a C-grade GSCE technology student. I couldnt believe that neck join

I wonder if anyone actually bought it  :o


Thanks :P :lol:
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Lew on April 26, 2008, 05:37:59 PM
Quote from: MDV
Curse you threadnomancy!

I havent played a different one since, so I have nothing to add.

Only to emphasise that the neck join looked like it was chiselled out by a C-grade GSCE technology student. I couldnt believe that neck join

I wonder if anyone actually bought it  :o


I dont doubt you had a bad experience. Capa's made before 2006 before they got their act together can have poor QC and have shitety electronics, they have elimenated loads of customers because of that.

This hasnt been chiseled by a gcse student :P

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/968b/DSC_0083.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/968b/DSC_0079.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/957/DSC_0405.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/957/DSC_0386.jpg
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: noodleplugerine on April 26, 2008, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Lew
Quote from: MDV
Curse you threadnomancy!

I havent played a different one since, so I have nothing to add.

Only to emphasise that the neck join looked like it was chiselled out by a C-grade GSCE technology student. I couldnt believe that neck join

I wonder if anyone actually bought it  :o


I dont doubt you had a bad experience. Capa's made before 2006 before they got their act together can have poor QC and have shitety electronics, they have elimenated loads of customers because of that.

This hasnt been chiseled by a gcse student :P

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/968b/DSC_0083.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/968b/DSC_0079.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/957/DSC_0405.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/957/DSC_0386.jpg


Both gorgeous guitars.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Jonny on April 26, 2008, 09:29:32 PM
I'd have to cough up a lung, one kidney and my liver. And I'd still have to pay ~£1500 for a Caparison.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: WezV on April 26, 2008, 10:03:03 PM
Quote from: MDV
Only to emphasise that the neck join looked like it was chiselled out by a C-grade GSCE technology student. I


thats good..... i got an E :wink:

as with all the GCSE's i did badly in  that i thought i was brilliant at(woodwork-E, Food technology-E, Art-C)... it was all down to the paperwork!!! (honestly).   The C in art hurt more than the other two at the time

all i remember about woodwork at school was the lump on my DT teachers head, the fact there was a rumour he had been done for murder, the fact he had taught my dad, the crazy assemblies he did in his later years(...involving sheep and the pet shop boys)... and the fact i did use a spokeshave back then but not once did anyone teach me the importance of sharpening tools.. a dull spokeshave is like a chocolate teapot
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Twinfan on April 26, 2008, 10:22:42 PM
Quote from: MDV
*Still really confused why anyone spending more than £1000 on a guitar wouldnt get Bob, Jon, Wez or someone similar to build them one*


As other people have said really:

* Waiting time
* Resale
* Brand image/loyalty etc
* Try before you buy
* Known quantity, so less risk

Don't get me wrong - I'm sure the luthiers here make superb guitars and  I'd certainly love to try one of their creations one day.  It's just that I don't have really defined exacting requirements, so 'off the shelf' works fine for me  :)
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Jonny on April 26, 2008, 10:29:22 PM
How do Caparison necks compare? I find Ibanez great but Jackson a slightly wide feel. Are they more Ibanez, Jackson or in between?
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: WezV on April 26, 2008, 10:36:37 PM
your spot on twinfan...

at the end of the day those of us that make guitars only do it because we love guitars so we understand how GAS works... the fact it takes us a while to get something completed and in the hands of the guitar playing public is an obvious problem.

resale is an interesting one for me at the moment - it wont be long before resale price is as much as i am charging.... so i reckon i need to hike me prices up :P

try before you buy is always a problem, i like to have some stuff around so people can try before they buy but obviously their guitar will not be the same.  the opposite problem is that those demo guitars rarely sell because people want their own twist on it
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: MDV on April 26, 2008, 10:53:35 PM
No offence posh and wez  :oops:

I might add, chiselled not with a chisel. With a sharpened spoon.

Anywho, I think youre right Dave. Of those reasons the only one that resonates for me personally is 'try before you buy'. I was bricking it till my legra got here. All decisions vindicated in the final analysis (lets just say I didnt brak Bobs string of 10s in all catergories for all guitars on HC reviews!). But the gamble would be there again with a different buider or different design.

I have enough guitars though. I'll struggle for space for more. I'm more interested in buying new heads.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Philly Q on April 26, 2008, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: Twinfan
Don't get me wrong - I'm sure the luthiers here make superb guitars and  I'd certainly love to try one of their creations one day.  It's just that I don't have really defined exacting requirements, so 'off the shelf' works fine for me  :)

+1

If I was to ever go for a custom guitar, it would probably look very much like a bog-standard SG or Les Paul Jr (maybe with different timbers or construction refinements).  But it seems almost insulting to go to a luthier and say "Hmm, yeah, your designs are nice, but could you just copy my SG?".

And there's always the nagging doubt that your custom creation wouldn't turn out to have "it", that special mojo you hoped for.  Not necessarily because of any failing by the luthier, but perhaps because you didn't really know exactly what you wanted.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: MDV on April 26, 2008, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
Quote from: Twinfan
Don't get me wrong - I'm sure the luthiers here make superb guitars and  I'd certainly love to try one of their creations one day.  It's just that I don't have really defined exacting requirements, so 'off the shelf' works fine for me  :)

+1

If I was to ever go for a custom guitar, it would probably look very much like a bog-standard SG or Les Paul Jr (maybe with different timbers or construction refinements).  But it seems almost insulting to go to a luthier and say "Hmm, yeah, your designs are nice, but could you just copy my SG?".

