Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Players => Topic started by: ericsabbath on July 10, 2008, 09:38:36 AM
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my bandmate bought my ex-miracle man set and recorded one of our band's songs
i think he used wagner sharp and impulses cab (direct recording softwares)
the guitar is an A.R. Costa in mahogany (this one http://www.arcostaguitars.net/guitarras/tyr_130905ce.htm (http://www.arcostaguitars.net/guitarras/tyr_130905ce.htm))
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Sweet! I like the chugging at like 1:30 or thereabouts, really tight. Solos were awesome :).
Nice clip, tone and playing. Great stuff!
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Niiiceeeee :D
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Too compressed and Gothenburgy for my tastes :?
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Riffs are great. Really heavy and groovy too. The sound is much too sterile/compressed to my tastes, but I guess that's the direct-software for ya.
(Pleeeeeeaaaaaaaase don't ruin this by adding screamo hardcore vocals)
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(Pleeeeeeaaaaaaaase don't ruin this by adding screamo hardcore vocals)
Yes. Because not only will it be Gothenburgy, but then it will be queer as shite just like the numerous metalcore and popcore bands that plague our sad sad era.
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thanks for the comments, guys! :D
yeah, it sounds compressed cause it's all amp simulation and drum sampling, except the wah on the solos
we hate screamo vocals lol
our ex-singer did some kind of helloween/savatage vocals, but he sucked pretty bad
we were trying to put some pantera style vocals, but our actual singer couldn't handle it well, cause he's completely tone deaf
he does the growly screaming parts well, but he screws up all the melodies and can't even understand when we argue about tonal scale :lol:
maybe we'll call a girl that does great angela gossow style vocals, but our priority is to find someone who can do aggressivity through melody, cause we play a lot of pantera covers
my other band's singer can do Pantera impressively well and he was backing us up, but he's not available to join another band (you guys can hear him on: http://www.myspace.com/reflectionsbleed (http://www.myspace.com/reflectionsbleed) and http://www.myspace.com/cobalto (http://www.myspace.com/cobalto))
my bandmate that recorded the song clip has built a great amp based on engl amps
i'll ask him to record some clips with the new pickups
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People allways go on about how many metalcore bands there are out there... I swear there's not as many as people think... There're More random talentless death metal bands imo.
Maybe I just spend too long listening to decent music, or I don't know what metalcore actually is :s
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or I don't know what metalcore actually is :s
Bands trying to be Pantera. That end up sounding even worse.
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Lol, I agree with you there, Pantera was good, but often the music that they inspired is appalling IMO.
Was talking to a mate about the Texas Hippy Coalition or something today along the same lines
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or I don't know what metalcore actually is :s
Bands trying to be Pantera. That end up sounding even worse.
what the hell
metalcore bands are influenced by hardcore and scandinavian metal and there's a new trend trying to do death splatter
most of them don't even hear "real" metal, but only other metalcore and screamo bands
absolutely nothing to do with Pantera, except some specific cases, like Throwdown (and I can't even remember any other band)
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or I don't know what metalcore actually is :s
Bands trying to be Pantera. That end up sounding even worse.
Any band that tries to sound like Pantera automatically gets a -2 because Pantera by default gets a -1.
EDIT: though i am not entirely sure that Pantera have that much to do with the Metalcore phenomenon.
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Thought the tone was a bit processed sounding but not too bad, works for this kind of music. Loved the riffs, the chuggy one at 1:30 was great and the bit after that was really lamb of god-ish.
Any band that tries to sound like Pantera automatically gets a -2 because Pantera by default gets a -1.
:o I dont think I can take your opinion seriously any more :P Pantera were one of the best metal bands ever. No one is as heavy as Phil Anselmo on vocals!
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Too compressed and Gothenburgy for my tastes :?
What is "gothenburgy"??
:?
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Too compressed and Gothenburgy for my tastes :?
What is "gothenburgy"??
:?
Music that sounds like Gothenerg metal - In Flames/At The Gates/Dark Tranquility.
And whats wrong with being a mix of metal and hardcore anyway? I know some brilliant bands that do it very succesfully.
Checking Last FM I see that Norma Jean, Ion Dissonance and Between the Buried and Me are listed as metalcore - All superb bands.
