Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: everton_fc on February 23, 2008, 07:32:03 PM

Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: everton_fc on February 23, 2008, 07:32:03 PM
Will a 20W Greenback turn to toast in a 22w dimed amp? Or will it be working the speaker to it's optimum?

Cheers
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: indysmith on February 23, 2008, 07:58:16 PM
Toast I'm afraid is the likely event.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: Ted on February 23, 2008, 08:07:29 PM
Not good.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: everton_fc on February 23, 2008, 08:24:40 PM
cheers!
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: dave_mc on February 23, 2008, 08:26:08 PM
i'd have thought it might be ok, as speakers tend to be rated conservatively. but it's risky, and those heritages aren't cheap.

if you can easily afford to buy another one if it does blow, might be worth a try. if not, don't.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: Elliot on February 23, 2008, 08:27:51 PM
A good guide is that 22 watts needs double watts of speaker when wacked up high.  So go for something 50 watt at least.  hmmm Alnico Gold?
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: everton_fc on February 23, 2008, 08:45:18 PM
those golds are so expensive
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: indysmith on February 23, 2008, 09:17:57 PM
So is a Lamborghini; but ya get what ya pay for :lol:
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: dave_mc on February 23, 2008, 10:11:03 PM
Quote from: Elliot
A good guide is that 22 watts needs double watts of speaker when wacked up high.  So go for something 50 watt at least.  hmmm Alnico Gold?


presumably the speaker manufacturers know that, though? I mean, ac30s had two alnico blues in them (30 watts). Putting out more than 30 watts (presumably) when cooking.

Could be wrong, I'm just working on common sense here, which, granted, is often foolish. :)
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: hamfist on February 24, 2008, 08:31:23 AM
The potential risk is not just blowing the speaker. If the speaker goes open circuit if/when it dies, there is a good chance you could fry you Output Transformer too.  That's all an expensive business !
   An alternative to a Greenback is a G12-65.
Scumback Speakers also make a sublime 65W rated pre-Rola Greenback clone - expensive to import (about £130) but worth it. I'll be able to report back about them as I am to receive some Scumbacks tommorow !

 - http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/m_series.html
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: hunter on February 24, 2008, 08:54:00 AM
Quote from: everton_fc
those golds are so expensive


hotroxuk.com

here the Gold is as much as the Heritage on Thomann (130 GBP)


 8)
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: ailean on February 24, 2008, 07:44:54 PM
Quote from: dave_mc
Quote from: Elliot
A good guide is that 22 watts needs double watts of speaker when wacked up high.  So go for something 50 watt at least.  hmmm Alnico Gold?


presumably the speaker manufacturers know that, though? I mean, ac30s had two alnico blues in them (30 watts). Putting out more than 30 watts (presumably) when cooking.

Could be wrong, I'm just working on common sense here, which, granted, is often foolish. :)


I think the rating is the point at which you seriously run the risk of the speaker blowing. However most speakers (all?) will start to distort the sound long before they are pushed to that point, so even if don't push the speaker all the way it will still sound awful, hence the x2 rule, the speaker will be pushed when you drive your amp but won't distort. At what percentage of the power rating the speaker starts to distort will of course vary from speaker to speaker, and of course the type of sound will have an impact, metal is going to reach the limits of the speaker much earlier than some light blues at the same power rating.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: everton_fc on February 24, 2008, 09:19:51 PM
What are people's opinions on G12-65? Anyone got a used, broken in one to hand? I heard they are good if you wanna Greenback type speaker but obviously around 65W not 20W
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: hunter on February 24, 2008, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: everton_fc
What are people's opinions on G12-65? Anyone got a used, broken in one to hand? I heard they are good if you wanna Greenback type speaker but obviously around 65W not 20W


quite trebly, but a very nice speaker. People say it's between Greenback and G12T75, personally I find it quite a bit different from Greenbacks.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: HTH AMPS on February 24, 2008, 09:43:58 PM
dimed AC30s with alnico blues last a while, but the speakers ALWAYS go sooner or later - I found this out the hard way with a '63 AC30 and original speakers... where is the crying emoticon...  :cry:

a Celestion alnico gold is the way to go with a 22w amp if you want that alnico tone.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: LazyNinja on February 24, 2008, 10:11:37 PM
Sorry to hijack but I have a similar question. If I use a 100w cab (4x G12M greenbacks) with a 100w head like a plexi will I be at risk of blowing the speakers and the OT?
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: indysmith on February 24, 2008, 10:13:55 PM
Depends really on how loud you play it. If yu crank it to full, it's definitely likely that some damage will be done.
I wouldn't go over half volume.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: hamfist on February 24, 2008, 10:23:09 PM
Quote from: everton_fc
What are people's opinions on G12-65? Anyone got a used, broken in one to hand? I heard they are good if you wanna Greenback type speaker but obviously around 65W not 20W


Great, great all round speakers. they suit a lot of different styles, although I would not include down-tuned metal among them.
 My 2x12 is currently loaded with two of them - well broken in (200 hours + of good volume).  
  Hunter writes that he found them trebly. My experience is the opposite, and agrees with most other internet opinions I have read about them.
   They are basically similar to greenbacks, but with a slightly more mellow treble response, and a tighter bass.  Still the same strong mids as a greenback, though. I really like them. It'll be interesting to see if my new Scumbacks can displace them out of my cab !

Alan
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: LazyNinja on February 24, 2008, 10:47:03 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Depends really on how loud you play it. If yu crank it to full, it's definitely likely that some damage will be done.
I wouldn't go over half volume.


Yeah I thought the same. I've never turned my VH100R past 4 and I'd imagine it'd be similar with a 100W plexi. Besides if i really wanted to crank it I could use my hotplate.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: _tom_ on February 24, 2008, 11:58:30 PM
Whilst the threads still kinda hijacked I might as well ask a question :P I have a GH50L which puts put 50w and my cab has 2xG12H which means the cabs rated at 60w. If I crank the amp right up will it put out more than 50w and damage the speakers?
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: Will on February 25, 2008, 12:02:29 AM
From what I understand, it would put out 50w RMS which is constant level, but will peak at up to 80w. I have been told that if the signal is extremely clipped / overdriven it can put out twice the RMS.
So yeah, it could blow the speakers.
Title: 20W Speaker in a 22W amp
Post by: hamfist on February 25, 2008, 07:37:30 AM
Quote from: _tom_
Whilst the threads still kinda hijacked I might as well ask a question :P I have a GH50L which puts put 50w and my cab has 2xG12H which means the cabs rated at 60w. If I crank the amp right up will it put out more than 50w and damage the speakers?


Too close for comfort. you would probably get away with it for a short while, but not if you cranked it on a regular basis.
   Also remember that amps are usually putting out about 90% of their power output when the master is only about halfway.