Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: elavd on May 07, 2008, 03:14:44 PM
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Hello everybody!
This is my first post in this forum!
I have a Gibson ES335 with Classic 57 pickups.
I am thinking of replacing them because I have a problem with them. Their sound doesn't match...
I have set the height of my 2 pickups so that they have equal output. But if I adjust the EQ of my amp in order to have a good tone from my neck pickup, the bridge sounds too trembly and harsh. In contrast, if I adjust the amp in order to have a good sound on the bridge pickup, then the neck pickup sounds too "boomy".
So I am looking for a well balanced set of pickups for my 335, that will be close (I know this is VERY difficult) to Larry Carlton's clean tone.
I am after a clean "jazz" sounding and low output set, which will not sound neither too harsh nor too boomy.
Which BK set would you suggest me?
Thanks in advance,
Elias
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I know it's a no-brain answer, but you're screaming for Stormies.
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I know it's a no-brain answer, but you're screaming for Stormies.
;)
Thanks for your quick reply my friend!
Can you explain me why?
Also, do you suggest me buying an A5, A2 or a mixed A5/A2 set?
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Hi Elias, welcome to the forum. :D
Yes, I expect everyone will say Stormy Mondays :) . Perhaps someone who owns a 335-type can recommend whether to choose alnico II or alnico IV magnets. I think Tim doesn't recommend mixing AII and AIV, but I may be wrong.
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I'd wait for "Fourth Feline" to chime in here, as this question is right up his street, but I feel sure he'll tell you that you need a set of A2 Stormy Mondays :)
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Wow!!!
You guys are REALLY quick!!!
:D :wink:
I also hope that someone who owns a semi-hollow guitar, can guide me how to replace the pickups myself...(I know, I know it's not that easy... :cry: )
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I also hope that someone who owns a semi-hollow guitar, can guide me how to replace the pickups myself...(I know, I know it's not that easy... :cry: )
You take the pots through the f-holes, best to go one pickup at a time. I suggest looking in the Tech section for help.
The reason I suggested the Stormy Mondays is that they are known to have the best clean tone of the bunch. They are exceptionally clear and "match" in the sense that they are shades apart rather than worlds apart (I saw another person on the board saying that, can't remember who). Sushi posted a vid awhile ago with the set in a Les Paul. I know it'll sound different in a semi-hollow, but it should be enough to give you an idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuavPedirvA (wait for the cleans)
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I also hope that someone who owns a semi-hollow guitar, can guide me how to replace the pickups myself...(I know, I know it's not that easy... :cry: )
Here's an excellent thread on that very topic:
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10301&highlight=335
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A2 Stormy Mondays all the way man!! Sweet, blues and jazz, they exude everything that you want out of a 335.
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I'd wait for "Fourth Feline" to chime in here, as this question is right up his street, but I feel sure he'll tell you that you need a set of A2 Stormy Mondays :)
Spot on my friend !
I have not yet fitted them to a 335 style guitar ( hopefully very soon though ! ) - but in a slender bodied S.G. they where heavenly.
I must explain that I am also a great fan of Larry Carlton, and the sound I was hearing ( even in a slim solid body guitar ) - was spot on for those tones.
Specifically, when you turn a bridge Alnico II Stormy up, it never gets harsh - and when you turn up the neck, it never gets "boomy ". I have also found them very easy to balance and e.q. - as they are the most sweetly transparent and balanced pickups I have ever heard.
My conviction in this matter is further proven by the fact that I will be buying a '335' copy just to put the Stormy Mondays in !
I will of course report back as soon as I can ... :D
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P.S.
I think we should say another big " Thank You" to Jonesy76 for giving us the 'how to fit ' guide. As Philly Q said, it is indeed excellent !
I will be using it as my 'Bible' when re-wiring my own .
Nice one Jonesy :D
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So I am leaning towards to Stormy Mondays, as you all voted for them!
One question though:
I also like to play funk music 8)
Do the SM Alnico 2 set will do for funky stuff too, or will it be too bassy/muddy for that kind of playing?
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I have unpotted AII Stormy Mondays in my 335 - see this thread:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4881
For the music you are describing, I would get the unpotted - they have a little bit more 'air' in the tones. There are no feedback problems with them, I have run them into a high gain setting and just get sweet feedback. They can do the funk stuff, just use the volume controls - like all BKP's they can be turned down and will keep their clarity.
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I have unpotted AII Stormy Mondays in my 335 - see this thread:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4881
For the music you are describing, I would get the unpotted - they have a little bit more 'air' in the tones. There are no feedback problems with them, I have run them into a high gain setting and just get sweet feedback. They can do the funk stuff, just use the volume controls - like all BKP's they can be turned down and will keep their clarity.
So, the unpotted version has a more open sound?
PS: PhilKing is that a sonic blue strat on your Avatar? I LOVE this colour!!!
