Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: bamboofrog on May 23, 2008, 01:45:23 PM
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Hi All
I am looking to buy a tube amp suitable for home use and have a budget of upto £250. or will a tube amp be the wrong direction for home use anyway?
I mainly attempt to play Classic rock and blues (still very much a beginner).
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Cheers
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I'd see if you can stretch the budget a little and get the new Orange Tiny Terror combo. Great 'home use' valve amp for a good price in my opinion.
Best option by far.
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Yeah i LOVED the Tiny Terror when i tried it - just wasn't quite big enough for me so i went with the Mesa Boogie F-50 instead haha (much, much bigger and much, much more expensive)....which proves its a great amp for the price!
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Thanks for the reply, I didn't know they did a combo version, I will have look around to try one out.
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I'm not sure if it's inthe shops yet, but it's on their website and will be out very soon. For classic rock and blues at home it's a great reasonable priced option.
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Just had a quick search looks good, but it does stretch the budget to the tune of another £200, ouch!
I may just have to keep saving, darn patience was never one of my virtues :(
I don't think my wife would be to understanding if I slapped that on the credit card :D
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Is that what they are? £450? Ouch.
You could get a used head for around £200 and used 1x12 from somewhere instead?
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How about a used Peavey Classic 30?
Zaned
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Well £439 to be exact, but ouch indeed. I don't think they are out yet as that is the RRP and the online retailers are awaiting stock, so it may change.
I will have a look at the Peavey Classic.
I know it is below the budget point I stated but has anyone had much experience of the Epi VJ or Laney VC15? I quite like the simplicity of the Epi VJ, I get confued with too many buttons. :)
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The VJ is nowhere near the amp that the Tiny Terror is. I wouldn't bother with it if I were you. I have a heavily modified VJ combo and it's still not that great sounding an amp.....
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Good to know, the TT head unit alway looks a little bit delicate or rather not as robust (i guess that just means you can't rest your pint on it :D )
The clips I have heard sound really good. My local shops just don't seem to stock it, I may have to travel a bit further afield.
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The TT head isn't delicate, it's pretty robust.
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It's for home-use, plus you can pretend you have a toaster in your bedroom.
If you want a valve-amp I would recommend it is worth the time of saving up more for the Tiny Terror, head/cab or combo, which ever is cheaper.
Although for the cosmetic value, I like the head/cab more.
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Cheers Twinfan and Jonny
Ok probably a dumb question, but I am pretty new to this amp thing.
I presume with the head you have to plug it into a speaker/cab in order to use it.
Although I think Jonny's last post sort of answers me. :)
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Yes you do :)
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Oh no, I can see my budget spiraling out of control.
:oops: I guess that would explain why the TT is being released in combo version
Note to self: Really should learn to think first.
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I had the EVJ for a long time and wouldn't recommend it personally. It's one of those amps that seem great at first due to the price, but after a few months grows quite tiring. It literally sounds like there is a blanket draped over the thing. Very dark and boomy.
What about the new Fender Super Champ? I read good reviews and Fender has a pretty good reputation when it comes to tube amps. What exactly are you looking to play? Does it absolutely have to be a tube amp? If you open up your options, you may find something else that you like just as well in that price range.
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As I said I am very much a beginner still, I play Bluesy stuff and classic rock such as led zep, some Pink Floyd.
I suppose it does not have to be a tube amp, it was just my understanding that this gave you a better tone/sound.
I currently have a little 15w Volcano amp and sounds like I am playing through a tin can, which is a shame as I know that my guitar can sound really nice.
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Vox AD30VT, but I say that everytime someone is after an amp. If you haven't been playing very long and it's for bedroom use, then in my opinion (see signature below :lol: ) it doesn't get any better...... except for the fact that it'll eat any pick left on top of it :roll: )
It has a load of amp models so you can see what sort of type suits you and a load of effects to play with too. People moan that some of the models don't sound exactly like the originals, but the amp sounds they're thinking of didn't emminate from a 10 thumbed numpty like me, so it's close enough for my liking :D
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Tube amps are what most guitarists go for when they are looking for great tone but in your situation I don't know that it would be the best option.
1. Tube amps are very expensive and for the range you are looking at you will be sacrificing quality big time.
2. Tube amps are LOUD!! And, to achieve that great tone that they offer you need to get some volume out of it. I don't think you'll get the most out of a 15 watt tube amp when you never get it past 1 on the volume dial.
You can get great tone without buying a tube amp. For that price you should be able to get a good solid state amp. I would suggest going down to the music store and trying out everything in your price range.
