Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: varkunus on April 10, 2008, 11:29:04 AM
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Right well with help from you guys i should be getting the ibanez rg1570 in lefty. I will then put a alinco V warpig in the bridge, a irish tour in the middle, and a cold sweat in the neck. After that i will hopefully get it set up with insanely wel by my guitar teachers mate who is renounded for his set ups where i live. Then i will take it to a tech, and get a coil split or maybe a coil tap for single coil sounds. Maybe you guys could tell me which is best. And then possibly i would get a killswtich installed.
Now at the moment i have a marshall dsl401, and its good, better than some. But in a band situation it lacks that big sound i want. And the sound almost becomes sterile. So later on (probs a year or two) after getting the guitar, and i have enough money im thinking of buying a new amp. Now it would be between the mesa single recto, and the engl blackmore. Both of which im gona find very hard to try, although i might well do. Now from clips on youtube the ENGL seems to be a bigger sound. Now i like playing lots of stuff so need something versatile, i want something which can get that sabbath grind, with lots of mids. All the way up to megadeth, with a big, clear, sustained, rich, but not to fuzzy sound. Also i want decent cleans which i heard the ENGL has, and good overdrive tone for hendrix and such. Also if possible i wana be able to get a good gary moore/santana tone.
So in summary, for my cleans i want a shimmery fender style cleans, with that almost woody element. For light overdrive i want a lynard skynard/allman brothers sound. For distortion i want a sorta sabbathy sound/led zeplin/purple. And for heavy stuff i want something which can pull off megadeth/some metalicca with a big sounding bass etc.
Cheers guys.
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well i can see its getting views, so could someone give me feedback on these two amps. Or others which might be better
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If I were going to get a Mesa, it wouldn't be the single rect. It'd have to be the double or triple. ENGL make really nice amps, so that got my vote.
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First question; do you really NEED that level of power?
Oddly enough an orange rocker series would, also being both greatly cheaper and significantly more reliable than the mesa, be a quite decent choice.
They aren't quite as high-gain as you might like but you could set them up for power amp distortion more easily and warpigs should push it enough for at least the Sabbath sound. You could then use the saved cash for an overdrive pedal for the thrash stuff.
And anyway; it's always so much more fun to freak out people by outpowering them with a lower-wattage class A than underwhelm them with a monstrous class A/B which is about the same net output but can't be dialled in so easily (especially a MESA!) or cranked so well.
And for cleans the rocker has a fender-esque clean tone up to the point where the power amp breaks up (which I doubt you'll reach in any real situation outside of a stadium/arena.
Plus Gary Moore is listed on the Orange site as an endorser so you know it'll get that creamy saturation seeing as he uses PG blues in his LPs.
If you doubt the distortion levels of the rockers Rob Chappers, of The Black Hand and Orange amps demonstrator, reckons they have more gain than the thunderverb series, which is aimed at Nu Metallers.
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All the way up to megadeth
Sorry, not a useful post here, but I'm almost certain that that is the first time I've read/heard such a phrase! Amusing!
Roo
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http://www.nme.com/video/id/RjkZHBJd5OY/search/tuning
On this video the engl sounds much bigger, and the mesa sounds more refined.
for the most part, my covers and shitee are gona be anything up to sabbath. But for my own sound, and band i want something big sounding. Thats why i was thinking these two amps.
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To be brutally honest with you, it seems too soon to be considering this if you've not even got your guitar yet. When you have your guitar in hand, you can take it on a road trip to some gear shops to try out amps in person. Sure, you might not have any near where you live, but this is a big investment, you should take the time/travel out to hear how the amps sound in person with your guitar!
Also, the longer you wait, the more cash you have to spend (as long as you're saving ;)).
Also +1, the last thing I want to do is put you off buying a nice big amp, but these suckers with a 4 x 12 (or a 4 x 12 and a [2 x 15, 2 x8], tee hee :D) are BIG, HEAVY, AWKWARD and take up LOTS of space!