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PS: PhilKing is that a sonic blue strat on your Avatar? I LOVE this colour!!!
I hate to disappoint you but it is a real 1957 strat that was reprayed in white with no lacquer overspray, so it never yellowed. The one at the side is a 61 olympic white. Sonic Blues are very cool though. My olympic white had been painted daphne blue (by hand I think!) when I got it, but the old body was part sanded away. There is a replacement body on it. I think Mr 38 is a big sonic blue strat fan.
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I hate to disappoint you but it is a real 1957 strat that was reprayed in white with no lacquer overspray, so it never yellowed. The one at the side is a 61 olympic white. Sonic Blues are very cool though. My olympic white had been painted daphne blue (by hand I think!) when I got it, but the old body was part sanded away. There is a replacement body on it. I think Mr 38 is a big sonic blue strat fan.
I had this Classic Playe 60s Sonic Blue strat but I had to sell it in order to get some money that I needed...:(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Lv9xDCEJ0
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Welcome to the forum. I can't help with your pickup choice but if you do get the SM's I look forward to hearing your evaluation. Phil is correct, Sonic Blue is my favourite Strat colour.
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I would just like to add, as a sort of side-note that your guitar, in my opinion, is AWESOME.
I love 335s
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I would just like to add, as a sort of side-note that your guitar, in my opinion, is AWESOME.
I love 335s
Thanks!!!
Check out some photos of it:
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/ES335/gibby_10.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/ES335/gibby_01.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/ES335/gibby_07.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/ES335/ed9b_3.jpg)
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I had this Classic Playe 60s Sonic Blue strat but I had to sell it in order to get some money that I needed...:(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Lv9xDCEJ0
Those are great Strats for the money. I almost bought one, but ended up with my Robert Cray Strat - for the hardtail bridge and fat neck.
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Flamboyant guitar case :wink: .
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Thanks for posting those beautiful pictures Elavd, that really is my dream guitar ! 8)
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I'd wait for "Fourth Feline" to chime in here, as this question is right up his street, but I feel sure he'll tell you that you need a set of A2 Stormy Mondays :)
Spot on my friend !
I have not yet fitted them to a 335 style guitar ( hopefully very soon though ! ) - but in a slender bodied S.G. they where heavenly.
I must explain that I am also a great fan of Larry Carlton, and the sound I was hearing ( even in a slim solid body guitar ) - was spot on for those tones.
Specifically, when you turn a bridge Alnico II Stormy up, it never gets harsh - and when you turn up the neck, it never gets "boomy ". I have also found them very easy to balance and e.q. - as they are the most sweetly transparent and balanced pickups I have ever heard.
My conviction in this matter is further proven by the fact that I will be buying a '335' copy just to put the Stormy Mondays in !
I will of course report back as soon as I can ... :D
Any idea FF which 335 copy your going to get? I love 335's too and would love to get one but they are expensive so a good copy would do me with unpotted SM's.
Lovely looking guitar Elavd! Looks like LC's. He has a great tone and his playing is amazing.
Welcome!
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I love 335's too and would love to get one but they are expensive so a good copy would do me with unpotted SM's.
Tokai make some pretty amazing looking 335 copies:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-Japan-Premium-ES-335-VNT-Flame-Nitro-H-C_W0QQitemZ320247168921QQihZ011QQcategoryZ2384QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Not even close to cheap though, I'm sure there must be thriftier options.
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I love 335's too and would love to get one but they are expensive so a good copy would do me with unpotted SM's.
Tokai make some pretty amazing looking 335 copies:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-Japan-Premium-ES-335-VNT-Flame-Nitro-H-C_W0QQitemZ320247168921QQihZ011QQcategoryZ2384QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Not even close to cheap though, I'm sure there must be thriftier options.
I was ready to buy a Tokai 335 copy, but it would cost me something like 1200€ (aprox. 950 pounds).
But I found this used (and in PERFECT condition) original Gibson ES335 and I bought it for 1800€ (~1400 pounds)
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While you're doing the pickup change get an RS vintage kit with better pots and caps too, they will open up the sound even more and make the volume and tone controls more usable. In combination with BKP unpotted pickups you will get an amazing sound with that 335!
That setup gives you much better options in variation when it comes to the settings of volume and tone controls, you can turn down the tone to like 5 easily without robbing the guitar of dynamics and focus. Also even better clarity when you roll down vol.
Just my opinion. Helped my guitars alot!
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While you're doing the pickup change get an RS vintage kit with better pots and caps too, they will open up the sound even more and make the volume and tone controls more usable. In combination with BKP unpotted pickups you will get an amazing sound with that 335!
That setup gives you much better options in variation when it comes to the settings of volume and tone controls, you can turn down the tone to like 5 easily without robbing the guitar of dynamics and focus. Also even better clarity when you roll down vol.
Just my opinion. Helped my guitars alot!