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I love my TT and 1x12 cab. I paid £440 new for the set, so the combo seems a little expensive to me, plus if you buy serarates then you'll get a closed back cab, which I assume the combo isn't.
My first tube amp was (still is) a Peavey ValveKing 112 bought new for £280. I thought it was amazing when I got it and loved it. Then I heard the TT :)
Ok, to be fair to the Peavey, it has a great clean channel, really nice sounding, and I've now got a Blackstar HT Dual played into the clean channel and that sounds great.
The TT is a lovely crunchy amp, and worth saving up for.
The point Keller made is worth taking on board, tube amps are best when driven, they are also loud for their power rating. If you won't get the opportunity to crank it up once in a while, you may be better off with a good solid state amp. If you will get the opportunity to up the volume a bit then try to get a tube amp. The TT has a 7watt setting which helps.
I am biased towards Orange by the way, only fair to say that :)
(http://www.padfoot.plus.com/img/orange1.JPG)
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Thanks for the advice, it is really appreciated.
May be a decent solid state would be the way forward. Although it is hard to resist that Valve Jr price tag.
I think it is time to annoy my local guitar store.
I have to say the TT is also sounding tempting, talking on orange, are their solid state amps any good?
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Not sure about the solid state amps but the TT is extremely good for the price and easy to operate as it only has a few knobs to twiddle.
Check out this vid:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9MpZoWsFlJQ&feature=PlayList&p=0F4FDD4945135B75&index=3
Rob has a few orange amp demos on his youtube account - check them out!
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for classic rock and blues the TT is pretty good, as dave (twinfan) and everyone else has been saying. the laney vc15 or 30 would be good if you can't stretch to the TT, i think, they're nice amps for the money too for the tones you're after.
I like my valve junior, but you really have to turn it up to sound good as it has no gain control/master volume. it's kind of a one-trick pony as well, it's not exactly versatile.
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AS Dave says, the Laney LC/VC15 is another good choice. I forgot about that one!
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A laney lionheart 5w amp is also very good for home use. I have one and love it - you can get them for around the £420.00 mark nowadays.
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The Laney VC15 is mint, that would be your best choice considering it is actually in budget (minor dig at the double budget recommendations!). Everybody raves about the TT (and I've got my eye on the new combo) but with the head and cab it's no way near as portable as the VC15 and does not have reverb, so either budget minimum £50 for a pedal (Holy Grail) or don't bother playing Albatross!!
You could go the modeling route, Line 6 and Vox DA5 etc, that is basically digitally produced models of famous amps in a solid state format, this will give you a good range of sounds but can sometimes lack a little warmth and articulation that valve amps deliver.
Here's a summary of smaller amps I've owned.
Fender Vibro Champ
Very versatile, okay Digital effects with a valve power stage. Fender blackface(ish) tones in a small package. good at low volume.
In action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MagOWeWUMU
EVJ
One trick pony, sounds good at 3/4 volume but not loud enough for a band, too loud for home.
Laney VC15
Had one, sold it, wish I hadn't. Warm sweet volumes at bedroom levels and sounds great cranked.
Gibson Goldtone GA-15R
No longer in production. Lovely cleans, great harmonic rich overdrive and rich reverb, lovely sounding amp. Valve bases melt, crackles like a bitch and gets sent back 10 times, postage at my cost. Stay clear
Fender champ 12
No longer in production but readily available. Good fender clean tones although clean channel is limp and drive is a bit mushy
Fender champ 600
never owned but tried. Good twang for the bang but speaker farts and no verb.
Orange Tiny Terror combo
I'm going to get one with a Holy Grail Reverb so I can play Albatross!!
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Cheers for all the info, the VC15 sounds like it could be worth a look, although now I have heard all the TT compliments I might have to save up and wait for the combo :lol:
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The thing to do is to go out and try some of the suggestions made here and get your ears tuned to the various sounds. See if any of them jump out at you(so to speak) because, at the end of the day, you need to please yourself and if you are not used to tube amps ( forgive me if I am wrong here0 it would be a useful exercise and a lot of fun too. Any decent shop would let you use your own guitar and allow too for the "it sounded great in the shop" factor. For what it is worth, I have a Laney VC30 and whilst I wouldn't say it is the greatest sounding amp in the world-it does sound pretty good.I'd have got rid of it if it didn't. Judging by the VC30, the VC15 should be similar I would expect. I have played through a TT and that too was pretty darn good and I would love to get one. The combo version looks like a great bit if kit.