For me, that's no problem, because I can convince my wife that I need to put it downstairs, I can lift (just about) and drive them myself. My parents are very laid back, but I can imagine they'd not have been happy at all with me getting something like that at that age. Just something to bear in mind!
Roo
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i don't have first hand experience of this, but i have been told that a set of decent tubes and a re-bias will transform a Marshall DSL, give it a much bigger, more defined sound. it would certainly be a much cheaper option than buying a Mesa or Engl. you mention Gary Moore, i saw him live last year and his main live amp was a Dsl, sounded pretty good!
just a thought before you go off buying an amp you might not need.
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So in summary, for my cleans i want a shimmery fender style cleans, with that almost woody element. For light overdrive i want a lynard skynard/allman brothers sound. For distortion i want a sorta sabbathy sound/led zeplin/purple. And for heavy stuff i want something which can pull off megadeth/some metalicca with a big sounding bass etc.
I voted for Engl Blackmore. I've never owned one but I have had a Mesa Single Recto (Rect-o-verb head) since '99 & currently use an Engl Savage 120 head.
I think the Mesa will give you 3 of the 4 sounds you want (the "vintage high gain" sucks) but only 2 at once - it's a 2 channel amp & the voicing controls aren't footswitchable (**NB: My Mesa is one of the very first Single Recto models which had several design flaws that may have been ironed out in newer models)
The Engl is a 4 channel amp. Based on my experience with the Savage it will get you close to all of the sounds.
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hhm i know stack are flipping awkard. I mean my marshal dsl401 is heavy enough. But i would proberly just a 2 X 12, not need for a 4 really. Although would the 2 sound better than 1. And i duno if my amp can get the sounds i want. i want a big sound as i said. And ive considered changing tubes and stuff. Maybe 6055s or w/e. But i dont if it will works because its pretty fizzy. Although not as bad as people make out. And on the ENGL what are the different channel? Clean> Overdrive>Lead>Heavy Lead? And what tubes does it use?
Now i know the ENGL sounds really big and whatever, but can you tame it down for subtle overdrive. Like thick and creamy sounding. And will it get metalicca style sounds. Also the ENGL isnt that expensive i dont think, because if i sold my DSL and then brought it. How much would a cab and footpedal cost? And would you say the ENGL cab or something else.
And i know it sounds like im planning my whole future before i even got my guitar, and in a sense i am. But i want make sure that if i upgrade that everything will work. Etc
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No matter as to how good the quality I abjectly refuse to pay over £100 for an ENGL footswitch (and that's not even the MIDI-enabled ones; it's for a standard floor box with four buttons). Add to that a head that ritually costs over a grand (and possibly a half I haven't checked on the Blackmore but ENGL prices range from about £700-£2000+ new as far as I know) and a cab which costs about half a grand you would be much better off buying a simpler amp, more akin to what you are used to with the Marshall (ie; twin channel and using the volume control and a booster to vary your sound between your requirements). And the cab (which is not the best you will find for the money by any means).
I went through a phase of wanting an ENGL at one point but I found that I had to pay megabucks to get the sound I was after and even then it took so long to dial in that when I tried it I couldn't get rid of the ridiculous amount of treble the things have.
What you need is to concentrate on tonal quality and not gizmos; you'll save money that way and you'll sound better; it's win-win!
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I own an ENGL Blackmore, with an ENGL 2x12 cab (V30's). It's a killer amp! From GREAT cleans to killer high gain.
And it's unforgiving, it'll show mistakes. I hate when amps cover up sloppiness :roll:
And you won't have to crank it to 3 or 4 to get a great sound, the power section sounds very good even at 'sensible' volume levels.
Now, I have not tried a single recto so I won't try to compare them..
-Zaned
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so what do i do then? And can it get a deep purple sound? And is there any alternate switches? I mean at the end of the day it dont effect sound quality just literally an impulse to change the channel, and countour etc. And what do you mean there trebley as hell? In most of the vids they dont sound trebly. And who sells its for a cheap price and ship to UK. Also which cab?