Thanks!!! That's a very good advice ;)
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I'd wait for "Fourth Feline" to chime in here, as this question is right up his street, but I feel sure he'll tell you that you need a set of A2 Stormy Mondays :)
Spot on my friend !
I have not yet fitted them to a 335 style guitar ( hopefully very soon though ! ) - but in a slender bodied S.G. they where heavenly.
I must explain that I am also a great fan of Larry Carlton, and the sound I was hearing ( even in a slim solid body guitar ) - was spot on for those tones.
Specifically, when you turn a bridge Alnico II Stormy up, it never gets harsh - and when you turn up the neck, it never gets "boomy ". I have also found them very easy to balance and e.q. - as they are the most sweetly transparent and balanced pickups I have ever heard.
My conviction in this matter is further proven by the fact that I will be buying a '335' copy just to put the Stormy Mondays in !
I will of course report back as soon as I can ... :D
Any idea FF which 335 copy your going to get? I love 335's too and would love to get one but they are expensive so a good copy would do me with unpotted SM's.
Lovely looking guitar Elavd! Looks like LC's. He has a great tone and his playing is amazing.
Welcome!
Hiya Johnny :)
Yes, it looks like the Tanglewood TH502.
I tried an Aria TA-50, but the action was terrible, even with the bridge screwed down and the truss rod tightened. The binding / finishing / translucent finish was nicer on the Tanglewood too. When I e:maled Tanglewood for more information they replied quickly and helpfully.
I also tried a 'Vintage' 355 copy in another shop - and the neck and set up was amazingly good straight out of the box. However, overall I prefered the chrome/ nickel hardware - and simplicity of a 335 copy over a 355 copy. I saw on the web that that Ibanez had a nice looking guitar too, but it was £100 + more for things I did not need.
As luck has it, a local dealer / player had got a nice second hand Tanglewood TH502 in - and has set it up / dressed the frets e.t.c. at good price. When he brings it round to my place on Saturday, I only hope it feels as good as described.
I have the Gibson 335 wiring kit on the way from Axes'r'Us' - and of course the Stormy Mondays.
I am really looking forward to the upgrading and the playng !
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I'd wait for "Fourth Feline" to chime in here, as this question is right up his street, but I feel sure he'll tell you that you need a set of A2 Stormy Mondays :)
Spot on my friend !
I have not yet fitted them to a 335 style guitar ( hopefully very soon though ! ) - but in a slender bodied S.G. they where heavenly.
I must explain that I am also a great fan of Larry Carlton, and the sound I was hearing ( even in a slim solid body guitar ) - was spot on for those tones.
Specifically, when you turn a bridge Alnico II Stormy up, it never gets harsh - and when you turn up the neck, it never gets "boomy ". I have also found them very easy to balance and e.q. - as they are the most sweetly transparent and balanced pickups I have ever heard.
My conviction in this matter is further proven by the fact that I will be buying a '335' copy just to put the Stormy Mondays in !
I will of course report back as soon as I can ... :D
Any idea FF which 335 copy your going to get? I love 335's too and would love to get one but they are expensive so a good copy would do me with unpotted SM's.
Lovely looking guitar Elavd! Looks like LC's. He has a great tone and his playing is amazing.
Welcome!
Hiya Johnny :)
Yes, it looks like the Tanglewood TH502.
I tried an Aria TA-50, but the action was terrible, even with the bridge screwed down and the truss rod tightened. The binding / finishing / translucent finish was nicer on the Tanglewood too. When I e:maled Tanglewood for more information they replied quickly and helpfully.
I also tried a 'Vintage' 355 copy in another shop - and the neck and set up was amazingly good straight out of the box. However, overall I prefered the chrome/ nickel hardware - and simplicity of a 335 copy over a 355 copy. I saw on the web that that Ibanez had a nice looking guitar too, but it was £100 + more for things I did not need.
As luck has it, a local dealer / player had got a nice second hand Tanglewood TH502 in - and has set it up / dressed the frets e.t.c. at good price. When he brings it round to my place on Saturday, I only hope it feels as good as described.
I have the Gibson 335 wiring kit on the way from Axes'r'Us' - and of course the Stormy Mondays.
I am really looking forward to the upgrading and the playng !
Nice one sounds interesting. Look foward to hearing what you think of it!
I've wanted a 335 for years but always get side tracked by other things.
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Far East Guitars had a nice looking Yamaha 335 a like when I last looked.
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I agree that the Yamaha 335 copy that 38th Beatle recommended is indeed beautiful, and if I had more cash - would be sorely tempted.
