Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Philly Q on June 19, 2008, 07:19:10 PM
-
OK, I've just sold my Edwards Potbelly to a guy in work. He's in his 50s, taking up guitar basically from scratch and he wants an amp strictly for home use - he lives in a little studio flat during the week then goes home to his wife in Gloucestershire at the weekends.
He's looking for a small, bells-and-whistles combo which will give a variety of useable sounds at bedroom levels. We're not talking valves - probably something with digital modelling and built-in FX. Costing no more than, say, £150. And must have a headphone socket.
I was thinking of the Roland Cube range, but I'm not too clued-up on the different models - don't some of them have built-in drum patterns and things like that? And what about alternatives - the Vox AD15 maybe? Anything else?
Any ideas would be much appreciated. :D
-
yeah vox's sound better to me..also there's the da5 vox
-
The cubes are great considering the price, I really like my cube :)
-
+1 on the vox for £150 you can get the ad30vt (£129 on GAK) worth it for the 12" speaker and the two footswitchable channels. I think they sound better than the roland's.
-
I'd say it really depends on what he plays... from what i remember, i preferred the roland cube for high gain stuff (tell him to avoid the 15 and 20 watt versions, as they don't have as many (if any) amp models), while i preferred the vox for more vintage tones. To me personally, the cut-off was 80s rock/metal- anything 80s rock/metal and heavier i preferred the cube, anything lighter i preferred the vox.
Though if he plays an equal amount of both, i'd prefer the cube, as i wasn't too fussed on the vox's high gain tones (there's a new higher gain vox valvetronix out, but i haven't tried that, and i've heard mixed reviews)...
just in my opinion, and bear in mind i've never owned either, that's from faffing about in a shop... EDIT: i'm not sure about headphones either- i'd assume they have them, but i wasn't looking into that. Not sure about drum patterns either... :lol:
-
To me personally, the cut-off was 80s rock/metal- anything 80s rock/metal and heavier i preferred the cube, anything lighter i preferred the vox.
I don't think he'll be looking for anything very heavy - not sure, but I think he likes fairly middle-of-the-road '70s stuff.
I'll do some more reading up on the Roland and Vox lines. I'm liking the sound of the Vox AD models I think.
-
EDIT: i'm not sure about headphones either- i'd assume they have them, but i wasn't looking into that.
Actually, isn't that quite a key point?
If you think about the difference that a decent set of 'phones makes to the sound of something (even an iPod), it must be worthwhile spending a fair amount on decent 'phones, else you might not get the full quality of sound from the amp - the amp is producing the sound, but you can't hear it through bad 'phones ...
Just a thought :?
-
Good point, but I think the phones are more for keeping quiet than getting optimum tone.
Anyway, I'll help out on the amp but let him sort out the phones bit for himself! :wink:
-
I am loving my Fender 'G-Dec Junior'. You can only select one effect at a time to compliment the amp type being modeled, but the simple 'band in a box ' type bass, drums and piano loops in any key or tempo are great for either teaching timing in a more 3 dimensional way than just the straight metronome - or great for jamming when he gets more advanced. The 'band' has a seperate volume control fromthe guitar too. Simple idea, but very handy.
The Junior version is all operated from knobs on top of the amp, ( no menus to scroll through ) very sweet sounding fromthe factory ( even nicer with a 8"speaker upgrade ). I even like the look of the thing as well .
:D
-
Thanks Derek, that goes on the list too! :D
And price-wise, it's comparable with the Vox AD15VT and Roland Cube 20X. All 15-20W and 1 x 8". I also quite like the look of the Micro Cube RX, with four little 4" speakers, but it's a fair bit more pricey.
Must admit I'm getting tempted to buy one of these myself! :lol:
-
I absolutely love my Cube. The Cubes do not have a drum machine on them. The 20x has 6 effects (tremolo, delay, reverb, chorus, phaser, flanger) and 5 distortion settings, as well as a tuner, acoustic simulator, clean channel, and onboard EQ. You can plug in your headphones and MP3 player to jam along. Can you tell I love it! :D
I wouldn't suggest the 15x as it lacks the effects. The 30X and 60X are the same as the 20X, they just have a few more distortion settings and are higher wattage.