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ENGL will do you a multiple switch setup (which seems to be designed for your inconvenence) at a cost of around £30 per pedal I believe. However you could use a set of Marshall footswitches to the same ends.
The amps I tried, the Thunder combo and the Fireball, had enormous amounts of treble. They made my humbuckers (they were stock at the time and not what one would call bright) sound like strat/telecaster coils. This may have been due to the influence of the cabinet, which is known for being very trebly.
The people who demo/endorse ENGL amps are all, to my knowledge, humbucker users. This may be to counteract the highs.
However, if you are prepared to put enough effort in you may find a setting which gets rid of these tonal problems.
ENGL do several variations on all their cabinets. Be sure to get a closed back one as that should give you the right sort of push.
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Err.. if this isn't gonna happen for a year or two I'd wait and assess things closer to the time......
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because it determines what sort of job i need etc. So your all saying there very trebly amps? And does it have seperate EQs for each channel?
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guys? so can the ENGL do good overdriven tone. Not just full on metal kinda thing
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ahh i just remember my teacher highly recommend VHT. What do you think of them? Are they versatile i really like there sound. And what models should i check out and what prices
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Well a quick google search on the Blackmore tells me it doesn't have separate EQ for each channel.
Is there any particular reason you are looking strictly at just the Mesa and Blackmore?
The ENGL Screamer I had didn't have too much treble. Granted, it was quite bright, but not uncontrollably bright by any means.
And yes, using a £10 Marshall/Laney/e.t.c. footswitch with the ENGLs works fine, so that's not really an issue.
As for VHT- "are they versatile" is a very broad question. Obviously it depends on the individual model, and how many sounds you are hoping to get. A VHT Pitbull might suit you - (Never tried one myself though unfortunately!)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sBK__6AgDr8
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The people who demo/endorse ENGL amps are all, to my knowledge, humbucker users. This may be to counteract the highs.
One notable exception would be Ritchie Blackmore himself! :D
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The people who demo/endorse ENGL amps are all, to my knowledge, humbucker users. This may be to counteract the highs.
One notable exception would be Ritchie Blackmore himself! :D
Yes but since Deep Purple has he really done anything important recently besides whinge about Ian Gillian and take royalties from those amps and his records?
I set myself up for that one, eh!
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:lol:
Yeah I'm not a big fan or follower of him really (except for being a fan of Deep Purple).
But yeah, considering the thread is largely concerning the Blackmore amp I couldn't let than one go. :wink:
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well although its really outa my pricerange what about the vht sig x, its a new model
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anyway in vids like this the ENGL dont sound to trebly http://youtube.com/watch?v=qyA_vwYixyU
and couldnt you just EQ the treble?
Although though in this http://youtube.com/watch?v=GHfucVUzlh4 it does sound trebly. But is that just been EQed wrong? And how does it cut above in a band situation? I am in a band with me on lead, another rhythm guitarist and a drummer. We are looking for vocals and bass in the future. So how would it cope?
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And can it get a deep purple sound?
i demo'ed the marshall vintage modern series the other week (50w head/4x12 cab) with a stock usa strat. i thought it was Deep Purple in sound as well as the colour.
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I've got a pair of Blackmore heads as part of an endorsement deal, and I've previously owned Mesa Rec's too, and Soldano's. I personally prefer the ENGL tone over all of them. It's a very straight ahead amp too and roadworthy. I use a G System for switching the amps now, but I also rewired a Marshall footswitch using a stereo lead to switch channels and master A/B's. No need to spend £100 if you do it that way. You could buy a pair of ENGL's for the price of a recto. Stereo rig...........yeah!!
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to treberly?
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crime could you add me on msn lord_varkunus@hotmail.com
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The youtube clip is a poor representation of how the amps sound in the flesh. The amps cut, but they are not a toppy amp if you eq the high and presence controls moderately.
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add me or gimi ur MSN
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crimes please?
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Sorry man, don't have MSN. What do you need to know? You can email me if you like.