And there's always the nagging doubt that your custom creation wouldn't turn out to have "it", that special mojo you hoped for.  Not necessarily because of any failing by the luthier, but perhaps because you didn't really know exactly what you wanted.


I know what you mean on the 'getting it wrong'. But I went to Bob with a tone in mind, and he gave me advice on how to get it and we hammered out ideas between us and decided on a spec that would do the job. And so it does. I think if you go with a set spec and dont have that discussion, you could get a guitar that falls short of expectation in unexpected ways, for you (but probably not so much for the luthier: I think tone is still a black art to even experienced luthiers, but they certainly have a better idea how a guitars going to turn out). If you talk it out, youre going to get much closer to what you want.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Lew on April 26, 2008, 11:07:26 PM
Quote from: Jonny
How do Caparison necks compare? I find Ibanez great but Jackson a slightly wide feel. Are they more Ibanez, Jackson or in between?


They are pretty big by super strat standards.
Chunky and wide, nothing like an Ibanez, the radius of the board gets flater as you get further up the neck. It has as dead flat center in the middle of a U shape. The frets are like rail tracks ;P

You can spend 2k and get a Hamer/Suhr/Anderson and they are always floating around the used market, they may not be any better a guitar than the customs but they have the street cred/brand.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: dave_mc on April 27, 2008, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: MDV
No offence posh and wez  :oops:

I might add, chiselled not with a chisel. With a sharpened spoon.

Anywho, I think youre right Dave. Of those reasons the only one that resonates for me personally is 'try before you buy'. I was bricking it till my legra got here. All decisions vindicated in the final analysis (lets just say I didnt brak Bobs string of 10s in all catergories for all guitars on HC reviews!). But the gamble would be there again with a different buider or different design.

I have enough guitars though. I'll struggle for space for more. I'm more interested in buying new heads.


my biggest problem was actually deciding on a final spec as i'm the most indecisive person on the planet.

the wait's the annoying thing too. worth it, no doubt, but it is hard.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Jonny on April 27, 2008, 07:37:36 PM
Quote from: dave_mc
[my biggest problem was actually deciding on a final spec as i'm the most indecisive person on the planet.

the wait's the annoying thing too. worth it, no doubt, but it is hard.

I'm sure there is the temptation that you want to buy something else within that time too.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: dave_mc on April 28, 2008, 12:34:49 PM
yeah. or at least, the major concern is that you might change your mind once you've placed the order.

this sounds like i'm down on custom-builds... i'm really not, i'd do it again. just it's only fair to point out the (possible) problems and/or concerns to others.

:)
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: ToneMonkey on April 28, 2008, 01:21:16 PM
I think that people are different in the fact that people after a custom are often after the guitar that is going to stay with them, whereas other people like to have a lot of off the shelf guitars (isn't that right Mr King  :wink: ).  If your after a guitar for keeps then you wont mind the wait so much.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: kevincurtis on April 28, 2008, 01:33:10 PM
If I can remember back far enough, the initial reason I went down the custom build route for my Strat was simply colour - I wanted a translucent black quilted maple finish which at the time wasn't available stock.  As soon as I had, my discussions with the luthier lead to other subtle variations - the body contouring is slightly different, the neck join has been contoured slightly to allow better access, as well as a subtle larger scoop for the bottom horn. Also I wanted a fixed bridge.... I guess I am saying there are loads of ways to make a guitar just that little bit more personal that a luthier brings - and I think it's always great to have a 1 off :)

I would definitely do it again...just got to keep saving!
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Philly Q on April 28, 2008, 01:56:58 PM
Quote from: ToneMonkey
I think that people are different in the fact that people after a custom are often after the guitar that is going to stay with them, whereas other people like to have a lot of off the shelf guitars (isn't that right Mr King  :wink: ).  If your after a guitar for keeps then you wont mind the wait so much.

To be fair, I think Phil has everything - vintage, modern, off-the-shelf, home-builds and customs. :wink:

The thing with off-the-shelf guitars is that - obviously - they're already built.  So you can pick something up with no particular expectations of liking it, and it turns out to be magic.  

I wouldn't rule out a custom build one day though - in fact I know pretty much exactly what I'd want.  But I feel like I ought to be a decent player to "justify" a custom build.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Jonny on April 28, 2008, 03:54:24 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
I wouldn't rule out a custom build one day though - in fact I know pretty much exactly what I'd want.  But I feel like I ought to be a decent player to "justify" a custom build.

That rules me off the list.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: PoshCollins on April 28, 2008, 05:28:25 PM
The only I'd really see myself trying a Caparison is due to the fact I'm a big fan of Matthis 'IA' Eklundh. But in all honesty I don't really feel the need to try them out.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: zilong on April 29, 2008, 12:52:27 AM
I hear that the stock bridge pickups on the Horus models suck, while the Dellinger/TAT bridge pickups are pretty good.
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: Lew on April 29, 2008, 01:36:14 AM
Quote from: zilong
I hear that the stock bridge pickups on the Horus models suck, while the Dellinger/TAT bridge pickups are pretty good.


Ye, I thought the bridge pickup was shite in my horus, but the PH-R in my deli is a good metal pickup.

I dont like the single coils in either models, but that 's why I have a Crawler/Mmilk/Mmilk on order  8)
Title: BTW - I played a caparison
Post by: dave_mc on April 29, 2008, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: ToneMonkey
I think that people are different in the fact that people after a custom are often after the guitar that is going to stay with them, whereas other people like to have a lot of off the shelf guitars


that's very true.