What I've got from this thread is that all "metalcore" is meant to be bad?
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Great clip, I think the moniker "Hellstyle" works well for you!
As for the link between Pantera and metalcore... what? Metalcore in the sense that I think of it takes almost no influence from Pantera. The metalcore I've heard sounds like a cross between the hardcore bands of the early 90s and the nu-metal bands of the late 90s.
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I'd like to add that my first comment was tongue in cheek. And there are metalcore bands that take heavy influence from Pantera. Trivium, Avenged Sevenfold, Bullet for my Valentine, All That Remains, Atreyu... (you know, the cr@p Metal Hammer writes about ;) ) it all sounds a lot like Pantera to me, but I realize that's a subjective thing.
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vERY gOOD rIFFAGE.
But its really nut my cup of tea. i mean, the voice of the miracle man. q:p
i only enjoy its tight bass, but i still preffer the Nailbomb.
q:p
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Great clip, I think the moniker "Hellstyle" works well for you!
As for the link between Pantera and metalcore... what? Metalcore in the sense that I think of it takes almost no influence from Pantera. The metalcore I've heard sounds like a cross between the hardcore bands of the early 90s and the nu-metal bands of the late 90s.
thanks, man!
Hellstyle was the name of a Pantera cover project I had
this band is called Reptile :lol: :lol: :lol:
my bandmate composed this whole song and he didn't even knew metalcore when he wrote it
he was mostly into Nevermore, Iced Earth, Black Label Society, Pantera, Dream Theater, Tool, AC/DC, Judas Priest
we listen to almost every kind of rock and metal, except emo, brit pop, screamo, mtv pop rock shite and black metal (i hate melodic metal too, but he used to listen it a lot) :lol:
our songs aren't intended o sound like anybody, but it happens naturally, as we listen to a lot of stuff (like any band)
and that's why we want a singer that can at least follow the melodies, instead of the usual toneless screaming, not because we want to sound like Pantera
but we don't have much choices here :(
I'd like to add that my first comment was tongue in cheek. And there are metalcore bands that take heavy influence from Pantera. Trivium, Avenged Sevenfold, Bullet for my Valentine, All That Remains, Atreyu... (you know, the cr@p Metal Hammer writes about ;) ) it all sounds a lot like Pantera to me, but I realize that's a subjective thing.
I'm influenced by Angus Young and I don't sound anything like him
I really can't hear Pantera in any of these bands
I like some Trivium stuff and a bit of All That Remains, but they sound nothing like Pantera either
the other bands are emos trying to look metal, they shouldn't even be compared
I don't even know if I'd call any of these of metalcore
my idea of metalcore is old Heaven Shall Burn (that's still boring to my ears)
most new bands don't even have any metalcore DNA, cause they don't even listen to hardcore or metal to sound like real metalcore
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quality riffs there mate!
bit of in flames/avenged sevenfold if u ask me :lol:
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Any band that tries to sound like Pantera automatically gets a -2 because Pantera by default gets a -1.
:o I dont think I can take your opinion seriously any more :P Pantera were one of the best metal bands ever. No one is as heavy as Phil Anselmo on vocals!
I can't take anybody's opinion seriously that believes there is "No one as heavy as Phil Anselmo on vocals." Or that "Pantera were one of the best metal bands ever." Truth be told that comment was meant a bit facetiously, but only with the most serious backing in beliefs that "Pantera are one of the most mediocre metal bands ever." :wink:
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I am not going to take this far because the last time i entered into a metal debate here it ended in flames (i assure you, no pun intended). But i will shortly address the following. This is not the forum for metal debates, especially given the genial attitude of everyone here. However, a portion of members in this place, like most paces on the internet and off, cannot see the boundaries between what metal is and isn't. I am not going to go on an uptight rant as i used to, i am just stating facts. I am probably going to get bashed for doing this, but i feel strongly about it so i am going to do it anyway. I don't want to derail the post, and i am really trying to be very civil. :)
And whats wrong with being a mix of metal and hardcore anyway? I know some brilliant bands that do it very succesfully.
Checking Last FM I see that Norma Jean, Ion Dissonance and Between the Buried and Me are listed as metalcore - All superb bands.
