Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: hamfist on April 21, 2008, 08:26:28 AM
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I've been reading the "Metal and acual singing" thread with interest.
Up front, I'll admit I am not greatly familiar with metal. I'm an indy boy at heart, but I'd like to listen through a bit more of this stuff.
Went to Myspace and had a listen to clips of most of the bands that were suggested in the thread, and some of the singing was great.
There's a big BUT coming here though. But .... the guitar sounds to my ears with bands like Nevermore and Periphery sound like a can of bees. Just the worst Marshall MG-like tones I can imagine. DO people actually like guitars to sound like this ? Now I know metal guitarists like a mid-scooped tone, but I thought they liked a lot of bottom end. The songs I listened to didn't seem to have any bottom end either. it was just all harsh, fizzy treble. Tight - yes, but any amp is tight when you take away all the bass. The bass guitar also seemed almost mixed out of the song.
I was expecting to hear guitar tones more like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKxJG0p45Ek .
Can any folks suggest some metal bands who actually have some great singing (don't mind some shouting/grunting etc), but also have earth-moving guitar tones too. Or am I just expecting too much.
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when you say metal, do you also include metal from the 70s, 80s and 90s - on is it just new millenium metal for you?
many older metal bands are keen on having pronounced mids (priest), or even quite strong bass (sabbath).
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* Warning * naive middle aged man question coming up :
Does Zakk Wylde's 'Black Label Society' count as Metal ?
If so ( whilst I am usually a fan of the more Bluesy / Jazzy / mellow stuff )
I absolutely love the huge, thick sounds that B.L.S produce - and Zakk's own meaty lead sound. Especially representative for me are the 'Doom Troopin' concert DVD and Mafia / Sonic Brew albums.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhVPxzq0fBA&feature=related
hell yes
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http://www.myspace.com/periphery
Listen to "The Walk" - Absolutely LOVE their tone.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhVPxzq0fBA&feature=related
hell yes
Yes, that's a better tone. A bit more difficult to assess due to the poor quality of the youtube audio. Still seems a bit lacking in guts (mids ?). Maybe it really is the mids rather than the bass frequencies that my ears are really missing. The singer isn't really the style I was looking for. The singer in Periphery is superb. I really like that style of singing either. I prefer post-punk vocals, not rock, or prog-rock inspired vocals.
I was definately thinking of reasonably modern metal. Definately not from the 70's or 80's. Although I did used to have (and like) Master of Puppets. Was that late 80's or 90's ?
OK, just had a listen to Black Label Society. Don't like the vocals, but that's just my opinion of course. The guitars have more bass frequencies, but still lacking in mids for me. I'm not sure if I can train my brain to like guitars without mids. :cry:
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This periphery band sounds like meshuggah.....not my cuppa tea. its like meshuggah but more girly LOL IMO.
still got a guy screamin hard though. reminds me of Five point 0.
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Well I like the guitar in All Shall Perish, by not sure if this video is a good representation of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFx85CfMvWI
I also like Parkway Drive's guitar tone, but again, the video might not answer that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7usTgw-7XfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tptChkpxMoQ&feature=related
I don't know what 'tonal qualities' either would be, really what you think. I don't have a clue, I just like how it sounds. :roll:
PS. Both vocals are awesome.
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Is Tool counted as metal (these days) cos I love Adam Jones tones.
Being old theyre about as metal as I want to get (though I have to admit liking Rammstein too)
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Well I like the guitar in All Shall Perish, by not sure if this video is a good representation of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFx85CfMvWI
I also like Parkway Drive's guitar tone, but again, the video might not answer that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7usTgw-7XfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tptChkpxMoQ&feature=related
I don't know what 'tonal qualities' either would be, really what you think. I don't have a clue, I just like how it sounds. :roll:
PS. Both vocals are awesome.
Yeah, those guitars sound much more like I was hoping for. More downtuned than some of the other bands I mentioned, for sure. Also, definately more mids in the tone - definately gives it more "grunt". The vocals were obviously not quite my thing :wink:
OK, anyone know any bands that sound like All Shall Perish or Parkway Drive, but with vocalists who sing ?
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OK, anyone know any bands that sound like All Shall Perish or Parkway Drive, but with vocalists who sing ?
Killswitch Engage! Still quite a lot of screaming, but Howard Jones has one of the best singing voices I've heard. Also, the guitar sounds on their last two albums are probably my favourite ever guitar tones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ADlw8IuQ4&feature=related
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OK, anyone know any bands that sound like All Shall Perish or Parkway Drive, but with vocalists who sing ?
