Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: AngusYoung01 on April 24, 2008, 04:30:42 PM
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Saw this amp in this months Guitarist, got all 5 stars and the guitarist Gold award, looks phenominal. I remember there was a little bit of controversy about this a while back, the use of PCB's from the company. Personally, from this review, I think it sounds fantastic, and the cost is something us mere mortals can afford. I definitely want to check this out. What are your thoughts?
Here's what Guitarist gave it -
Build Quality: 5*
Features: 5*
Sound: 5*
Value for Money: 5*
Guitarist Rating: 5*
And here's a clip of Guthrie Govan demonstrating it at NAMM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4Tf9gwCgw
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I still think its a bit odd that they ramble on about pcb vs ptp etc for so many years and then do this ...but anyway, they look like great amp's at great prices.
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^ that was my big problem with it... not the fact that they changed to pcb, but the fact for years they'd been banging on about how much better HW was...
i'd like to try one, of course. if it's anything like the HW cornfords, it might be cool.
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Regardless, it does look amazing.
Infact, in Guitarist, on the topic of PCB's, the guy from Cornford says "It makes no difference tonally", and talks about how it's just a reliability thing.
I'm new to the company, so I'm not sure if this contradicts their earlier beliefs?
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They're known for advertising the benefits of ptp wiring, and that sort of thing, allways been considered as high quality boutique builders etc, and then they release a production line PCB amp.
So generally, yeah, it contradicts the Cornford name slightly.
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what's a PCB?
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Printed Circuit Board
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Printed Circuit Board
as opposed to what?
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Printed Circuit Board
as opposed to what?
Point to point wiring...
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I couldnt give two shites if an amp is pcb really and dont really buy the tone argument.
My pcb VHT kicked ass...
On the other hand I am really close to buying a Cornell Plexi 7 which sounds superb and Cornell say it is due in part to the ptp
:roll:
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On the other hand I am really close to buying a Cornell Plexi 7 which sounds superb and Cornell say it is due in part to the ptp
I'll be interested to know what you think of it. I was really keen on buying one but 600-odd quid just seemed too much for such a tiny and essentially limited-use amp.
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The cornford roadhouse sounds superb on their demos that come with the mag. I think guthrie is doing the demo. The amp can do all styles of music from jazz to metal and everything in between really really well. i guess it helps when you have someone so technically good as him playing.
i'd be interested in the cornell as well. i wish they did clips of it. still not heard a clip or demo of the amp. i saw one in a shop in richmond but not tried it. £600 is a lot for a practice amp but when u think u can pay £1600 for a Carr Mini Merc its quite good value. a tiny terror + cab is 500 and although it can do small gigs most people buy them for a practice amp in their house and the cornell has the potential from its spec to do it better and quieter.
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PCB does NOT mean bad construction methods.
Soldano, Suhr, Bogner, '73 to '84 Marshalls, THD, VHT..
The list goes on... yes PTP construction has a difference to the resistance in the circuit but this same phenominon can be recreated with a bit of clever voicing of the amp.
PCB is better for mass production as it's perfect in recreation everytime, but can be just as well built as PTP in terms of reliablility.
PTP is great for the small scale builder on a mission to find tonal nirvana, coz he can change anything instantly without having to re-draw a PCB design.
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as for cornfords move to PCB? well personally i'd be more concerned if they'd sourced the transformers externally to cut costs rather than laid the circuit down on a PCB rather than a tag board..
Transformers are where the magic is at with Cornford amps, they're designed and handwound in house.
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And here's a clip of Guthrie Govan demonstrating it at NAMM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4Tf9gwCgw
what a bloody awfull demo - jesus, that sounded like my old Spectrum loading up. I can't even tell whether the tone was good or bad to be honest, it was just a blur.
I don't mind some shred, but it's got to be textured so that the fast bits in the solo have dramatic effect.
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What's that YouTube demo all about? Where's the big chords? Light and dark? A load of flash poncing about does NOT demo an amp to the masses. What kind of idea of tone can you get from that? Sheesh.... :roll:
Rant over.
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What's that YouTube demo all about? Where's the big chords? Light and dark? A load of flash poncing about does NOT demo an amp to the masses. What kind of idea of tone can you get from that? Sheesh.... :roll:
Rant over.
Guys that's just him playing Sevens, its not an amp demo... Its just him playing through the amp at Namm...
And a bloody good song it is - I thoroughly recommend his album for those interested.
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Fair enough - cheers matey.
Sounds rubbish to me though. It's a techinque demonstartion, not music.
I must be getting old!
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Well, that's the dilema... the Cornell does sound amazing but like you say it's not got much scope.