What I've got from this thread is that all "metalcore" is meant to be bad?
Consequently the only band that is metalcore on that list is Between the Buried and Me, and they are also the only band that has any basis for being metal in that list too. Norma Jean never has been, or was, Metal. Ion Dissonance has descended from a newer trend of the Lamb of God and Meshuggah traditions (and yes Ion Dissonance is closely related to the Metal band Despised Icon, but that means very little to their actual attributes as metal). Ion Dissonance is not Metal, and yes i do agree that they are good, interesting, and possess brilliant musicianship. But let me just point this out. Downtuned guitars, double bass, and blistering speeds does not make something metal. What makes something metal are the riffs. Newer Meshuggah can not even really be classified as Metal either, anything from "Nothing" and after just does not possess any Metal attributes. It doesn't stop me from loving Meshuggah, but just because it is heavy as fvck and fast does not make it metal. "Destroy, Erase, Improve," while a $%&#ing awesome album, only just fit the bill. That doesn't make it any less cool. However, there are so many bands that are considered metal that just aren't. It is a problem with the modern perception of what metal is, much skewed by heavier and heavier sounds immediately being attributed to and as metal. And the unfortunate truth is that so many people misuse the term to refer to things that have nothing to do with the genre. Sure, they may get some, or even a lot of influences from Metal bands, but it does not make them metal. For instance, the common misconception is that Nu-Metal bands are actually Metal, which is entirely untrue. And some people "in the know," so to speak, find it a vile association. The "Nu" classifier is synonymous with "false" or "pseudo." And just because a band classifies themselves as something means absolutely nothing as to what they actually are in reality. A clear cut example would be Bullet for My Valentine or HIM; the former claims to be Thrash, and devout Thrashheads piss on their name for two reasons: because they suck, and because they suck and claim to be pure breed Thrash when clearly they are morons and not even Metal at all. And HIM... well, i really hope i don't have to explain that one.
The whole Gothenburg thing has become an unwelcome cliche, but i will not go into that because too many people swoon over that stuff here, which is fine. I used to, but i got over it.
As for mixing Metal with hardcore, that is a difficult issue. The lines have become so blurred now it is hard to make any real distinction without a certain amount of discrimination. Old school crossover shite like SOD, Discharge, Amebix, D.R.I., Cryptic Slaughter, Cro-Mags, etc. all had a huge influence on trash and metal in general. However, the big difference between these bands and the hardcore/punk scene, is that they were highly apocalyptic and anti-humanist in ideology, or in the case of SOD and DRI specifically, contained high ironic values (later Power Violence would top these bands in extremity, but this is another story). Not only was their music a prefiguration of much Speed and Thrash, as well as later Grindcore, but their ideology was of high "metal" values. They were doing something that the other hardcore, crust, and punk bands weren't; because those bands were, at the time, much more humanist (among other things) in nature. Now the immediate conflict of mixing more modern, high intensity Metal with ideologies that are, for the most part, rife with anti-humanism, individualism, hate, hopelessness, death, rebellion on apocalyptic levels, etc. (and yes i know there are a fair share that are not, we must exclude most Speed and a lot of Power Metal) with Harcore is that the ideological bounds clash and weaken Metal's steadfast determination for individuality and freedom of mind. To have them together weakens whatever Metal attributes formerly stimulated the band, a band that is now weakened by association with the worker and all the other punk/hardcore values. Now many may say, "whatever," but it is nonetheless relevant, especially to those who care about what it means to "be metal." Furthermore, on a less ideological point - less to do with mixing, and more to do with the music - the general practice music in Metalcore, and its closely associated acts, has a real blandness in sound, and a general lack of ingenuity. Some bands escape this plague, but many don't and fail to recognize that their music, unlike so much of the great Metal produced, is not timeless and holds no real unique value chiefly because they use and reuse each others' cliched riffs. I could go on about this, but i have probably overstayed my welcome on this subject.
Trivium, Avenged Sevenfold, Bullet for my Valentine, All That Remains, Atreyu...
Despite my opinion that all of those bands are total shite, except for some 3 or 4 second intervals of ATR, only two of those bands have any basis for being metal: Trivium and ATR. And Trivium loosely fits the bill.