-
My cube 60 is very impressive for what it is.
On the "Vox or Cube" debate, I'd add that I'd take Roland's reliability record over Vox's anyday ! The Cube is certainly well built, and has an amazingly tough exterior (I wish all amps were as resilient to scuffs and scr@pes). I hear that the Cube's one weak point is the plastic input jack, which can be broken if it gets yanked or banged.
-
I absolutely love my Cube. The Cubes do not have a drum machine on them.
I think the Micro Cube RX has some built-in rhythm patterns, but it's a bit different from the other Cubes - seems to be aimed more at buskers with its battery option and strap.
If it was for me, I'd be (slightly) leaning towards the Cube 20X. I think m'colleague, having grown up in the '60s, might be swayed by the Vox name. I don't know about the reliability issue, but the Vox range uses Korg's REMS technology, which I've been impressed by in my various Korg Pandora models.
I'll do a really detailed comparison of the specs over the weekend. :D
-
(deleted)
-
Yeah, take the valvetronix for everything but scooped, high gain metal. (Wich the vox still does well enough). (My mates 15W valvetronix sounds better for 9 sounds out of 10 than my cube 30 - and the cubes sound very good for what they are!)
-
If the Vox is on the list then I'd pay the extra few quid and get the AD30VT, purely for the attenuator on the back........... and for when the neighbours are out :lol:
-
Yeah, take the valvetronix for everything but scooped, high gain metal. (Wich the vox still does well enough). (My mates 15W valvetronix sounds better for 9 sounds out of 10 than my cube 30 - and the cubes sound very good for what they are!)
Thanks Mark, useful to have the direct comparison! :)
I know the Cubes have clean (sorry! :wink: ) sounds based on the Roland JC120 - does the Vox compete OK with those too?
(Just to confirm, this is the regular Valvetronix range, not the XL range? I think the XLs would be too OTT.)
If the Vox is on the list then I'd pay the extra few quid and get the AD30VT, purely for the attenuator on the back........... and for when the neighbours are out :lol:
Very good point, I completely missed that feature when looking at the specs! But it could be very useful - does it work effectively?
-
Yup :D
I had a proper guitarist come round and have a go and he was well impressed with it. If you turn it right down then it's bearly audiable. If you turn it right up then it's bearly bearable. I think that for this kind of money, it's a very good buy.
EDIT: One of my mates borrowed this amp for a bit and now he's going to buy one........... same went for my brother 8)
-
I think I give a definitive answer/opinion on the Cube vs Valvetronix debate.
I used to own a Cube 30 and sold it to get an AD30VT.
The Cube is far more solidly built. It could probably fall of the back of a moving truck and be fine - whereas I feel I have to be really, really careful just carrying the AD30VT.
When it comes to sound, it's a different matter.
Quite simply the AD30VT eclipses the Cube 30 in all areas - soundwise.
The Cube 30 isn't even in the same league as the AD30VT really.
-
^ i'm not sure you can say that definitively; a lot of that's personal preference, surely?
To me personally, the cut-off was 80s rock/metal- anything 80s rock/metal and heavier i preferred the cube, anything lighter i preferred the vox.
I don't think he'll be looking for anything very heavy - not sure, but I think he likes fairly middle-of-the-road '70s stuff.
I'll do some more reading up on the Roland and Vox lines. I'm liking the sound of the Vox AD models I think.
i'd probably personally go with the vox then, if that's the type of music i were after. :)
EDIT: i'm not sure about headphones either- i'd assume they have them, but i wasn't looking into that.
Actually, isn't that quite a key point?
If you think about the difference that a decent set of 'phones makes to the sound of something (even an iPod), it must be worthwhile spending a fair amount on decent 'phones, else you might not get the full quality of sound from the amp - the amp is producing the sound, but you can't hear it through bad 'phones ...
