Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Doadman on July 05, 2008, 02:20:00 AM
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As some of you will be aware, I've been toying with the idea of getting a valve amp for a while but it wasn't a pressing issue so I've taken my time. As I've now been offered a place in a band I really need to get this sorted out now and I've narrowed the field considerably. My own taste in music is Rock and Metal (A7X, Disturbed etc.) but the band I'm joining plays mostly 60s stuff so the amp needs to be very versatile. I also still need to play it in the home but it will now certainly be used for small gigs as well. In my own mind I have two possibilities:
1) Marshall DSL401 - Has a very good reputation and will go from clean to reasonably high gain, though I may still need a pedal to do really high gain.
2) Laney VC30 - Very well thought of, good price and should take pedals well. I figure the standard amp will do most of the stuff I play live well and for anything else it's a SD Twin Tube Mayhem.
It's proving very difficult to try them both within easy driving distance but doing my best. So, which do you think would suit best or is there an alternative you prefer?
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I don't know much about either of those amps, but I have heard that Marshall have been having build quality issues in recent months, which is enough to put me off a Marshall, unless you get a used unit.
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I should be able to test Nailbombs -> DistX -> VC30 1x12 on Monday if my guitar arrives. If you can hold out I'll give an opinion...
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Guess a Marshall is the best option, unless you have unlimited funds. Haven't played the 401 myself, but from the DSL100 I can say that that one is an amazing amp (if you can make it loud that is :O)
It will be rather difficult to find a cheap amp that makes both, 60s and metal convincingly, maybe something like a SPIDER Valve could pull it off though.
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It will be rather difficult to find a cheap amp that makes both, 60s and metal convincingly, maybe something like a SPIDER Valve could pull it off though.
+1
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A decent report back on a VC30 would be great, thanks.
Various people tell me that both Laney and Marshall have build quality problems but mostly this seems to be guys in stores and I guess they may have an agenda. One guy said that it would be best to get an amp with a great clean and use pedals from there so he would choose the VC30 as the tone is great and pedals will build from there. I confess that this makes a lot of sense.
Another store who sold both said that it was worth paying the extra for the Marshall as it could do a range of stuff except really high gain, in which case use a pedal. A versatile amp for the money I guess.
As for the Spider Valve, that's a really strange one. I've had opinions ranging from 'It's absolutely stunning with the most convincing modelling available for a very versatile amp' to 'It's massively over-rated and for that much money you'd be better with something else', namely a 'proper' valve amp and some decent pedals. My own concern with the Spider Valve is that I am pretty sure that the amp models on my GNX3000 are rather better so I could use that through the VC30 and get better results. However, I value your opinions so if you guys think it's worth a look then I will try it out.
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I use a Laney VC30 2 x 10 version. I have played through better amps for sure but for the money, I think it is a very good little amp.It has a good basic tone and is not too heavy to lug around and is easily loud enough for the gigs I play. I have to use effects as I am in a covers band and I have to get a lot of tones but given the choice I prefer to be effects free and so I have my effects on a loop so that I can take them out of the signal so that I can use the basic amp tone when we crank things up towards the end of the night ( as you do!) .I just use my Jekyll & Hyde pedal for a little bit of destortion if the volume is around 6. One thing I have found is that the amp does sound pretty good at home volumes and that is something I think is overlooked in VC's. It is my own view but for playing at home, I enjoy playing through it. As with all gear, there are the views that certain versions are better than other such as the VC's with H/H speakers are not as good as those with the Jensens. Mine has Jensens but as I haven't played any others I cant comment. I have heard of reliability issues for VC's .I have had to change pre amp valves but apart from that, mine has been reliable enough. I can't give you a comparison with the others that you have mentioned and would suggest trying them out though it is difficult in a shop environment as amps sound can vary depending upon the venue ( something that is often disregarded).
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Chance for me to advertise again!!
My Laney is still for sale if you're interested. I can send you pics etc.