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opprobrium... excuse my unmetally sentimentality, but have I told you lately that I love you?
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I've never seen something so pathetic.
Opprob - When you've given me evidence that you have the right to decide what is and isn't metal - I'll start listening to your ridiculous rants on genres.
Genres are only meant to be ULTRA loose groupings, to help describe music - If everyone stuck to your spec every metal band on the planet would sound like Saxon.
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norma jean, mullets for my valentine, avengayd sevenfail and whatever are terrible bands, but they still don't sound as bad as 95% of black metal bands :lol:
true heavy metal was old black sabbath
no one else can claim to be more metal and dictate who is or not
why can't people just say "I like it" or "I don't like it" instead "oh that's not enough metal for me"
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I've never seen something so pathetic.
Opprob - When you've given me evidence that you have the right to decide what is and isn't metal - I'll start listening to your ridiculous rants on genres.
Genres are only meant to be ULTRA loose groupings, to help describe music - If everyone stuck to your spec every metal band on the planet would sound like Saxon.
I knew i would be bashed by you. I never said i have the right to decide anything, nowhere in that whole thing did i say anything of the sort. I merely stated the general misconceptions about what is an isn't metal. And, what it is an isn't in general. I didn't make the genre distinctions, over time i have just learned what they are. If you want to check, check with the gurus over at Metal Archives. Many of the deciding members over there command far more authority and knowledge on the matter than i can claim to have. By the way, i hate Saxon.
And as for you ilyti, i have been waiting to hear that from you since the day i got on the board. :wink:
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Sorry opp, but that was just so much subjective nonsense. Meshuggah not metal?
You have a very, very narrow view of what can and cant be metal.
Eric, the clip was good - nicely recorded and played, but a little thin for my tastes, and its not really my kind of metal
Therefore it isnt metal!!
;)
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norma jean, mullets for my valentine, avengayd sevenfail and whatever are terrible bands, but they still don't sound as bad as 95% of black metal bands :lol:
true heavy metal was old black sabbath
no one else can claim to be more metal and dictate who is or not
why can't people just say "I like it" or "I don't like it" instead "oh that's not enough metal for me"
While it seems our hearing is pretty much reversed for pickups, on this we are in total agreement.
Though, ironically enough, when a music journalist asked Iommi what he thougt of 'heavy metal', back when it was brand spanking new, he had no idea what they were talking about!
They just did what they did. It got named and pigeon-holed into a genre (albeit a completely new genre) later.
I personally rather intensly dislike the endless sub-classification of musics. Who gives a flying $%&# what to call it? LISTEN to it. Its all in the genre of "Music", and some people really need a headarse-ectomy. (no offence intended to anyone here: its meant as a general statement for anyone that will sit around debating whether somethings metalcore or death core or technical death or brutal death, or post metal or progressive or atmospheric metal or blah blah $%&#ing blah. I hate that cr@p. its music. Case. $%&#ing. Closed).
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Pardon me being a bit older but I can hear bits in there from my youth (and theyre crying out for the twin lead guitars of Thin Lizzy & Whishbone Ash). Though I have to say that post 02:00 the whole thing left me a bit cold (cos it's not my bag baby ;) ), but I whish I could play as well.
Processed tones yeah but I am assuming it's not finished yet so it dosn't matter much.
As for the genre discussion, I can't help feeling that it's part of the reason (along with cookie monster vocals) for rock & metals lack of popularity these days, people seem to be more interested in the label attached rather than the content.
As MDV says it's music, stop listening to music journalists & critics, and bands who wish to catagorised, theyre only trying to sell you stuff
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100% agree MDV.
Just listen to the music.
If you like it - Great.
If you don't like it - Then $%&# off and listen to something else.
I wish people would stop trying to define music ARGH - No two pieces of music are the same - If these genre guardians had control there would be as many genres as there are songs. (Ironically, there pretty much are. Sigh).
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MDV: I agree completely with your views on genre classification, but I really don't think it has anything to do with what O9 was talking about. If you do have genre classifications, might aswell make them mean something. It also had nothing to do with whether O9 liked the bands or not.