Killswitch Engage! Still quite a lot of screaming, but Howard Jones has one of the best singing voices I've heard. Also, the guitar sounds on their last two albums are probably my favourite ever guitar tones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ADlw8IuQ4&feature=related
+1
On this note of 'mids' I wonder what would be a good pickup.
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Down have fantastic vocals and awesome riffage!!
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As far as metal tones go, Iron Maidens "Somewhere IN Time" has some of the greatest put onto record.
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I'm gonna have to hop on the Killswitch bandwagon here. They're tone is fantastic, try their cover of Holy Diver, it's epic.
Oh, and +1 for Down, they pretty much fit the bill for earth-shaking guitar and a decent singer.
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See if you can have a listen to Raised Fist (preferably have a listen to "Message Beneath Contempt" if you can). Might not be what you're after, as it's scooped fairly heavily, but it's not fizzy at all as a guitar tone. The vocals are definitely more hardcore/screamo than metal, but I'm into that sort of thing as well as the metal side of things too :)
Just wanted to throw another angle on the topic :)
Roo
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As far as good metal tone goes, both myself and Nolly agree heavily that Killswitch Engage are the sound to try and achieve, it's just a good sound through which you can get a great mix of any sound you want to, it's tight, warm and hard all in one.
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Are they still Caparisons into Frami?
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Are they still Caparisons into Frami?
Yes on the Caparisons. Not sure on the Frami, but most likely.
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Down have fantastic vocals and awesome riffage!!
I was about to say the same, oh well - here's a link... http://www.myspace.com/downnola
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Down have fantastic vocals and awesome riffage!!
I was about to say the same, oh well - here's a link... http://www.myspace.com/downnola
The Path is so good
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Are they still Caparisons into Frami?
Yes on the Caparisons. Not sure on the Frami, but most likely.
They use Mesa's these days, I think they went and got an endorsement from em, but to be fair, their tone has sounded pretty pwnworthy on so many different amps.
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Check out Demons and Wizards maybe, or Blind Guardian/Iced Earth. My favourite kinds of metal, i remmeber D&W having great tone, haven't listened myself for a while, for shame!
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Check out Demons and Wizards maybe, or Blind Guardian/Iced Earth. My favourite kinds of metal, i remmeber D&W having great tone, haven't listened myself for a while, for shame!
Schaffer always has good tone. Just a shame that D&W sucked.
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Are they still Caparisons into Frami?
Yes on the Caparisons. Not sure on the Frami, but most likely.
They use Mesa's these days, I think they went and got an endorsement from em, but to be fair, their tone has sounded pretty pwnworthy on so many different amps.
Adam D is endorsed my Mesa now, and uses Roadsters and Lonestars, but Joel has just started using Splawn Nitros. On the records, they've used a whole load of different amps: Framus Dragon/Cobra, H&K Triamp/Stilleto, Peavey 5150, Mesa Rectifier, Soldano SLO, the list goes on..
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Are they still Caparisons into Frami?
Yes on the Caparisons. Not sure on the Frami, but most likely.
They use Mesa's these days, I think they went and got an endorsement from em, but to be fair, their tone has sounded pretty pwnworthy on so many different amps.
Adam D is endorsed my Mesa now, and uses Roadsters and Lonestars, but Joel has just started using Splawn Nitros. On the records, they've used a whole load of different amps: Framus Dragon/Cobra, H&K Triamp/Stilleto, Peavey 5150, Mesa Rectifier, Soldano SLO, the list goes on..
Did you buy a Diezel in the end Nolly?
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Did you buy a Diezel in the end Nolly?
Tomorrow ;)
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Did you buy a Diezel in the end Nolly?
Tomorrow ;)
Well I'll be...
I expect a bloody thread you jammy bugger!!! :wink:
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Again with the Killswitch, my fave album is the End of Heartache. I just fricking love the tone! Another not-so-well known tone monster in my book would be Mark Mynette from Kill 2 This. Listen to the albums Deviate and Trinity, the guy has some awesome crunchy tone going on.
Another couple of bands I'm into at the moment tone-wise would be DevilDriver and Divine Heresy. They are going to be on the more brutal metal end of things so you might not like the vocals (Although the singer from Divine Heresy has an amazing singing voice when he uses it occasionally on the album, try "Failed Creation") but the Guitar tones are pretty good.