The situation with the Tanglewood ( which just happens to be the same colour, Grover machine heads - but without the bound neck edges and prestigious 'Yamaha' name / Japanese provenance ) - is that I am being offered it at the £140 mark, frets stoned, set up thoroughly but second hand with a slight ( repaired ) chip in the headstock. I took the liberty of trying out a new one at a city centre music shop as a guide, and it felt substantial, was nicely finished, with pleasantly rich acoutic qualities. As I already have a 'spare' set of Alnico II Stormy Mondays and a full Gibson 335 wiring kit in the house, all I really wanted was a well adjusted / good neck, attached to some reasonably good wood !
As I am not bringing home a wage just now, the £400 + difference ( for a man who is also not currently gigging ) - represents a lot of groceries and domestic bills e.t.c. The same principle applied to any Tokai I also saw.
If I had I the cash, I would have of course been sorely tempted by the Yamaha. I have been planning to sell my 1976 Gibson S.G. Standard to raise money, but there is a lot of quality in the S.G. and emotional attachment. Such is life ...
I will however report back on the ' Tanglewood project' - to see if there is anything that meets the needs of forum members at different price levels. I just felt that at £140, ( subject to examination ) - the 'gamble' was worth the money, especially as I need a renovation 'project' just now, in addition to actually playing my beloved guitars.
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For that price and with a pro set up you can't go wrong, sounds like a great project to me! :D
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This is a clip that I've just uploaded to YouTube.
This is me playing my Gibson ES335 on a Tech21 Trademark 30 amp ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWqNwUu8rRU
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Great tone and playing!
Reminded me a lot of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djRAF_ph3TQ
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Great tone and playing!
Reminded me a lot of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djRAF_ph3TQ
+1
I wish Mr C would use Gibsons more often!
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Thank you very much!!!
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All this talk about 335's makes me want one.
I think I found a nice one. I'll have to save up for it but I'm thinking about Mississippi Queens for it.
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All this talk about 335's makes me want one.
I'm pretty much immune to 335 GAS, they're beautiful guitars but I'm happy to just look at them.
I've tried a couple and the body is just way too big for me.
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Hiya folks,
A quick interim update on the Tanglewood TH502 '335' copy.
Tanglewood claim to be a U.K. owned brand entity, overseeing the production of these guitars in the far east. My impressions are very positive so far. Their U.K. office / customer support certainly respond quickly and accurately to enquiries.
Firstly, I need not have bothered ordering the Gibson / CTS wiring kit, as they already have full size, smooth, 500k 'alpha' pots in there, fully screened wiring -and nice caps. Add to that , firm switching and solid input jack. The neck / action adjusts as straight and low as my U.S.A Gibson Les Paul - and the sustain / rich tone is evident even unplugged. There is apparently more mahogany involved in it's composition - and combined with the slightly extra thickness of body shell ( as with Jonesy's 335 copy ) - it makes it a bit more mellow ( but not dull )and less 'twangy' - ideal for me . Even the stock humbuckers sounded quite nice ! The machine heads are marker Grovers.
It does of course betray it's cheaper provenance in certain ways, such as the fact that the Grovers are a bit too chrome plated , quite short shafted - and so do not take more than about 3 wraps of string. The truss rod ( whilst fully funtional ) does not have that 'tight' feel that my Gibsons have. The nut is a cheaper ( abeit reasonably hard ) plastic.
At £140 ( only slightly marked / second hand ) - I sit in wonderment at it.
I have not yet have a chance to turn up the Stormy Monday's in it, as I want the neighbours to be out to try a selection of amps without inhibition e.t.c.
I am now in the process of "playing it in " - as with my Fender Baja before it, it initially feels a bit 'stiff' . I also gather from the Gear Page, that 335 types do feel different , even with a lovely low action. The fret board certainly feels wider, longer and altogether more spacious than my Les Paul or S.G.
Further observations / sonic conclusions to follow, but if like me , you get a chance to try one of these set up at under the £ 200 mark, I recommend you at least give it a spin.
( * EDIT - I just realised that in many ways, this entry should be in the ' Guitars & Amps ' section ? . If so - appologies to the forum moderators, I will move it if you require . It will eventually conclude with a 'Stromy Monday comparison / review / confirmation however * )
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Sounds an amazing guitar for 140 quid! I had a look on some sites at them and they do sound great value.
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This is a clip that I've just uploaded to YouTube.
This is me playing my Gibson ES335 on a Tech21 Trademark 30 amp ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWqNwUu8rRU
That guitar sure sounds nice, you play really well too, some great technique in there!
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I'm pretty much immune to 335 GAS, they're beautiful guitars but I'm happy to just look at them.
I've tried a couple and the body is just way too big for me.
+1
Glad your 335 worked out OK for you Derek - maybe I'll be able to check it out one day ;)
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I'm pretty much immune to 335 GAS, they're beautiful guitars but I'm happy to just look at them.
I've tried a couple and the body is just way too big for me.
+1
Glad your 335 worked out OK for you Derek - maybe I'll be able to check it out one day ;)
Sure thing Dave, if you are in the neighbourhood, do feel free check out this item of furniture ... :D
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I am interested to hear of your thoughts FF. That sounds like an incredible bargain. That Yam is out of my league too right now.
