Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: hamfist on March 20, 2008, 07:30:03 AM
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For some strange reason, I felt the need to order a new amp.
I have been very happy with the AC30HH I got a couple of months ago, and I still cannot really fault it for most of the playing I do. It rules for low to mid gain tones. However, I still have not been totally happy with higher gain tones or singing sustaining lead tones I have been able to get through it using a variety of pedals to boost.
To be honest it's a bit of a cheek to expect any amp to do everything.
I have always wanted a Plexi, and there is always ths nagging suggestion in my mind that the Plexi is the amp that will be perfect for me. I think I just need to get it out of my system.
So I ordered the Plexi 50W lead 1987 from Nik at Ceriatone yesterday. I'm getting a PPIMV as an extra. Needless to say, I am really looking for ward to getting it. I think with the PPIMV and my hotplate together I should be able to get some great tone out of it at very reasonable volumes. if that isn't enough, I will swap the EL34's for 6V6's to reduce volume even further.
My plan (as I've explained it to my wife) is to get the amp, and play both it and my AC30 for a few weeks and decide which one I will keep. The loser will then be sold. I'm REALLY hoping there is a clear winner, because I don't want to be in the position of desperately wanting to keep both. However, I am realistic enough to know it's a real possibility.
One of my biggest problems is that I'm a one amp kind of guy (I'd rather have all my money invested in one amp rather that have two cheaper ones. The other part of my problem is that my amp needs to be able to cover playing ridiculously quietly at church (lots of lower gain tones here) and also crank it up with my rock band. It's a tall order for any amp to cover all that. I boost with pedals, but I still want my main dirt to be from the amp - hence my need for PPIMV, hotplate etc for serious volume control.
Nik says it'll be about 4 weeks for the amp. Total cost (incl import fees) will be about £600 - amazing value for a hand-wired amp.
I will obviously report back when the beast arrives.
Alan
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that is good value.. and very tempting!!
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Actually..... Me too! :D
I was gonna build it myself but saw a good deal on one that I couldn't pass up. My build may now be an 18W or maybe even a 100W from Metro. I will report on how it sounds once it arrives. Can't wait!
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I love the sound of the 50w plexi - a bit different to the 100w heads. I could fancy one of those with a power scale mod
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I was tempted by Nik's Expression (Wreck Clone), i was so close to pulling the trigger but I decided on another amp.. Im pretty sure i'll order a ceriatone at somepoint they're such good value for money how could you not?
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I have the same rationale when justifying new gear- I always say to my wife, 'don't worry I'll sell xy and z to pay for it' and I do really mean it at the time, just never happens........ :roll:
But yeah, 50 watt plexi with a PPIMV will be real handy
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Sounds good Alan!
If after doing the comparisons you decide to sell the Plexi, drop me a line and I'll take it off your hands :)
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Actually..... Me too! :D
I was gonna build it myself but saw a good deal on one that I couldn't pass up. My build may now be an 18W or maybe even a 100W from Metro. I will report on how it sounds once it arrives. Can't wait!
Build the 18w TMB then let me know how it sounds, I've been gas'ing for a lower wattage plexi recently :P
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Just a thought Alan - you should have kept your Martamp JTM45 and modded it for EL34s!
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Nice one mate!
I'm so close to putting down the deposit on a Ceriatone/Martamp Plexi, just selling one more bit of gear!!!
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Look forward to hearing some clips - the Vox clip you posted sounded excellent so will be interested in how you get on with a plexi clone :)
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do they sell the power scaling function on on all the Ceriatone amps or is this an after build mod?
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do they sell the power scaling function on on all the Ceriatone amps or is this an after build mod?
Its an after build or you could get martin at martamp to build the kit for you and include power scaling which would seem the sensible solution :D
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Ceriatone don't do Power Scaling - just a master volume.
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can the powerscaling be added to any amp? does it have to be an internal mod?
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Nik will do pentode/triode switching, I have 2 amps on the way from him at the moment, both with that feature. One is a stock Overtone Special, the other is a custom build, which I'll save for when it gets here.
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can the powerscaling be added to any amp? does it have to be an internal mod?