I may just buy some pedals I have been after for a while.
Sorry for taking the thread away from Cornford!
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[
Guys that's just him playing Sevens
Sounds like fives to me... :?
1 2 3 4 5. yer fives it iss.
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Fair enough - cheers matey.
Sounds rubbish to me though. It's a techinque demonstartion, not music.
I must be getting old!
Its hardly a good presentation!
Check out the album - You won't regret it.
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Interesting comment about the transformers.
When I took my 1971/2 Orange in for repair, the guy RAVED about the transformers. He said that the main reason that old amps sound like they do is because of the transformers, which give out more harmful emissions than is legally allowed these days...
:roll:
:twisted:
Mark.
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Fair enough - cheers matey.
Sounds rubbish to me though. It's a techinque demonstartion, not music.
I must be getting old!
I must be getting old too !
There are musicians and technicians. Some of the technicians play the guitar - doesn't make them musicians.
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Fair enough - cheers matey.
Sounds rubbish to me though. It's a techinque demonstartion, not music.
I must be getting old!
I must be getting old too !
There are musicians and technicians. Some of the technicians play the guitar - doesn't make them musicians.
Come on you guys...I'm not getting old, I AM old. Although I'm not a fan of his fusion and shred material you have only got to look at what other musicians think of Guthrie to realise he has BOTH technique and musicianship (Joe Satriani, Ritchie Kotzen, Dweezil Zappa, Bumblefoot, Steve Stevens etc,). He seems to be a master of many styles.
e.g.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FkzIt0skdg&feature=related
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What's old got to do with it lol? It's more a show of ignorance than age.
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What's old got to do with it lol? It's more a show of ignorance than age.
Fraid not, it's simply opinion not ignorance (I also fail to see any humour such a statement)
I know for example that Mr Guthrie can play incredibly well and that he is also a very acomplished teacher, but apart from the track "Slippery Thing" I don't like his original material (or his tone).
The original youtube clip is very similar to Alan Holdsworth when he played on the Soft Machine album Bundles (but in my opinion without the restraint that Holdsworth showed). But once again thats opinion, not ignorance. Now wheres my Roy Buchannan collection
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Although I've heard of him Ive never heard any of his playing, and and from this he clearly has a fantastic technical ability - but to me this did seem like a series of exercises over some chords rather than a proper song which, lets face it an awful lot of instrumental music is, unfortunately.
Regarding the amp...well given the absolute sh*te quality of the audio it would be hard to judge. For me it sounded too mid heavy, but the clean showed some sparkle, so I wouldn't discount it - Brit amp at a good price has to be worth investigating if you are looking for something (I won't be trading in the JCM just yet though :) )
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Now wheres my Roy Buchannan collection
Next to your Danny Gatton collection? :wink:
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What's old got to do with it lol? It's more a show of ignorance than age.
Fraid not, it's simply opinion not ignorance
+1 to that.
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My comment was more directed to Hamfists epiphany about the musician/technician.. but meh... Im not going to win any popularity contests over here :lol:
Check theses videos out please and let me know if you think he displays anything other than technical prowess :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTi24AxJP_w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUZK9dasP8s&feature=related
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On the other hand I am really close to buying a Cornell Plexi 7 which sounds superb and Cornell say it is due in part to the ptp
I'll be interested to know what you think of it. I was really keen on buying one but 600-odd quid just seemed too much for such a tiny and essentially limited-use amp.
haven't tried the plexi 7, but the romany plus (their low wattage fender-style amp) was awesome. but as you say, £600 (or closer to £800 in the case of the romany plus) is a lot for a very low wattage amp.
PCB does NOT mean bad construction methods.
i'm not complaining about their moving to PCB, i'm complaining about their using PTP as justification for their extremely high prices, until they decided to use PCBs on their newest range of amps, when suddenly, "it makes no difference!"...
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my engl is PCB, and i'm not changing it any time soon.
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Actually Cornford use tag board, which is often wrongly callled PTP. True PTP means that the components are wired directly to the valve sockets etc with minimal tags. Very few amps are truely PTP and making anything more than a simple amp using PTP is very hard. Contrary to popular wisdom repairing PTP amps can be a total nightmare — a well laid out PCB is much easier to work on. Incidentally I don't like tag board construction much either — eyelet or turret board is much easier to work on. Additionally the material used to make tag board, synthetic resin bonded paper, is a poor material for the job as it can absorb moisture and be prone to DC leakage. I have experienced this in amp I've built in the past and no longer use it.