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I am interested to hear of your thoughts FF. That sounds like an incredible bargain. That Yam is out of my league too right now.
Hello !
After 2- 3 days of setting up and playing in, I can without a doubt recommend a Tanglewood TH502 or ( insert name of a Gibson / copy of your choice ) and a pair of Stormy Mondays as a match made in heaven.
I will detail my thoughts here, as opposed to starting another ' Stormy Mondays are great' thread.
The Truss rod I at first thought was " loose but fully functional " - was me having impatiently slackened it off to cure a minor fret buzz at the 7th fret, when all it need was the action a tiny fraction higher on the bass side. ( I usually have my bass strings hardly much higher than 1/32" at the 12th fret) . A touch more height - hardly measurable with a steel ruler, enabled me to turn the truss rod a bit tighter - and in doing so I realised that it then engaged / gripped and acted just like a Gibson / Fender would. ( The predudice started I suppose when I lifted the truss rod cover and found a deeply recessed small allen key adjuster, instead of the expected Gibson 'nut' ) . The fact that the neck was so close to straight without firm truss rod tension seemed like a good sign too.
The Grover 'kidney' machine heads that at I at first did not like the shorter shaft on, did however have proper tightening screws - and tuned to a fine ratio - then held their tuning without problems.
As I have already said, I would leave the smooth, full size , 'Alpha' brand 500k pots and thoroughly screened exisiting electrics ( long job to replace ) - and just lift enough wiring out to affix your B.K.P to the volume pots. You might want to fit orange drops whilst the tone pots are out too, but certainly not essential with this model.
Beware the temptation to fit a switchcraft toggle. The one already fitted is of good quality, and any Switchcraft / Gibson type requires that you take the Dremel to the guitar body and then hide the result, however nicely you do it.
The main thing was that I seemed to get a 'good' one with perfect neck angle, oiled fretboard - and level frets. The neck edges are not bound ( the body is ) - but the fret ends are beautifully finished from the factory.
My next concern was that it was a bit 'stiff' feeling. But like my Baja Telecaster, I just kept going back every day and re- assessing / adjusting the nut slots, bridge height, truss rod, intonation ( my bass saddles where initially on the wrong way round ) - and played those new D'addario 10 - 52 strings a lot to 'relax' them a bit. The percieved stiffness disappeared a bit more each day as I 'played it in' - plus I realised that it was the nice wide flat fingerboard that made barre chords at the 10th fret and above not curve into the palm / fingers as my 9.5 radius Telecaster did.
Ultimately it has set up better than my U.S.A Les Paul ( that was profesionally done ) - and closer to my 1976 S.G. - which has has been steadily tweaked and played in for 32 years !
The final ( and vital ) tonal clue came from forum member and 'You Tube' star 'ELAVD' - who influenced me to set the Stormys quite close to the pickup rings. Higher up at the 'usual' 2 - 3 mm mark, the Tanglewood / B.K.P combo sounded very nice, but more Chuck Berry than B.B. King. Keeping the gap really wide ( as I believe forum member 'SUSHI' does as well ) - it was instant B.B. King / Larry Carlton territory ( minus the talent of course :lol: ).
The stock pickups on the Tanglewood where nice enough to play as they where, not anywhere like B.K.P - but I can imagine that they would have given Epiphone and the Gibson 498R / 490T combo a run for thier money.
The nut is cheap, but hard enough to file accurately and not dampen strings ( I see the Gibson £2 K + Larry Carlton model has a nut that looks no better ! ) I therefore have left it in.
Had I been starting from fresh and employed a professional luthier to perfect the fret board, it still would have been less than £200 for the guitar, less than £ 200 for the Stormy Mondays - and shall we say £ 50- £ 80 for a bespoke set up ? The whole lot perhaps coming in completely finshed at less than £450 quid, or - as an existing B.K.P owner and being willing to do the tweaking yourself ( as we usually do anyway ) - £ 200 for a very nicely playing and sweet sounding version of a £ 2,000 guitar.
Be warned though ( not meant to sound patronising there ) - I tried an 'Aria' 335 copy at under the £ 200 mark - and the neck was terrible. It can still be a minefield out there.
I would still be interested to hear from others, but there does seem to be something in the spiel that Tanglewood are a U.K. business overseeing a far east production plant. Perhaps, ( because I did not mind a couple of minor blemishes ) - I just happened to get a good one. I do suspect however, that too many things where pleasing about the construction and apparent quality control of this guitar for mine to be merely a 'fluke'.
Now I have tried my Stormys in a Les Paul, an S.G. and a 335 copy, I feel that ( although they performed great in then all ) - Stormy Mondays and 335 / 355 style Semi-acoustics are a match made in heaven. If starting again, I would only change one thing, I would use unpotted Stormys, instead of potted - as I can imagine that would be even more appropriate. My reasoning being that an un-potted pickup 'breathes' in unison with the way a semi - acoustic 'breathes'.