Martin is the best person to answer your questions but AFAIK yes it can be added to any amp master volume or not. I think the fitting of it would depend on the amp.
If you do a search for jtm45 there are a few clips of a power scaled JTM45 Martin did which will give you an idea of what it can do. Also go on youtube and watch the suhr badger clip - thats very good
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It's an internal mod as it has to be wired to the 'heart' of the amp. It also requires two extra pots to be added for the controls of the power scaling - one for the scaling itself and a master volume to help balance the signal properly. It's quite a labour intensive process and there can be problems with it - it's not a perfect technology.
In my opinion, it's a nice thing to have but it's expensive. You're looking at around £200ish (from memory, don't quote me!) to have it fitted to an amp, plus the amp itself will need to have space inside to have it installed. It works best on low powered amps up to around 50w.
It depends what you want to use the amp for. If you really want control at pretty low volumes, then that's the way to go but you pay for it. If you just want something to take the edge off the volume at gig levels, then a master volume is cheap, easy to fit and it works great. I have just a simple master volume on both my JTM45/100 and my Super Lead Klipp.
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PS can be fitted to any amp, but I'm not doing it any more.
Firstly, it's very time consuming as each amp is different and requires a fair amount of R&D time, which I no longer have.
Secondly, when I increased prices to go some way towards a more reasonable price (about the same as a good attenuator), all of a sudden no-one wanted to pay that much. Fair enough. :roll:
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Sounds good Alan!
If after doing the comparisons you decide to sell the Plexi, drop me a line and I'll take it off your hands :)
Dave, I'll give you first option on it if I come to moving it on ..... and yes getting Martin to mod the Jtm45 to plexi spec was something I thought long and hard about at the time. Martin certainly offered to do it for me for a very reasonable price. In hindsight I probably should have done that.
That's all water under the bridge now though. I may have another tough decision to make in a few weeks !
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Look forward to hearing some clips - the Vox clip you posted sounded excellent so will be interested in how you get on with a plexi clone :)
Thanks Kevin. Yeah I am a bit of a clip-meister. I'll certainly be doing some of the Plexi. I wish my chops were a little better, though. I find it amazing how so many people judge an amp clip by the standard of the playing, not by the tone of the amp or the actual recording.
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Actually..... Me too! :D
I was gonna build it myself but saw a good deal on one that I couldn't pass up. My build may now be an 18W or maybe even a 100W from Metro. I will report on how it sounds once it arrives. Can't wait!
hey Ninja, did you win the Ceriatone Plexi that sold on ebay a couple of days ago ? If so, it was me you were bidding against !!
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[Dave, I'll give you first option on it if I come to moving it on .....
Top stuff - thanks matey! I only need a 50w plexi to round out the collection ;)
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Actually..... Me too! :D
I was gonna build it myself but saw a good deal on one that I couldn't pass up. My build may now be an 18W or maybe even a 100W from Metro. I will report on how it sounds once it arrives. Can't wait!
hey Ninja, did you win the Ceriatone Plexi that sold on ebay a couple of days ago ? If so, it was me you were bidding against !!
Yes it was! Sorry mate :P I seem to be getting into a habit of bidding against fellow forum members from here! :( I got lucky on it because I came home, switched on PC and then there it was, with only 3 minutes to go. I hadn't even seen it before then. I was gonna order one very soon so I thought why not :twisted:
Actually..... Me too! :D
I was gonna build it myself but saw a good deal on one that I couldn't pass up. My build may now be an 18W or maybe even a 100W from Metro. I will report on how it sounds once it arrives. Can't wait!
Build the 18w TMB then let me know how it sounds, I've been gas'ing for a lower wattage plexi recently :P
I sure will, but it might not happen for a while though!
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:o OMG someone won an original handwired Superbass for £450 last night! I thought I got a good deal :?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1973-Marshall-Superbass_W0QQitemZ260219982845QQihZ016QQcategoryZ10171QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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:o OMG someone won an original handwired Superbass for £450 last night! I thought I got a good deal :?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1973-Marshall-Superbass_W0QQitemZ260219982845QQihZ016QQcategoryZ10171QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I think you got a good deal if you don't want a PPIMV on the amp. I didn't bid higher because I knew that paying a tech to install a PPIMV would cost somewhere between £60-£100. Ceriatone will install a PPIMV on a new amp for an extra £8, so for me it made sense to buy new in the end.
