Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Ian Price on April 13, 2008, 12:35:05 AM

Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Ian Price on April 13, 2008, 12:35:05 AM
I've been thinking of maybe putting a BKP neck humbucker in my telecaster. The guitar in question is from 1975 and hasn't been messed with in any way (other than getting the bridge pick up wax potted). Getting a humbucker in would require routing and a new scratch plate.

What do people think of this? Is it a good idea or should I get my partner to hide the guitar from me until I stop having urges to butcher it?

Something that could save it is maybe a stacked humbucker - does Tim do such a thing?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Philly Q on April 13, 2008, 12:42:43 AM
Quote from: Ian Price
Something that could save it is maybe a stacked humbucker - does Tim do such a thing?

No, he doesn't.  A stacked humbucker wouldn't sound like a humbucker anyway, it'd sound like a noiseless single-coil, so I don't think that would solve your problem.

As for routing the guitar, I wouldn't do it if it was mine.  I don't mind carving up a new guitar, but if a guitar's been around for 30-odd years without modifications I feel like it's developed its own little soul  :roll:  :oops: .  Which is why I don't buy vintage guitars.

But it's your guitar, your decision.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Jonny on April 13, 2008, 12:45:59 AM
I wouldn't. Vintage is vintage. Leave it alone.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Ian Price on April 13, 2008, 12:47:48 AM
Cheers Phil. The comment about the guitar being around for 30 years and developing it's own soul has bought about a moment of clarity  :)

I am now thinking that whoever owned it before me would probably be extremely annoyed* to find out that a guitar they had once loved was being ripped open for no good reason.




*assuming they are still alive.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: il˙ti on April 13, 2008, 12:48:07 AM
Do it! Death to single coils  :shock:
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Ian Price on April 13, 2008, 12:53:44 AM
Quote from: ilyti
Do it! Death to single coils  :shock:


This doesn't help me (or my guitar). In fact the guitar made a rather loud screeching noise when I read this thread.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: 7thSon on April 13, 2008, 01:16:04 AM
Unless it's an investment piece that you plan to sell on one day....then do it, the Vintage guitar thing is bullshitee anyways, who cares...the guitar is to be played not collected. Plus previous owners could have messed with stuff that you will never know about.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Ian Price on April 13, 2008, 01:20:32 AM
Quote from: 7thSon
Unless it's an investment piece that you plan to sell on one day....then do it, the Vintage guitar thing is bullshiteee anyways, who cares...the guitar is to be played not collected. Plus previous owners could have messed with stuff that you will never know about.


It's not an investment piece. I bought the guitar for the simple reason that it was made in the year I was born and that it was a telecaster. I'm very certain that the previous owner hadn't changed anything on it - I took the guitar apart when I got it and checked all of the date stamps out!

I will probably leave it as it is and buy a guitar that I will be more comfrotable messing around with.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: FernandoDuarte on April 13, 2008, 01:37:03 AM
Change it or sell the guitar and, with the money, buy a hand made Tele looking old with bare knuckles at all  8) (and save a little more money for your next PRS)
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Twinfan on April 13, 2008, 10:06:35 AM
I'd get a Japanese or Mexican Tele cheap second hand and pimp that  8)
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Philly Q on April 13, 2008, 10:22:25 AM
Quote from: Twinfan
I'd get a Japanese or Mexican Tele cheap second hand and pimp that  8)

Agreed, never hurts to have an extra Tele (or two).  If it's viable cost-wise.

Just wondering what sort of tones you're after, Ian?  If you were to get a neck HB it would need to be pretty low output so as not to swamp the bridge pickup.  Stormy Monday probably (not that I'm trying to tell you what to buy!  :wink: ).  Maybe a more powerful Tele neck pickup might get you at least halfway there?
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: MrBump on April 13, 2008, 10:23:03 AM
Quote from: Twinfan
I'd get a Japanese or Mexican Tele cheap second hand and pimp that  8)


+1.  Cheap playability + BKP =  8)
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: AndyR on April 13, 2008, 11:13:06 AM
Quote from: Philly Q
Quote from: Twinfan
I'd get a Japanese or Mexican Tele cheap second hand and pimp that  8)

Agreed, never hurts to have an extra Tele (or two).  If it's viable cost-wise.

Just wondering what sort of tones you're after, Ian?  If you were to get a neck HB it would need to be pretty low output so as not to swamp the bridge pickup.  Stormy Monday probably (not that I'm trying to tell you what to buy!  :wink: ).  Maybe a more powerful Tele neck pickup might get you at least halfway there?


I'd agree with that - what tone are you after? I ended buying a new Baja Tele recently while I was in the middle of trying to restore an old Squier Tele that I'd put a neck humbucker in some years back (non BKP). I was still playing live at the time, and the minute I'd put the humbucker in, the guitar wasn't really usable for the job it had been doing up until then - the neck and bridge just wouldn't work through the same amp settings! So I switched to an Epi SG and LP as my main guitars.

I was trying to put the Squier back to it's original state a month or two back (considering BKPs etc), having awful trouble getting a replacement pickguard that actually fitted (I'd cut the original for the humbucker), and so on... I kinda gave up when I tried a Baja... (the Squier "project" is on the back-burner now).

