Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: AngusYoung01 on February 25, 2008, 08:51:14 PM
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Well, I was playing one at my local, and the neck was superb. It played beautifully, and was really light (and still completely solid, no hollowing out to my knowledge!). I was just wondering if anyone here knew much about them, I'm considering saving for it....then getting some Cold Sweats to go in it :twisted:
Its one that was made when Gibson were moving their production, so its got a transfer logo instead of an inlaid one. It has a plain maple top, no flamed fancy stuff here, and its in sunburst. £1300. Plus, it'll be vintage soon!
What to you guys rekon?
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Gibson only put transfer logo's on Les Paul juniors and possibly the Les Paul Studio. As far as I know there were no juniors being made in 1984, and the studio was a new guitar then. Does the guitar have a bound top? If it does then I would be very suspicious of this and £1,300 seems a lot for a Les paul Studio. What shop is it?
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some might say its vintage now my friend ;)
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if it's older than me, it's vintage.
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i would hate to contradict Mr King, and i may be wrong, but i'm fairly sure i've seen one or two standards with transfer logos. maybe it was a temporary transitional thing?
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if it's older than me, it's vintage.
Well said.
Mind you if I get a guitar that's older than me, it'll be a relic :D
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i would hate to contradict Mr King, and i may be wrong, but i'm fairly sure i've seen one or two standards with transfer logos. maybe it was a temporary transitional thing?
Some details on Les Paul logos:
LES PAUL STANDARD (LPS-)(1974-1997 Mfr.) - single cutaway mahogany body, set-in mahogany (or maple) neck, bound carved 3 piece maple top, 22 fret bound rosewood fingerboard with pearl trapezoid inlay, tune-o-matic bridge/stop tailpiece, blackface peghead with pearl logo inlay, "Standard" engraved on truss rod cover, 3 per side tuners with pearloid buttons, chrome hardware, cream pickguard, 2 covered humbucker pickups, 2 volume/2 tone controls, 3 position switch. Available in Cherry Sunburst, Dark Sunburst, Ebony (EB), Gold Top, Heritage Sunburst, Honey Burst, Natural, Tobacco Sunburst, TV Yellow, Vintage Sunburst and Wine Red (WR) finishes. Mfd. 1974 to 1997.
This is Gibson's list of how to spot a counterfeit Les Paul:
Gibson have provided the following tips for consumers, to help people avoid getting ripped off:
Measure the guitar to check that it’s not undersized. Correct measurements can be found on www.Gibson.com.
Examine headstock and headstock logo to determine that they match those of authentic Gibson guitars.
Check to see that all pearl is inlaid.
Check that Les Paul model script is always in cursive.
Verify that there’s not a three-screw truss rod cover.
Check the control and pickup cavities for sloppy routing or wiring.
Make sure the pickup cavity is not painted black inside.
Always ask for the Gibson Owner’s Manual and Gibson Warranty Inspection card.
Check the wiring. If it’s plastic it isn’t a true Gibson.
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I'd go with Phil here.
Transfer logo and really light - with a solid body? The guitar should be really substantial in weight for an 80's LP.
It doesn't sound right to me.
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ok, i stand corrected! :wink:
although, there are a few non-standard gibsons that have slipped out, special orders, odd parts and such. it's non-standard, but it is possible that there might be a few transfer logo standards. or it could be an early studio with binding?
nontheless, i defer to Phil, he does know better than me.
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Pics would help a lot here :)
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Mine is an '89 if memory serves and too is a good one but has pucka logo and is not what I would call light!
Also, for sale for offers over 950 quid!
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There was the 1985 studio standard maybe? that had dot inlays thought, hmm weird decision you have there
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i would hate to contradict Mr King, and i may be wrong, but i'm fairly sure i've seen one or two standards with transfer logos. maybe it was a temporary transitional thing?
Yeh it is.
It as made when they were changing factories, so there some cost cutting things going on. Its all real, they are very trusting people and label any "fakes" they have.
It is a Standard.
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Mine is an '89 if memory serves and too is a good one but has pucka logo and is not what I would call light!
Also, for sale for offers over 950 quid!
Pics? :D
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(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/DSC00991.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/DakineTX/DSC00988.jpg)
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i would hate to contradict Mr King, and i may be wrong, but i'm fairly sure i've seen one or two standards with transfer logos. maybe it was a temporary transitional thing?
Yeh it is.
It as made when they were changing factories, so there some cost cutting things going on. Its all real, they are very trusting people and label any "fakes" they have.
It is a Standard.
The original Kalamazoo factory closed in 1984, but they were already building guitars in Montana and had been for many years. The last 3 digits of the serial number will give you the location where it was built.
Gibson only list the Les Paul studio as a carved top with a decal logo. I have checked on the web and there is nowhere that mentions a gold transfer logo on a Les Paul standard. The fact that it is highlighted as an issue for counterfeit guitars would make me very suspicious of it. All the details of 1984 Standards show they have inlaid pearl logos.
Before I would pay that much money for it I would want to check the cavities and the serial number with Gibson. They have a 24 hour service to let you check that because they hate counterfeits. Ask the shop if they will give you the serial number and see what Gibson tell you. If you don't want to call them, send it to me and I will check for you.
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Double post? :P
Thanks Phil!