The usual never gigged, smoke free home, mint....
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Second hand ENGL screamer, it can be found cheap, and its a brilliant amp.
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I also have a VC30 210 with Jensen speakers and agree with 38th's comments:- good basic tone, good at home volumes (clean anyway), easy to lug around and pretty reliable (this one has not been giged much but did loads of gigs with one I used to have 10 years or so ago with no probs). The only problem I have had was also a preamp valve.
The amp is kind of a mini AC30 but with it's own thing going on. Drive is vintage, blues to classic rock (think Free / ACDC levels of drive) but they do not have massive amounts of clean headroom.
For your needs I'd go for the 1x12. You can also get an inexpensive extension cab to make a mini stack.
No doubt the best amp for the money but if you spend more (probably at least double) then you might see an improvement. If you wanted to go to the next level then probably the Cornford Roadhouse 30 looks the ticket, the demo in Guitarist sounded Awesome.
Not sure about the DSL401 as I have not tried.
What about a Fender Blues deluxe and pedal?
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Second hand ENGL screamer, it can be found cheap, and its a brilliant amp.
+1. About as versatile as you will get for a £4/500 (second hand) valve amp.
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Guess a Marshall is the best option, unless you have unlimited funds. Haven't played the 401 myself, but from the DSL100 I can say that that one is an amazing amp (if you can make it loud that is :O)
i thought the head version was noticeably better than the 401. However, a lot of that is allegedly in the terrible speaker in the 401 (but obviously not owning one i can't corroborate that).
To me, the vc30 is the nicer amp, but possibly a bit less versatile than the marshall.
reliability, again having never owned one can't comment, but like you i have heard reports of failures in both of them.
Second hand ENGL screamer, it can be found cheap, and its a brilliant amp.
that would be an excellent choice if one can be found cheap enough (and also if thedoadman likes its tone!). :)
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Have a look for a Laney VC50(It's a 2x12 combo version of the VH100R head, currently discontinued) on ebay, I think the VC30 might be a little to vintage for your metal needs.
You can pick up a VC50 for about £300.
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'Nuther vote for the screamer.
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+1 on the screamer. I would try a spider valve out tho if you can, its very much a marmite type amp you either like it or you dont. They go relativly cheaply on ebay too. Also Line 6 amps are great for gigging with when you have the shortboard, being able to have loads of different tones ready to go.
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I play a VC-30 2x12 myself, and it'sa perfectly nice little amp, and as mentioned, it sounds very nice at domestic volume. While it's not overburdened with clean headroom, if you can keep it clean, it has a really, really tasty clean sound.
It does take pedals in front very well, but I'm dubious about the loop.
Finally, wound to the teeth, with a decent dirtbox, the VC does a decent enough metal lead sound, but it's never going to do much in the way of a scooped rhythm tone.
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The Engl Screamer looks gorgeous but I can only find one on Ebay and that has a starting price of £600; money I just don't have right now. I could get to £500 but for now, that's my limit.
I tried the Spider Valve and DSL401 today. I didn't have a lot of time to fully explore them but I did come to a couple of broad conclusions.
The Spider Valve is hugely versatile and I really can't think of anything that would come close to it in that regard. Some patches were really very good indeed, but they tended to be towards the really high gain end of the spectrum where possibly genuine valve tone doesn't count for as much. Other patches sounded a bit more digital in nature and it felt a little like listening to my GNX3000. In many ways it is an ideal option for me as it means I can play anything but too much of it just wasn't 'special'. It's also the most expensive of the amps I'm looking at and realistically, is of limited use unless you get the floorboard to go with it; another £80. Tempting as it may be, I don't think it's the one for me. I think I'd rather have an amp that has a few good sounds and just play songs with those, regardless of what the original is like. Thinking about it, I do that to a degree now as I only really use a handful of the patches on my Digitech.