The only other thing I'd say on hacking your 75 - you said "I bought the guitar for the simple reason that it was made in the year I was born and that it was a telecaster."  - I think you might regret it later on if you change it and then that "year I was born" bit becomes important again...
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Ian Price on April 13, 2008, 12:00:00 PM
Andy - cheers. I think you're right - messing with a guitar that I bought for the very reason of it being made in my year of birth would be a bad thing to do.

Also thanks to all those who asked what tone I am after - I'm looking for a nice warm humbucking tone. I have another thread (PRS GAS alert) that sort of explains the origins of this need. Modifying the tele was my naively cheap way of getting someway towards the sound I heard!
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Philly Q on April 13, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
Just a thought - and apologies for non-BKP pickup content - but have you ever tried the Fender/Bill Lawrence Samarium Cobalt Noiseless neck pickup (as found on the current USA Deluxe Tele)?

It's fairly high output and produces quite a smooth, warm tone.  With distortion it sings in an almost humbuckerish kind of way - reminds me a bit of Clapton's mid-boosted EC Strat tone.

It doesn't sound very much like a "true" Tele neck pickup, not twangy or rootsy at all - it makes me think of a slick, overproduced, 1980s American FM-radio, soft-rock kind of sound (if that's not too ludicrous an analogy  :roll: ).  But in fact, I like it a lot.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: AndyR on April 13, 2008, 12:28:19 PM
That's exactly what I was doing when I modded my Squier! Trying to get a different sound on the cheap... I'd been a strat player fronting a 3-piece for years. Then I was fronting a 4-piece where we added a "lead" guitarist so that I could concentrate on front-man duties.

We were playing blues-country-pop-rock originals (think Tom Petty raised in Devon and living in Surrey!). The tele seemed the way to go initially - an electric I could strum like an accoustic, and I found this Squier real cheap 2nd hand. It was great.

So we had me on a tele, and the other guy on a strat. I started feeling we needed to warm the sound up a bit, and I thought "Keef Richards has a neck humbucker... that's the answer". So I got the chisel out, etc, etc...

The neck sounded great - a bit like a humbucking guitar! - and the bridge sounded great, but no way of using them in the same song (or at the time, even in the same gig! - being frontman, I couldn't keep running to the backline and fiddling).

We reached the conclusion that I ought to be playing a Gibson type guitar in this band, I acquired some Epi's second hand, and I never really used the Squier again!

Sounds like you're the same as me - a "fender" player wanting to move in to "gibson" territory as well. It also sounds like you've got another problem now though (reading the other thread as well) - you're after a nice warm humbucking tone, but falling for a PRS with soapbars in. It might be that the P90 sound is what you're actually after, but it also might be that that particular PRS is one of "your guitars" (ie you pick it up and it's "the one") and it's distracting you from the humbucker quest. Both routes are probably right, but, it's expensive to follow both!

(I really thought I had all this solved a year or two ago with a Line6 Variax, which does do what it says on the tin, but we've bought another 3 guitars and three sets of BKPs since then!)
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: PhilKing on April 14, 2008, 12:37:54 PM
Having lots of vintage guitars I would tell you that if it is original and you like it basically, then  leave it alone.  All of mine that are modified (usually just replacement pickups anyway), were missing the original parts when I got them.  If you still want to do it, then get an after market body that is already cut and swap the parts (then you can put yours back one day and sell on the other - or get a new neck for it!).

If you want a neck humbucker for a tele, then look at a mini-humbucker, they work great and march the bridge pickup realy well.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: badgermark on April 14, 2008, 12:46:28 PM
Could always get a MIM tele and whap a humbucker in the neck and a beefy single in the bridge. The MIMs come with a humbucker route (at least the newer ones do) and are pretty cheap.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Roobubba on April 14, 2008, 01:28:02 PM
Quote from: Philly Q

Agreed, never hurts to have an extra Tele (or two).  



Ewww I feel dirty just reading those words :(
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Philly Q on April 14, 2008, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: Roobubba
Quote from: Philly Q

Agreed, never hurts to have an extra Tele (or two).  


Ewww I feel dirty just reading those words :(

You've been very subtle with your occasional hints, Roo, but I'm starting to get an inkling that maybe you don't like Teles.
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Roobubba on April 14, 2008, 02:26:52 PM
Why? Who could possibly not like that sleek, refined and completely not deviant-esque body shape?

:)
Title: Messing with vintage guitars
Post by: Zaned on April 14, 2008, 04:55:28 PM
Well, if you just replace the pickup without doing any routing to the body / pickguard, the guitar can be returned to its original form.

You said you want a humbucker tone on the bridge? Well, then the only way to go would be something like this: http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/telecaster/cutting-edge/little_59_for_t/

It sounds like a humbucker, not like a single coil.

On the other hand, if you just want to remove the single coil noise, I can recommend Kinman pickups. Without hesitation. I had Kinman's woodstock regular set in a strat that I've since sold to my father, and they were just great. Their slogan "vintage tone without the noise" actually holds water :)

I know this is a BKP forum, but I don't think BKP has a product that would suit the purposes here. Correct me if I'm wrong!

-Zaned