Heres the guitar, on their site.
http://www.aroundaboutsound.co.uk/shop/product_details.asp?p_id=2559
They are trustworthy as I say and wouldn't rip you off, I'm pretty certain its genuine, but you seem to really know your beans, so yeh. Serial number can be seen on one pic there too.
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I called Gibson and they asked me to send the pictures to them. They said that they made some studio models with all the standard features (binding and inlays), and this may be one of them. It will take a couple of days to get back the answer.
Their database only goes back to 1987, which is why they couldn't tell me on the phone.
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That's nicer than you described it.
Very pretty guitar, aged very nicely.
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Looks genuine Gibson to me, could be one of those Studio Standards I guess?
Hard to tell from the photos but it looks like it may have had a re-fret? The frets seem to go over the binding whereas they should have plastic binding 'nibs'.
I'd say it's a genuine used Gibson, but I think the price is a little high. I would have thought £1000 - £1100 was a fair price.
The Classic at the same place looks nice:
http://www.aroundaboutsound.co.uk/shop/product_details.asp?p_id=2611
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I have an 89 LP Standard and it weighs a ton! Not one for wussy shoulders!
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if you follow the link i notice they are charging £999 for delivery!! that's a bit steep, i hope it includes insurance :wink:
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this is one of the most useful and interesting threads on the BKP board...
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The Classic they have does indeed look nice.
I'm biased though as I really like the slim 60's tapered neck.
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Something about that very non-specific "1973 Guild Electric guitar" on that site is singing a very dangerous siren song to me.
http://www.aroundaboutsound.co.uk/shop/product_details.asp?p_id=2394
Leftover affection for Kim Thayill, perhaps?
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http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/guild75p8.php
S-50 maybe?
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Tis exactly what it is. Good spot.
That things got that junkshop vibe all over it.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUILD-S90-1974-EXCELLENT-ORIGINAL-INC-CASE_W0QQitemZ120225273887QQihZ002QQcategoryZ41436QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Seen this?
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This is the reply I got from Gibson:
Dear Phil,
Thank you for the pictures.
The pictures are showing a guitar that doesn’t look like to be a genuine Gibson guitar.
The serial number position looks a bit strange, as the tuning machine positions and the headstock shape.
If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us again or refer to our webpage at www.gibsoneurope.com
Kind regards,
Philippe Rialto
Customer Service
Gibson Europe
FREE NUMBER
00800-4GIBSON1
00800-44427661
www.gibsoneurope.com
I don't know what you want to do about this, but I would stay away.
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Lesson of the day: Phil knows his sh.it.
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^Jeez- looking at it after reading what Phil just posted- the tuners + headstock definitely looks very odd. The tuners are squashed towards to the middle of the headstock (it looks like), or the headstock is just too long. :?
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They do say in the ad that this was a period of transition between factories for Gibson. May explain the non-standard things?
The "Made in Usa" legend appears to be underneath the serial number, but it looks to be stamped differently and fainter?
Hmm.
Could be a Gibsonised Tokai/Greco/Burny? I'd love to check it out in the flesh and pull the neck pickup. If it's a Japanese copy, it'll probably have the long neck tenon....
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I've just done a visual v my 89 Standard - couple of things look odd/different - the serial number is too 'clean' - mine is quite hard to read unless you have very good light, with the lacquer filling quite a lot of the numbers, also the script for the Les Paul logo also does not look quite right - there is a very subtle difference - another minor point (and this might be the pictures) the horns on the top of the headstock do not look quite sharp enough. Enough doubt to not spend £1300 on it anyway!!
Mike
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The best advice I've had on vintage/old guitars is from a VERY high end collector.
His view is that if you aren't 100% certain it's correct and its being sold as a no issues guitar don't buy it as there will always be something else cool out there.
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(http://www.aroundaboutsound.co.uk/shop/product_images/2559_large-2.jpg)
(http://www.aroundaboutsound.co.uk/shop/product_images/2559_large-4.jpg)
from 1981...
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The "Made in Usa" legend appears to be underneath the serial number, but it looks to be stamped differently and fainter?
Yeah I just noticed that. Although I can't see the "USA" at all.
EDIT: And looking at that photo from Will, I'm SURE that the tuners on the 1984 are too close together or something. :?
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Mine is similar I think, the MI USA stamp is faint, but I would bet it is more apparent in person, and the headstock layout is similar, the height of the Gibson logo is slightly different, and the headstock doesn't seem as shaped around the tuner parts, only issues I can find :?
edit: looking at more photos, it looks like it curves up too quickly coming from the neck. meaning the stretch from first pointy bit to the corner near G is longer
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUILD-S90-1974-EXCELLENT-ORIGINAL-INC-CASE_W0QQitemZ120225273887QQihZ002QQcategoryZ41436QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Seen this?
Now that fairly stirs my porridge. Watchy-watchy for me.
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I know the shop in question (aroundabout sound), it's just down the road from me actually. I must admit though that it isn't my favourite locally. It has a good range of the well known stuff, and for around here it also has a good amount of second hand stuff, but i find it too dark, and while the staff are ok i don't seem to get on with them that well
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See thats the thing, the place is quality, and the people are awesome. It's my local, and I wans't questioning whether its real or not because I didn't think it was an issue, the staff would say if they knew if it was fake.
Thanks for the info Phil!
But as its said, it is apparently from the transition period so there was a load of cost cutting things going on.
Strange, never realised it would escolate like this :lol: , but all useful info!