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well just you opinion on the amp. And could you do some sound samples for me or something on youtube. Like of playing some mid heavy grinding sabbath, to smooth gary moore, to agressive megadeth, to woody sounding stevie ray vaughn, to shimmery fender cleans.
If you could that would be immense
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http://www.myspace.com/crimesofpassionrock
There are some clips of the ENGL in action here. Pickups are Bareknuckle Miracle Man and Cold Sweat neck.
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nice band, instruments sound megadethy, and the vocals sounds maideny. Nice mix
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well listening to the songs, it sounds really good nice big bass like i was hoping for. What cab you using? And can it do anything lighter, a sound i find really hard to achieve is sabbath. Its really middy and grindy. Could you try that?
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The cab for recording was a Marshall 4x12 double tracked using V30's and Fane speakers. My cabs for live are ENGL Pro 4x12's. If you used the crunch channel rather than the lead, then I reckon you would be able to nail the Sabbath sound you are looking for.
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and the gary moore type smooth leads? Also how do the marshall v30 cab differ from the ENGLs. And i wouldnt use a 412 probs a 212 maybe a 112. Something i can still take in the back of a peugot 306, and something practical for band practice in my mates garage
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Hey Andy, I hope you don't mind but I added you guys on MySpace, absolutely love the music :o That Pretty in Blood is absolutley gorgeous, really cool stuff!
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so will it do smooth leads? And people on youtube are saying it wont do vintage very well. Could you guys clarify
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Seriously, you're moving way too fast. Sounds like you want to buy the amp RIGHT NOW, without hearing it with your guitar (which you don't have yet), or testing it for yourself somewhere.
Dude, you REALLY need to chill out on this one! You're putting loads of messages up here and asking people to comment on something which won't happen for another year (in your own words). That's kind of a waste of people's time, because in a year, you'll want to check out all the current options again anyway...
Sorry to be blunt, but I figured it's best to tell it like it is...
Roo
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ok sorry guys. But i might be able to make some fast cash here and now. Ive found a way to beat some casino. And if i put some big bets on i could make a couple of hundred a day
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Granted, the Blackmore has a hefty amount of high end AVAILABLE.
If I were to mod it, I'd change the treble pot from linear to logarithmic, to make it easier on the small adjustments. But it works quite fine for me so I haven't even seriously considered.
A good starting point for a strat with single coils: (in clock format)
Bass 13 o'clock
Middle 12 o'clock
Treble 9 o'clock
Lead Pres. 9 o'clock
Brighter settings for humbuckers, of course. And if you want the mids to focus a little more on the low mids, turn down the mids a bit and switch on contour (boosts low mids).
Zaned
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if i put some big bets on i could make a couple of hundred a day
Or... you could lose? :lol:
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now i found a system which works provided the game doesnt have a low maximum bet, and doesnt have zeros. Anyway that idea is out the window, the theory works but in a practical sense it doesnt. Any of you guys got any ideas for making easy money? And the guitar i would be using is an ibanez rg1570 with alinco V warpigs in bridge, cold sweat in neck and irish tour in middle. Would i be able to get a good vintage tone from that?
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Best way I found to get easy money is to do a degree in chemistry, do a PhD in pharmacology and chemistry, then get a job in research.
If I was really clever, I'd have trained to become a plumber :(
There's no such thing as "easy money". Get a part-time job and earn it, and give up the pipe-dreams of winning millions or scamming some online gaming site. Besides, it's more rewarding to buy something with money you had to work for, at least in my experience that's true.
Roo
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If I was really clever, I'd have trained to become a plumber :(
thats how i feel most days!!
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no ive had part time jobs, but i have extreme food hypersensativity (and allergy) and most of the jobs round here are in catering and restaurants. So im buggered, i might apply to a music shop, or maybe even a garden centre. Any of you guys got any ideas for part time job, and dont say wash cars, mow lawns because ive thought of them. Something sensible which might tie in with school
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Firstly.