Cheers !
Happy hunting and modding folks :D
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(http://forums.mg-rover.org/images/smilies/this_thread_is_useless_without_pics2.gif)
:lol:
Fourth Feline, we want some pics from your new baby and some Clips TOO !!!
I feel really anxious to hear the SMs on your guitar!!! ;)
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Great review FF - can't believe you got such a bargain! Awesome.
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Sounds fantastic FF! Yes post a pic of her.
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(http://forums.mg-rover.org/images/smilies/this_thread_is_useless_without_pics2.gif)
:lol:
Fourth Feline, we want some pics from your new baby and some Clips TOO !!!
I feel really anxious to hear the SMs on your guitar!!! ;)
I have no proper recording gear, but meanwhile - here she is ! I added a "Rhythm / Treble " Selector Ring, and changed the stock amber control knobs to black ones. You will see the slight / repaired 'ding' at the ( front ) top centre of the headstock, but it is not as noticable in ordinary light. The pearloid headstock inlay looks lovely 'in the flesh'. The wood grain showing through the translucent dark wine red finish.. The back and top arch very tastefully - and the neck perfectly oiled / frets polished.
Thanks for your interest !
( sorry if the pictures came out too big ) .
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/Fourth_Feline/Heresheis-1.jpg)
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/Fourth_Feline/Machineheads.jpg)
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/Fourth_Feline/TheycallthemStormyMondays.jpg)
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/Fourth_Feline/BindingandneckJoint.jpg)
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Simply wonderful!!! 8)
Congratulations!!!
I added a "Rhythm / Treble Selector Ring
Why did you put it ;) It's not a Les Paul clone... :roll:
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Simply wonderful!!! 8)
Congratulations!!!
I added a "Rhythm / Treble Selector Ring
Why did you put it ;) It's not a Les Paul clone... :roll:
I fitted the selector ring to hide the 'cosmetic alteration' caused by dremeling out the hole to try ad fit the Gibson/ Switchcraft toggle switch.
Like I said before, with this brand / model, I would leave well alone if I where you - and just use the stock 9mm thread length switch instead of trying to fit a 5mm thread length ( ? ) switchcraft.. :wink:
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I fitted the selector ring to hide the 'cosmetic alteration' caused by dremeling out the hole to replace the Toggle switch... :wink:
You could put this one instead:
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/rhythm_trouble.jpg)
:lol:
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I fitted the selector ring to hide the 'cosmetic alteration' caused by dremeling out the hole to replace the Toggle switch... :wink:
You could put this one instead:
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/rhythm_trouble.jpg)
:lol:
:lol: Absolutely brilliant ! now THAT is what I call a proper selector ring 8)
I wish I could get one locally. Thanks for sharing. :wink:
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Now change Rhythm to Rumble.
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It looks lovely for the price you paid, I want one now!
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It looks lovely for the price you paid, I want one now!
Thanks Johnny :)
the nice thing being that ( having 'googled' the model number ) - I / you could pick up a brand new , unblemished one for only about £ 40 more. That's why I wanted to know that regarding a general set up and testing - I had a motive and ' sweetener' to go down the second hand route with this chap at £140, instead of £ 179 new.
Given that I have found the electrics / Pots are full size , well wired and ready for your pickups of choice ( saving you £ 35 on the Switchcraft upgrade kit ) - you are basically in the same situation as me - as long as you get a good one. The percieved quality control seems to make that a fair probability.
Even I had to do the usual cutting of the nut slots down to my liking and spend a few hours setting action / intonation / truss rod / ( repeat as needed as the guitar nd new strings settles in e.t.c. )
Even if it does not feel or sound exactly like a 335 ( I have never played a Gibson one to compare ) - the excercise did prove to me that you can have one very nice sounding ( and affordable ) guitar that plays as smoothly as a \ Gibson.
If anything, the Tangelwood's slightly thicker shell , Mahogony neck and Alnico II Stormy Mondays - sound sweeter than 'You Tube' clips with a 'real' 335 fitted with Gibson '57 classics. The Tanglewood is more like B.B.King's 355 in overall character, than Larry Carlton's 335.
The interesting thing is ( I feel ) - is that to get that Larry Carlton' / '57 Classic 'snap' and bite, you would have to to use Riff Raffs, or at least Riff Raff Bridge / Stormy neck.
In conclusion, we create not a sonic replica, but instead create a new entity with a different - but equally valid sonic signature.
Cheers !
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It looks lovely for the price you paid, I want one now!
Thanks Johnny :)
the nice thing being that ( having 'googled' the model number ) - I / you could pick up a brand new , unblemished one for only about £ 40 more. That's why I wanted to know that regarding a general set up and testing - I had a motive and ' sweetener' to go down the second hand route with this chap at £140, instead of £ 179 new.