That superbass on ebay was pretty tatty I have to say. Also, when the buyer states that the impedance switch is set on 16 ohms, that strongly indicates to me that it has had a replacement OT at some point. Both those things mark it down pretty heavily. For a techically-able person it was a pretty good buy I suppose. You got the better amp I'm sure !
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Yeah I did think that but it's still a good value for a vintage amp, Musicground would have charged £1500 for it :lol: Quite a risk buying a vintage amp too though I guess, because you could end up with a total lemon. I think our Ceriatones would probably sound equally as good if not better hopefully :wink: I'm going to be using mine with a hotplate but may decide to install a master in the future. Are you going to get a half power switch installed on it too?
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Are you going to get a half power switch installed on it too?
No I didnt bother with that. I've heard several folks report that a pentode/triode switch on the output tubes is a fairly useless mod, as the triode circuit changes the tone way too much, and not in a good way.
For me, if the PPIMV and Hotplate aren't enough, I'll be trying JJ 6V6's, which should bring the wattage down to about 25-30. Apparently you need to use the JJ's because they are the only ones (including NOS) that are robust eanough to handle the plate voltages. They are not a true 6V6, but something similar, really. Once biased, you then need to use double the cab impedance of the amp output (ie. 8 ohm amp output into a 16 ohm cab), to compensate for the impedance mismatch which is generated. I don't understand it, but I've been told by folks at TGP, who I trust, that it would be fine.
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Fthe AC30HH I got
So I ordered the Plexi 50W lead 1987 from Nik at Ceriatone yesterday.
One of my biggest problems is that I'm a one amp kind of guy (I'd rather have all my money invested in one amp rather that have TWO CHEAP ONES.
:rock:
C'mon man!
You have two great amps... stop crying!
Get the two and make them work for you
(and I hope you're not saying that they're cheap... really hope)
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:rock:
C'mon man!
You have two great amps... stop crying!
Get the two and make them work for you
(and I hope you're not saying that they're cheap... really hope)
I am not complaining at all. Far from it. I am truly blessed to have access to both amps.
Both amps are truly great amps and, for my budget, they are both quite expensive. The struggle will be to choose between them, as I cannot afford to keep both and will only be able to keep one. There may be some crying then.
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hummm ok! :D
I know how it is... here in Brazil you can buy an used car instead of a Vox AC30 or a Plexi...
Only the biggest bands here can afford something like this :cry:
(or those who have a good job and play sometimes with a band, but then, usually you cannot have a serious band...)
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Plexi incoming !!
Got the email this morning. The amp shipped yesterday. From what I've heard, Ceriatone shipping usually takes about 5 days (BTW, this is bang on the original time estimate by Nik at Ceriatone).
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Top stuff!
Means it's coming my way in about a fortnight ;) :lol:
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Good stuff hamfist! :D
Mine (coming from Martin) should be about 6/8 weeks. 8)
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Top stuff!
Means it's coming my way in about a fortnight ;) :lol:
Could be Dave. Do we need to discuss a price yet ? :wink:
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Top stuff!
Means it's coming my way in about a fortnight ;) :lol:
Could be Dave. Do we need to discuss a price yet ? :wink:
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What colour did you go for in the end Sam? Blue?
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Yeah most probably blue, with black panels and white chicken-head knobs. 8) Although Martin said we can work the final details out when he has to order the materials, so I've got some time to change my mind. :lol:
Deposit all done and dusted though! :D
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Top stuff Sam :)
Alan - I'm looking forward to your Plexi review. Who knows, you may like it! It depends how much you value your clean/just breaking up tones. Plexis just love to rock :twisted:
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This is getting interesting..any news?