Steer clear of the Single Rectifier. Its really not a very good amp, many other amps in the price range are far superior. Anything from the ENGL camp is an improvement, even the Peavey JSX etc, are better. - All my opinion ofcourse.
All the Engl amps are good - But seriously dude, don't rush too fast, and don't gamble all your cash just to buy an amp...
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yeah thanks for the advice thats why im researching really early, so i dont make a rushed disition. And as my music tastes cycle like the do over about 1 year, goes from blues, metal, rock, dance, jazz. Most things really i can see what sounds i need to archieve. But the thing my amp lacks is that really big low end, although i still dont know how the ENGL copes with vintage rock tones.
Also crimes of passion what pickups you using?
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Firstly.
Steer clear of the Single Rectifier. Its really not a very good amp, many other amps in the price range are far superior. Anything from the ENGL camp is an improvement, even the Peavey JSX etc, are better. - All my opinion ofcourse.
All the Engl amps are good - But seriously dude, don't rush too fast, and don't gamble all your cash just to buy an amp...
Not looking for a fight here - this is a genuine question: have you tried a Single Rectifier?
I ask because I played one a couple of months ago, and I was very impressed. I found it very responsive and versatile - plenty of very varied tones on tap and certainly not a one trick pony. It was definitely not short on low end, and could do vintage rock very nicely, particularly if the guitar's volume pot was employed.
I couldn't agree more with the advice not to rush (or gamble) though.
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yeah. Do any of you guys know any shops that stock ENGL near south hamptom, ports, bournemouth way? I knew i heard someone brought a screamer combo from somewhere in southhamptom, any shops? I live on the isle of wight so its a pain in the back side.
And about the ENGL vintage rock tone
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxled2GeX-U i think this sounded decent.
What about SRV sounds, and mild overdrive
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Firstly.
Steer clear of the Single Rectifier. Its really not a very good amp, many other amps in the price range are far superior. Anything from the ENGL camp is an improvement, even the Peavey JSX etc, are better. - All my opinion ofcourse.
All the Engl amps are good - But seriously dude, don't rush too fast, and don't gamble all your cash just to buy an amp...
Not looking for a fight here - this is a genuine question: have you tried a Single Rectifier?
I ask because I played one a couple of months ago, and I was very impressed. I found it very responsive and versatile - plenty of very varied tones on tap and certainly not a one trick pony. It was definitely not short on low end, and could do vintage rock very nicely, particularly if the guitar's volume pot was employed.
I couldn't agree more with the advice not to rush (or gamble) though.
I've played all the recent Mesas except for the Stiletto and the Lonestar series I think.
The step from a single rec and a double rec is huge - I really don't like the Single Rectifiers - I think they're overpriced garbage to be frank.
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so what about the double rectos, although there alot more expensive than the engls
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so what about the double rectos, although there alot more expensive than the engls
Different sound to the ENGLs, but as good as them I guess. Personally not a huge fan of the rectifier's thick wet sound, but it works for alot of people.
Regarding price - Its no >better< than an engl in terms of sound, so you would have to REALLY like the Mesa sound to justify the price tag.
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hhhm, in sound clips on tube and stuff the mesa sounded more concise. So i dont know if this would mean a better vintage tone, although i did prefer the ENGLs heavy sound. But i need an amp which can do vintage aswell, aswell as nice smooth overdrive
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so what about the double rectos, although there alot more expensive than the engls
Different sound to the ENGLs, but as good as them I guess. Personally not a huge fan of the rectifier's thick wet sound, but it works for alot of people.
Regarding price - Its no >better< than an engl in terms of sound, so you would have to REALLY like the Mesa sound to justify the price tag.
It depends what works for you. The Mesa Dual Recto has a massive thick sound, and has 2 modes on the clean channel, and 3 on the 2 gain channels, which mean versatility is pretty expansive. If you want a slightly crisper, more British sound, you can swap out the 6L6 power tubes for EL34s. If, like me, you like a big, thick tone, they are worth looking at.