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The Roland Cube 60 is really a very good home amp. Really small too, also GAK are doing them for £150.
I just got one as "wet" amp in a wet/dry rig, but I have been surprised at quite how good it is on it's own. Also available to try out in most major towns/cities I would guess.
You need to decide what your final budget is really, and also how varied the sorts of tones you will want are going to be. if you want lots of different tones, on a tight budget, for home use, you cannot beat a modelling amp. If you can handle only having the tones a single tube amp can give, and also can stretch your budget significantly, then consider a small tube amp.
be aware that the Laney LC/VC 15 amps have a shocking reliability record (although you are bound to get some people who will say they've had one for years with no problems). I general, however, i'd stay away.
If you have not yet discovered the HC amp reviews, you are in for a treat (and a few days of reading) ! - http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp
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+1 on the Roland Cube.
Roland Cube amps are ideal for home use and give you a variety of effects and distortion onboard to play with. They also have a tuner onboard as well for recording and mp3 capabilities. Surprisongly good sounding amps. I love mine.
If you are interested I do a full review of the Cube 20X on youtube. Go to the players section and click on the clip and it will take you to my videos.
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Thanks for the info all, I have to say the advice on this forum has been great.
I will have a look at the cube, it was a nice review, I was really surprised by the tones you could get from it. I know my local shop has some of those, so it looks like I am going to have a fun afternoon. :D
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I've played a lot of small tube amps in the last few months, looking for the right one.
I currently have a Marshall TSL601, which I'm simply going to have to accept is just too much for home use. I also have a Vox AD30VT, which is a good practise amp but can't really touch a real tube amp.
Obviously I haven't tried an Orange TT combo yet but I would have to say that the best value for money small amp out there right now IMHO has to be the Fender Super Champ XD. It's not a true all tube amp, but it basically sounds like one. It's a hybrid solid state / tube setup in technical terms but (like the Vox AD30VT) but unlike the Vox the SCXD has a tubes for power output as well. The preamp tube has a dual triode, wich is why it can't be termed a true all tube amp.
Make no mistake though. This sounds like a 100% all tube amp. You simply wont be able to tell the difference.
Actually finding a new one in stock is a different matter altogether. At £199 they tend to fly out the door of stores just as soon as they get them in stock - or are snaffled by pre orders ....
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"wet" amp
WTF? You can play it in the shower? What the hell is a wet amp? (ok showing my noob credentials here :oops: )
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Fender Vibro Champ
Very versatile, okay Digital effects with a valve power stage. Fender blackface(ish) tones in a small package. good at low volume.
In action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MagOWeWUMU
Fender champ 600
never owned but tried. Good twang for the bang but speaker farts and no verb.
Orange Tiny Terror combo
I'm going to get one with a Holy Grail Reverb so I can play Albatross!!
I modded my Fender Champ 600 for less than £50 and also bought it new for only £114, with a bit of haggling in Sound Control. Altogether it cost £164, and the mod I did put 2 JJ Tesla valves in it, 1x ECC83 + 1x 6V6S as well as a Jensen CH6 speaker, it's now the perfect practice and recording amp, but only get it if you prefer complex/clean tones, orange are definitley better for dirtier sounds, but you can just put a distorition pedal in front of the Fender Champ 600 and it will be more versitlie. The stock speaker it comes with is pants though, so if you can only do one thing change that first.
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The preamp tube has a dual triode, wich is why it can't be termed a true all tube amp.
plus digital fx eww.
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Vox VR30's were only £100 when they were still avaliable, and they are amazing sounding for that price, if you can find one, they are awesome, a very simple amp, with a great tone.
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"wet" amp
WTF? You can play it in the shower? What the hell is a wet amp? (ok showing my noob credentials here :oops: )
Rich, a wet/dry rig is one where any delays/reverb go to a completely different amp/speaker rig. So your dry signal remains uncontaminated by delay or reverb trails.
This is much more important with any NMV amp or amp without an effects loop, as you are then forced to put delay/reverb before the distortion, which sounds cr@p IMO.
To get a signal from your dry amp you need to actually mic it, or tap the post-distortion signal somewhere after the power amp (the line-out of a hotplate is ideal). That signal then goes to delay and/or reverb processors, and the wet-ONLY (ie none of the original notes that are coming out of your dry amp) output is fed into another (the "wet") amp.
You have all the kit to do it if you want. Just use the VK's clean channel as your wet amp. The DD-20 has a wet-only output option.