The Marshall DSL401 was a really nice amp. The clean channel didn't quite have the depth of richness I might have liked but it was certainly serviceable and some tweaking with equaliser settings may have helped a little. The first overdrive channel delivered a good tone that reminded me of many of the bands of my youth and the second overdrive channel was able to use far more gain than I had expected. OK, it doesn't quite get to the very high gain levels of some modern bands but there are a couple of ways I could help that along. My original idea was to use a Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Mayhem on the clean channel but having tried the amp, another route may be to use a Tube Screamer to just give the drive channel that little extra.
I'd still like to try the VC30, though that would certainly need pedals to give me the levels of gain I'm after and while I'm on, I'd like to give the DSL a second try when I'm not quite so pressed for time.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laney-VC50-2x12-Valve-Guitar-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ220250436847QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220250436847&_trkparms=72%3A638|39%3A1|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
40 minutes left
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I'm afraid by the time I noticed your post the sale had ended on the Laney but it did start me wondering if there were some good second hand buys to be had. As a result, this morning I started looking on ebay for a Marshall DSL401 and found a very interesting option. It is apparently only a year old, has had a speaker upgrade to a Celestion G12T-75 and when it was serviced recently all the valves were replaced by a set of JJ Tesla units. The seller tells me that the result of these modifications is a bit more bottom end, better definition and more overall clarity. The amp is described as mint condition having never been gigged at all. A new DSL401 would set me back £450 and this one was only £280. That seems to me to be a very decent buy so that's what I did and I'll pick it up on Saturday. I'll post a review when I've had a chance to play with it.
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Sounds Like a reasonable deal, Let us know how it sounds.
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really high gain end of the spectrum where possibly genuine valve tone doesn't count for as much.
SAY WHAT NOW?
:shock: :shock:
:trans: :snipe: :rock: :rip: :plasma:
( :P )
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I got my Screamer for exactly £500 with pedal and an amp cover... Perfect nick too.
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Guess a Marshall is the best option, unless you have unlimited funds. Haven't played the 401 myself, but from the DSL100 I can say that that one is an amazing amp (if you can make it loud that is :O)
i thought the head version was noticeably better than the 401. However, a lot of that is allegedly in the terrible speaker in the 401 (but obviously not owning one i can't corroborate that).
To me, the vc30 is the nicer amp, but possibly a bit less versatile than the marshall.
reliability, again having never owned one can't comment, but like you i have heard reports of failures in both of them.
Second hand ENGL screamer, it can be found cheap, and its a brilliant amp.
that would be an excellent choice if one can be found cheap enough (and also if thedoadman likes its tone!). :)
It is down to the speaker in the 401, it really is a terrible piece of ****.
I had mine replaced with a celestion greenback, and all of a sudden it actually sounded like a guitar amp, instead of sounding like some overpriced hi-fi setup, like it did when i first got it.
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I got my Screamer for exactly £500 with pedal and an amp cover... Perfect nick too.
I recently sold one in perfect condition and freshly valved with JJ's for £400, with cover (albeit a carlsbro, but it fit perfectly!) and no pedal (needed it for my powerball)
But that was to a mate. I doubt that sort of price happens every day
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I got my Screamer for exactly £500 with pedal and an amp cover... Perfect nick too.
I recently sold one in perfect condition and freshly valved with JJ's for £400, with cover (albeit a carlsbro, but it fit perfectly!) and no pedal (needed it for my powerball)
But that was to a mate. I doubt that sort of price happens every day
Sold mine on ebay and only got £400 for it too. Was quite annoyed at the time, but needed the cash really.
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Unlucky guys...
£400 is a STEAL for such a brilliant amp..
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Unlucky guys...
£400 is a STEAL for such a brilliant amp..
Said that to the guy that bought it. His reply was "Well it's worth what someone will pay for it"...
A right smarmy bar-steward. :lol: :lol:
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he's right though. that being said, £400 does sound like a good price if you can get one for that- especially if that's with the footswitch. :)
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he's right though.
Shhh! :wink: