Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: robharries13 on June 09, 2008, 10:08:05 PM
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ugh, i guess im not the only one who's ever had this.
its just one of those days where i just cant seem to play anything right. ive just discovered that for the the past four and a half years ive been holding the pick wrongly, my playing is very inconsistent, and for the past few months i just dont think ive been advancing in my playing at all, i assume as a result of the pick problem. guitar playing is, like most here, my main hobby, an its something id love to master.
its just a bit disheartening, knowing ive got to go back to the start in a way :(
anyone ever had this? :cry:
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ive just discovered that for the the past four and a half years ive been holding the pick wrongly
Unless you've got it in your teeth or your left hand (assuming you aren't a 'leftie'!) then I'm not sure how you could be holdin it wrong? :)
Many guitarists will hold it in different ways to get different results - what couldn't you do before that you felt the need for a change?
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Not to worry my good friend. I held my pick wrong for years and I was quite happy with my playing and it wasn't untill I wanted to speed up that I learnt I had to adjust it, once I did I was away( or at least in my own little world I was! :lol: ) You might find it takes a few weeks to get really comfortable with your new pick position but it work out in the end.
Dont think of it as going back to the start, think of it as refining your technique.
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Who says you're holding the pick wrongly? I play 'wrongly' by wrapping my thumb over the top of the neck. Works for me and it's part of my style of playing. As is shaking the neck when I'm doing vibrato :roll:
Just practice the way that feels best to you, and develop your own way of doing it :D
(And yes, I have days when I can't play for sh1t. Then I have days like today when I'm godly :twisted:)
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I play 'wrongly' by wrapping my thumb over the top of the neck.
I do that too. Last teacher used to pick up on that religiously and rollock me about it! :lol:
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And yes, I have days when I can't play for sh1t.
I have those days too. About 364 of 'em in a good year (probably 365 this year). The rest of the time I'm awesome.
But seriously, what's the "wrong" way of holding the pick? I've seem people who play with their thumb straight, others who have it bent, people whose picking motion comes from the wrist, others who just move their thumb and first finger. EVH holds it with his thumb and middle finger, Marty Friedman has the weirdest, most uncomfortable looking right-hand technique I've ever seen. They all seem to work.
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I don't really see myself advance in any skill or anything.
I just a play a song via Guitar Pro until I can play it by just following the drums or rhythm or the actual song. That's satisfactory for me.
And when you can't play properly today - it's not a good day for it.
As scary as it sounds, there are other things apart from guitar so you should stick to that until tomorrow. Unless you're a stubborn bar-steward like me and just dampen the skill level down a bit in what you're trying to do.
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I play 'wrongly' by wrapping my thumb over the top of the neck.
I do that too. Last teacher used to pick up on that religiously and rollock me about it! :lol:
That's wrong? :? I don't do it, but i thought that was how you were supposed to...
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I play 'wrongly' by wrapping my thumb over the top of the neck.
I do that too. Last teacher used to pick up on that religiously and rollock me about it! :lol:
That's wrong? :? I don't do it, but i thought that was how you were supposed to...
Well the teacher was from a classical background, which have had something to do with it.
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I play 'wrongly' by wrapping my thumb over the top of the neck.
I do that too. Last teacher used to pick up on that religiously and rollock me about it! :lol:
That's wrong? :? I don't do it, but i thought that was how you were supposed to...
It limits your reach quite a bit, playing with your thumb against the middle of the back of the neck affords you WAY more movement in one position, but it's not very practical if you're playing standing up unless you wear your guitar hella high up.
Aside from anything else, if you need that extra reach for a part it;s not very hard to move your thumb. Extremely traditional tutors of any instrument are really quite a nuisance :lol:
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tbh I thought it was best to vary it, vibrato and open chords usually get the thumb over the top, when you need more reach, you go to the back...
I believe Jake E Lee picks at a 45 degree angle to the strings, relies on grooves in the pick created from pick slides, and hits it hard. Or something like that anyway... Maybe its wrong, but I $%&#in' love his work, and he is better than most of us around here I would think, so I am not to complain
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It limits your reach quite a bit, playing with your thumb against the middle of the back of the neck affords you WAY more movement in one position, but it's not very practical if you're playing standing up unless you wear your guitar hella high up.