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I was being fascitious with the comment about it not being my thing.
My general point to opp is that his definitions of what are and are not are representations of his own perspective only, and that is true the music world over - people key into different aspects of the music, it affects different people in different ways, and they interpret it differently according to whatever other musical exposure they've had and define it by reference to what they know.
That makes the entire exercise of genre analness subjective and largely pseudointellectual autoerotic pontification. The absolutes of this IS metal, this IS blues this IS bee-wop-felmenco-post-core-soul-metal that they try to set in stone and force others to categorise in arent absolutes in the slightest. They are nothing more than what they think it is.
Want proof?
Ask anyone that gives a different answer.
Why?
Because music is fundamentally subjective. Its an art form and an expression medium, not a science. Everyones answer is the right answer, because thats what it means to them.
The solution?
Stop worrying about naming stuff at all and just take any music as you find it and enjoy it for what you hear in it.
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I can't take anybody's opinion seriously that believes there is "No one as heavy as Phil Anselmo on vocals." Or that "Pantera were one of the best metal bands ever." Truth be told that comment was meant a bit facetiously, but only with the most serious backing in beliefs that "Pantera are one of the most mediocre metal bands ever." :wink:
You have lost a good chance of stay quiet on your own...
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Meshuggah not metal?
I had a hard time wrapping my mind around it at first too, but then i listened again and realized why it actually is the case. Admittedly, i do agree that Meshuggah and like bands are blurry borderline bands where any kind of distinction is all but worthless because, generally, they defy classification. Especially Meshuggah in this case, for giving them any genre label makes little sense because there either isn't one for them yet, or again, they just don't fit into any one category.
I never said a band is wrong for "not being Metal" or "Metal enough" or whatever. I just think it is helpful to be able to reference the different genres and sub-genres in terms of riff construction, drum construction, vocal style, lyrical/ideological bounds, and myriad other classifiers for the sake of specificity. Now, given that i am somewhat OCD to begin with, i suppose am prone to say that anyways.
As to your other points, i understand what you are saying, and yes, any artform affords a certain amount of subjectivity. But like ilyti says, the genre classifications are there, they deserve to have meaning. I personally like figuring out what something is based on what its origins are musically, what bands or sounds or genres influenced it, and how in the end these things effect the music enough to set it in a specific genre; and then, what that means for the genre. Because when talking about music i generally don't debate whether something is or isn't something, i want to talk about what it is based on where it came from, where its roots are, and what it meant/how it influenced others musically, ideologically, whathaveyou. Everything has origins in something, and i find that important, for the vitality of music is not just about the art itself, it is about the intentions of the art and that has very much to do with origins as well as the effects on other art around it.
Picasso and Georges Braque engineered Cubism - a new genre, if you will - but it had origins in something, that something being the meticulous study of form and geometry, and that origin therefore influenced the absolute intention of their works: to express and showcase a new study of form. It became a genre on its own through the ingenuity of the artists, but it was their artistic intention and interest in the origins of form that informed their masterpieces. Similarly, with music artistic intention and origins have much to do with what the outcome of the work is, but like Cubism, may be wholly disparate in actuality and (visually) audibly from any previous music form. Their work was influenced by one thing, but to the naked eye the previous origins may be blurred by the result. So, similarly, bands that love metal and are influenced highly by it, do not necessarily produce something of that genre; they produce something of their own artistic intention. If it doesn't fit within the boundaries of one type it is bound to fit in another, but it does not change their influence. However, the actual product may be very different from that which the artist originally intended, or it may stray from the genre parameters they hoped to achieve, but its a finished work.
I seriously doubt that Picasso and Braque associated working with cubes as an "ism" when they first started. It was probably more to the effect of "o, this is a cool idea." However, as time went on multiple people observed the properties and attributes of the art form and dubbed it accordingly; much like your Iommi example MDV. Then, everything falls in accordingly with a common origin, or it doesn't because its origins don't lie there. If someone started basing all form in paintings on and around the medium of circles exclusively, could it be said that they are a Cubist (we are talking very literally here)? Maybe, it certainly appears rather similar; but chances are they were influenced by Picasso or Braque and veered off in a different direction, creating something of a different genre. There are many variables here, and yes, some things really do defy classification. And yes, many don't. Doesn't make it good or bad, it just is.
