Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Jonny on June 06, 2008, 11:34:08 PM
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So - Gotoh, Schaller, Wilkinson, Grover, Sperzel, Planet Waves.
Which one do you use?
I, if I remember use Grover or Gotoh. And they're good, but apparently not good for a product to sell. As the tech said mine were stiff so the tuning wasn't so smooth. Which I completely understand. So looking at ESP Eclipses, more money for better hardware I thought I'd put it to the test and to see if I could get it cheaper (with the cheaper model) and change the hardware to see if I would save some dosh.
So, in your opinion, what's the best or what do you simply use currently?
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Had a set of locking Sperzels on a Jackson a while ago. They are my favourite currently.
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Sperzels have got my vote too, I've used pretty much all of the above bar planet waves and I like sperzels the best although I do like the locking tuners on my PRS but you cant really get those aftermarket.
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i use gotoh 510's - sexy and very very good
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My old Hamer had Schaller's and the guitar never went out of tune.
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Gotohs all the way - locking or non-locking, vintage or modern.
I'm very fond of Schallers too, but they're relatively expensive and often quite hard to get hold of.
It's just personal preference though - there's absolutely nothing wrong with Sperzels, Planet Waves or Kluson/TonePros. Grovers are my least favourites but they're fine too. I've never tried Wilkinsons. But the locking Gotohs are my favourites.
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Looks like Sperzels are the dogs bollocks.
EDIT: WOO ON THE 1000!
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Schaller locking tuners all the way.
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Schaller locking for me too.
Gotohs are exceptionally well made as well, but a little stiff.
Schaller non-locking are very good and so are grover. (Both made from weaker material, though, not thta its weak enough to make a difference: I just know from having taken drills to them).
Havent tried the others.
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Sperzels to be honest, they're technically no better than anything else, but they have the nice wide grip and look great.
I also love the Gotoh Magnum locks that I have on my ESP, alot more subtle looking, a very neat system and they really work. However, I think the look of sperzels is just alot better, especially the matte black ones.
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Schaller locking tuners are really good, but they are a little heavy so I'd think twice about putting them on certain guitars in case they became neck-heavy.
The thing I don't like about Sperzels is that the gear ratio is only 12:1 (as opposed to 16:1 for Schallers & many other brands), but they are lightweight & work well.
My Jackson RR1T has the bog standard Gotoh SG38s on it & doesn't go out of tune more or less than any other fixed bridge guitar.
IMHO the brand/model of tuners on a guitar is overrated: the vast majority of tuning problems come from the nut...
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Planet Waves with the cutter mechanism, good, smooth action and eliminates a tool from my gigbag me likes :D . That 1:18 gear ratio is a must from now on.......
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Anyone a fan of the vintage slot head tuners? I've seen a few guitars with them and they look pretty neat.
I use the stock tuners on my MIM teles. Work fine for me. Did have the autotrim planet wave locking things for a while. Nice, but sold the guitar and wasn't blown away enough to fit them to my other guitars.
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Anyone a fan of the vintage slot head tuners? I've seen a few guitars with them and they look pretty neat.
Me! Big fan of slot heads on fender-type guitars - loathe anything else - it looks so much tidier on that fender headstock.
My first strat (way back in the early 80s) had them, and it confused the hell out of me. But once I'd figured out how to use them (I use the "cut to length and poke it down the hole method", apparently there are other methods) I've never looked back. In fact, I've even been known to replace non-slotted on a new strat or tele.
On tuners in general - I think I've used Gotoh and Schaller in the past, quite happily. But recently Jonathan at Feline "talked me into"(!) Tonepros when I needed replacement "tombstone" types for an Epi LP and SG. I'm surprised he hasn't mentioned them on this thread already ( :) ), but I will happily back up any recommendation he might make, they are good, they feel exceptionally smooth and well-made, it's a pleasure to tune those guitars now!
Jonny - congrats on the 1000! I'm entering the "nervous 90's", eyeing up that first century...
