Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: 99_not_out on May 06, 2008, 04:30:56 PM
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I just tuned my pigged 'SG as follows, basically moving everything down 5:
B E A D G B
But I want the low string to be even lower ... in fact maybe a whole octave down:
E E A D G B
Damn Warpigs and their lovely bass response :twisted: Or at least that is my half-thought through potentially crazy plan. I have it strung with 12's at the moment, but the low E isn't heavy enough to take any lower tuning. I'll probably move the rest to:
1 14
2 18
3 28w
4 38w
5 48w
6 ??
What gague should I go to for the low 'E'? And anyone have any idea what is the heaviest gague that will fit into an Epi SG's tuners?
If I snap the neck I'm holding you all to blame :)
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Ugh. F# at around 28.5 scale is OK at .080, so you're looking at a really silly gauge for E on a shorter scale. This certainly won't fit in your tuners.... :?
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IMO it would be impractical: the E on a 4-string bass is something like .100 or .105, but that's on a 34" scale. To achieve decent tension on a 24¾" scale, the string would need to be ludicrously heavy.
Then there's the practical question of whether the low B from a 5-string bass set would even fit through the tuner holes, along with the probability that it wouldn't intonate correctly if it did (the bridge on my Gothic V is already at the limit of its adjustment with the bottom string tuned to Bb)
I use D'Addario 13-62 baritone strings on my Gothic V tuned to Bb - even with such a heavy gauge string it flaps around a bit.
Yes, it's tempting with the Warpig to take everything to the extreme :twisted: but you can have too much of a good thing... ;)
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Yeah, I was thinking itsjust too low for the tuners I have.
I might just get the heaviest string that will fit and see how low it goes and stick there. Maybe a 60 ... anyone have any idea what the largest gague that will fit into standard tuners is?
And yes, the Warpigs do keep taking you lower, don't they :twisted:
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You could get atleast a 60 in there, thats probably the limit I am thinking though
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It's not just the tuners - it's the scale length & adjustability of the bridge that also make it impractical to tune so low.
D'Addario made a 6-string set for the tuning you want: the XL156 (http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/products/1418-d_addario_xl_electric_guitar_bass) set for the Fender VI bass (IIRC they called it the baritone bass for a while, & Music Man made something similar), but that instrument has a 30" scale. There's no way you'll get acceptable playability with a 5¾" shorter scale length.
As for what will fit, I know that the .068 from D'Addario's 14-68 set fits. I think Blackmachine get a .084 to fit a standard Sperzel, so I'm guessing that the limit is somewhere around there....
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Ta for the info Antag. Hadn't thought about intonation ... or really thought it through at all other than thinking last night "I wonder how low I can make this go ..." :)
I'll get something around the .060 ~ .068 mark and see what its like.
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When I started using a 0.52 bottom string on my Epi SG I had to do some major work on the saddles with a needle file.
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60 is going to be too little. Even I use a 60 for my Low B on my 7 string. I'd suggest at very least an 80.
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I currently use a .012-.060 set in drop-C (CGCFAD) on my ESP Ec-1000. Had to fiddle with the tuner a bit to get the .060 to go through. .058 went through no problem. .060 for the C is just right for me, I use .010-.052 in standard E and this set has approximately the same feel in drop-C.
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Have you thought about taking up the bass instead?
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MrBump FTW :lol:
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Youre gonna need something like 15 to 80 and a drill :twisted:
Oh, and I doubt youre gonna like it. On that scale its likely to be mud.
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or buy a 7 stringer ;)
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or buy a fanned fret !!!
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Try an octave pedal? Whammys are always fun for a mess around :D
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You're not gonna like it that low on a short scale guitar. On the rare occasion I've tuned my 7 to drop-A, I quickly felt ashamed and tuned back to B.
B standard is where it's at.
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Yeah, after playing it again I think anything lower than B would be a bit too much. Just need something heavier than 12's to do it on :P I did have a bass once as it happens which I miss a bit hence my low tuning thoughts recently. As you all point out the guitar isn't going to like a low-low E ... when I think it through properly that is A LOT lower than B where its currently at ... and now I have read about intonation too, at age 33 still learning all the time I suppose!
Still it was a good random thought while it lasted, albeit fundamentally flawed and unworkable :)
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I run an Ibanez RG series guitar on 13-18-26-36-46-56 strings at tuning A-E-A-D-F#-B. It's not ideal, but the tension is okay. Plans are in the pipeline to rectify this with a new guitar, but that's all rather hush hush at the moment ;)
Roo
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You could buy a Baritone-guitar...Longer scale.