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Mine came on Thursday, but didn't get to play it til today since I was at my gf's til this afternoon. I've been thinking about it the whole time I was there lol she wasn't too pleased! :lol: Here's a cr@ppy pic. My phone camera doesn't work too well in indoor lighting:
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/Kaz2550/DSC00152.jpg)
I haven't been able to hear it opened up yet but the first impression is the immense clarity that this amp has. I know it's cliche but it picks up every little nuances of your playing it forces you to concentrate a lot on your picking techniques. People who think JCM800s are unforgiving should give these a try.
Cleans and on the edge breakup sounds are all I've been able to play so far as this amp is insanely loud. However, the cleans and breakup sound are beautiful especially on the neck pickup playing higher notes. Notes just bloom out as you play them and it's a very addictive feeling.
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to play this amp with more than just a little gain at home volume so I will need to install a master volume or power scaling on this amp at some point. Hotplate on -16dB as you all know sounds really fizzy so it's not really worth playing it that way. I knew that from the start so I'm not complaining at all, just confirming that this amp is a monster and if you want to use this at home you definitely need a master installed!
I'm looking forward to hearing how you guys find yours when you get them!
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Nice review Ninja! Really can't wait for mine now.
this amp is a monster and if you want to use this at home you definitely need a master installed!
I'm looking forward to hearing how you guys find yours when you get them!
Glad I'm having the master installed on mine then- cleans and mild-breakup is cool but raging distortion is what will be used most! :twisted:
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Mine will also have the PPIMV installed. At an extra $15 it seemed madness not to.
I'm planning on using about -8dB on the hotplate plus any further required volume reduction with the PPIMV. We'll have to wait and see if that's enough.
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Cool, I'm looking into installing power scaling on this amp. if it seems too difficult I'll just get a master installed.
Just to give you an idea, without a pedal, volume on 5-6 is about AC/DC gain, and 8-10 gets you into VH territory.
I tried it with my Zoom Hyperlead pedal today and it does a very good JCM800 sound too. Pure 80's grind. Not sure if I need to keep my 2210 now. Any takers? :wink:
This amp takes pedals very very well. Or rather, I get the feeling that when people design pedals they have these amps in mind when they design those pedals.
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Cool, I'm looking into installing power scaling on this amp. if it seems too difficult I'll just get a master installed.
Martin W. installed power scaling on the Ceriatone Jtm45 I used to have. The PS worked really, really well. I was hugely impressed by the technology and Martin's installation. You live in the right area of the country as well. If I lived nearer, I'd have got my Ac30 power-scaled in a heartbeat.
I'll be able to let you know in a week or two how effective a PPIMV, on it's own, is on one of these amps.
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OK, well the plexi head arrived today, 5 days after leaving Malaysia. Quite impressive really.
All seems to work properly. No shipping damage, which is a relief. And all the transformers are still straight !
The cab seems reasonable, but definately not quite as sturdy or as well made as a Matamp/Martamp head cab for example, or my AC30's head cab. Can't complain though, I think the head cab itself was only another $150, which is about £75. No complaints about the quality of the amp as yet.
I haven't had much of a chance to play it. But enough to realise that it is a loud amp. Starts to break up very early too, about 2 on the vols. Max gain has more saturation and sustain than I was expecting.
Can get easy home volumes using -8dB on the hotplate and also the PPIMV.
Since I played it I've taken the JJ's pre's out and replaced with NOS Mullards. power tubes are JJ E34L's, which I shall leave in situ. Also received a pair of new greenbacks this afternoon, which have gone into the 4x12 to replace a couple of G12H-30's that were in there. So a lot has actually changed since i did play it for a couple of minutes.
I'll get a much better impression of it tommorow.
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First impressions on the tone then Alan? They're a gain beast aren't they?
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First impressions on the tone then Alan? They're a gain beast aren't they?
As I said, starts breaking up significantly at 2 (unlike my Jtm45, which didn't get the same amount of gain until about 5 on the dial). Max gain is much gainier than I expected.
I can't even comment on the tone really. When I played it, it was through a 4x12 cab in which I strongly dislike two of the speakers (I bought a 4x12 in which I like the cab, but really hate the speakers).Although even through that, it sounded pretty good. I've swapped those speakers out now, so next time I play it, it should be up to the appropriate standard.
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Cool. Looking forward to hearing your full review :)
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Looking forward to hearing your full review :)
Me too! :D
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Oh no, I knew this would happen. I can't choose between them (the Plexi and my AC30).