Just a thought :?
i meant i wasn't sure if it had a headphone socket or not, as i hadn't looked... :)
Just another option to throw out there now that i think of it, philly: I recently tried a fender vibro/super champ (whichever was the 5 watt one, i can't remember which is which). It's all-tube, but contains modelling too (and i was actually surprised by how nice the modelling was, for stuff up to and including classic rock, anyway). If he could get a deal on one (i think RRP is £199, but i'm not certain on that), it might be worth a look too. I thought its modelling was pretty good for the more vintage stuff, and you also have the advantage of tubes. again, though, no idea about the headphone socket... :lol:
-
The Super Champ XD is better than the Vox AD30VT and miles better than the Cube 30.
It doesn't have a headphone socket though.
-
I was reading up on the Vibro Champ XD and Super Champ XD last night - I personally really like the look of them but they're both around the £200 mark which is probably a bit too much. And the lack of headphone sockets is probably a deal-breaker. The G-DEC Junior remains a possibilty though.
Shame about the build quality of the Voxes, otherwise I think they'd be the clear winners. :(
:idea: I notice no-one has mentioned the Line 6 Spider range. No love for them? :lol:
-
:idea: I notice no-one has mentioned the Line 6 Spider range. No love for them? :lol:
I had a Spider II and it was awful in every respect (the insane setting provided some fun I suppose). The clean was clean but no dynamics, the crunch didn't crunch. After that I have kept away from Line 6 altogether.
They may be better now but I can't be bothered to find out.
The little Fender Champs are excellent, and the regular GDec is great fun (I imagine that the Jr version is pretty decent too).
Having playwed with the Vox & Cube models in the local guitar shop I would head towards the Vox (I prefer the Vox onboard effects which nobody has mentioned yet)
As for build quality although the cube is a bit better, in reality whats he going to do with the Vox that may cause damage (throwing it at yowling cats on the garden wall) ?
The attenuation is pretty good on the Vox too, as a mate that runs a "music sanctuary" uses one and when the attendees are jamming it comes in useful.
-
I would stray from Line 6 amps. They are less than stellar amps to say the least, at least the ones in that price range.
The Fender Super and Vibro Champ are really good, but if they are too expensive than......
It would be the Vox or the Roland. I have played the Vox and it does sound very good. Although, quality is a serious Vox issue.
The Roland is built to survive a nuclear holocaust. I don't think he would regret buying either one. It's not like if he buys the Vox he'll say "I wish I would have bought the Roland!" or the other way around.
They are both very good at what they do. The Vox may sound a little better, but the Roland may be built a little better.
And for the record, the Roland sounds fantastic for what it is! :lol:
-
:D OK, thanks very much guys, at the very least I have a shortlist:
Roland Cube 20X (Pros: build quality, compact size. Cons: Vox may sound better)
Roland Cube 30X (Pros and Cons as above. :?: Any real benefit of this over the 20X?)
Vox AD15VT (Pros: sound quality, a real valve (FWIW). Cons: build quality, compared with Cube)
Vox AD30VT (Pros: as above, plus variable output wattage! Cons: as above)
Fender G-DEC Junior (Pros: classic looks plus band-in-a-box! Cons: none that I know of)
With the Fender Vibro Champ XD and Super Champ XD as high-quality outside possibilities.
And I just thought of a non-digital-modelling option, I'd love one of these for myself: the Tech 21 Trademark 30.