Worth experimenting with if you use much delay. It sounds great !
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"wet" amp
WTF? You can play it in the shower? What the hell is a wet amp? (ok showing my noob credentials here :oops: )
Rich, a wet/dry rig is one where any delays/reverb go to a completely different amp/speaker rig. So your dry signal remains uncontaminated by delay or reverb trails.
This is much more important with any NMV amp or amp without an effects loop, as you are then forced to put delay/reverb before the distortion, which sounds cr@p IMO.
To get a signal from your dry amp you need to actually mic it, or tap the post-distortion signal somewhere after the power amp (the line-out of a hotplate is ideal). That signal then goes to delay and/or reverb processors, and the wet-ONLY (ie none of the original notes that are coming out of your dry amp) output is fed into another (the "wet") amp.
You have all the kit to do it if you want. Just use the VK's clean channel as your wet amp. The DD-20 has a wet-only output option.
Worth experimenting with if you use much delay. It sounds great !
Ok, I think that makes sense, but you will be quizzed when we next meet!
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Save your money youre at home... get one of these
(http://www.betterguitar.com/equipment/other_gear/news_images/vox_amp_plugs.jpg)
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Cheers
I thought about the Fender Champ 600, because like the EVJ I like the lack of buttons to play with, but the reviews seemed very mixed, lots of complaints about the hum. But if i find one I will have a go.
Sorry Ted the picture didn't show up so I am not sure what your recommnedation was.
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I have a Cube 60, it's currently being borrowed by a mate. It's certainly very versatile but I have to say it can't touch the real deal. All the models sound roughly in the ballpark but they all sound heavily processed and distinctvely fake sounding. Being a modeller the amp responds poorly to pedals as well. I'd say go for a cheap low powered valve amp with a proper preamp (i.e not VJ). Otherwise, I think the Vox are the best modeller at the moment so I'd go with one of those.
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In reference to the Roland Cubes, the 30 and 60X don't seem to be nearly as good as the 20X. Whatever sense that makes I don't know because I thought they were all essentially the same amp, just larger versions. I tried them all out side by side and thought that the 20X was far superior in terms of the quality of the effects and the sound. Very nice sounding amp and perfect for the house.
As far as the buzzing problems with the EVJ, that should be fixed with the current models that are in the stores. That doesn't fix the way the amp sounds though. :?
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That's interesting. I thought the same that the cubes were essentially the same just a bit bigger. I tried out the 30X yesterday, thought it was pretty good, quite warm. They didn't have a 20x to try.
I also tried the Marshall MG15 (I think), didn't really like the sound. Also tried a Fender Vibro Champ, very loud, good sound but I didn't like allthe voicings and effects, a bit to much for me.
I was recommended the Orange Crush 30R, by another guy in the shop. Has anyone had any experience with these, they seem to get good reviews.
My quest continues. :)
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one of these...
(http://techdigest.tv/voxamp-thumb.jpg)
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I saw those amplugs I thought they were just a gimmick. They might be worth a look for the late night practice when my wife and baby have gone to bed.
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I've played a lot of small tube amps in the last few months, looking for the right one.
Obviously I haven't tried an Orange TT combo yet but I would have to say that the best value for money small amp out there right now IMHO has to be the Fender Super Champ XD. It's not a true all tube amp, but it basically sounds like one. It's a hybrid solid state / tube setup in technical terms but (like the Vox AD30VT) but unlike the Vox the SCXD has a tubes for power output as well. The preamp tube has a dual triode, wich is why it can't be termed a true all tube amp.
Make no mistake though. This sounds like a 100% all tube amp. You simply wont be able to tell the difference.
Actually finding a new one in stock is a different matter altogether. At £199 they tend to fly out the door of stores just as soon as they get them in stock - or are snaffled by pre orders ....
I have to agree about this amp
Although my favourite amp is still my Nanohead, I have to agree that the Super Champ XD is great for the money. It's got a decent range of sounds and the more you turn it up the better it sounds.
Even some of the digital effects even sound half decent.
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I saw those amplugs I thought they were just a gimmick. They might be worth a look for the late night practice when my wife and baby have gone to bed.
Not according to the Guitarist clips I heard. The Ac30 version is amazing, not convinced with the others. These may be a bit of a gimmick.
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Tried out the Fender Champion 600 today, had some nice tones, not as loud as I thought it would be.
The amplugs look like a nice gadget to have. Has anyone had experience with these?
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That old problem of a tube amp for home use!