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I use the self cutting Planet Waves. They are outstanding. 18:1 ratio, self cutting and self locking. Excellent value.
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Sperzel locking tuners are my favorite. I also have two guitars with Grover Rotomatics, one with the art deco (imperial) heads.
The Sperzels are great with any guitar that has a non locking vibrato. Grovers awlays have a real solid feel to them.
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Schaller locking tuners are really good, but they are a little heavy so I'd think twice about putting them on certain guitars in case they became neck-heavy.
+1. PWs have the same issue, but to a slightly lesser extent.
My Thinline Tele is just about my only guitar which doesn't have locking tuners, for that very reason. The only direct replacements are the Fender/Schaller lockers, but the guitar is neck-heavy already.
But I'm going to put together a couple of solidbody Teles and I'm using the locking Fender/Schallers on those, so I'll see how they turn out.
Notice how everyone on this thread has different favourites! :lol: You really can't go wrong with any of them.
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... recently Jonathan at Feline "talked me into"(!) Tonepros when I needed replacement "tombstone" types for an Epi LP and SG. I'm surprised he hasn't mentioned them on this thread already ( :) ), but I will happily back up any recommendation he might make, they are good, they feel exceptionally smooth and well-made, it's a pleasure to tune those guitars now!
Are they the locking ones by any chance, Andy? I bought a set but I'm probably going to sell the guitar they were intended for, so I can't decide whether I should keep them for a future project or not.
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never actually used locking tuners... :lol:
but i have schaller, gotoh and sperzel non-locking tuners, and they all seem pretty good, as philly says it's personal preference... :)
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I've got Sperzel locking 'heads on my Pacifica 812, PRS SE Singlecut and Warmoth custom, and Gotohs on my Epi LP. I prefer the Sperzels, they're that little bit lighter than the Gotohs, and if I had the time over again I wouldn't put heavy tuners on such an already weighty guitar.
I also like the locking tuners on my PRS, and to be fair, the tuners on my Strat and Tele hold tune very well.
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what isn't pretty good, however, is my restringing technique for guitars without a locking nut. another perfectly good high e ruined... :oops: :lol: :evil: good job i use rotosounds, as they have a free one... :lol:
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You should try locking ones, Dave. Might seem like overkill on guitars with locking nuts, but it's so much easier.
I have locking tuners on nearly all my guitars now. I never had any problems changing strings with conventional tuners, but I really don't like the process somehow. :lol:
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... recently Jonathan at Feline "talked me into"(!) Tonepros when I needed replacement "tombstone" types for an Epi LP and SG. I'm surprised he hasn't mentioned them on this thread already ( :) ), but I will happily back up any recommendation he might make, they are good, they feel exceptionally smooth and well-made, it's a pleasure to tune those guitars now!
Are they the locking ones by any chance, Andy? I bought a set but I'm probably going to sell the guitar they were intended for, so I can't decide whether I should keep them for a future project or not.
No they're standard Philly. I've never tried locking tuners, not sure what I'm missing, if anything.
But the quality of the two sets (one was push-, one was screw- bushings) makes me think Tonepros know what they're doing. I notice Jonathan seems to like them for a lot of hardware. In fact, I might be looking for a new TOM bridge soon, and I'll be thinking of checking out Tonepros first. So if you've got a set already, and you can find a use for them in the future, I'd say hang on to them.
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... recently Jonathan at Feline "talked me into"(!) Tonepros when I needed replacement "tombstone" types for an Epi LP and SG. I'm surprised he hasn't mentioned them on this thread already ( :) ), but I will happily back up any recommendation he might make, they are good, they feel exceptionally smooth and well-made, it's a pleasure to tune those guitars now!
Are they the locking ones by any chance, Andy? I bought a set but I'm probably going to sell the guitar they were intended for, so I can't decide whether I should keep them for a future project or not.
No they're standard Philly. I've never tried locking tuners, not sure what I'm missing, if anything.