Given that I have found the electrics / Pots are full size , well wired and ready for your pickups of choice ( saving you £ 35 on the Switchcraft upgrade kit ) - you are basically in the same situation as me - as long as you get a good one. The percieved quality control seems to make that a fair probability.
Even I had to do the usual cutting of the nut slots down to my liking and spend a few hours setting action / intonation / truss rod / ( repeat as needed as the guitar nd new strings settles in e.t.c. )
Even if it does not feel or sound exactly like a 335 ( I have never played a Gibson one to compare ) - the excercise did prove to me that you can have one very nice sounding ( and affordable ) guitar that plays as smoothly as a \ Gibson.
If anything, the Tangelwood's slightly thicker shell , Mahogony neck and Alnico II Stormy Mondays - sound sweeter than 'You Tube' clips with a 'real' 335 fitted with Gibson '57 classics. The Tanglewood is more like B.B.King's 355 in overall character, than Larry Carlton's 335.
The interesting thing is ( I feel ) - is that to get that Larry Carlton' / '57 Classic 'snap' and bite, you would have to to use Riff Raffs, or at least Riff Raff Bridge / Stormy neck.
In conclusion, we create not a sonic replica, but instead create a new entity with a different - but equally valid sonic signature.
Cheers !
Great stuff Fourth Feline 8)
I shall try and have a go on one soon, I can imagine with SM's it would sound great
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Thanks for your continuing interest Johnny.
Bear in mind ( as I mentioned elsewhere ) I have felt the need to send my Stormy mondays to Tim for Alnico IV magnets fitting . I also spent the £5 on a nice resonant 'Graphtech' nut.
Forgive me for repeating myself, but I found that this model of guitar needs no help in sounding sweet and jazzy, but when listening to Larry Carlton play the tune " Just an Excuse " on you tube, it reminded me that he sometimes uses a touch of ' bite and snap'. I presume this is either the more strident sound of the Gibbo '57 Classic bridge, or that his 'real' 335 has a higher percentage of spruce in the guitar , whereas the Tanglewood has more mahogany. ( A c--ked wah pedal no doubt helped too ).
I e:mailed Tim and said that as lovely and syrupy smooth as Alnico II S.Ms where, I found that ( as detailed in Tim's excellent 'guide to magnets' ) - the bass was perhaps a bit too loose for my overall needs.
With the Alnico IV Mules I have , my mahogany guitars 'growl' and articulate that bit sharper on the bass strings, whereas with the Alinco II Stormy's they melt into a less distinct yet relaxing cushion of warmth.
He advised that the perfect balance would be to keep the Stormys, but that a change from AII to AIV would tighten the bass and make the frequency response yet more even. Of course a slight loss of percieved mellowness may be encountered, but there is always the bridge tone control - and the fact that my AIV Mules do mellow very nicely as well as other tonal 'colours'.
I mention all this, because I feel responsible whilst pursuing this 'project' - to report back the minutae, good , bad and just plain curious - just in case it helps someone else make a decision which may in the long run save money - or at least spend it in the right direction !
Again, kudos to Tim for not only taking time out to explore and explain my best option ; but also his honesty in recommending an affordable magnet swap, where less scrupilous business persons would have sworn I needed a completely new set for the sake of a more profitable sale.
I am just itching to get them back and try them !
Meanwhile I have been using bog standard Gibson 490T / 498 R - ( as displaced from my Les Paul by my Mules ).
It's not until you put generic / mass produced ( but equally expensive ! ) 'stock' pickups in a previously BKP'd guitar that you remember / realise what 'little gems' B.K.P really are ... :D
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It's not until you put generic / mass produced ( but equally expensive ! ) 'stock' pickups in a previously BKP'd guitar that you remember / realise what 'little gems' B.K.P really are ... :D
Phwoar, essay and a half.
Its even worse when you replace the bridge pickup alone, and then you switch to the stock neck :(
I want some SM's now (and the guitar to put it in :D )
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Thanks for your continuing interest Johnny.
when listening to Larry Carlton play the tune " Just an Excuse " on you tube, it reminded me that he sometimes uses a touch of ' bite and snap'. I presume this is either the more strident sound of the Gibbo '57 Classic bridge, or that his 'real' 335 has a higher percentage of spruce in the guitar
FF you should have in mind 2 things too:
1) Larry's playing technique is mainly based on using both the pick and his fingers when he hits the strings. If you notice carefuly in many of his videos (the most representative of all is his collection of 4 instructional DVDs), when he plays on the high strings, he slightly "pinches" the strings and this causes a mini-slap effect and thus a more perccusive sound in his phrasing.
If you watch closely the video that I posted, you'll see that I try to incorporate the same technique in my playing (of course the result are 1% close to Larry's sound...).