You have my sympathy because I've been there. Ultimately I concluded that for home use a tube amp simply isn't practical. To get the most from a tube amp it has to be driven and realistically that's never going to happen in the home. If you're not going to drive a tube amp properly then its advantage over some of the solid state offerings is marginal at best.
The Vox ADVT units mentioned are very good indeed, especially for the kind of music you're interested in, and a budget of £250 buys you anything in the range online. I've seen an AD-50VT 212 online for £239 and that would be enough to power a small gig and still be great for home use. The tube used in the preamp by Vox gives it some real tube warmth and it only comes a little unstuck on high gain models, in which case you could look at the newer XL series. The Vox AD-50VT2 XL can be had for £229 and is very good indeed at a huge range of styles. Tremendous value.
Another alternative already mentioned is the Roland Cube series. These are also excellent amps that offer good quality effects and amp models. The Dyna Amp function is clever and it covers a very wide range of sounds with some really good high gain models. I can't say it has the warmth of the Vox as it lacks the tubes but as the Cube 60 can be had for only £148 it gives you plenty money left over to solve that minor problem. I tried a Roland Cube some years ago and experimented getting a warmer sound by connecting to the amp via an Art Tube MP. The effect was impressive as the sounds warmed up considerably and that unit only costs £39 online. Of course, if you wanted to try other tube units to affect the sound there is always something like a Presonus Tube Pre at £79 or you could look at tube based guitar pedals like the Electro Harmonix 2ube or Blackfinger (£119), both of which would work very well.
All of this can near enough be had for your £250 budget and would give you a great deal more versatility than the same money on a basic valve amp.
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Can only agree with what has been said earlier regarding tube amps and home volume - I have a Peavey Classic 30 - between 1 and 2 is as loud as you can take it at home - unless you live miles from (or really hate) the neigbours!
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Cheers, I have been coming to the same conclusion. I think a solid state is the way to go for the home use.
I haven't tried the vox range yet, hope to do so this week.
Thanks for all the help
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The above is excellent advice. I have gone through several "home use" tube amps and have sold all of them because they are just too loud. There are plenty of other great alternatives out there that you will be happy with at home and may even keep a little money in your pocket.
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AS Dave says, the Laney LC/VC15 is another good choice. I forgot about that one!
i tried the lc15 a while back, i didn't much like it. i thought that the vc15 was a lot nicer, especially for blues/rock (didn't try them head to head, though, that's from memory). :) then again, when i tried the vc15 next to the vc30, i just thought that the vc30 sounded "better"... and that's pushing the budget again. :lol:
The thing to do is to go out and try some of the suggestions made here and get your ears tuned to the various sounds. See if any of them jump out at you(so to speak) because, at the end of the day, you need to please yourself and if you are not used to tube amps ( forgive me if I am wrong here0 it would be a useful exercise and a lot of fun too. Any decent shop would let you use your own guitar and allow too for the "it sounded great in the shop" factor. For what it is worth, I have a Laney VC30 and whilst I wouldn't say it is the greatest sounding amp in the world-it does sound pretty good.I'd have got rid of it if it didn't. Judging by the VC30, the VC15 should be similar I would expect. I have played through a TT and that too was pretty darn good and I would love to get one. The combo version looks like a great bit if kit.
agreed. :)
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Iv had this dilema too!!
I tried a whole bunch of different amps recently. I havent tried the SuperChampXD, but I tried the Vibro Champ xd, and it was v.good, but for me I found it too thin.
Id love a Fender Blues Jr for my bedroom but its too loud. After trying quite a few amps, looking for that warm clean fender tube magic that the Blues Jr gives. I only found two solutions good for bedroom use:
Cornell Romany Plus (V.expensive though)
and what I own, Tech-21 Trademark 30 (solid state, hard to dial in the right clean fender tones, but once you play with with real tube amps and learn how to use the Tech-21's switches, its REALLY good, only solid state I found that gives a real tube sound).
Btw iv tried the Roland Cube 60 and found it flat and fake.
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Cornell Romany Plus (V.expensive though)
yeah, it's great, but as you say, very expensive... :(
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I don't know if anyone here has experience of them, but there is an old battered about Award Session amp at our practice studio, and it's an absolute pearler. It is a 2 x 12 combo, and is very very bright, but really makes some good sounds (and I don't just mean hardcore good, here!).
I don't know how the rest of their stuff fares, but their cables are sublime value for money, and I get the inkling in my stomach that their amps might just be worth looking into...
Roo