But the quality of the two sets (one was push-, one was screw- bushings) makes me think Tonepros know what they're doing. I notice Jonathan seems to like them for a lot of hardware. In fact, I might be looking for a new TOM bridge soon, and I'll be thinking of checking out Tonepros first. So if you've got a set already, and you can find a use for them in the future, I'd say hang on to them.
Locking for life. I can't live with normal tuners now.
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But the quality of the two sets (one was push-, one was screw- bushings) makes me think Tonepros know what they're doing. I notice Jonathan seems to like them for a lot of hardware. In fact, I might be looking for a new TOM bridge soon, and I'll be thinking of checking out Tonepros first. So if you've got a set already, and you can find a use for them in the future, I'd say hang on to them.
Yeah, this set has the screw-bushings - which is why I got them, to replace a more "modern" set. It's good that they offer a choice.
I wonder if anyone (Jonathan?) knows who makes the TonePros tuners? Is it the old Kluson company for real, or have they just bought the name? The TonePros bridges and tailpieces are all made by Gotoh, except - maybe - the wraparound bridge, which doesn't have a Gotoh equivalent. But the tuners are quite different from the Kluson-style Gotohs.
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How would you replace die-cast tuners? Since machineheads all have a different size. Or do you just go for a safe bet?
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How would you replace die-cast tuners? Since machineheads all have a different size. Or do you just go for a safe bet?
Long post coming.... :wink:
The sizes are actually pretty standard - they nearly all need a 10mm hole through the headstock (Sperzels and Planet Waves need 10mm all the way through, with the others you may find the hole is 10mm at the back and a little smaller on the face of the headstock).
Matching up screw holes is a little trickier. If the screw is on a "tab" at a 45-degree angle to the body of the tuner, then the appropriate Schallers, Gotohs or PWs will all just about line up.
If they're 3x3 tuners with the screw tab directly below the body of the tuner, then the appropriate 3x3 Gotohs, Grovers, PWs or even vintage Kluson types all, again, just about line up with the screw holes.
Some tuners have a little pin on the body of the tuner to hold it in place, rather than a screw. Sperzels have one pin, Fender/Schallers have two, some other Schallers have one! I think some Wilkinson tuners use this method too. In those cases, you need the same make of replacement tuner, unless you don't mind drilling extra holes.
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I am completely lost in reading that Philly. I just want to replace the die-cast tuners in my Ibanez without having to do any extra drilling, lol..
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I am completely lost in reading that Philly. I just want to replace the die-cast tuners in my Ibanez without having to do any extra drilling, lol..
:lol: Show us a picture of the back of the headstock.
I'd guess you'd be fine with Gotohs, Planet Waves or some Schallers, you'd definitely need to drill to fit Sperzels.
Do you want locking ones?
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You should try locking ones, Dave. Might seem like overkill on guitars with locking nuts, but it's so much easier.
I have locking tuners on nearly all my guitars now. I never had any problems changing strings with conventional tuners, but I really don't like the process somehow. :lol:
oh, i'm fine on guitars with a locking nut, it's the ones without which are the problem. I might try locking tuners when i get round to it... i seem to remember from the eggle forum that sperzel locking ones are a direct swap for their non-locking ones (could be wrong of course, i'll look into it), so that'd be the obvious place to start.
prepare for a review in around 5 years' time when i actually get around to doing this. :oops: :lol:
i'm actually fine with most of the strings... it's the high e. more often than not, what manages to "lock" the thicker strings on non-locking tuners doesn't manage to do it with the thinner 9-gauge high e... :lol: i'll have another go today...
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oh, i'm fine on guitars with a locking nut, it's the ones without which are the problem.
Why does the locking nut make any difference when it's the same type of tuner? :?
Do you string up, get it roughly in tune then clamp it quick before the high E falls off its tuner? :lol:
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I am completely lost in reading that Philly. I just want to replace the die-cast tuners in my Ibanez without having to do any extra drilling, lol..