I'm very pleased to see some bands coming out of the scooped mids trend that's been going for a while, a lot of the newer guitarists really are going for a nicer sound. My personal fave kind of tone to play with in my band, I usually roll the gain back to just over half-way, have the Bass up 75%, the mid up about 60% and the treble up about 90% with the presence up around 90% too. Gives some nice cut at the top but also a really nice throaty crunch with the mids and the Nailbombs doing their thing with the gain.
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I really like Buckethead's tone on his metally stuff like the Decoding the Tomb of the Bansheebot album. And of couse there's no pesky singer to ruin the track! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgzzsbPj_1w&feature=related
They don't have great singing, but Sikth's tone is great. http://www.myspace.com/sikth check Bland Street Bloom or Scent of the Obscene
Also, Disturbed seem to be pretty popular with metalheads today: http://www.myspace.com/disturbed (I just checked 'Hell', sounds pretty good)
As for good singing and good metal tones, personally i'm not very knowledgable about contemporary metal but i've been on the same quest as you, and the most success i've had so far is looking at Power Metal bands, and some 'Melodic Death Metal'
The singer from Lost Horizon has a great voice, probably can hit notes only dogs can hear (see 4 mins in): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qf_cJTwclQ
Also Avantasia have some good metal voice stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOPfkKs7q38
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Kamelot.
http://www.myspace.com/kamelot
Good tone - AMAZING Singing Voice - saw them live a few weeks ago - Honest to god the best singer I've ever seen live.
Check out March of Mephisto.
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Did you buy a Diezel in the end Nolly?
Tomorrow ;)
Well I'll be...
I expect a bloody thread you jammy bugger!!! :wink:
Oh I think you can expect that :D
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I really like Buckethead's tone on his metally stuff like the Decoding the Tomb of the Bansheebot album. And of couse there's no pesky singer to ruin the track! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgzzsbPj_1w&feature=related
:o :o
there's a buckethead album i dont know about????
:o :o
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THanks for all the responses guys. Seems I've got a lot of listening to do !
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How about Strapping Young Lad? Both Dev and Jed were using Recto's; I guitar-teched for them on Ozzfest 2006 and believe that they had one of the most truly monstrous sounds (guitar, and as a band) that has ever been in the world of metal. On top of that, Devin is one of my favorite vocalists of all time; his voice is frighteningly diverse, running the full gamut from all manner of screaming vocals to some of the best singing technique I've heard. Check out Alien and The New Black (their last two records, and my personal favorites.)
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Down have fantastic vocals and awesome riffage!!
Down and Crowbar for me have the best metal tones ever. I also wish I could have a beard like Kirk.
I also like Mastodon very very much.
But as an 80's child, I'll always have a fondness for Metallica and Megadeth.
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As far as meaty guitars sound go, Mastodon has got a thick thick tone. They play Laneys and Marshalls if I remember right. They are also one of my favorite bands :D
Iron Tusk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVl-QMPtwtk
Blood & Thunder - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIhKRKSpvbI
Killswitch also has a sick tone. Last album I'm pretty sure it was Roadsters with Maxon OD808s boosting them.
I'd also say that Lamb of God has an absolutely kickass guitar tone - I bought a Mark IV 100% because of them. Huge amount of grinding mids - especially on their older Devin Townsend produced album. Odds are you will hate the vocalist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYlZAI2K0eU
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There's a big BUT coming here though. But .... the guitar sounds to my ears with bands like Nevermore and Periphery sound like a can of bees. Just the worst Marshall MG-like tones I can imagine. DO people actually like guitars to sound like this ? Now I know metal guitarists like a mid-scooped tone, but I thought they liked a lot of bottom end. The songs I listened to didn't seem to have any bottom end either. it was just all harsh, fizzy treble. Tight - yes, but any amp is tight when you take away all the bass. The bass guitar also seemed almost mixed out of the song.
I was expecting to hear guitar tones more like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKxJG0p45Ek .
this is off topic but what is going on with his pinch harmonics? is that his technique or the amp?
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There's a big BUT coming here though. But .... the guitar sounds to my ears with bands like Nevermore and Periphery sound like a can of bees. Just the worst Marshall MG-like tones I can imagine. DO people actually like guitars to sound like this ? Now I know metal guitarists like a mid-scooped tone, but I thought they liked a lot of bottom end. The songs I listened to didn't seem to have any bottom end either. it was just all harsh, fizzy treble. Tight - yes, but any amp is tight when you take away all the bass. The bass guitar also seemed almost mixed out of the song.