Review coming later today. i just need to let my ears stop ringing and let my head settle a bit.
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Ha ha!
They're so different I'm not surprised Alan!
Clean/crunchy and creamy smooth?
or
Loud, biting and rocking?
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Ha ha!
They're so different I'm not surprised Alan!
Clean/crunchy and creamy smooth?
or
Loud, biting and rocking?
Dave, the way I set them up, they are surprisingly similar actually.
Firstly, getting a couple of greenbacks in to replace the couple of G12H30's (55Hz) I had in the 4x12 was a huge relief. So the cab is now loaded with 2 x standard G12M re-issues, one Scumback H75 and one Scumback M75. Almost anything would sound nice through this cab, IMO !
OK, back to the amps, whereas the AC30 just gets vague and woolly past about 10-11 o'clock on the dial, the Plexi stays tight and just gets crunchier and rockier ! - really nice ! Somehow I still actually prefer the lower gain sounds of the EF86 channel in the Vox to the same type of sounds in the Plexi. The Vox definately has more bite in that gain range. Think of Pete T's tones in the Who. that's the sort of tones I'm talking about. The Vox's low gain distortion has a more grainy, biting quality about it that really slices through a mix like a knife. But then as you increase the gain on both amps, the situation reverses and the Vox flubs out, whereas the Plexi just does what it's supposed to - stays tight, and crunches more !
The Plexi also made me want to tun my delay off more - just didn't seem to need it as much. The Plexi is also a treat to play the volume knob on. Very responsive. I'm normally a vol knob on 10 kind of guy, but this amp could tempt me to experiment a bit (if I keep it ! :wink: ).
Volume-wise, I found keeping the PPIMV at 11:00 or above really doesn't affect the tone noticeably at all. ThE PPIMV on it's own would not be enough IMO to get decent tone at living room volumes. You could play it that low, but it would be a bit fizzy and harsh. However, just add in -8dB with a hotplate and all was very good at very amenable home volumes. Also bear in mind that my cab is mostly full of quite low efficiency speakers, so this does help.
I was expecting the amp to be much brighter than it is. I've never played a Plexi in anger (with distortion I mean) before, but their reputation is to be quite a bright, cutting, over harsh amp at times, that defnately needs the treble to be well controlled. I don't actually know what value bright cap Ceriatone put in them - might have something to do with it. Playing on the normal channel was definately not bright enough for me. Playing just the treble channel, was not especially bright and cutting, just a bit thin, without some of the normal channel blended in with it. I suspect I'll uses the amp with both channels blended at about the same level - so voiced pretty ideally for me really.
I really am torn between the two amps at the moment. I think the Plexi is actually more versatile, as it is much more convincing in a higher range of gains than the Vox. However, the Vox still has my heart on those crunchy low gain tones that I love so much. I think I really need to try out the Ceriatone in a band situation, to get a better idea.
unfortunately I haven't got any loud gigs or rehearsals coming up. My band is in need of a drummer so everything has just ground to a halt. I will play the Plexi and the 4x12 at church on sunday, but it's always a bit of a battle to keep my volume low enough to keep all the folks happy. I wonder if our minister will have a coronary when I wheel in the 4x12. he'll learn to love it in the end !!
Oh well, thats' about it for now. I'm sure more bits and pieces will come back to me later. I'll also try to get some clips recorded over the next few days - school holidays are not the easiest time to do that though. I'll do my best.
Alan
(http://www.box.net/shared/static/rt80rdvoks.jpg)
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Great review Alan. They really are different beasts, and in my experience you've highlighted what I also think each amp does best. They really do have their own "thing" and from what I've heard, this is how I see the amp tones (there's an overlap in the middle where either amp sounds equally good):
Clean --------> Light crunch --------> Heavy Crunch --------> Rock!
Vox wins ----------------------<----->-------------------- Marshall wins
The PPIMV affects the presence circuit which is why the plexi sounds better with it over 12 o'clock. Below that you basically have zero negative feedback and the amp is loose, flubby and gainy. The PPIMV is best for knocking the edge off the volume when gigging or rehearsing. It's no Power Scaling ;)
Also, your comment about lots of treble really applies to JCM800s. Plexis, if they're done right, sound more rounded and less cutting than the amps with the extra gain stage.