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You could buy a Baritone-guitar...Longer scale.
baritones are great and nearly solve the problem... but lets take a baritone with a 28" scale length -its great for the thick low strings but i feel its pushing the higher strings a bit too taught
thats where fanned fret designs come in handy, something like 26.5" on the treble side to 28" on the bass gives you extra length on all the strings to help with the tension - but not so long on the treble that it gets uncomfortable. Ok, not easily available just yet but i know doug from blackmachine does them and its also something i have been trying out with very good results
But whichever scale length you have, experiment with string gauges and tunings to find what works best...
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I've got a 27" 7 string and it's not that hard to bend. In fact i quite like it because it gives you a lot of control over the bend. I'm not the world's greatest bender (ooh err), and I've just done a tone and a half with little difficulty.
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MrBump FTW :lol:
... what does "FTW" stand for? A couple of people have said it to me on here...
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"for the win"
Or, more technically correct, "for teh win!1"
It's a "hip" way of saying that something "rules".
God I'm getting old.
Roo
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I realise I'm coming a little late to the party here, but you could try picking up a Yamaha RGX Drop6 secondhand. They weren't expensive to start with, and should be reasonably cheap. They're 6 strings with a 26.4"ish scale, tuned to B, E, A, D, F#, B. String tension is about the same as a normal guitar, provided you use the right string gauges (bottom end is something like a 0.62 if i remember right). I've had one for a good few years - gives a 7-string sound without the need to learn new fingering, which is great if you're lazy (like me).
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Have you thought about taking up the bass instead?
..and stick a warpig in it. hehe.
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So I've left it at B E A D G B, now strung with 13 - 58, which is about as heavy gauge as the guitar can take I think. Having played about with it today (including a bit of drop-A) you're all right about this scale of guitar not taking anything lower :)
But the B tuning is marvelous with the Warpigs. The rest of my guitars sounded horribly bright after 2 hours of B tuned riffage :twisted:
A few of you mentioned fanned fret guitars ... how easy are these to get the hang of? Always been kind of interested by them as they are a bit unusual.
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So I've left it at B E A D G B, now strung with 13 - 58, which is about as heavy gauge as the guitar can take I think. Having played about with it today (including a bit of drop-A) you're all right about this scale of guitar not taking anything lower :)
But the B tuning is marvelous with the Warpigs. The rest of my guitars sounded horribly bright after 2 hours of B tuned riffage :twisted:
A few of you mentioned fanned fret guitars ... how easy are these to get the hang of? Always been kind of interested by them as they are a bit unusual.
As far as I know, they have to be custom built, don't think anyone mass produces them.
But I've only heard good things about them...
Rusty manages to make them work well for him: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhg9zKqnzk
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or buy a 7 stringer ;)
Do that!
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Rusty manages to make them work well for him: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhg9zKqnzk
Haha, I wish I was as good as that!
Not sure I would really know what to do with 8 strings ... or 7 come to that. I think a baritone would be the way I'd go if I want anything lower. Fanned fret is still intriguing though, albeit looking quite expensive ...
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fanned frets are really easy to play... its no more difficult to adjust to than it is changing scale lengths. Maybe a few minutes at most if its a severe fan but the improved tension makes up for that
i have a fanned fret guitar that i automatically shove into peoples hands when they come round, just to see how they react... first you see fear :twisted: then you see them try some simple riff :? .... then you see them adapt and liking it :P
when ailean was round the other week his comments were that it looked wieird from the front but seemed almost natural once in a playing position
and thats it.. if the scale lengths are chosen wisely and the perp is in the right place it works really well (perp= the one fret that isnt fanned, perpendicular to the scale length)
I have a baritone in the works that will be 26.5 on the treble and 28" on the bass with the 7th as the perp.... gonna be pretty special!!!!
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WezV, you're a GAS inducer :(
...*quietly browses his website*
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dont look at my website :oops: ...........hasnt been updated in ages!!!
i have an ex-student working on a new flash version for me... he passes his end of year project, i get a new website.. works for both!!
And if for some reason that falls through i have just taken on a re neck job for a guitarist who does a lot of web design
either way.. Their should be a better one at some point!!!
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you need piano strings and a custom made guitar for that kind of stuff, unless u enjoy that groovy bent neck look?