:lol: Show us a picture of the back of the headstock.
I'd guess you'd be fine with Gotohs, Planet Waves or some Schallers, you'd definitely need to drill to fit Sperzels.
Do you want locking ones?
Think locking would be a bit pointless if the locking nut was present? Aren't they more expensive?
I was thinking Planet Waves, since it makes it easier on the re-stringing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GrimReapo/Picture2.jpg)
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i'm a big fan of the planet waves ones although its sometimes difficult to trim the string with thicker gauges
this year i have mostly been using sperzels - relatively lightweight and quite customisable... i like that the tuner can be taken apart and swapped for left handed and the shaft feels really solid with no wiggle... the planet waves also have very little wiggle
nobody likes a wiggly shaft!!!
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Think locking would be a bit pointless if the locking nut was present? Aren't they more expensive?
I was thinking Planet Waves, since it makes it easier on the re-stringing.
Planet Waves are locking!! :lol:
http://www.planetwaves.com/ptoolsdetails.aspx?ID=5
Looking at your pic, those are the type with no set screw, so they're probably held in place by a pin as I tried to describe. These Wilkinsons might fit:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-in-line-Wilkinson-chrom-locking-guitar-tuners-No-3or4_W0QQitemZ140207733046QQihZ004QQcategoryZ22672QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
I don't know if they'll be any better than what you have already, though. For most other tuners, you'd need to drill holes for the set-screws - for example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-in-line-Wilkinson-chrome-locking-guitar-tuners-No-2_W0QQitemZ140232876548QQihZ004QQcategoryZ22672QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
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i'm a big fan of the planet waves ones although its sometimes difficult to trim the string with thicker gauges
this year i have mostly been using sperzels - relatively lightweight and quite customisable... i like that the tuner can be taken apart and swapped for left handed and the shaft feels really solid with no wiggle... the planet waves also have very little wiggle
nobody likes a wiggly shaft!!!
I prefer Sperzels myself
The planet waves ones are good too but a pain in the arse if you are doing tech work and need to take the strings off again to make adjustments
You have to use a new set of strings each time!
You might go through 6 sets of strings on a tricky job- argh!
But they are pretty stable otherwise
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The planet waves ones are good too but a pain in the arse if you are doing tech work and need to take the strings off again to make adjustments
You have to use a new set of strings each time!
You might go through 6 sets of strings on a tricky job- argh!
But they are pretty stable otherwise
I found this also, when replacing pickups in a strat and messing about with switching I had to pull the scratchplate off and on a lot. Found a cool way of getting round it.
Instead of pulling the string through and tightening it while taught, put it through then give it a few cm of slack. Then tighten up the screw and turn till it clips. Gives you a slight bit of extra string on the post, still locked and when taking them off you can pull it a bit tighter and snip the end off when tuning up next. Bloody hard to explain in text...
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Think locking would be a bit pointless if the locking nut was present? Aren't they more expensive?
I was thinking Planet Waves, since it makes it easier on the re-stringing.
Planet Waves are locking!! :lol:
http://www.planetwaves.com/ptoolsdetails.aspx?ID=5
Looking at your pic, those are the type with no set screw, so they're probably held in place by a pin as I tried to describe. These Wilkinsons might fit:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-in-line-Wilkinson-chrom-locking-guitar-tuners-No-3or4_W0QQitemZ140207733046QQihZ004QQcategoryZ22672QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
I don't know if they'll be any better than what you have already, though. For most other tuners, you'd need to drill holes for the set-screws - for example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-in-line-Wilkinson-chrome-locking-guitar-tuners-No-2_W0QQitemZ140232876548QQihZ004QQcategoryZ22672QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
Oh dear. I kind of contrdicted myself there.
I have three exams on Firday give my brain a rest!
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Oh dear. I kind of contrdicted myself there.
I have three exams on Firday give my brain a rest!
Bad time to make any decisions you might regret later! :wink:
Good luck with 'em!