I'm looking forward to the clips!
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Nice graphic Dave ! :wink:
My problem in deciding is that I tend to use the sounds right about where they both sound good, but in slightly different ways.
At church, the Vox probably has the edge. With my rock band (when we get another drummer), I'm sure the Plexi would edge it.
Hmmm. Decisions, decisions. :roll:
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Keep both and become an amp whore like me and Hunter ;)
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Alan's review and Dave's diagram are re-enforcing my hysteria to get mine! NEED AN AMP SOON! I'm sick of playing through my Smokey. :lol:
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Alan's review and Dave's diagram are re-enforcing my hysteria to get mine! NEED AN AMP SOON! I'm sick of playing through my Smokey. :lol:
Sam,
This Plexi and my AC30 are the two best amps I have ever owned or played (and that includes an awful lot of expensive amps, Marshall, Cornford, Bogner, Laney, Blackstar, Engl, Martamp (of course !), Orange, Hiwatt, Zinky etc) . Ailean's Rockerverb 50 is fairly close behind. The Blackstar Artisan 30 also deserves a special mention too and was very, very nice (but would have benefitted from a bigger cab).
You will LOVE the amp but consider getting a Hotplate for it, if you intend playing it much at home.
BTW, apparently, patience is a virtue !!
Alan
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This Plexi and my AC30 are the two best amps I have ever owned or played (and that includes an awful lot of expensive amps, Marshall, Cornford, Bogner, Laney, Blackstar, Engl, Martamp (of course !), Orange, Hiwatt, Zinky etc) . Ailean's Rockerverb 50 is fairly close behind. The Blackstar Artisan 30 also deserves a special mention too and was very, very nice (but would have benefitted from a bigger cab).
Alan
I've already ordered the thing and you're still managing to give me extreme GAS! :lol: :oops: Awesome.
Yeah I think a hotplate will follow eventually. Although first will come a cab. It's extremely frustrating that I'm going to be running such a great amp through a god-awful 1x12 cab- converted from a rubbish little practice amp. I wouldn't even have that if I hadn't convinced a mate of mine to give it to me! I just have no money for anything better yet.
Oh and patience...? What's that? :wink:
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Hey Alan - sounds like you are going to need to sell a kidney and convert to the dark side with TF and Hunter...you're never gonna choose between the 2 :)
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Decision is now made !
Plexi stays, Vox goes. It was a very tight decision, but all in all, I think the plexi suits what I play overall a bit better. It is more flexible in the range of gain that it is happy in.
So Kidneys stay intact, thank God.
Sorry Dave, you'll have to be ordering your own, but I can thoroughly recommend them !
Anybody looking for an absolutely mint Heritage AC30 head, with a number of great NOS tubes in, check out ebay. BIN is £500.
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*Checks pockets*
hmmm... I'm only £499.95 short. I can throw in 2 cats? :D
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*Checks pockets*
hmmm... I'm only £499.95 short. I can throw in 2 cats? :D
I'm sure you've got more guitars than you really need, Rich. Sell one of them to raise the money to buy the AC30. Simple !
You need at least one amp for every guitar, or else they get lonely !
On the other point, I'm not sure you, or I are big enough or strong enough to actually throw your cats. :wink:
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I give it two months until you want your AC30 back Alan. I'll buy your Plexi then ;)
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I give it two months until you want your AC30 back Alan. I'll buy your Plexi then ;)
It's quite possible that might happen Dave. At least the AC30HH is pretty freely available, and I wouldn't have lost too much money on the whole saga.
The only way I'll really know is by living with the Plexi for several weeks/months.
Amp-changing addiction - it's a tough thing to handle :cry:
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You need at least one amp for every guitar, or else they get lonely !
I've got 3 amps and 1 guitar :)
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You need at least one amp for every guitar, or else they get lonely !
I've got 3 amps and 1 guitar :)
I remember seeing at least 4 guitars !!! And I'll hear none of this rubbish that they're Sue's.