Engls, to my ears, sound very tight, crisp and powerful, especially on the heavy stuff, but I've only ever heard them played (first hand), not played one myself, so couldn't realy comment on how easy they are to tweak to what you want.
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my main concern is still whether it will get that vintage overdriven sound
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My answer is still the same: You've GOT to try them in a shop. Get your hands wet! Well, not literally wet, that could cause problems... but you get the idea. Get in there *WHEN YOU HAVE GOT YOUR GUITAR* and hear what it sounds like in person!!
Roo
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yeah but as i said i live on the island and each ferry trip is £40 :P thats why im trying to get opinions way in advance, and could you guys recommend other amps that i might missed out
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Well you are going to have to go and get it, so just have one trip where you try things as much as you want.
+1 on waiting until you have the guitar etc, you're style may change and there really is no neccesity to plan this far ahead, if you feel there is, try google + Harmony Central reviews, although they are still not going to be the same as you trying it. Also, do you NEED that much versatility in the amp, personally I would rather develop the versatility as a player etc, and learn how to use the dynamics of a single channel amp
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When you're going to be spending upwards of £1000+ on an amp, and several hundred on a guitar, I think £40 to go and try a load is a no-brainer, to be honest.
As someone else said- you're going to have to either pay for shipping or pay to go and collect it anyway, so when you're ready (i.e. when you have the money) then you can go and test loads, and buy at the same time.
I know what it feels like to fantasise about getting amazing gear NOW, but as everyone is saying, it pays to be patient, take your time, and try FIRST HAND all the gear you are considering.
"Does it have a good vintage sound" is extremely subjective, and what someone here describes as great vintage tone might sound disgusting to your ears.
Basically, without meaning to be too harsh, only you know the sound you want, and that's why there is no substitute for listening to the amps yourself.
ANYWAY- if I wanted a vintage overdrive, neither ENGL or Mesa would be on my shortlist. If I wanted modern metal, they would be at the top. You need to prioirtise what sound you really want I think.
Hope some of that makes sense! :)
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When you're going to be spending upwards of £1000+ on an amp, and several hundred on a guitar, I think £40 to go and try a load is a no-brainer, to be honest.
I know what it feels like to fantasise about getting amazing gear NOW, but as everyone is saying, it pays to be patient, take your time, and try FIRST HAND all the gear you are considering.
Couldn't agree more with the 'cost of testing stuff' argument. I live in Swansea, but I went to Guildford to test the amp I wanted, because the store there had one. A short hop across the Solent to Southampton will be well worth your while in the long run.
I also agree about the need for patience - I pulled the trigger on my amp after about 18 months of saving money, research and testing a load of stuff that got ditched because I didn't like it. The amp I initially thought was 'the one for me' (The Marshall JVM, if you're wondering) ended up getting binned, because when I tried it, it just wouldn't do the sound I had in my head.
You can watch all the demo dvds and Youtube clips in the world, but nothing beats being in the room with what you think you want and finding out if it's really for you.
Anyhow, don't get ahead of yourself - get the guitar sorted first, get comfortable with it, then move onto the amp.
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ahh guys you got the wrong end of the stick i never meant im gona splash 1k without trying the reched thing. But im trying to get your feedback as their reputation as amp builders aswell, just saying then i can try to try out all possible candidates for future amps all in one trip. And i know about trying before buying, i was set on a laney vc-30 was gona buy off woogie (hi there) but turned out when i played it, that it didnt have enough beef. Any other amps you guys would recommends even if they are stabs in the dark
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Fair do's. Good that you appreciate the value of trying stuff first-hand! Good stuff.
As for other amps, maybe a Marshall or a Laney? A Laney GH100L maybe? Again, never tried one myself, but good by all acounts. An Orange also might be cool. They have a very thick, vintage overdrive.
Maybe even a Matamp.
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cool guys
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+ for Laney GH or maybe even the VH100R (which is what I have).
The Orange Rocker 30 is an awesome amp too. But for the Megadeth type of stuff I'd suggest an overdrive pedal for a slight boost.
Also the H+K Switchblade is a very nice head.