I was expecting to hear guitar tones more like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKxJG0p45Ek .
this is off topic but what is going on with his pinch harmonics? is that his technique or the amp?
Both.
The harmonic response of the pickups, the amp and his fingers all add to it.
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If you want good metal tone you have to listen to stoner/doom metal imo :) Not your typical tight compressed metal tone though I guess, but it still sounds really heavy and good, whilst being more "organic" and real sounding - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YX9le7bicPE
Though for a modern metal tone, KSE have some of the best I think.
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If you want good metal tone you have to listen to stoner/doom metal imo :) Not your typical tight compressed metal tone though I guess, but it still sounds really heavy and good, whilst being more "organic" and real sounding - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YX9le7bicPE
Though for a modern metal tone, KSE have some of the best I think.
Quite liked that - sounds like early Sabbath
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+1 to strapping young ladd. HUGE guitar sound.
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That guy from kill 2 this is now in city of god.
anyone that likes down might like them.
s'pretty good.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUn4jXZko5E
Caparison Dellinger into ENGL Fireball i think
the video kills the sound quality, better off going here http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=54655229
Better check out this band too
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=73408444
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I'd also say that Lamb of God has an absolutely kickass guitar tone - I bought a Mark IV 100% because of them. Huge amount of grinding mids - especially on their older Devin Townsend produced album. Odds are you will hate the vocalist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYlZAI2K0eU
I bought my Mark IV combo for the exact same reason, and the funny thing is i'm more of a punk/oi guy...
Go figure :D
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Metal music isn't famous for having the best guitar tones but then again tone is totally subjective. I must admit for actual guitar tone rock music kills metal any day.
80s metal had the best tones, modern metal is very processed sounding, not organic tone at all.
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Metal music isn't famous for having the best guitar tones but then again tone is totally subjective. I must admit for actual guitar tone rock music kills metal any day.
80s metal had the best tones, modern metal is very processed sounding, not organic tone at all.
You say yourself that tone is subjective, but then say that rock tone is better than metal tone? That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. It actually makes no sense.
Did you stop to consider, maybe, that metal bands don't want an organic tone?
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Well presumably the last part is his opinion. I agree with it :)
Mostly have troubles finding vocals I like
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Metal music isn't famous for having the best guitar tones but then again tone is totally subjective. I must admit for actual guitar tone rock music kills metal any day.
80s metal had the best tones, modern metal is very processed sounding, not organic tone at all.
You say yourself that tone is subjective, but then say that rock tone is better than metal tone? That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. It actually makes no sense.
Did you stop to consider, maybe, that metal bands don't want an organic tone?
It was just his opinion.
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I like Killswitches tones a lot but I can't stand it when the vocalist who can sing really well starts grunting.
System Of A Downs earlier albums had a good metal tone on them but then D.M went for an AC/DC tone on the last two, nothing wrong with the Young brothers tones but didn't work well for my ears in this band.
80's metal I liked Scott Ian's tone in Anthrax. Out of the Hair Metal bands, Mick Mars in Mottley Crue had a massive tone, as did John Sykes on 1987 for Whitesnake.
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Metal music isn't famous for having the best guitar tones but then again tone is totally subjective. I must admit for actual guitar tone rock music kills metal any day.
80s metal had the best tones, modern metal is very processed sounding, not organic tone at all.
You say yourself that tone is subjective, but then say that rock tone is better than metal tone? That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. It actually makes no sense.
Did you stop to consider, maybe, that metal bands don't want an organic tone?
It was just his opinion.
He didn't really pose it like that... "metal isn't famous for having the best guitar tones"
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Metal music isn't famous for having the best guitar tones but then again tone is totally subjective. I must admit for actual guitar tone rock music kills metal any day.
80s metal had the best tones, modern metal is very processed sounding, not organic tone at all.
You say yourself that tone is subjective, but then say that rock tone is better than metal tone? That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. It actually makes no sense.
Did you stop to consider, maybe, that metal bands don't want an organic tone?
It was just his opinion.
He didn't really pose it like that... "metal isn't famous for having the best guitar tones"
Alright mate don't have a baby over it! :roll:
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Howabout Dream Theaters Metropolis Pt 2, or are we only talking DEATHXMETALXCOREXMETAL music
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Howabout Dream Theaters Metropolis Pt 2, or are we only talking DEATHXMETALXCOREXMETAL music
No I think we're talking ANY sort of metal here. Someone put up a link to some Doom stoner metal earlier. I don't think I've ever heard any before - I have to say I really liked it (all except the vocals, as usual).