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Opp,
The genre classifications stem from an interpretation of a vocal or influential listener, or a cultural convention.
For example - metal - "Sounds like heavy metal falling from the sky" - off hand quip by a journalist listening to led zepelin, who at the time believed they were a blues/rock band.
Rock n' roll - Named for a feeling of grooviness and wanting to dance that it inspired in many at the time.
Blues - named for feeling 'blue'. Psychocromatics is a very interesting field, but we all know that blue is a bit depressed.
Accepting these definitions is nothing more than accepting another persons attempt to subjectively understand the music and relate it to what they already know. You can do that retrospectively too - for example, I think Wagner and Bach are metal as $%&# ;)
Many are local cultural things, and I'm all for studying where the music comes from, and a loose connection with a group of people or location is a trend in music until recently (and the internet, amazon and so on).
However, the foundation of each and every genre name is itself named from a particular interpretation and particluar perspective. Very telling among these is "classical" - do you think mozart was called 'classical' when he was alive? Our differing perspective now changes its classification and genre. Classic rock once occupied the position of modern metal. Blues in the 30s and 40s, rock n' roll in the 50s and 60s and thrash in the 80s all had the same position and similar interpretation (the outlet music for the underdogs -blacks, teens and the working class, in order). You can make other connections and comparisons of this sort, of music as a cultural penomenon that make you question the validity of genre classification, and force you to ask rather what the music means to different people.
Additionally, any musical characteristic you can find in any genre (to just look at it as pure music, as I prefer to do anyway), you can also find exceptions to within the genre and you can find examples of outside the genre. Its interesting to look at the flow of musical ideas between subcultures and evolution of sounds over time, but trying to box them up and label them is futile. You realise this with meshuggah, but I think thats an extreme example. I think that every single song you have ever heard is part of a tapestry, spanning the globe and all history, of interconnections of musical ideas and styles, and that the weave is too complex, and interconnetions too common, especially now, to be able to name and accurately define each one. African drums circles are metal. Blues and jazz can rip and shred. Hip hop can have heavy guitars, and metal can have rapping and flemenco and thrash each make as much use of phrygian and you just end up going in circles trying to navigate the tapestry.
Noodle is right: if you look closely enough, every song has its own genre and 5000 year history.
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Cool clip, drums maybe a little loud to really hear the guitars completely but sounds great.
To the arguement going on about what is and what isn't metal:
Whoever said Despised Icon are metal and Ion Dissonance and Meshuggah arent? I don't understand your point view. You also haven't given Meshuggah a more suitable classification. Im not going to say Meshuggah sound like everything other metal band, but that is why they are a progressive metal band.
As for Despised Icon being metal they have large sections of songs which are completely influenced by hardcore and have "bree" vocals as well as other hardcore tendencies such as beatdowns etc. If someone said Despised Icon were metal thats fine, as long as they accept that Ion Dissonance and Meshuggah are also metal, albeit a different sub genre.
Would Sikth, Tool, Dream Theater, and Opeth not be considered metal?
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nice riff :) i like it :)
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Subjectively, I like it. Objectively, I don't really care. MDV's right. Music is music. Sound waves hit our eardrums and fire nerves. The same sound can have a different effect on different people. I find the tune to have great melody and harmony, and it reminds me of really good old thrash. I don't know what all this new stuff sounds like. Call me an old fart, but I prefer lyrics you can understand without a dog for an interpreter. Hetfield and Mustaine, Anthrax, Testament, and yes, Pantera etc. are ace. Just checked out Despised Icon, is this what they call Tantrum vocals? They should just leave them out coz the music rocks without it.
Anyway, great clip Eric, I want to hear more of the same, just get that good SINGER you're after and all will be complete.
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I don't understand why people argue so much about music styles and especially about this "metalcore" stuff.
If the music is good I don't care what the label is.
BTW I like the new Metallica AND I'm gonna get the new Trivium as well.
Anyway as a musician you should listen to all kind of music and be open for it, it widens your horizon. My 2c.
To the original poster: I really like that clip. I particular like that the guitars sound quite raw despite being a modeller.