I don't think Cornford's prices are out of line with what you should expect to pay for a hand-wired amp built in the UK. It's labour intensive, requires a lot of skill and you have to pay a proper wage, not a Third World wage. Regardless as I have posted elsewhere, I would agree that Cornford have made a big selling point of the fact their amps contain no PCBs to demonstrate that they are superior to other amps....
Regarding "limited-use amps" — well most of the working, ie professional, musicians I know (and have done work for) use "limited-use amps". Their limited use is in fact their strong point. You can get to a gig, plug in and there's you sound. If you don't like the sound of the amp, you've got the wrong amp. These amps sell on the quality of their sound, not the number of features.
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Lew I've just watched those videos & Guthrie is an a amazing guitarist & at the beginning of those videos he starts off (IMO) very well. The solos is melodic & tasteful, then all of a sudden he just goes off on one. It's like all of a sudden something in his brain goes "I've got to prove I can do lots of amazingly fast things". I don't think anyone can say the guy isn't talented, but he needs to slow down & realise that sometimes playing fast is just that...playing fast.
Still I've always loved Cornfords, I'd like to try one of the Roadhouses first because you can't really tell from the video
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Regarding "limited-use amps" — well most of the working, ie professional, musicians I know (and have done work for) use "limited-use amps". Their limited use is in fact their strong point. You can get to a gig, plug in and there's you sound. If you don't like the sound of the amp, you've got the wrong amp. These amps sell on the quality of their sound, not the number of features.
Good point, I agree with everything you said. I really like simple amps, the fewer knobs the better as far as I'm concerned. They have their own character and, frankly, with less options there's less for me to f*ck up.
But just to clarify, when I referred to the Cornell Plexi 7 as "limited-use", I was talking about the power, not the features. £645 is a lot of money (IMO) for an amp that would be used essentially as a practice amp - and wouldn't be much use in the very unlikely event that I ever started gigging. But anyway, I'm still quite tempted to buy one.
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Who cares about marketing anyways? It gives us GAS yeah, but in the end, nothing counts anything as long as it sounds good.
Even the price is just to SOME extend cost related. Price is what people are willing to pay, ever heard of Cournot Equilibrium? The more you wanna sell, the lower the price. They have capacity for 6,000 PCB amps a year versus a few 100s PTP. Guess there is much more profit in 6,000 mid priced amps than 300 top priced ones.
So there is marketing truth and there is tone truth. We should not bother and let our ears decide!
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Lew I've just watched those videos & Guthrie is an a amazing guitarist & at the beginning of those videos he starts off (IMO) very well. The solos is melodic & tasteful, then all of a sudden he just goes off on one. It's like all of a sudden something in his brain goes "I've got to prove I can do lots of amazingly fast things". I don't think anyone can say the guy isn't talented, but he needs to slow down & realise that sometimes playing fast is just that...playing fast.
Still I've always loved Cornfords, I'd like to try one of the Roadhouses first because you can't really tell from the video
Fair point :)
I am probably going to miss the Cornell, I was going to go with a 2 amp set up but by the time I get the Lehle pedal to switch between them, it will be the same price to get my pedal board sorted and finished.
Anyone selling a strobe tuner? :P
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Actually Cornford use tag board, which is often wrongly callled PTP. True PTP means that the components are wired directly to the valve sockets etc with minimal tags. Very few amps are truely PTP and making anything more than a simple amp using PTP is very hard.
good point. :)
Regarding "limited-use amps" — well most of the working, ie professional, musicians I know (and have done work for) use "limited-use amps". Their limited use is in fact their strong point. You can get to a gig, plug in and there's you sound. If you don't like the sound of the amp, you've got the wrong amp. These amps sell on the quality of their sound, not the number of features.
if i wanted an amp for only one tone, i'd prefer an amp only aimed at that tone too... they normally do that tone "better" than a jack of all trades...
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Lew I've just watched those videos & Guthrie is an a amazing guitarist & at the beginning of those videos he starts off (IMO) very well. The solos is melodic & tasteful, then all of a sudden he just goes off on one. It's like all of a sudden something in his brain goes "I've got to prove I can do lots of amazingly fast things". I don't think anyone can say the guy isn't talented, but he needs to slow down & realise that sometimes playing fast is just that...playing fast.
Yes - I read somewhere that he is getting a bit pissed off because a lot of people at his gigs expect him to 'perform' all the time. Perhaps he was trying to make a statement by droppping Cream's 'Crossroads' lick into the solo at the end - as Clapton was in the same situation back in his "God" days and (IMO) lost the edge after that.
Having 2 Cornfords myself and listened a fair bit of Guthrie material I would say that is not a particularly good video and does neither of them any favours.