And what's wrong with that? I play most of the time with "correct" classical hand position, it's the most comfortable and the most convienient. I just do the thumb-around thing when playing easy stuff that alow it. Lots of players do the same. Watch Jason Becker play technical stuff and he's got his thumb way behind the neck, then when he plays blues and country licks he grabs it.
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I tend to think "whatever works best for me" nowadays.
On the thumb round the neck, I tend to use both ways now, but I learnt originally to play with the thumb - actually to use it for fretting the 6th string if necessary (I believe that's my folkie past coming through...)
On the shaking the neck when playing vibrato, I noticed a few months back that SRV did it when I was watching a DVD. Hoho!! I thought, this is how he got that enormous, sexy, and accurate vibrato on two-fret-bend notes... that's for me, I thought... But can I do it? Can I f... (old horse, new trick, etc :( )
As for holding the pick - I use several different methods (including not holding one at all), they all work in different ways and produce different sounds.
And finally (why can I never write short, punchy posts like most of you?) on those days when the guitar just isn't working properly - it isn't you btw! :) - don't be a slave to it, you have two options: put it down and do something else, or keep playing and make the wretched thing do what you want... I just pick the option that seems most enjoyable at the time.
Does anyone else notice that, invariably, a bad guitar day is usually followed by a day when your playing is, er, "godly"? But unfortunately no-one else is there to hear it! (Philly, I think I know what your answer might be, but I'm not sure I believe you :lol: )
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Thumb overs are CORRECT for blues and folk based music - which therefore includes rock. Otherwise Robert Johnson, Son House, Jimi Hendrix, SRV etc etc are playing wrong. In fact you can't play those styles without thumb overs in some cases.
Thumb overs are only incorrect for the followers of Andres Segovia and his very narrow view as to how the guitar has to be played. Even some classical guitar manuals from the 18th and 19th century indicate fretting notes with a thumb, so the no thumb thing is a new invention. The whole snobbery about not doing it came about because the Torres guitar (the modern classical guitar) had a wide neck so thumb overs interfered with balance and because flamenco players do it to look flash. Segovia hated flamenco as it made the guitar look like a folk instrument (which it is) snf not a serious classical instrument. So one man's prejudice has become gospel spread by conservatoire educated guitarists. As with all irrational rules - ask them why its wrong for a non wide necked (i.e. classical) guitar - their normal answer is just: it wrong, or they will talk about RSI to scare you.
(this and other myths perpetrated by classical guitar are particulars gripesof mine btw)
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Does anyone else notice that, invariably, a bad guitar day is usually followed by a day when your playing is, er, "godly"? But unfortunately no-one else is there to hear it! (Philly, I think I know what your answer might be, but I'm not sure I believe you :lol: )
I not kidding when I say I never sound godly, but I do have the odd day when I think wow, that actually sounded pretty good. Then the next day (or month, or year...) the same guitar on the same amp settings will sound utterly shitee, for no apparent reason. I did have a magic moment recently where I spontaneously started playing a Wishbone Ash lick I'd never played before - without consciously even intending to attempt it. That was weird.
As for holding the pick - I use several different methods (including not holding one at all), they all work in different ways and produce different sounds.
Yeah, I do that too - change the pick angle, hit the string with the pick and the skin of my finger, use pick and fingers, pick at different points on the string. All very much influenced by Roy Buchanan, I have to say, and all very sloppy and untidy. Not at all like the precise approach shredders have, but I can't do that stuff.
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Interesting, Elliot. It was certainly my teacher's classical background that influenced her then.
She did say that the reason to keep the thumb on the back of the neck was for 'support'. In other words, it helps you fret more accurately/cleanly.
Perhaps some truth in that. I think for runs it's natural to move your thumb to the back of the neck, and bring it down for bends/vibrato e.t.c.
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Marty Friedman has the weirdest, most uncomfortable looking right-hand technique I've ever seen.
I just thought this needed to be highlighted.