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Dominici's solo albums might be worth a shot but only 03 - a Trilogy parts 2+3 have any electrics on as part 1 is just Dominici with an acoustic and a harmonica.
It's a quite large concept album that has to be split into three separate releases.
I have often thought about releasing episodic concept albums but I suppose I would be better starting out in a band rather than on my own.
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http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=11030470
listen to Beethovens Nightmare or Contact, both from their newest album
Their guitarist has a sick caparison :twisted:
(http://a418.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/101/l_6ae1221c9722c52f9279d5346d1f55e9.jpg)
hes also the guitarist of nightrage who have some pretty heavy tones themselves http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=8135000
and Nocturnal Rites, i think he uses a ENGL SE
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=33797099
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If you want good metal tone you have to listen to stoner/doom metal imo :) Not your typical tight compressed metal tone though I guess, but it still sounds really heavy and good, whilst being more "organic" and real sounding - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YX9le7bicPE
Though for a modern metal tone, KSE have some of the best I think.
Woo, doom metal :)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sO7VP34n2Ps Electric Wizard (wait for 1:30, biiiig tone)
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is it true that they use bass amps for their guitars, Electric Wizard, a friend told me that...I personally think doom metal has the worst tone out of every metal genre :?
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That guy from kill 2 this is now in city of god.
Yeah but seeing as City of God have released an album and done nothing else so far (not even a supporting tour for the album) I thought it best to point people in the direction of K2T as they have a larger back catalog, heh.
I think Mark is just persuing his Production career now rather than actually doing the band and gig thing. I assume it's just working out better for him than being in a gigging band. Shame really as I think City of God had massive potential. But then, so did the last incarnation of K2T.
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Woo, doom metal :)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sO7VP34n2Ps Electric Wizard (wait for 1:30, biiiig tone)
Good stuff, I love the Dopethrone album :) Dont like the tone on it much but it works for them.. Someone on HC posted this clip of a Rat they modded, going into an AC30. It sounds huge http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/4/16/1868857/FirebreatherRatAC30test.mp3
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I'm not really a modern metal kinda guy, and I DO agree with the sterile tone comments. But I'm currently LOVING The Blackening by Machine Head - really good tones going on there.
Mark.
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I'm not really a modern metal kinda guy, and I DO agree with the sterile tone comments. But I'm currently LOVING The Blackening by Machine Head - really good tones going on there.
Mark.
Absolutely SUPERB album.
Its actually on my top 5 albums of all time - Which is suprising for such a recent album.
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Isn't Halo just a sublime track?
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http://www.myspace.com/mercenarydenmark
One of my favourite tones is with these guys, check out Lost Reality by them.
You have to think though, using Myspace and Youtube to judge guitar tone is not a good idea, so compressed and frequency limited its untrue....
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FIRESOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUULLLLL :twisted: :P
(sorry, couldn't resist)
Mercenary do kick ass. One of the only good things to ever come out of Denmark.
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Isn't Halo just a sublime track?
Ofcourse! :D
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Opeths studio tone is probably my favourite metal tone actually. It sounds huge and heavy, without being all compressed and cr@p sounding.
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Isnt Mnemic from denmark? I love Mnemics new album. But the tone there i think is abit dark.
+1 To Machine Heads the blackening. but i do have a diss. on some of the tracks more than others theres an incredibly annoying Pick attack sound. like there not picking but scr@ping. But for a cliche metal setup EMG>>5150 it is definatly a full fat sound.
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Isnt Mnemic from denmark? I love Mnemics new album. But the tone there i think is abit dark.
+1 To Machine Heads the blackening. but i do have a diss. on some of the tracks more than others theres an incredibly annoying Pick attack sound. like there not picking but scr@ping. But for a cliche metal setup EMG>>5150 it is definatly a full fat sound.
I think Mnemic tone is so dark because they have Meshuggah type tuning, something like F on 7 strings
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Isnt Mnemic from denmark? I love Mnemics new album. But the tone there i think is abit dark.
+1 To Machine Heads the blackening. but i do have a diss. on some of the tracks more than others theres an incredibly annoying Pick attack sound. like there not picking but scr@ping. But for a cliche metal setup EMG>>5150 it is definatly a full fat sound.
I hate the new album - Much prefer their old tone, before they started getting silly tuning. They used to be about B, now they're around F.