-
^ i think the roland cube 30x has a lot more amp models than the 20 (if the 20 even has any). Considering the main boon of the cube is its amp models, if you ask me it doesn't make much sense to buy a cube without (or with very little) amp modelling. I tried the cube 15 (which has no amp modelling) a while back, and, to be frank, it was terrible.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=821&ParentId=57# (cube 20) "TYPE Switch (ACOUSTIC, OVERDRIVE, DISTORTION, METAL, METAL STACK, TUBE DRIVE), " (those aren't really amp models, they're more like stompbox models, from what i remember)
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=822&ParentId=57 (cube 30) "TYPE Switch (ACOUSTIC, BLACK PANEL, BRIT COMBO, TWEED, CLASSIC STACK, METAL STACK, R-FIER STACK, DYNA AMP), " (those are amp models)
EDIT: i'd say the pros of the cube are the high gain tones, and the cons are the non-high gain tones (though i can't comment on build quality or reliability as i've never owned one). i know (laugh if you like) us regulars over at UG generally recommend the cube as a starter amp if the starter plays metal, and the vox if he/she, er, doesn't. :lol: It's more or less as simple as that (though obviously take personal preference into account).
The Super Champ XD is better than the Vox AD30VT and miles better than the Cube 30.
It doesn't have a headphone socket though.
ah, dang, i told you i hadn't checked about the headphone socket!
I still think i'd prefer the cube for out-and-out metal, but for everything rock and lighter, the 5 watt fender (still unsure which model!) is miles better. It's modelling, but it actually sounds like a tube amp too. :)
-
Thanks for those specs, Dave! Of course I should've looked them up myself :oops: but I'm a bit overwhelmed by all this amp research. Even the Tiny Terror has almost too many knobs for me! :wink:
-
you need to get a valve junior. :lol:
no worries about the specs, i was looking them up myself too, i figured i'd need to just to make sure of them to after persuading every thread in sight over at UG to go for the cube 30 over the 20 because of the amp models... :oops: :lol:
-
Interesting how everyone seems to be suggesting that the Vox is better for the lighter stuff. On one of the jazz forums where I hang out the Roland Cubes (either 30 or 60) appear to be far and away the most popular choice for people who aren't intent on going down the valve route or spending a lot more cash. This goes as far as identifying some pretty big name jazz players who use the cubes live.
Of course, all of this relates to their clean tones rather than anything involving distortion but the comments on them are always extremely positive (about the valve modelled channels as well as the JC channel) and I don't remember hearing much/anything about the Vox. Not sure whether this means they find the Rolands better for (jazz) cleans or whether they're just not aware of the Vox though...
Mark
-
The modeler settings on the 30 are not far away better than the settings on the 20. They are actually pretty similar when compared side by side. I didn't feel like one was much better than the other. I chose the 20 because I didn't need the 10 extra watts, and the 30's modeling settings weren't so good that it justified me spending the extra cash.
The clean on the Roland is very good, especially when used with the reverb. It's based on the JC120, and while it is NOT the JC120, I find it very sufficient.
-
The Super Champ XD is better than the Vox AD30VT and miles better than the Cube 30.
It doesn't have a headphone socket though.
+ 1
-
For an absolute beginner I'd go for the DA5 based on this clip. The clean / crunch sounds are great. You can get them for £70.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE32cmJ401I
The vibro champ is great but it although it sounds great at lower volume to really sound it's best it needs cranking a little and obviously lacks the headphone socket. If anybody was thinking of going for the VCXD I'd advise to spend the extra on the SCXD for what it's worth anyway.
-
For an absolute beginner I'd go for the DA5 based on this clip. The clean / crunch sounds are great. You can get them for £70.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE32cmJ401I
That's one of the better demo videos I've seen, enjoyed the guy's playing.
Presumably the AD/Valvetronix range is a still a better bet than the DA range, if budget allows, since they have that magical(?) valve on board.
-
Just to complete the story, he decided to go for the Cube 30X. :)
-
Thanks for the update Philly, I hope he goes on to enjoy a lifetime of playing now he has 'caught the habit ' ... :D
-
excellent! now, if he doesn't like it in the future, we all remember that it was, er, sambo who recommended that one, right?
:twisted:
-
Cool, he should have a lot of fun with it. :D
-
I took the Edwards Potbelly in for him today, he was so excited it was like a little kid at Christmas (a 55-year old kid! :lol: )
By the end of the day he'd ordered the Cube 30X and some Cleartone cables.
Now maybe he'll get me a pay rise! :lol: