Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Ratrod on June 27, 2008, 07:20:14 PM

Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Ratrod on June 27, 2008, 07:20:14 PM
A nice question for the luthiers here.

Squier introduced a pine Telecaster this summer NAMM.

I'm interested but how is pine as a tone wood? What are it's characteristics?

Here's a link BTW: http://www.squierguitars.com/products/search.php?partno=0303025507
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Elliot on June 27, 2008, 09:21:41 PM
Apparently its like Alder, not as bright as ash but not as warm as basswood  - some early Broadcasters were made from it.

It might be agathis, howerver - that is from the pine family.  In any event those new Squiers are getting great reviews from the USA.
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on June 27, 2008, 10:20:36 PM
I have an Explorer made from Brazillian Parana Pine which is a variant of that species.

Some of you will have played it and know how great it sounds
Loaded with old spec Holy Divers (not unlike a ceramic Rebel Yell)
(http://www.felineguitars.com/spec_sheets/guitar_images/parana%20pine%20explorer/Parana-Explorer-horiz-500.jpg)
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Philly Q on June 27, 2008, 10:42:58 PM
Quote
Squier’s Classic Vibe Telecaster ’50s puts classic “blackguard” Telecaster vibe into a gorgeous Vintage Blonde-finished pine-body guitar—you’ll be hard-pressed to tell whether or not you are holding a premium ash-body instrument.

Maybe I'm being thick and missing something here, but isn't pine lightweight and extremely soft?  :?

The stuff I've used for building bookshelves takes a dent if you breathe on it too hard....
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: badgermark on June 27, 2008, 10:50:18 PM
Check out the TDPRI (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/) forums- a tele forum and they build loads of pine teles, they practically spuff over pine teles.
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: indysmith on June 27, 2008, 11:13:30 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
Quote
Squier’s Classic Vibe Telecaster ’50s puts classic “blackguard” Telecaster vibe into a gorgeous Vintage Blonde-finished pine-body guitar—you’ll be hard-pressed to tell whether or not you are holding a premium ash-body instrument.

Maybe I'm being thick and missing something here, but isn't pine lightweight and extremely soft?  :?

The stuff I've used for building bookshelves takes a dent if you breathe on it too hard....

Yeah I always thought pine was a softwood
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on June 27, 2008, 11:58:45 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Quote from: Philly Q
Quote
Squier’s Classic Vibe Telecaster ’50s puts classic “blackguard” Telecaster vibe into a gorgeous Vintage Blonde-finished pine-body guitar—you’ll be hard-pressed to tell whether or not you are holding a premium ash-body instrument.

Maybe I'm being thick and missing something here, but isn't pine lightweight and extremely soft?  :?

The stuff I've used for building bookshelves takes a dent if you breathe on it too hard....

Yeah I always thought pine was a softwood


Pine isnt that far removed from Spruce which is considered a great tonewood
Bob Benedetto built a fine jazz guitar out of construction grade pine and it sounded great .

Q: What's the difference between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist?

A: A rock guitarist gets to play three chords in front of thousands of people...
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: il˙ti on June 28, 2008, 12:02:11 AM
and a jazz guitarist gets to play thousands of chords in front of three people.

Good one.

..but also made me sad.
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: WezV on June 28, 2008, 01:16:04 AM
it really depends on the pine in question... i wouldnt be heading down to your local B&Q for tonewood

parker have been making fly's from spruce for quite a while... and obviously almost evey acoustic in existence has a spruce top. ( infact i worry about alll you peeps gassing after ibanezes acoustics with pretty hardwood tops, mahogany just about works but it really needs to be a softwood for an acoustic top)

spruce is a great tone wood, its a little soft to hold a screw well for an electric guitar bridge (see the yamaha RGX for a way round that) and it dents really easily... and dare i say... most people would find it too light as a solid body electric.... but it is a softwood..... so is redwood which is also used in guitars more and more  of late... both these woods make great electric guitars

douglas fir is another softwood which might work for electric guitars.. i know melvyn hisc--k (the writer of the bible) has been experimenting with it, even for necks

so pine,,, yeah, why the hell not... but it still has to have good grain structure to work with... i would be looking for at least 10-15 grain lines per inch rather than the 1-2 you see on the sponge you can buy from the average diy shop, and it would need to be really dry and stable (unlike teh sponge you buy from the diy shop).   antique pine can be great because it generaly comes from older trees which means straighter grain, less knots and its more likely to be dry... works better with lower powered pickups for something very acoustic sounding as well
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Will on June 28, 2008, 01:20:17 AM
Anyone remember the 13 string Superbass 'person' ?
that was neck through pine :P
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: WezV on June 28, 2008, 01:33:41 AM
yeah, necks and pine is a whole other issue


basically if you choose the right bit of wood there is no reason for it not to work but with pine you are fighting against the odds.... not a problem with bodies (right bit of wood)... a bit more thought needed with necks ( an exceptional piece of wood)
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: indysmith on June 28, 2008, 01:36:43 AM
Quote from: Will
Anyone remember the 13 string Superbass 'person' ?


That guy was HI LA RI OUS
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: gingataff on June 28, 2008, 04:47:01 AM
I'm sure I read something recently that Leo Fender used pine on his first guitars.
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Twinfan on June 28, 2008, 09:44:39 AM
Correct Ginga - the first Broadcasters were pine.  As were the Fender combo cabinets of the Tweed era.