:D
One of the good things about never having had a lesson, is I don't find out about all the bad things in my technique, and I don't care overmuchly. I adapt my technique to play what I want to play. I'm sure there will come a time where I decide, ahh heck, let's do this "properly", but in all honesty, it's the sound you make that matters, not whether you get there in the same way as anyone else :)
That's probably terrible advice, of course :)
For what it's worth, I don't know if there is a *right* way to hold a pick. If you find you can't pick fast enough, then you might want to try changing the way you hold it to see if it helps, I suppose. I use very chunky picks (3 mm stubby triangles from dunlop), and I mash them up good and proper, but as long as I'm getting the note definition that I'm after, does it matter?
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On the shaking the neck when playing vibrato, I noticed a few months back that SRV did it when I was watching a DVD.
Did he? I didn't know that. Wish my vibrato and tone was a good as his was :cry:
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On the shaking the neck when playing vibrato, I noticed a few months back that SRV did it when I was watching a DVD.
Did he? I didn't know that. Wish my vibrato and tone was a good as his was :cry:
So do I... I don't want to sound like him, but I want to know how to, so that I can use the bits I want.
I think it was the Live at the El Mocambo (spelling?) DVD that I spotted him doing the neck shaking thing.
On a good day I'm quite happy with my SRV approximations (and it doesn't need to be a strat through a fender-type amp folks - I'm reaching the conclusion that most of it is in the fingers...) - but there's a particular thing he did that I just can't get consistently (or accurately): on the first or second string, play 2 frets below the note you want, immediately bend up to pitch, and then apply the massive vibrato, KEEPING IT IN TUNE...
Without watching him at the same time, he was so accurate with that vibrato, that you think he just played the note and applied vibrato - but it doesn't sound quite right if you do that. Watching film at the same time, it's the split second 2 fret bend up first... but if I do it I can't keep the note in tune!!
It was then that I noticed his whole arm and the neck of the guitar are going. I'm almost convinced that was how he did it, and I'm determined to master it!
Of course, even I do master it, stringing all the tricks together and playing at that intensity for more than say 2 bars at a time without snapping a finger - well that's another matter!
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It's a similar thing to what Angus Young and Dave Gilmour do too - full bends, with vibrato on top. It's easier to do higher up the neck where you're in the middle of the string and the strings are more flexible. Try mastering it there first, then try it nearer the bridge or nut.
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I was going to ask you whether Mr Young did it as well - and then I thought "it's a good excuse to watch Plug Me In again"!
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Yep, Angus does it a LOT. It's what makes Angus sound like Angus.
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thanks for the posts guys :)
my picking at the moment is between my first finger and thumb, but only my 2nd, 3rd and 4th fingers are closed into a fist. my first finger points towards the point of the pick. if that makes sense?
what i think it is, is that, because i dont think my playing has been advancing much recently, ive looked for a culprit to blame on my lack of progress. namely my picking technique.
anyone out there use this picking ahnd position too?
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my picking at the moment is between my first finger and thumb, but only my 2nd, 3rd and 4th fingers are closed into a fist.
anyone out there use this picking ahnd position too?
Pretty much exactly what I do - with my thumb held rigid, not flexed at the knuckle. My 2nd, 3rd and 4th fingers aren't closed into a tight fist, though, they're curled into my palm but quite loose. Then I think I open them when muting at the bridge. And I sometimes do pick-and-fingers with my middle finger.
Don't know why I'm writing this really, it probably is terrible technique. :wink:
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malmsteen would appear to have identical pick holding:
http://www.yngwie.org/images/Magazinecovers/YG4.jpg
http://www.yngwie.org/images/Magazinecovers/YGcover84.jpg
judging by the photos anyway.
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You could experiment with more positions, whilst still retaining this as your No1. I changed form 1st finger and thumb to 1st, 2nd and thumb after seeing EVH and that gave me more control but also some extra 'looseness'. I still use 1st finger if I am chugging out some chords cos I can get a fatter sound. Equally I quite often don't use a pick at all, or hold it away between 1st and second fingers to allow me to fingerpick because that also allows more tools to get what I want (not sure where the influence for that came from..could just be learning classical originally and wanting to interchange for rhythm parts).
When I was younger I was a shocker for changing things - slung guitar high, low all points in between. Finger vibrato classical style, shake the neck, pivot the wrist...and so on and gradually they have all become part of my range of techniques (not strap length these days though!)...so go to it, play around and see what works and use it :)