This is an important factor for this sound you are looking for, and so I would advice you that you should pay attention mainly to his technique, than the "incredients" of his guitars (which of course are also more or less important) ;)
2) I watched the video of Just an Excuse (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DiHPTigXoRE) and saw that (as I have told you via a PM) that he has set the pickups relatively low.
Check on 1:14" and you will see it yourself.
I think that by lowering the pickups, he achieves a more open and "airy" sound out of his 335, and in combination with his special tecnhique, he produces such a marvellous tone!!!
Also, in case you haven't seen it yet, check out the videos on his Mr335.tv site (http://www.mr335.tv/) under the "Tech Bench" section.
You'll find very valuable information about his setup ;)
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Thanks for your continuing interest Johnny.
when listening to Larry Carlton play the tune " Just an Excuse " on you tube, it reminded me that he sometimes uses a touch of ' bite and snap'. I presume this is either the more strident sound of the Gibbo '57 Classic bridge, or that his 'real' 335 has a higher percentage of spruce in the guitar
FF you should have in mind 2 things too:
1) Larry's playing technique is mainly based on using both the pick and his fingers when he hits the strings. If you notice carefuly in many of his videos (the most representative of all is his collection of 4 instructional DVDs), when he plays on the high strings, he slightly "pinches" the strings and this causes a mini-slap effect and thus a more perccusive sound in his phrasing.
If you watch closely the video that I posted, you'll see that I try to incorporate the same technique in my playing (of course the result are 1% close to Larry's sound...).
This is an important factor for this sound you are looking for, and so I would advice you that you should pay attention mainly to his technique, than the "incredients" of his guitars (which of course are also more or less important) ;)
2) I watched the video of Just an Excuse (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DiHPTigXoRE) and saw that (as I have told you via a PM) that he has set the pickups relatively low.
Check on 1:14" and you will see it yourself.
I think that by lowering the pickups, he achieves a more open and "airy" sound out of his 335, and in combination with his special tecnhique, he produces such a marvellous tone!!!
Also, in case you haven't seen it yet, check out the videos on his Mr335.tv site (http://www.mr335.tv/) under the "Tech Bench" section.
You'll find very valuable information about his setup ;)
Wow ! Thanks for the insights Elavd, :D
I have just taken delivery of his 4 CD-Rom tutorial set ( as a present to myself and a 'summer project ' ) - but have not yet had the chance to load them up and begin.
I will indeed go back to you Tube and watch " Just An Excuse" - particularly around the 1:14 mark - and re-visit '335 T.V to look at 'tech bench'. I did catch the bit about him liking 1/16" action at the 12th, but missed any reference on both '335 TV' and the " just an excuse" to his own pickup heights. I just know I really liked your own sound on 'You Tube' , but was not getting it with the pickups similarly lowered on my own guitar - and also ( as you have just enlightened me ) not using the 'snap' and upstroke techniques.
Thank you for your continuing help and enthusiasm in these matters Elavd - it's great to know that Larry has other 'disciples' too.... 8)
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Hi All,
Sorry to drag up an old thread but the information I found in here today made me feel compelled to sign up and post...
I've been looking at buying a Les Paul style guitar for the past month or so and had finally decided on a Tokai. I've seen some Japanese models for around £650 which is going to hit the wallet.
So to fund the purchase I thought I'd sell a few old instruments, my brother in law is buying my USA Tele but this will still leave me a few pennies short.
This morning I got up all set to sell my Cherry Tanglewood Chicago 335 style guitar, it's been a heart wrenching decision since I've done so many gigs with that old guitar. I bought it new around 16 years ago for around £400. It's always played well but I've never been really happy with the sound.
So I started my research only to see that the current value for the Chicago model is £175, I read some threads and learned that apparently there are 2 Chicago models due to production lines, maybe country of origin, a 'good' and a 'not so good'. From my experience I think I have one of the good ones!
This guitar has too much sentimental value to sell for £175! So I thought 'what about upgrading it?', Then I stumbled on this thread and am now in a state of excitement. I'm really keen to upgrade the pick-ups etc. Reading the posts on the success of FF's Tanglewood I am really excited about installing some new pick ups, I've never upgraded a guitar before and it is not something I would have previously considered.
I am now thinking that this upgrade may be enough to keep me away of the Tokia that have been eyeing lately.
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I would say that in view of your fondness for the guitar, a pickup upgrade is definitely worthwhile and that might prove to be the transforming element. Another thing to consider, whilst you change pickups, would be to upgrade the pots and switches. Welcome to the forum by the way.
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Thanks Beatle, I have asked the tech to quote on a total upgrade on the guitar including pots and switches, against the pick up only replacement.
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Welcome here. I hope it sounds like a dream after upgrading.
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Welcome here. I hope it sounds like a dream after upgrading.
+1000 ;)
Welcome!!!