[/TF geek off]
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: sgmypod on June 28, 2008, 09:49:42 AM
have a pine cab/combo and love it sounds great
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Elliot on June 28, 2008, 09:58:37 AM
The reports of the Squier VV Tele are that they are heavy, more so than most ash Baja's - 8.5-9kg as the Chinese pine used is very dense.  I can't wait to try one, as the US reviews put these and the other guitars in that range in the JV category.
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: badgermark on June 28, 2008, 10:56:50 AM
Behold! The Ikeacaster! (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/88241-ikeacaster-newbie-tele-copy-cheap.html)
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Ratrod on June 28, 2008, 11:21:53 AM
Based on what I'm reading I should try one out. I wonder how the "custom Alnico III" pickups are.

Could that little Squier be the deal of the decade?
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: gwEm on June 28, 2008, 11:42:33 AM
Quote from: FELINEGUITARS
Loaded with old spec Holy Divers (not unlike a ceramic Rebel Yell)


Slight hijack, but do you reckon these would work in that V I have of yours?

Explorer looks really nice! Do you still have it?

On topic: isn't pine the commonest wood in the world, I suppose poor quality stuff must be /really/ cheap, if thats what Squier wanted to use. I like the fun-ness of Squier guitars but they certainly have a really rustic feel to them, especially the necks. The idea of a pine Squier sets the alarms ringing.
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Philly Q on June 28, 2008, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: Elliot
The reports of the Squier VV Tele are that they are heavy, more so than most ash Baja's - 8.5-9kg as the Chinese pine used is very dense.  

I hope that's 8.5-9 pounds, Elliot.  If not we'll come and visit you in hospital after your hernia operation. :wink:
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: dave_mc on June 28, 2008, 01:49:12 PM
i guess i'll have to try one out. :)
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Elliot on June 28, 2008, 03:37:48 PM
yup pounds, not kilos - The softwood thing isn't a problem - Most JVs are basswood, which is also very soft, and they're still going.  if it has a modern (i.e. thick) poly finish it should hold together.  After all pine Broadcasters from 1950 are still around.
Title: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on June 28, 2008, 04:51:54 PM
Quote from: gwEm
Quote from: FELINEGUITARS
Loaded with old spec Holy Divers (not unlike a ceramic Rebel Yell)


Slight hijack, but do you reckon these would work in that V I have of yours?

Explorer looks really nice! Do you still have it?


Would sound pretty good I think

Yup - still got that Explorer
And got it on special price at the moment on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Feline-Guitars-Custom-Built-Parana-Explorer-Hetfield_W0QQitemZ220140236968QQihZ012QQcategoryZ2384QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
Title: Re: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Colin Johnston on July 12, 2008, 01:07:43 AM
I'm one of the guys from the TDPRI that assembled a pine Tele.  I love it!  Light-weight, resonant & great tone.  It's replaced my US '52 reissue as my favourite guitar.

The guys at the Tele board have been building pine Teles (like Leo's Broadcaster prototypes & full thickness) for a few years and it's reckoned that that's were Fender got the inspiration for the new Squier from.
Title: Re: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: WezV on July 12, 2008, 10:15:15 PM
i have nothing agaisnt pine as long as its chosen well... i am not saying leo spent ages chosing wood but he definately had better wood stocks to choose from.  we dont, you cant pop down to b&Q and find wood suitable for a guitar as most of that comes from fast grom stock that will twist in front of your eyes on a warm day.

not hard to find older pine though, loads of it gets thrown away every day.... i noticed a particulary nice source at my local crematorium but if i take that they will have no pews

on another note, melvyn hisc--k is apparently experimenting with douglas fir for a neck wood.. could be interesing.  personally i really like using redwood in a guitar and thats another softwood

 i feel all this softwood talk is useless to the metal players on the board.. it generally means a more resonant, acousticy tone from a guitar
Title: Re: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Elliot on July 13, 2008, 12:14:26 AM
Do metal people (or should that be METAL as most people seem to think they have to capitalise the word, talk about inferiority complex!) play telecasters?  Is this discussion for them?  Non Metal is good too, you know.
Title: Re: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Philly Q on July 13, 2008, 12:19:08 AM
I'm a metal(ish, in an old-school sort of way) person, and I play Telecasters.  Amongst other things.  All equally badly.
Title: Re: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: WezV on July 13, 2008, 09:42:21 AM
i was just making a point that its not a sound for everyone

i cant beleive the forum censored melvyn's last name :lol:
Title: Re: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: Philly Q on July 13, 2008, 09:53:25 AM
i cant beleive the forum censored melvyn's last name :lol:

Yeah, I'm sure we've mentioned him before.  Is this a new Big Brother style infringement of our personal freedom? :wink:
Title: Re: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: _tom_ on July 13, 2008, 11:26:49 AM
Anyone remember the 13 string Superbass 'person' ?
that was neck through pine :P

haha that guy had the worst accent/most annoying voice ever.
Title: Re: How is pine as a tone wood?
Post by: AndyR on July 13, 2008, 12:13:17 PM
Re: "metal" or "METAL" and teles...

Anyone remember Vardis?
I saw him in, say, 80, or 81. He was playing "metal" on a single-coil tele, through a wall of Marshalls in a three-piece - I seem to recall a very raunchy sound :)