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Only had experience with schaller locking tuners and sperzel locking tuners.
I liked the schallers better because of the weight!!!
the sperzels just feel kind of cheap compared to the schallers, + the superior turn ratio of the schallers makes precise tuning easier for me.
And I believe the extra weight at the headstock increases the overall sustain of the instrument (might be another guitar voodoo thing but I still believe in it, because guitar tone is all about guitar voodoo :lol: )
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Too much talk of Sperzel and Waves here :)
My faves: LSR gearless tuners. 40:1 ration (or something like that). These are locking micro-machine tuners with a linear pull. (micrometer like action).
Some people find them ugly but I find them pretty cool extremely practical - once an initial learning time has been experienced. They work wonderfully and have enabled me to remove the string trees from my strat (behind the nut bends) and have given me unprecedented tuning stability despite a floating vintage trem.
Well worth checking out.
cheers
tremblox
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I use Gotoh 381 on my Floyd guitars. Stiff to turn yes, but that's the feel of quality. Superb machineheads, can't fault them.
I have Sperzels on my Fly Mojo (no locking nut), and they are excellent too.
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I have Sperzel locking tuners, and my guitar rarely goes out of tune, and when it does it is only ever an extremley tiny change in pitch that most people wouldn't be able to hear. It stay's in tune sometimes perfectly for over a month.
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I have Sperzel locking tuners, and my guitar rarely goes out of tune, and when it does it is only ever an extremley tiny change in pitch that most people wouldn't be able to hear. It stay's in tune sometimes perfectly for over a month.
+1
My Viper has stayed in tune perfectly since I bought it.
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Why does the locking nut make any difference when it's the same type of tuner? :?
Do you string up, get it roughly in tune then clamp it quick before the high E falls off its tuner? :lol:
i think so, yeah. :lol: :lol: :lol: problem with having your first (and second!) guitar with a locking nut, you never learn properly, then it's too late to ask and it's embarrassing... :lol:
i think i've got it sorted now, anyway. :)
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In my humble opinion the Gotoh 510 tuner is probably the highest quality tuner on the market right now. Not everybody likes the rounded smooth very Japanese styling of them but they are incredibly smooth and come in two different gear ratios. Personally I've had some real quality issues with Sperzels and have sent several sets back with bits missing or rough gears.
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My faves: LSR gearless tuners. 40:1 ration (or something like that). These are locking micro-machine tuners with a linear pull. (micrometer like action).
Some people find them ugly but I find them pretty cool extremely practical - once an initial learning time has been experienced.
Yeah - they are great
You are definitely right about the learning bit- learning how they work and how a string is secured in
Some very clever engineering going on in them
Sadly too clever for some players
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In my humble opinion the Gotoh 510 tuner is probably the highest quality tuner on the market right now. Not everybody likes the rounded smooth very Japanese styling of them but they are incredibly smooth and come in two different gear ratios.
And they make them in vintage styles too! :D
http://www.hosco.co.jp/HOSCO_ENGLISH/Pages/Gotoh.html
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My faves: LSR gearless tuners. 40:1 ration (or something like that). These are locking micro-machine tuners with a linear pull. (micrometer like action).
Some people find them ugly but I find them pretty cool extremely practical - once an initial learning time has been experienced.
Yeah - they are great
You are definitely right about the learning bit- learning how they work and how a string is secured in
Some very clever engineering going on in them
Sadly too clever for some players
What about the Steinberger gearless tuners? They look a bit strange (as do the LSRs), but they really suit a Firebird!
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/1/Steinberger_Gearless_Tuners/Pictures.html#details
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http://www.hosco.co.jp/HOSCO_ENGLISH/Pages/Gotoh.html
ah, thanks for that link philly, i didn't realise gotoh had an english part to the website. last time i checked it was all in japanese and my brain exploded... :lol:
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I read somewhere there are machine hears which are something like $600!!!
Does anyone know what they are?